Shankar's Part ?

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mbbhat
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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

1)Everyone is numberwise. In the end of the Confluence Age everyone will become soul conscious. Some with their own effort and some after receiving punishments. 2)It is only those who become soul conscious with their own efforts by having Yoga with ShivBaba will be worshipped as shaligrams.
1)I do not think so. I believe by punishment, one can become pure, not soul conscious. Is there any Murli point supporting your statement? Or is it according to pbk philosophy?

2)again contradiction or the query remains unanswered. Is it not just 8 attain soul conscious by effort? Then how come many saaligraams being worshipped?
unfortunately- it makes me to write same thing repeatedly to make you understand.
The number of PBKs has increased so much that it is not at all possible to get replies in minutes or days.

So- hope you will realize why BKWSU also does not now allow each and everyone to meet their Chariot (Dadi) or gives permission to ask querries at present. It will become market place then.

Would you like to mention the present number of PBKs?
And it is very difficult to trace the thread where you posted any particular question since you keep posting hundreds of queries (most of which are irrelevant).
I may give quick reply. but you need not hurry to give the next reply. I will wait till you reply to put my next comment.

If you feel they are irrelevant, you may ignore.
This only shows your jealousy for the PBKs.
again personal comment-

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arjun
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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by arjun » 13 Aug 2012

1)I do not think so. I believe by punishment, one can become pure, not soul conscious. Is there any Murli point supporting your statement? Or is it according to PBK philosophy?
There is no difference between purity and soul consciousness. One can become pure only when one becomes soul conscious.

“याद तो एक शिवबाबा को ही करना है तो स्वर्ग में जरूर जायेंगे। जो भी आते हैं भल फिर जाकर पतित बनते हैं तो भी स्वर्ग में जरूर आयेंगे। सज़ायें खाकर, पावन बनकर फिर भी आयेंगे जरूर। बाप रहमदिल है ना।“(ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक ०९.०२.०९, पृ. २)
"Just remember ShivBaba. You have to remember one ShivBaba. Then you will certainly go to heaven. Whoever comes, although they go and become sinful, they will certainly come in heaven. They will certainly come (to heaven) even if they have to become pure by suffering punishments. The Father is merciful, isn’t he?”(Revised Sakar Murli dated 09.02.09, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

“बेहद का बाबा आया हुआ है, सभी आत्माओं को ले जाने। इसलिए यहाँ कोई से दिल नहीं लगानी है। यह सब यहाँ के छी-छी बंधन हैं। तुम समझते हो हम अब पवित्र बने हैं तो हमारे शरीर को कोई भी हाथ न लगाये, छी-छी ख्यालात से। वह ख्यालात ही निकल जाते हैं। पवित्र बनने सिवाए वापिस घर तो जा न सकें। फिर सज़ायें खानी पड़ेगी, अगर न सुधरे तो। इस समय सभी आत्मायें अनसुधरेली हैं। शरीर के साथ-साथ छी-छी काम करती हैं। छी-छी देहधारियों से दिल लगी हुई है। बाप आकर कहते हैं – यह सब गन्दे ख्याल छोड़ो। आत्मा को शरीर से अलग होकर घर जाना है।“(ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक ३०.०६.०९, पृ.१)
“Unlimited Baba has come to take all the souls with Him. This is why you should not give your heart to anyone here. All these are dirty bondages of this place. You realize that we have now become pure; so nobody should touch our body with dirty thoughts. Those thoughts vanish. We cannot go back home without becoming pure. Then, if you do not reform you will have to suffer punishments. At this time all the souls are unreformed. They perform dirty actions through the body. They love dirty bodily beings. The Father comes and says – Leave all these dirty thoughts. The soul has to separate from the body and go home.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 30.06.09, pg 1 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)
2)again contradiction or the query remains unanswered. Is it not just 8 attain soul conscious by effort? Then how come many saaligraams being worshipped?
unfortunately- it makes me to write same thing repeatedly to make you understand.
I have answered your question in another thread several times. Unfortunately you are deliberately pretending to be ignorant.
So- hope you will realize why BKWSU also does not now allow each and everyone to meet their Chariot (Dadi) or gives permission to ask querries at present. It will become market place then.
Nice excuse for being unable to answer.
Would you like to mention the present number of PBKs?
You can ask AIVV directly.
again personal comment-
U r doing the same thing repeatedly, but we don't point out. In fact we don't care. Baba has said that we all have to become kalankidhar. So, it is no surprise if you keep defaming the PBKs.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

There is no difference between purity and soul consciousness. One can become pure only when one becomes soul conscious.
This may be according to PBKs.
But, I feel purity means free from vices. And soul conscious stage means having controlling and ruling power.
[Baba many times uses the word purity for sanyaasis, children and also for every soul that descends first from Paramdham]

In that case, if everyone becomes soul conscious, why not everyone becomes King in heaven?

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by Rudraakash » 14 Aug 2012

In that case, if everyone becomes soul conscious, why not everyone becomes King in heaven?
Kingship of heaven depends upon the condition of soul consciousness. Everyone will become soul conscious but few of them will become with their SPIRITUAL EFFORT WITH LOVE (PYAR KE SAATH SAHAJ PURUSARTH) and most of them will become with PUNISHMENT (MAAR). So its the way of number declaration and position.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by arjun » 14 Aug 2012

But, I feel purity means free from vices. And soul conscious stage means having controlling and ruling power.
Can one become pure and free from vices without becoming soul conscious? The first and the last lesson according to the Murlis is soul consciousness and you say that both are different. That is because you think you are greater than ShivBaba.
[Baba many times uses the word purity for sanyaasis, children and also for every soul that descends first from Paramdham]
Sanyasis are no doubt pure, but their purity is just physical. It is the purity of cowards who cannot remain pure while living in a household. so they run away from homes to be pure. So, you cannot compare purity of sanyasis with that being taught by ShivBaba.
In that case, if everyone becomes soul conscious, why not everyone becomes King in heaven?
Again a silly question. Again I would say - Go to your BK teacher and attend the course once again. Everyone does become soul conscious but those who become soul conscious by experiencing punishments will not get any kingship.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 14 Aug 2012

Arjun soul wrote:- Everyone does become soul conscious but those who become soul conscious by experiencing punishments will not get any kingship.
SM 5-5-85(2):- Itney laakhon may se poorey dehi abhimaani sirf 8 baney hain. 8 ki maalaa hai na. Vah bhi numberwaar hain. TOH KITNAA DEHI ABHIMAANI BAN_NAA HAI.
= out of these lakhs, only 8 have become completely soul conscious.


SM 24-5-85(2):- ANTH MAY POOREY DEHI ABHIMAANI BAN_NEVAALE HEE PASS WITH HONOUR BANENGE. BAAKI SABMEY DEH ABHIMAAN ZARAA2 RAHEGAA. -74- [Yaad]

In the end, those become completely soul conscious only will become pass with honour. Others will have body consciousness at least to some extent.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by arjun » 14 Aug 2012

SM 5-5-85(2):- Itney laakhon may se poorey dehi abhimaani sirf 8 baney hain. 8 ki maalaa hai na. Vah bhi numberwaar hain. TOH KITNAA DEHI ABHIMAANI BAN_NAA HAI.
= out of these lakhs, only 8 have become completely soul conscious.
These are the ones who become soul conscious with their own efforts on the basis of Shrimat.
In the end, those become completely soul conscious only will become pass with honour. Others will have body consciousness at least to some extent.
No soul can return to the supreme abode with body consciousness left in them.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 14 Aug 2012

What i mean by purity is free from vices/disease = perfect healthy.
and soul conscious stage = power.

Two persons may have perfect health, but the lifting power of each may differ.
-
Else- if we say- every soul becomes completely pure wither by effort or by punishment, it as good as saying- all the qualities that are attained by effort can also be attained by punishment.

in that case, there cannot be any difference in rank.
---
so- there is this discrimination.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by arjun » 14 Aug 2012

mbbhat Bhai, I don't have time for wasteful arguements. So, I would like to end this topic here. You can write further if you wish. Om Shanti.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 14 Aug 2012

That is right idea.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by arjun » 14 Aug 2012

Om Shanti.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by harikrishna » 19 Sep 2012

shiv ne Shankar me pravesh kiya tho shiv Shankar ko mila dete hai. (SM 16-2-73)

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 26 Sep 2012

Hari Krishna soul wrote:- Shiv ne Shankar me pravesh kiya tho Shiv Shankar ko mila dete hai. (SM 16-2-73)
SM 15-12-76(2):- AISEY THODE HI KAHENGE Shankar MAY SHIV KAA PRAVESH HAI JO TUM SHIVSHANKAR KAHTE HO. BAAP KAHTE HAIN MAIN TOH IS BRAHMA MAY HI PRAVESH KARTAA HUN.

= It cannot be said- Shiv entered in Shankar so that you can call the name Shivshankar. Father says- i enter only in this Brahma.
------------------------
SM 16-4-76(1):- Tum bhi Shantidham may rahnevaale ho. Baap bhi kahte hain main bhi vahaan kaa rahnevaalaa hun. Tum bachche punarjanm may aate ho. Main nahin aataa. Main is rath may pravesh kartaa hun. Yah meraa rath hai. Shankar SE AGAR POOCHENGE, POOCH HEE NAHIN SAKTE. Parantu samjho, karke sookshmvatan may poocho to kahenge yah sookshm sharir humaaraa hai. ShivBaba kahte hain yah humaaraa sharir nahin hai. Yah humney aadhaar liyaa hai. -158


= ..... I enter in this body. This is my Chariot. If you ask Shankar, (but) it is impossible to ask. But, understand, even if we ask in Subtle Region, he will say- this subtle body is mine. .....
-------
Why is it impossible to ask Shankar if he really exists in braahmin family?

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 26 Sep 2012

One of the reasons- why shiv is mixed with Shankar (shown as physical personality)


SM 9-5-82(3):- Baap hai niraakaar, gyaan ka sagar. Vah is rath may pravesh karte hain. VAH TO SHIVSHANKAR KAH DETE. AB SHIV TO (BYEL PAR) SAVARI KAR NA SAKE. Isliye phir Shankar kah dete hain. To bachchon ko bahut rahamdil ban_na chahiye. -9-

= Father is incorporeal, ocean of knowledge. He enters in this Chariot. They say shivshankar. NOW- SHIV CANNOT RIDE (ON BULL). HENCE THEN (THEY) HAVE SAID Shankar. So children should become highly merciful.

Lowkik people might have thought- the one who sits on top of bull and rides should be like a human being. so- they gave human form to Shiv. - i think- here- Baba means so.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by arjun » 26 Sep 2012

SM 15-12-76(2):- AISEY THODE HI KAHENGE Shankar MAY Shiv KAA PRAVESH HAI JO TUM SHIVSHANKAR KAHTE HO. BAAP KAHTE HAIN MAIN TOH IS Brahma MAY HI PRAVESH KARTAA HUN.

= It cannot be said- Shiv entered in Shankar so that you can call the name Shivshankar. Father says- i enter only in this Brahma.
If that is the case, why does he enter in Gulzar Dadi? She is never called Brahma.
And as regards Brahma, Baba has clarified in the Murlis that Brahma can be the name of many. So, the soul of Ram (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) is also a Brahma, in fact Prajapita Brahma. Dada Lekhraj was just a titleholder Brahma.
SM 16-4-76(1):- Tum bhi Shantidham may rahnevaale ho. Baap bhi kahte hain main bhi vahaan kaa rahnevaalaa hun. Tum bachche punarjanm may aate ho. Main nahin aataa. Main is rath may pravesh kartaa hun. Yah meraa rath hai. Shankar SE AGAR POOCHENGE, POOCH HEE NAHIN SAKTE. Parantu samjho, karke sookshmvatan may poocho to kahenge yah sookshm sharir humaaraa hai. ShivBaba kahte hain yah humaaraa sharir nahin hai. Yah humney aadhaar liyaa hai. -158


= ... I enter in this body. This is my Chariot. If you ask Shankar, (but) it is impossible to ask. But, understand, even if we ask in Subtle Region, he will say- this subtle body is mine. ...
-------
Why is it impossible to ask Shankar if he really exists in braahmin family?
None of the souls is beyond the cycle of birth and death except Shiv. When Shiv himself comes to this world, how can the soul of Shankar alone remain only in the Subtle Region without coming to this world? He does come in this world, but is always in tapasya (remembrance). This is why it has been said that you cannot ask Shankar. It is the souls of Shiv and Brahma which generally work through the body of Shankar. And another reason why this has been said is that Shankar never claims that Shiv has entered in him. Titleholder Brahma or Gulzar Dadi may claim, but Shankar never claims. It is impossible for anyone to extract from his mouth that he is the medium of God.

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