Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

An open forum for all ex-BKs, BKs, PBKs, ex-PBKs, Vishnu Party and ALL other Splinter Groups to post their queries to, and debate with, any member of any group congenially.
Post Reply
User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by Roy » 22 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:That is exactly what i would like to ask the PBKs : Did this prediction come true in 1976 and was the rajya of Shri LN established???
Imo, yes! As i mentioned; ShivBaba was talking about the Confluence Age, incognito or subtle, "shooting" of these events, back in 1967. The practical(broad drama) form of these events, will occur in the near future; with the Revelation to the whole world of ShivBaba(Shiv Shankar), and World Emperor Shri Narayan(Baba Dixit-Ram)in 2018; shortly followed, by the huge and final world destruction, in 2036(imo)!

Roy

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 22 Jun 2011

Roy wrote: . The practical(broad drama) form of these events, will occur in the near future; with the Revelation to the whole world of ShivBaba, and World Emperor Shri Narayan(in 2018); shortly followed, by the huge and final world destruction, in 2036(imo)!
Roy
How the future unfolds that remains to be seen.

I feel that first there will be revelation of shivshakti-bharatmata(Maa jagdamba) as personified ShivBaba in the bk-pbk family and then there will be revelation of 108 karmatit farishtas(rudramala) in the whole world.

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 23 Jun 2011

Roy wrote:

"For instance, the residents of Farrukhabad believe the Master. His opinion is there, isn’t it? O.K., then what do you get from that Master? They do not know anything. How should we remember that Master? What’s his name and form? They don’t know anything. Master is the Master of the world, isn’t it? He is the creator. We are the creation." [22.1.72]
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

The above Murli point mentioning the word "Farrukhabad" is a very important for discussion....first we have to ascertain to whom this Murli point is spoken to ??....is it a hint to BKs to go to Farrukhabad and recognise the master!! ....then there is a question mark about "what you get from the master"? ....and then the statement "they do not know anything"...then another question "how should we remember the master" and "what is his name and form"?

Most important :Who is the statement ("They don’t know anything") refering to ??is it refering to BKs or is it refering to PBKs ??

Also last but not the least, If Farukhabad was to reveal the master creator then why avaykt brahma(DL who supposedly comes from there) to narrate Vanis in mt abu never mentions to the bk world about Farukhabad !!!....surely there must be some hidden agenda or mis-interpretation by PBKs about the above Murli point.

shivsena.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11571
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 23 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:Also last but not the least, If Farukhabad was to reveal the master creator then why avaykt Brahma(DL who supposedly comes from there) to narrate Vanis in mt abu never mentions to the BK world about Farukhabad !!!
ShivBaba through Brahma Baba (in Sakar Murlis) gave different kinds of hints and Avyakt BapDada gives different kinds of hints through Avyakt Vanis. It is upto the children to understand these hints and recognize the Father.

In case of Om Radhey Mama there are neither direct nor indirect hints in the Sakar Murlis or AVs, yet you interpret them to mean that she is No.1 soul. Does it not suggest your hidden agenda or misinterpretation?

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 23 Jun 2011

arjun wrote:
In case of Om Radhey Mama there are neither direct nor indirect hints in the Sakar Murlis or AVs, yet you interpret them to mean that she is No.1 soul. Does it not suggest your hidden agenda or misinterpretation?
You are right--that is the hidden agenda(raaj--secret) of Godly knowledge that Mama jagdamba is no. 1 soul shivshakti(personified ShivBaba) and only those who know this raaj-secret will become rajas and those who do not know this raj will become naaraj.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by Roy » 23 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:Most important :Who is the statement ("They don’t know anything") refering to ??is it refering to BKs or is it refering to PBKs ??
Going by the date of this point, this would be the majority, if not all souls at the time of it being narrated... but as time progresses, this point becomes more appropriate for BKs, who do not recognise ShivBaba, in the role of Father(Master), being played in Farrukhabad... the Father that gives the inheritance of jeevanmukti, in this very birth.

"Baba is the master of the entire unlimited world, Father of all the souls. Father is called Master. In the area around Farrukhabad, people believe the Master." [2.5.69]

Roy

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11571
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 23 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:You are right--that is the hidden agenda(raaj--secret) of Godly knowledge that Mama jagdamba is no. 1 soul shivshakti(personified ShivBaba) and only those who know this raaj-secret will become rajas and those who do not know this raj will become naaraj.
How can someone be personified when he/she has already left her body long ago? Personified means that the person should be alive.

shivshakti
Posts: 39
Joined: 11 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: exchange of views of knowledge

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivshakti » 23 Jun 2011

personifiedpast participle, past tense of per·son·i·fy (Verb)
1. Represent (a quality or concept) by a figure in human form.
2. Attribute a personal nature or human characteristics to (something nonhuman).

Personification is representation and the actual embodiment. Mama is the actual embodiment and personification of the Supreme Soul shiv as shiv does not have his own body.

Murli dated 12-3-02 page 1, 11th line from "Om Shanti": " Shareerdhari ko bhagwan nahi kehna chahiye! Sthool va sookshma koi bhi ho ".

Murli dated 12-3-02 page 2,10th line : " hamko behad ka baap padathe hai, inko apna manushya tan tho hai nahi! kudh kehthe hai muj nirakaar baap ko is brahma tan me hee aana hai "

IMO: as per Murli any soul with a body cannot be bhagwan, neither physical or mirco. The question comes that Mama had a body how can she be bhagwan but it is only after Mama left her body that she has become ShivBaba as she emdodied the role of karanhaar bap(the one who enacts on Shrimat) when she was alive and only after she became Avyakt is when she is ShivBaba. The muralis are indicating to the future but as a present tense which is why it is very confusing to understand the roles. At any point of time in Sangamyug the muralis will make sense only after knowing the personification of the roles and please do not say muralis are 3rd class etc because only muralis are the first class knowledge and all other texts are manipulated versions.
DL cannot be Avyakt Faristha as he never attained karmateet avastha and Krishna ka soul Virendra Dev Dixit cannot become ShivBaba as he is shareerdhari.

Shivshakti

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 23 Jun 2011

arjun wrote: How can someone be personified when he/she has already left her body long ago? Personified means that the person should be alive.
The meaning of the word personified(yatharth) has to be understood in its correct perspective... if we assume that some living bodily person has to be the personification of Shiva(yartharth roop) then it means that we are accepting a dehdhari as living God...but this goes against the Murli statement that "Koi bhi dehdhari bhagwan(ka roop) nahin ho sakta."["no bodily person can be God."]

Also first we have to decide whether yatharth roop = Chariot(prajapita)...and if that is so then prajapita should have been worshipped all 365 days in Bhakti-marg and also Murlis should never have the statement that "prajapita brahma(Chariot) se varsa nahin milta"["prajapita brahma does not give inheritance']....so according to me, the yatharth roop and Chariot have to be differentiated and this is the exam which all Godly students will have to pass through in future...and they will get varsa according to their nischay in the Chariot-DL or in the Chariot-VD....or in the yatharth roop of shiv ie no.1 shivshakti Mama (personified ShivBaba)....this is what i feel.

shivsena.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by Roy » 23 Jun 2011

Dear Shivsena Bhai

Please give English translations for your Murli points regarding this matter; otherwise i cannot judge the strength or weakness of your argument, being non-Hindi speaking.

Many thanks!

Roy

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by sita » 24 Jun 2011

DL cannot be Avyakt Faristha as he never attained karmateet avastha
I think karmateet stage is achieved at the end. It is said that the karmic accounts of all the souls finish together. Untill then something or else, bir or small will remain for any soul, but there is a difference that if one has attained such stage through the power of Yoga, he will have his practice whilst in his body, but some soul may be forced to leave his body.

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 24 Jun 2011

Roy wrote: Please give English translations for your Murli points regarding this matter;
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

The English translations have been added in brackets.

shivsena.

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4335
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 24 Jun 2011

sita wrote:
I think karmateet stage is achieved at the end. It is said that the karmic accounts of all the souls finish together. Untill then something or else, bir or small will remain for any soul, but there is a difference that if one has attained such stage through the power of Yoga, he will have his practice whilst in his body, but some soul may be forced to leave his body.
Dear sita.

First no. 1 shivshakti(Mama) has to become karmatit farishta and she(angel-mother) attained that stage in 1965, and then she guides the 108 shivshakti-pandavsena how to become karmatit by narrating avaykt Vanis and giving lessons on how to attain the karmatit awastha.....when the purusharth of 108 is complete then 108 will become numberwise karmatit in future.

shivsena.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11571
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups.
Location: India

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 24 Jun 2011

First no. 1 shivshakti(Mama) has to become karmatit farishta and she(angel-mother) attained that stage in 1965, and then she guides the 108 shivshakti-pandavsena how to become karmatit by narrating avaykt Vanis and giving lessons on how to attain the karmatit awastha.....when the purusharth of 108 is complete then 108 will become numberwise karmatit in future.
How can she be called karmateet in 1965 when the revelation of the Father had not taken place at all? Baba says that when you become karmateet the fight would begin. But neither was there any fighting within the Brahmin family in 1965 nor any fighting between other religions and BKs before 1965. So, how can she be said to have attained karmaateet stage? The world had not undergone as much degradation as it is undergoing now. So, how can she be said to be no.1 soul when she has not faced the degraded world through her own body? It is just like BKs declaring Dadi Janki to have the most stable mind in the world. I heard recently that she was very much disturbed when some BKs/PBKs had tried to contact her to discuss advance knowledge (especially the eight questions put up on this forum).

pbkindiana
PBK
Posts: 616
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by pbkindiana » 24 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:
First no. 1 shivshakti(Mama) has to become karmatit farishta and she(angel-mother) attained that stage in 1965, and then she guides the 108 shivshakti-pandavsena how to become karmatit by narrating avaykt Vanis and giving lessons on how to attain the karmatit awastha.....when the purusharth of 108 is complete then 108 will become numberwise karmatit in future.
SM 21.6.05 -- I have attachment also towards you. If you do not write letter, then i get emotional."

As claimed by you that Om Radhey narrated the Sakar Murlis, then can she develop attachment and get emotional when one has already attained the karmateet stage.

Also if she has attained the karmateet stage then her entrance into Dadi Gulzar should not cause any jerks and temporary amnesia to Dadi Gulzar as the karmateet stage is the perfect stage.

As usual baseless speculation.

indie.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests