Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

An open forum for all ex-BKs, BKs, PBKs, ex-PBKs, Vishnu Party and ALL other Splinter Groups to post their queries to, and debate with, any member of any group congenially.
Post Reply
User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 09 Apr 2008

ex-l wrote:
I would prefer, "this is my theory in full" with attached evidence and THEN see if anyone has any question to ask in return. If they do not ... bad luck. No kings here today.
Dear ex-l and pbk brothers,
I am presenting you my theory in a couple of Murli points below. If you can correctly interpret these points, then the whole puzzle would be solved and no further controversies would arise.

Murli point: "8-12-01. "Bap toh kissi ko dukh nahin dete. Bap toh sadaa sukh dete hai. Sukh denewale ka janam sthan bhi Bharat mein hai aur dukh denewale ka janam sthan bhi Bharat mein hai. Bharatwasi shiv-jayanti manate hai parantu samajte kuch bhi nahin."(meaning: The Father does not give sorrow to anybody. Father always gives happiness. One who gives sorrow is also born in Bharat and one who give happiness is also born in Bharat. Bharatwasis celebrate shiv-jayanti but do not understand its meaning.)
My interpretation: The above point clearly points out that there is only one body Bharat through' which both parts(of giving sorrow and happiness) will be played; there can be no further controversy on this; now who is Bharat is debatable, PBKs say Ram is Bharat and i feel that it is Krishna through Virendra Dev Dixit who is Bharat; so let us all submit Murli points which will prove who is Bharat, rather than just relying on advance teachings, and taking them for granted.)

Murli point 9-2-01 : " Ravan-rajya mein bhi capitol Delhi hai aur Ram-rajya mein bhi capitol Delhi hai"(meaning that " in Ravan-rajya Delhi is capitol, and in Ravan-rajya also Delhi is capitol.).
My interpretation: Again the above point clearly says that Delhi(capitol of Bharat) is the central point of Ram-rajya and Ravan-rajya; and Delhi is refered to as Bap ka dil and so chaitnya Delhi is no one but brahma-Krishna who is present in the same body of Virendra Dev Dixit at present and so Brahma is the capitol in brahma ki raat (Maya-Ravan ka rajya) and is capitol in brahma ka din(Ram-rajya)

Murli point 5-4-03: "Maya Ravan ne Bap se vimukh kiya hai. Jaise Baba karan-karavanhar hai vaise Maya bhi karan-karanvanhar hai. Bap hai karan-karavanhar sukh daata and Maya hai karan-karavanhar dukhdataa; Bap se vimukh karati hai." (meaning that Maya-Ravan misleads away from Father; just as Father is karan-karavanhar so Maya is also karan-karavanhar; Father is karan-karavanhar sukhdataa and Maya is karan-karavanhar dukhdataa and misleads away from Father.")
My interpretation: The above Murli point clearly refers Maya-Ravan as a soul who is playing the part of karan-karavanhar dukh-dataa who is mis-leading PBKs away from Rambap during brahma ki raat and when brahma ka din starts then Rambap will become karan-karavanhar sukh dataa.

If the above interpretations appear logical, then i can quote many more such points which will prove that the whole Sangamyugi drama is revolving around Krishna-Bharat-brahma only and we all fall when he falls and we all will rise when he rises(''Bharat gira toh sab gire, Bharat utaah toh sab utte''; meaning that when Bharat falls all PBKs fall and when Bharat rises then all PBKs will rise mumberwise)

I have been repeatedly saying my theory in a nutshell, that if one wants to understand the whole knowledge one has to understand the creator Ram who is 'saar' and his creation Krishna who is 'vistaar' and to understand that, you must have deep study of Murli points to prove the same; each Murli point discussion at the end will culminate in ''saar and vistaar'', so there is no point in cribbing that my interpretations are boring and repetitive and i have nothing new to say; Shiva repeated the same things in Murlis for 3 1/2 years and still no one has been able to understand them fully, and i will not get tired to say a million times, that Ramshivbaba is creator, director, hero actor and Krishna(prajapita brahma) becomes his baccha, banni, through whom Ramshivbaba will create only 108 beads of rudramala.(as per the research of Murli points)

If you feel that my interpretations are non-sense and you are tired of listening to them you can please ignore them and let others, who are interested in knowing the Murli points, read them; instead of spreading hostility, let us agree to dis-agree and i will not respond to your queries as my answer would already known to you and you will also ignore my posts and not answer to them since i am talking all nonsense; meanwhile i will keep quoting important Murli points(as these are not available to all) and give my interpretation, as i feel that even if one waris soul gets the true introduction of Father Ramshivbaba, then my stay on the forum would be not wasted.

shivsena.

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by bansy » 09 Apr 2008

my stay on the forum would be not wasted.
There should be no such thoughts.

Any soul should never feel their time or purpose is wasted, whatever the outcome of their actions, in whatever they do and in whatever environment they are in.

Souls should be willing to give whatever they can without recourse and not assume or take results or have expectations of others, as even if the walls are built around them, they are only temporary.

Anyone trying to find their relationship with God (whatever representation as suited to one's intellect) is surely not wasting anyone's time nor their own time. Whose children are we ?

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Apr 2008

shivsena wrote:If you feel that my interpretations are non-sense and you are tired of listening to them you can please ignore them and let others, who are interested in knowing the Murli points, read them; instead of spreading hostility
No, I have not said they are nonsense. I have said outright that there is logic and reason to them although I am incapable of following it right the way through to the same conclusions.

What I am asking you is to do the decent and reasonable thing ... work first to lay down the foundations of a fair and just "kingdom" - by putting the Murlis in full, online, where all can find them, download, print them off and circulate them - and THEN seek your kings.

Don't talk above our heads or hold back ... with a quote here and a quote there ... feed us ... give us the tools to feed ourselves. As an academic, can you not appreciate how frustrating that would be for someone to play hide and seek with the only primary source of information?

andrey
PBK
Posts: 1288
Joined: 13 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by andrey » 09 Apr 2008

I heard Baba (in Virendra Dev Dixit) to say that both Krishna and Ram are inlcuded in Bharat. I was thinking that maybe it is because it is the path of household.

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 09 Apr 2008

bansy wrote: There should be no such thoughts.
Dear bansy Bhai.
What i wanted to write was that even if one soul gets the ture introduction of Father Ramshivbaba , then my stay on the forum would be worth it; it was one of those moments where there was dissociation in what i was thinking and what i was typing.
Yes i agree with you ; there is nothing like a waste of time in Sangamyug; you always keep learning new things and becomes wiser each day.
shivsena.

User avatar
bansy
Posts: 1643
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by bansy » 09 Apr 2008

Dear shivsena Bhai

Thanks for the reply. My post was not really directed to you but as a general one (hence I did not place your name within the quotes). One of the facets of this spiritual journey is it never ends until "the fat lady sings" i.e. when time finally arrives for all of us ; there may be pauses, ups and downs, and whilst there is always new things to learn, actually there really is nothing new, it's simply a rediscovery of something each of us have lost and finding it back again.

Thus I never think there is a need for me to feel whether one soul or a hundred souls understand my path to God. I know that each soul has their path to God which is their unique relationship. There maybe only a few souls who become almost equal God, but none can be exactly like Him, and so none will think the same alike. Thus I seek no affirmation from others in my own quest for the truth, however I also respect and admire the learning of others and their searches as we all share the universal path to one God. For whatever qualities God has, He has given to all of us.

(I use the generic term "God" as there seems to be a few differences in the interpretations in this forum, just to avoid further debate).

Have a nice day.

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 09 Apr 2008

ex-l wrote: I would prefer, "this is my theory in full" with attached evidence and THEN see if anyone has any question to ask in return. If they do not ... bad luck. No kings here today.
Dear ex-l.

Since you have asked about my theory and i have already described that in a nutshell, i feel that it is equally important for you and everyone to know what started it and how i came to the conclusion, that ''Ramshivbaba will be God and Krishna (prajapita brahma) will be his creation'' through the same body of Virendra Dev Dixit in future.

I have not come to that conclusion overnight and it took me a lot of years of reading and churning the Murlis and Vanis from 2000 to 2005, to come to a decision and challenge the advance knowledge as jhooti Gita given by Krishna (brahma) during the shooting period of brahma ki raat. i am not a fool to take such a decision overnight and challenge the very Chariot which is going to reveal God Ramshivbaba in the end. i thought about it hundreds of times and finally when i read that ''satyata ko nidarta se kaho" (do not be afraid to speak what you think is true), then i decided that i will have to be fearless to speak what i think is true and since then i have been expressing my views to PBKs and on forums.

The first seed of doubt was sown in 1997, when there was a split in the Advance Party and Baba was sent to jail and Mama went underground. That was the first time I realised that something was fishy (God being beaten and put in jail); I could not sleep that night and for many nights after that and i talked to sisters and they said this is all pariksha (like the bk sisters), a test of faith. Since i did not have any answers at that time i came back to mumbai and became busy with my work. Then after 4 months, when Baba was out of jail i went to meet him and asked him, whose karma was it, that Baba suffered in jail; and the answer i got was ''suli se kanta ho gaya'' (meaning that ''from cross it became a thorn''); this answer kept me wondering as to why God does not answer specifically and why in riddles. Again i accepted that God would have his own way to deal with children and at the right time we will know everything.

Then for 3 years i kept myself busy with internet service of advance knowledge (which i had put up with his permission) and never had any doubt about ShivBaba giving advance knowledge. Then in 2000, I wrote to baba about 10 queries which were disturbing me and i wanted the answers to it. When i got the answers from Baba i beat my head and then for the first time I realised that these answers are definitely not from ShivBaba. i showed these answers to many PBKs and most of them were of the same opinion that the answers are ambiguous. One of my pbk friend just told me casually that Krishna may be interfering and so the answers seemed ambigious.

This whole thing turned me towards the study of Murlis, as i was convinced that now Baba was not going to give all answers and we have to churn the knowledge ourselves to be numberwise to be master Gyan-sagar. So from that day, it was churning the Murlis and Vanis whenever i got time and it took me 5 years of intense churning of Murli points (which i have already discussed on the forum) to come to the conclusion that Krishna is not interfering but it is Krishna(Bharat) who has invented the advance knowledge (jhooti Gita) to take all PBKs for a ride in brahma ki raat, to see who reads and churns the Murlis by himself (jo otte so arjun) and who finds out the final truth(practical form of God ie. Ramshivbaba) of this behad ka Sangamyugi drama.

shivsena.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Apr 2008

Thank you. I think that is most helpful. But I think we have to join with others where they are at ... slaves to the BKs or even PBKs ... give them free access to what they are holding on to ... the Murlis ... and then walk them step by step out of the desert (to use a religious metaphor).

That is why I say, even on some other website, publish the entire collection of the Murlis. Put it in a searchable database. The faithful will come like bees to honey and then be able to start working it out for themselves. Some will print them out and pass them around to others that have not. CDs can be made.

Apply karma ... give and the goodwill will return.

User avatar
joel
ex-BK
Posts: 440
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I was an active BK for 12 years. That was long ago. Now I am just a person.

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by joel » 10 Apr 2008

ex-l wrote:Thank you. I think that is most helpful. But I think we have to join with others where they are at ... slaves to the BKs or even PBKs ... give them free access to what they are holding on to ... the Murlis ... and then walk them step by step out of the desert (to use a religious metaphor) ...
Murlis can only be understood in a live class in shoddy centers with manipulative women wearing white saris collecting money to send home to India. Ugh! That sounds right bigoted and anti BK. And hateful. Does that mean I am still angry about something? I found a lot of people to like among the BKs that I left with the BKs when I left. Many are there in SF and elsewhere that I could speak to any time. My own rosary of real-people BKs.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Apr 2008

That is a little out of context really and not what I am saying here. I am more pro-empowerment and independence than anti-the BKWS Kindergarten. And that means right across the spectrum into India. If God speaks, and it is all about the Murli, give it to the people.

Or ask your nice BK to do so out of the goodness of their hearts.

pbkindiana
PBK
Posts: 616
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by pbkindiana » 10 Apr 2008

shivsena wrote:So let us all submit Murli points which will prove who is Bharat, rather than just relying on advance teachings, and taking them for granted.
MU 12/1/75 -- "You can say that the whole story of Ramayana is applicable to Bharat."

MU 10/8/78 -- Bharat was 100% pure. Now the same Bharat was 100% impure as it has become tottered and degraded."

Om Shanti-- indie

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 10 Apr 2008

pbkindiana wrote:MU 12/1/75 -- "You can say that the whole story of Ramayana is applicable to Bharat."
This is the only Murli point which the PBKs have to prove that ''Ram is Bharat''; but this has been completely mis-interpreted as they apply this to the outside world Bhakti-marg scripture Ramayan; Shiva is talking about the behad ka Sangamyugi ramayan (story) which started in 1937 by brahma getting all the visions and establishing the Yagya and will culminate in the near future when Krishna-brahma becomes 100% sakaari(prajapita brahma) and Ram becomes 100% nirakari Ramshivbaba; this whole Sangamyugi ramayan is on Bharat-Krishna-creation(rachna ka adi-madhya-anth) and not Ramshivbaba who is rachieta-creator.
If you know the creation then the creator is known automatically.
MU 10/8/78 -- Bharat was 100% pure. Now the same Bharat was 100% impure as it has become tottered and degraded."
Om Shanti-- indie
who is this Bharat ?? when was he pure?? and when will he become 100% impure and degraded??

Is Shiva talking about the broad drama or behad ka drama; whenever Shiva talks about any Murli point, the intellect of BKs and PBKs goes to the past broad drama where no one knows who is Bharat; there was no Bharat(Ram as per the PBKs) when this Murli was spoken before 1969, so which Bharat is Shiva refering to???
shivsena.

pbkindiana
PBK
Posts: 616
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by pbkindiana » 10 Apr 2008

shivsena wrote:This is the only Murli point which the PBKs have to prove that ''Ram is Bharat''; but this has been completely mis-interpreted as they apply this to the outside world Bhakti-marg scripture Ramayan;
Dear brother,

If anything is applied in Bhakti-marg is because the events had taken place in Confluence Age. Also if there is no Confluence Age, then there is no Bhakti-marg. At least, there is a Murli point which proves that 'Ram is Bharat', but to-date you still haven't produce any Murli points that indicate 'Krishna is Bharat' or 'Krishna is Prajapita' "Ramshivbaba is the God of Gita'. You tell to others to prove or dis-prove their perspectives with Murli quotes, so could you please produce any Murli quotes to corroborate your views. All of us have a mind of our own and it is good to corroborate our views with Murli quotes and not with the mind's eye.
in the near future when Krishna-Brahma becomes 100% sakaari(Prajapita Brahma) and Ram becomes 100% nirakari Ramshivbaba; this whole Sangamyugi ramayan is on Bharat-Krishna-creation(rachna ka adi-madhya-anth) and not Ramshivbaba who is rachieta-creator.
You say that in the near future, Krishna alias Brahma becomes 100% sakaari (prajapita brahma), so during which period of time will Krishna alias Brahma's night will transform into day? Will he become prajapita first or will his night transform into day first?
If you know the creation then the creator is known automatically.
Is this a Murli quote? I assume it should be like, "thou should know thyself to know thy Father."
who is this Bharat ?? when was he pure?? and when will he become 100% impure and degraded??
Is Shiva talking about the broad drama or behad ka drama; whenever Shiva talks about any Murli point, the intellect of BKs and PBKs goes to the past broad drama where no one knows who is Bharat; there was no Bharat(Ram as per the PBKs) when this Murli was spoken before 1969, so which Bharat is Shiva refering to???
Stop beating about the bush and just give your views. Also stop the habit of pointing a finger at the BKs and PBKs. Are you implying that the personalities whom Shiva has spoken before 1969 should be present during that period of time? If so, then why did Shiva speak of Ram and Shankar when the soul of Ram is not present during the era of brahma baba?

If whatever Shiva has mentioned is referred to brahma alias Krishna only, then there will be a full-stop to churnings. As there is a Murli quote that says, "only the ocean of knowledge knows the beginning, middle and the end" and when the Sakar Murlis were delivered by Shiva, the three parts were also included for the brahmins to churn on the past, present and the future.

Also there is only one soul who will become 100% pure and no one else can overtake him. He is none other than the soul of Ram.

Om Shanti -- indie

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 20 Apr 2008

Dear pbk brothers.

Presenting a very important ambiguity between what Shiva says in Murlis and what is taught in advance knowledge.

Advance knowledge teaches us that 10 heads of Maya-Ravan are the 5 seed souls(in pbk world) of 5 religion and 5 base souls in bk world and the 5 religion are Islam - Christianity - Muslim - aryasamaji - nastik.(each representing sex-lust, anger, greed, attachment and ego). However there is not a single point in the Murlis to prove the same.

Now read what Shiva's Murli say about Maya-Ravan.

Murli 22-1-2000 says, Ram-rajya aur Ravan-rajya Bharat mein hi gayaa hua hai. Ab Ram kaun hai yeh bhi koi nahin jante".( Ram-rajya and Ravan-rajya are sung in Bharat only. Now, who is Ram, nobody knows)

Murli 9-4-03 says, "Vicious world sthapan karnewala hai Ravan; viceless world sthapan karnewala hai Ramshivbaba'.
(vicious world is established by Ravan and viceless world is established by Ramshivbaba)

Murli point: 8-12-01. ''Sukh denewale ka janamsthan bhi Bharat mein hai aur dukh denewale ka janamsthan bhi Bharat mein hai. ''
(meaning: One who gives sorrow is also born in Bharat and one who give happiness is also born in Bharat. )

Murli point 28-2-97 says, ''Narak ki sthapana Ravan karte hain, swarg ki sthapana bap karte hai".(meaning that hell is established by Ravan and heaven is established by Father(Ram).

Murli point 15-10-99, "Dwapur Kaliyug is established by Ravan and Satyug treta is established by Father."(Shiva is talking about the shooting period of behad ka drama and not the broad drama)

Murli point 9-2-01 : " Ravan-rajya mein bhi capitol Delhi hai aur Ram-rajya mein bhi capitol Delhi hai"(meaning that " in Ravan-rajya Delhi is capitol, and in Ram-rajya also Delhi is capitol.).

The above points clearly point out that there is only one body (not 10 souls) through' which both parts of Maya-Ravan and Ramshivbaba will be played in this behad ka drama.
Let the readers decide whether they wish to respect the Murlis of Shiva or the teachings of advance knowledge.

shivsena.

new knowledge
Academic
Posts: 463
Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: questioning bk-pbk knowledge

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by new knowledge » 20 Apr 2008

Dear brother shivsena, you quote that in future, Bharat/Krishna will become 100% Sakari (100% corporeal) after achievement of his complete upliftment through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. Do you mean that 16 celestial degrees stage of Bharat/Krishna is 100% Sakari stage? Even at his highest elevated Sato-Pradhan stage, i.e, at the 16 celestial degrees stage, does not Bharat/Krishna become soul-conscious at all? How such a 100% body-conscious personality could be regarded as Shivaalaya, Swarg, PaarasPuri etc? And with the nature of 100% body attachment, how will he (Bharat) become completely free from sex-lust & other vices? How is it possible that 100% Sakari stage of Bharat could hold & express such a high level of purity of 16 celestial degrees

And if Sato-Pradhan stage of Bharat is 100% Sakari stage, then what are the percentages of his Sakari stage when he is in his Tamo-Pradhan stage? - More than 100%?[/color]

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests