Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

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merababa
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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by merababa » 29 Oct 2008

Its been a very interesting conversation about Bharath and bharath wasis. However, I personally beleive that using our own brains and muralis as lathis is apt because I took an advice from baba(Virendra Dev Dixit) and lost a lot of money, would count in crores now. then I was so upset and realised that if Virendra Dev Dixit is really ShivBaba then why are we are calling him " baba " and he is not caling us bacche. He addresses as " Bhai " " behan". why would my Father call me behan , then when I started diverting a little bit from advanced and read muralis as opined by Shivsena to put our own brains, then i felp apni ghot nasha narayani. others in the forum pls do not get frustrated as it will make Maya succeed if ShivBaba ke bacche are frustrated.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 30 Oct 2008

merababa wrote: I personally beleive that using our own brains and muralis as lathis is apt because I took an advice from Baba(Veerendra Dev Dixit) and lost a lot of money, would count in crores now. then I was so upset and realised that if Veerendra Dev Dixit is really ShivBaba then why are we are calling him " Baba " and he is not caling us bacche.
Dear merababa.
Welcome to the forum.

I just wish to add to your experience, that why does God ShivBaba give lokik advice to his children when HE has come to liberate us from all lokik bandhan; HE should just give knowledge and only knowledge and if someone asks him about lokik problems then HE should clearly say(once for all) that "this is not what i have come here for; i have come only to give you knowledge and liberate you from evil"; instead of saying so, HE keeps on giving advice, which most of the times results in heavy losses and more misery to the soul( many PBKs who have received personal advice will vouch for it).

shivsena.

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arjun
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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 30 Oct 2008

shivsena wrote:why does God ShivBaba give lokik advice to his children when HE has come to liberate us from all lokik bandhan; HE should just give knowledge and only knowledge and if someone asks him about lokik problems then HE should clearly say(once for all) that "this is not what i have come here for; i have come only to give you knowledge and liberate you from evil"; instead of saying so, HE keeps on giving advice, which most of the times results in heavy losses and more misery to the soul
You say that the entire advanced knowledge is false and that only the Sakar Murlis are true. So, even in those Sakar Murlis it has been said hundreds of times that children should obtain Shrimat at every step. Murlis also say that children can seek Baba's guidance whenever they are in confusion even in lokik matters. I don't think there is any need for me to quote any Murli for this. Whether that advice of ShivBaba on lokik matters causes benefit or not is another topic.

Either you should believe or disbelieve Sakar Murlis as words of God just as you believe that the entire advanced knowledge is false. If you keep telling that some points of Sakar Murlis are true and some are false then it will be very difficult for people to believe you.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 14 Nov 2008

arjun wrote: You say that the entire advanced knowledge is false and that only the Sakar Murlis are true. So, even in those Sakar Murlis it has been said hundreds of times that children should obtain Shrimat at every step. Murlis also say that children can seek Baba's guidance whenever they are in confusion even in lokik matters. I don't think there is any need for me to quote any Murli for this. Whether that advice of ShivBaba on lokik matters causes benefit or not is another topic.
Dear arjun Bhai.

Just quoting a Murli point which i just read.
Murli 8-12-98 says, "Baba se bahut bacche poochte hain, Yeh dhanda karen ki na karen; Baba kahete hain ki main koi tumare dhande adi ko dekhne aaya hun kya?? main toh teacher hun padane ke liye; dhande ki baat humse kyon poochte ho?? Main toh rajyog sikata hun."
{translation: "many children ask Baba, should i do this business or that business; Baba says I have not come here to see your business etc; I have come as a teacher to teach you; Why do you ask me about your lokik business?? I have come to teach rajyog."]

The above Murli point clearly indicates that at present the role of ShivBaba as Bap-teacher-Satguru is not going on in Advance Party as presumed by PBKs, but it is brahma guru who is teaching jhooti Gita during brahma ki raat and along with that he is advising the students about their lokik business and problems as and when he is asked about the same.

When ShivBaba teaches RajYoga, there will be no need to ask lokik queries about lokik business, as RajYoga will be taught only to 108 king souls and the business of these king souls will be to act as khudai-kidmatgaar(farishta-angels) and spread the message of ShivBaba. (OGS only and not indulge in petty question-answer sessions-either lokik or alokik, as the PBKs are doing now.)

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by bansy » 14 Nov 2008

When ShivBaba teaches RajYoga, there will be no need to ask lokik queries about lokik business,
There is a point being made here.

Whilst Hindi may be easier to direct, but what if a nonspeaking Hindi soul was to ask ShivBaba about some matter, first it needs to be translated to ShivBaba (carefully for meaning of context), and then the reply from ShivBaba also needs tobe translated. So imagine if there were several non speaking Hindi souls, all speaking maybe not just English but say Russian, or French, etc. How much time would it take for ShivBaba to be able to manage such queries, even if it was just a few questions.
It could even be the same question.

Put it another way, if you are in Brazil and you look at the sun, it is the same feeling as someone else looking at the sun in Iceland, as it is for someone in Bhutan, as it is for a Korean. There may be questions in each of these souls minds to ask when it comes to actually facing God, but when in the presence of God, all questions and doubts are removed. The sun speaks for itself without having to do so. And I think God is the same. If one basks in the presence of God, then all is free and beautiful. When someone asks a question, whilst it is one of devotion but also that soul also has some doubt whether it is God or not. Because you do not need to ask any questions about the Sun. It just is.

A diamond stone is lying on the ground sparkling. A bird hops by and notices the diamond and asks why it is so beautiful. The diamond remains silent. It is as it is. Its message is clear, "I (the diamond) am pure". The bird sees a beautiful diamond.

The above is not directed at PBK or BK, but it is my general observation of "spirituality" as whole.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 15 Nov 2008

shivsena wrote:When ShivBaba teaches RajYoga, there will be no need to ask lokik queries about lokik business, as RajYoga will be taught only to 108 king souls and the business of these king souls will be to act as khudai-kidmatgaar(farishta-angels) and spread the message of ShivBaba. (OGS only and not indulge in petty question-answer sessions-either lokik or alokik, as the PBKs are doing now.)
I think it has become necessary to quote the relevant Murli points
"Understand each and every point nicely. If you don't understand any point then you can ask. Make a note that these points have to be asked to Baba. Main matter is regarding remembrance of Father. As for the rest of the doubts etc. they will be clarified." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 18.6.05 page 1 published by BKs)

"Father keeps explaining that if you do not understand anything then you can ask. Human beings do not know anything. ... Baba repeatedly tells children that if you have any doubt, which leads to lack of happiness, then report it. When Father sits and teaches, then one should also study, is not it? Happiness does not remain because you become body conscious. ... So Father explains - If you do not understand anything then ask Baba." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 20.07.05, page 1 & 4 published by BKs)

“Now you keep receiving Shrimat. When some invitation is received (for service) then you should keep asking in every matter whether this should be done or not. Suppose someone is working in Police, then they are also told.-explain (the prisoners) affectionately first. If he does not reveal the truth then later on one can use beatings. One can be persuaded with love, but if the power of Yoga is contained even in that love then anyone will understand if you explain with that power of love. (They will think) It is as if God is explaining. You are yogi children of God, isn’t it? You also possess Godly power.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 13.09.05, page 1 & 2 published by BKs)

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 15 Nov 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

You have quoted Murli points about asking queries of knowledge points to Supreme Father, but there is no mention in those Murlis about queries of lokik business to be asked and advised by the supreme teacher.

Also the students keep on asking vague queries about Bhakti marg and i have hardly noticed any soul asking clarification of important Murli points(which should be the first priority) and if at all some Murli points explanation is asked, then the answer from the supreme teacher leaves the student more confused than before. I do not know how many PBKs have experienced this , but i have experienced it several times. Supreme teacher explaining Godly knowledge and the student feels more confused than before means only two things: either the teacher does not know the subject properly about how to explain and clarify or the student does not have the intellect to understand the teacher. [ Murli says "Bap ko jaanene se tum sab kuch jaan jaooge"]. Here PBKs have known the Father for last 20 years but they are still groping in the dark about many important Murli points.

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 16 Nov 2008

shivsena wrote:You have quoted Murli points about asking queries of knowledge points to Supreme Father, but there is no mention in those Murlis about queries of lokik business to be asked and advised by the supreme teacher.
The last Murli point that I have quoted relates to lokik life only. But you want to pretend not to have read that point. I can quote some more Sakar Murli points where Baba has clearly said that whenever someone is in confusion over their lokik problems they can seek Baba's directions. But where is the quarantee that you will accept them as true? Today you say the entire advanced knowledge is false, tomorrow you will say that the entire basic knowledge including the Sakar Murlis are false.

As regards the questions asked by PBKs to ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit), it is your ego which repeatedly says that none of the questions asked by PBKs is worthwhile, whereas only you can ask solid questions. There are nearly 600 discussion CDs available now and I don't think you have listened to all those discussions. In many CDs, PBKs have even argued with Baba on many issues and you say that they don't ask worthwhile questions. So, it means that your certificate is required for any PBK's question to be worthwhile and your certificate is also required for ShivBaba to start giving the true knowledge. So, why don't you declare directly that you are ShivBaba? Please don't repeat your oft quoted response that it is my emotional outburst. But this is the only inference I can draw from all your conclusions.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 16 Nov 2008

arjun wrote:
“Now you keep receiving Shrimat. When some invitation is received (for service) then you should keep asking in every matter whether this should be done or not. Suppose someone is working in Police, then they are also told.-explain (the prisoners) affectionately first. If he does not reveal the truth then later on one can use beatings. One can be persuaded with love, but if the power of Yoga is contained even in that love then anyone will understand if you explain with that power of love. (They will think) It is as if God is explaining. You are yogi children of God, isn’t it? You also possess Godly power.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 13.09.05, page 1 & 2 published by BKs)
Dear arjun Bhai.
The problem with BKs and PBKs is that they are standing in Sangamyug and their intellect keeps on going back in the outside world and all examples given in Murlis are compared with the outside world. The police mentioned in the above Murlis is the ruhani military(108) and the prisoners mentioned are the souls(16000) in Ravan ki jail of this behad ki duniya, who are to be explained first affectionately and then if they do not understand then in the end the beatings of Dharmraj will then reveal the truth to them. In the end only the 108 souls will be the yogi children of God who will have the power to make the world understand the truth.

Every statement of Murli has to be taken in behad ka sense and not literally (pbk call themselves as Gyani souls but they behave just like BKs when interpreting the Murlis).
You can stick to literal meanings of Murli points while i always try to see the meaning from behad ka sense. (it makes more sense to me).

shivsena

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by andrey » 16 Nov 2008

Will all the 108 souls play the part of Dharamraj?

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 16 Nov 2008

shivsena wrote:You can stick to literal meanings of Murli points while i always try to see the meaning from behad ka sense. (it makes more sense to me).
That is the reason why I feel you are moving in the direction of becoming a ShivBaba yourself :D

Anyways, is it true that you have started believing that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit is not the soul of Ram and that Dada Lekhraj has taken rebirth?

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 17 Nov 2008

arjun wrote:
Anyways, is it true that you have started believing that Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit is not the soul of Ram and that Dada Lekhraj has taken rebirth?

I am still researching and studying the various possiblilites as per the Murlis of Shiva.

If the Murli mahavakyas "jhooti kaya, jhooti Maya, jhoota sab sansar...." and "Bhakti marg mein sab jhoot hi jhoot hai, sach ki ratti bhi nahin", are Shiva's words applicable to this behad ka drama, then i will not be surprised, if all the teachings of this behad ki pbk ki duniya may well turn out to be totally false and cooked up mayavi stories to mislead the PBKs from real personified form of Ramshivbaba. That is why in the end, the bk and pbk world will sing the Murli mahavakya "Teri gat-mat Tu hi jaane aur na jaane koi." [God only knows the truth]

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by andrey » 17 Nov 2008

Well, if it is God only who knows the truth, and from your posts it is visible that PBKs all are living in a lie and you know the truth, then you are....you have said it yourself. Shivsena-ShivBaba.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 17 Dec 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

Do PBKs consider themselves as "Bharatwasis" in view of believing Ram's soul as chaitanya Bharat. If yes, then who are "videshis" and "double videshis"??? Can you please give your views.

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by andrey » 17 Dec 2008

Videshis and double videshis is one and the same here. Double videshis is used having in mind the supreme home, or our own kingdom. In this regards even bharatvasis are videshis, since it is the Kingdom of Ravan now and they are not in their supreme abode. Bharatvasis are those souls whose intellect is directed to the living Bharat in whom the Supreme Soul comes. Videshis are those souls whose intellect is directed towards the dharamgurus.

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