Shankar's Part ?

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shivsena
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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by shivsena » 24 Oct 2015

Today's Murli 24-10-15 says : " शंकर का तो इस सृष्टि में पार्ट ही नहीं है। शिव का, ब्रह्मा का, विष्णु का पार्ट है। ब्रह्मा और विष्णु का आलराउन्ड पार्ट है। शिवबाबा का भी इस समय पार्ट है, जो आकर ज्ञान देते हैं।"

When it is clearly said in Murli that Shankar has no part in this physical world, then why do PBKs insist that dehdhari-Virendra Dev Dixit is playing the role of Shankar in this physical world ???

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by shivsena » 29 Oct 2015

Today's Murli 29-10-15 says : " ब्रह्मा-विष्णु-शंकर तीनों का जन्म इकट्ठा है।".
[ " Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar all three are born together. " ]

When do Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar take birth together ???
Why do PBKs believe that Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar take birth at different times in Sangamyugi drama ???

Pease share your views.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by arjun » 30 Oct 2015

Today's Murli 24-10-15 says : " शंकर का तो इस सृष्टि में पार्ट ही नहीं है। शिव का, ब्रह्मा का, विष्णु का पार्ट है। ब्रह्मा और विष्णु का आलराउन्ड पार्ट है। शिवबाबा का भी इस समय पार्ट है, जो आकर ज्ञान देते हैं।"

When it is clearly said in Murli that Shankar has no part in this physical world, then why do PBKs insist that dehdhari-Virendra Dev Dixit is playing the role of Shankar in this physical world ???
When Shiv Himself is bound to play His role in this world drama, how can Shankar's soul remain untouched by it? ShivBaba Himself says that no soul can escape the cycle of birth and death, then how can Shankar be an exception? Shankar does play a part in this world. But since he always tries to remain in a state of remembrance he is said have no part in this world.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by arjun » 30 Oct 2015

Today's Murli 29-10-15 says : " ब्रह्मा-विष्णु-शंकर तीनों का जन्म इकट्ठा है।".
[ " Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar all three are born together. " ]

When do Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar take birth together ???
Why do PBKs believe that Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar take birth at different times in Sangamyugi drama ???
When Shiv comes in this world in the Confluence Age, all the three souls are present around Him at His place of divine incarnation which means that they get alokik birth together. But they are revealed in the world at different times.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by shivsena » 01 Nov 2015

arjun wrote:But since he always tries to remain in a state of remembrance he is said have no part in this world.
When supposed Shankar-Virendra Dev Dixit's soul is in constant state of rememberence, then who is in control of body of -Virendra Dev Dixit from 1976. ??? ... Please clarify.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 20 Nov 2015

Many times Baba says "Shankar does not take rebirth". PBKs interpret it as "Faith of Shankar does not change, and that of rest will fluctuate in one or other manner". But, there are also Murli points which say (subtle) BVS do not take rebirths.

SM 17-10-78(3):- PUNARJANM ShivBaba TOH NAHIN LETE. BVS KO PUNARJANM NAHIN LENAA HAI. BAAP KAHTE HAIN MAIN AATAA HI HUN PATITON KO PAAVAN BANAANEY. -21- [BVS]

= ShivBaba does not take rebirth. BVS do not take rebirths. ...

This once again proves interpretation of PBKs wrong, is it not?

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by arjun » 21 Nov 2015

shivsena wrote:When supposed Shankar-Virendra Dev Dixit's soul is in constant state of rememberence, then who is in control of body of -Virendra Dev Dixit from 1976. ??? ... Please clarify.
I said 'he tries' to be in a state of remembrance. He too is a purusharthi. The Supreme Soul Shiv, the soul of Ram (Virendra Dev Dixit) and the soul of Krishna (Lekhraj Kirpalani) all the three use the body of Virendra Dev Dixit for different purposes.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by arjun » 21 Nov 2015

mbbhat wrote:2)Many times Baba says "Shankar does not take rebirth". PBKs interpret it as "Faith of Shankar does not change, and that of rest will fluctuate in one or other manner". But, there are also Murli points which say (subtle) BVS do not take rebirths.

SM 17-10-78(3):- PUNARJANM ShivBaba TOH NAHIN LETE. BVS KO PUNARJANM NAHIN LENAA HAI. BAAP KAHTE HAIN MAIN AATAA HI HUN PATITON KO PAAVAN BANAANEY. -21- [BVS]
In the end of the Confluence Age when all the three personalities reach their final stage, then even Brahma and Vishnu will not pass through the cycle of birth and death (faith and faithlessness) along with the soul of Shankar who achieves this stage much earlier.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 21 Nov 2015

In the end of the Confluence Age when all the three personalities reach their final stage, then even Brahma and Vishnu will not pass through The Cycle of birth and death (faith and faithlessness)
There is no sense or logic in this, EXCEPT to keep on CONFOUNDING the issue perpetually, with the sole aim to keep the concerned souls TRAPPED in body-consciousness till the VERY END of the Confluence Age, which is the main task assigned to Ravan or Maya within the framework of Drama, to facilitate the determination of the number-wise status of souls. First of all, nothing is mentioned in any Murli, regarding a soul vacillating between faith and faithlessness "till the end". In fact, any soul which so vacillates TILL THE END would be considered to be the LOWEST CATEGORY in the number-wise status of souls. Souls who have STAUNCH, RESOLUTE and COMPLETE FAITH from the very beginning to the very end would be considered to be Self-sovereigns and World sovereigns for the longest period in Golden Age and Silver Age. And point to be noted is- here, the three (subtle) deities are compared/mentioned with ShivBaba himself! (as all of them do not come into the Cycle of birth and death). So, rationally to add the word "in the end" here is illogical.

OK, even if one agrees with you for your satisfaction, same would prove to be wrong again. Because in the end, all will have firm faith (or at least 8 or 108). There will be no question of doubt or fluctuation in any one of them.
the soul of Shankar who achieves this stage much earlier.
Again error. The Murli point never says- soul of Shankar achieves it much earlier. Baba says- Shankar does not come in the Cycle of birth and death. If you say- Shankar achives this stage before others, then it implies that Shankar too comes in the Cycle of birth and death, till he achieves that stage, is it not???

OK, let us still agree with you. Would you like to say- Has Shankar already achieved the final stage or yet to achieve? If yes, when he had achieved? If no, when will he achieve?

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Re: Shankar's Part ?

Post by vrkrao » 08 Dec 2015

Nahi Lete and Nahi Lena hai - We need to be cautious while translation. I believe there is difference between the two words

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by vrkrao » 08 Dec 2015

shivsena wrote:When supposed Shankar-Virendra Dev Dixit's soul is in constant state of rememberence, then who is in control of body of -Virendra Dev Dixit from 1976. ??? ... Please clarify.
This was already asked in one of the discussions (I don't remember VCD#). The reply was that his remembrance was more when compared to rest of souls. It is not like 24x7x365

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Re: Shankar's Part ?

Post by mbbhat » 09 Dec 2015

vrkrao wrote:Nahi Lete and Nahi Lena hai - We need to be cautious while translation. I believe there is difference between the two words
Can you point the difference? Also significance of the Murli point? .

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Re: Shankar's Part ?

Post by vrkrao » 10 Dec 2015

My understanding :
a) Nahi Lete - Do not take
b) Nahi Lena hai - Supposed not to take (but one or more among BVS may take, according to drama)

Regarding the significance, I may not interpret it accurately because the context in which these words were spoken should be also considered. Your questions are appreciable mbbhat and Shivsena brothers, but the appreciation will be more worthy if you could interpret and explain as per BK, or any other philosophy which you believe in, and then seek response from PBK brothers.

For e.g., 1. What according to both of you the point 'BVS - all three are born together' mean ?
2. What does 'birth' mean, as per your understanding ?
3. If Shankar has no part in this physical world and has no re-birth, what does he do from the time
of his birth (question-1); and who is Shankar according to both of you ?
4. What does all round part mean, according to you ? How do you correlate the all-round part with
Brahma and Vishnu ? Who is Vishnu, according to you?

Raising questions is so easy, and just questioning without service does not IMPLY that one is intelligent. If you really want to do service, and move forward, please interpret the Murli points FIRST, according to your understanding of knowledge, and THEN question the rest of groups; OTHERWISE, such random questioning can only be considered to be SPITEFUL CRITICISM of others, with the sole aim of DERISION & MOCKERY, and nothing else fruitful or beneficial either to own self or to others!

Om Shanti

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Re: Shankar's Part ?

Post by shivsena » 11 Dec 2015

vrkrao wrote:
and who is Shankar according to both of you ?
Om Shanti
Rao Bhai.... do PBKs think that Shankar is only one(-Virendra Dev Dixit) or there are 108 who are master Shankar??

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 11 Dec 2015

vkrao wrote:This was already asked in one of the discussions (I don't remember VCD*#). The reply was that his remembrance was more when compared to rest of souls. It is not like 24x7x365
If remembrance of Mr Dixit is more than soul of DL, how can soul of DL control or misuse body of Dixit? So, I believe above to be not logical.
vrkrao wrote:My understanding -
a) Nahi Lete - Do not take
b) Nahi Lena hai - Supposed not to take (but one or more among BVS may take according to drama)
When PBKs believe the other two souls (B and V), shown in (their concept of) Trimurti, are not very next to soul of Shankar, why "supposed not to take"?

Now- once PBKs (or you) say- remembrance of soul of Shankar is not constant, (but best when compared to other souls) then obviously, his faith too would be fluctuating, may be least when compared to other souls, is it not? So, the PBk interpretation of the Murli point- "Shankar does not come in rebirth" (PBKs interpret this as- his faith does not fluctuate, but that of rest fluctuate) loses value.

Moreover, as per their own words, faith of Shankar was lost earlier when the soul had left Yagya in 1942. So, where do their (mis)interpretations fit?
Regarding the significance, I may not interpret it accurately because the context in which these words were spoken should be also considered.
This is the most important thing in many such Murli points. But, it is unfortunate that PBKs jump to conclusion that God had entered in someone before DL (when hundreds of other Murli points say- "I have come in THIS one, and THIS ONE ONLY, I begin from THIS(DL)".
For e.g., 1. What according to both of you the point 'BVS - all three born together' mean?
Baba creates an image/concept of BVS or Subtle Region, or the goal in advance. There is no actual creation. For example, an engineer/teacher initially draws plan/sketch of the building/project he is going to build, which is the goal. So, initially, Baba had created Subtle Region, means Baba introduced the concept of Subtle Region and Trimurti.

More given here- Post No. 26 to 28. http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ject#p4078 See the Murli point where Baba says- actually, there are no BVS. Even if vision of Brahma happens, it is just a vision. Even Brahma does not exist in Subtle Region (obviously impossible UNTIL 1969)
2. What does 'birth' mean as per your understanding ?
Here, it means just introducing the concept, showing the role & goal of the soul with CLEAR UNDERSTANDING. And, at some places, it also means physical births.

Murli point says- "all the three BVS got birth together". But, as per PBKs, they took birth one after the other. First their adi Brahma, then the others. OK , let's still agree the difference was just few minutes and hence negligible.

But, as per PBKs, it was not three personalities, it was four - Adi Brahma(soul of Kamala Devi) , Radha bachchi(soul of Vedanti sister), Sevakram(soul of Dixit) and B Baba(DLR)]. So four! So, again going against Murli points. Where did the 4th one DISAPPEAR? If PBKs add the fourth one as well, how does it become trimurtis?

Furthermore, they STAUNCHLY BELIEVE that the word 'Shankara' REPRESENTS the advanced knowledge being disseminated through three DISTINCT SOULS, viz., (Supreme Father Supreme Soul) SHIV, (soul of Brahma Baba, DLR) 'Krishna' and the (soul of Rama of Treta Yug, who is also Confluence Age 'Krishna' & 'Narayan' & 'Prajapita', etc., etc., etc.) 'RAMA', ALL THREE operating through ONE CORPOREAL BODY after 1969. In this case the REAL Trimurti of PBKs should ACTUALLY be Soul of Shiv, soul of 'Krishna' and soul of 'Rama'; BUT the PBKs COMPLETELY ELIMINATE the soul of 'Krishna' from their official Trimurti (akari pita ko UDA dete hain - they 'shoot' the 'akari' father), and place others in that place. Does it not enter the intellect of ANY PBK AT ALL that this is all nothing but JIGRI-PUGRI of Ravan Rajya???
3. If Shankar has no part in this physical world and has no rebirth, what does he do from the time of his birth (question-1)
As explained above. The teacher ShivBaba had drawn a map or picture of the project. He has not taken birth in 1936.
and who is Shankar according to both of you ?
I am still not sure. I have already put my views in the same topic (this is page No. 19, you may refer to previous pages). I would like to say again. I believe the role of Shankar fits best for Mama, after 1965. Because Baba has clearly said- "Shankar neither takes knowledge, nor gives it. There is no connection of Shankar with Brahma or Vishnu, Saraswati should be placed at the seat of Shankar, Shankar cannot speak, you cannot ask Shankar, etc., etc., etc."

So, I believe the karmaateet stage/body of Mama (after 1965 as she had attained karmaateet stage), is playing role of Shankar. Views put in Posts 97 and 98.
http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ati#p12327

Also- an Avyakt Murli point put in post No. 170 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=230 - "when you reach high stage, Baba himself will take service from your stage". Many times Baba has also said your angelic body will do service (automatically). So, I believe the subtle body/stage of Mama, after 1965, can play the CHIEF role of Shankar. Even if Mama has taken new birth, her stage may be used by karankaravanhaar ShivBaba for service, may be in subtle form or as well as in a corporeal body too, on the corporeal sphere. They are just my churning, so not sure.
4. What does all round part mean, according to you ? How do you correlate the all round part with Brahma and Vishnu ? Who is Vishnu according to you?
Both B and S and the other 108 souls (numberwise) play allround part. They are foundation(after ShivBaba) for the rest. It is to do the highest service to all the souls in the world.

How do you believe Mr Dixit's role as alround part? Doing so many errors, his Jagadmaba going out of Yagya, he himself failed and was out of Yagya from 1942 till 1969 or 1976?
Raising questions is so easy and just questioning without service does not conclude that one is intelligent.
Actually, does not this fit best to PBKs who raise questions by taking ISOLATED Murli points and keep making one-sided interpretations? But, PBKs themselves fail to reply to their own claims. Put here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593

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