Shankar's Part ?

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harikrishna
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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by harikrishna » 03 Jan 2016

mbbhat wrote:If remembrance of Mr Dixit is more than soul of DL, how can soul of DL control or misuse body of Dixit?

Because the soul of Shankar is still in purusharthi stage, and also there is a karmic account between those two, so soul of DL is able to control his body. But once his purusharth is complete and he attains 100% baap saman stage then Shankar will have long jump and then control DL.

mbbhat wrote:Now- once PBKs (or you) say- remembrance of soul of Shankar is not constant, (but best when compared to other souls) then obviously, his faith too would be fluctuating, may be least when compared to other souls, is it not? So, the PBK interpretation of the Murli point- "Shankar does not come in rebirth" (PBKs interpret this as- his faith does not fluctuate, but that of rest fluctuate) loses value.

Comparing remembrance and faith is wrong. In purusharthi stage there are three stages. Baba told sakari, akari and nirakari stages.(abhi abhi sakari, abhi abhi akari, aur abhi abhi nirakari). So the remembrance fluctuates in sakari, akari and nirakari stages.That does not mean he lost faith. He has complete faith that Shiv is entering into him in all three stages.

mbbhat wrote:Moreover, as per their own words, faith of Shankar was lost earlier when the soul had left Yagya in 1942. So, where do their (mis)interpretations fit?

Shankar aka Ram does not lose faith in 1942. Yes, in 1942, Ram failed, but that does not mean he lost faith. Ram failed because that time, the knowledge was not complete. But he has complete faith in Shiv entering in him.

"I have come in THIS one, and THIS ONE ONLY, I begin from THIS(DL)".

That point does not refer to Dada Lekhraj. But it refers to permanent(fixed or mukarar) rath.The only one rath through which God gives mukti and jeevan mukti to entire world; that's why Shiv baba told that there were personalities in Yagya who gave drill to Mama and baba also. And in that, Baba also told that Baba entered in them and gave directions.

10 varsh se saath me rahane vale dhayn me jay, Mama-baba ko bhi drill karate the. head ho kar bithate the. unme Baba pravesh kar direction dete the. (Mu 25.7.67 page 2 last)

mbbhat wrote: Baba creates an image/concept of BVS or Subtle Region, or the goal in advance. There is no actual creation. For example, an engineer/teacher initially draws plan/sketch of the building/project he is going to build, which is the goal. So, initially, Baba had created Subtle Region, means Baba introduced the concept of Subtle Region and Trimurti.

More given here- Post No. 26 to 28. http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ject#p4078 See the Murli point where Baba says- actually, there are no BVS. Even if vision of Brahma happens, it is just a vision. Even Brahma does not exist in Subtle Region (obviously impossible UNTIL 1969)

Yes Baba cleared that there is no Subtle Region beyond Sakar world. It is in the intellect of children.
(Baaki sukhshma vatan me kya hai, kuch bhi nahi).

mbbhat wrote:Murli point says- "all the three BVS got birth together". But, as per PBKs, they took birth one after the other. First their adi Brahma, then the others. OK , let's still agree the difference was just few minutes and hence negligible.

But, as per PBKs, it was not three personalities,
it was four - Adi Brahma(soul of Kamala Devi) , Radha bachchi(soul of Vedanti Sister), Sevakram(soul of Dixit) and B Baba(DLR)]. So four! So, again going against Murli points. Where did the 4th one DISAPPEAR? If PBKs add the fourth one as well, how does it become trimurtis?
There is no difference in time in the birth of BVS. Shiv enters in Adidevi(jagadamba) and at the same time in adinath(Shankar) also. (jagadamba was telling and at the same time Shankar was understanding it because Shiv entered in him). At the same time Vedanti Mama(Vishnu) was listening the conversation. So all three BVS got birth together. At that time Dada Lekhraj was not there. He later came to know the clarification through jagadamba. So there were present only three, but not four. So the trimurthi got birth together.
mbbhat wrote:I am still not sure. I have already put my views in the same topic (this is page No. 19, you may refer to previous pages). I would like to say again. I believe the role of Shankar fits best for Mama, after 1965. Because Baba has clearly said- "Shankar neither takes knowledge, nor gives it. There is no connection of Shankar with Brahma or Vishnu, Saraswati should be placed at the seat of Shankar, Shankar cannot speak, you cannot ask Shankar, etc., etc., etc."
Shankar does not give knowledge. The Supreme Soul Shiv gives knowledge through the body of Shankar. Shankar is in remembrance, and the one who plays the part through his body is Shiv. Shankar cannot speak, it is Shiv who speaks through his body. Saraswathi should be placed at the seat of Shankar, because it is the shiv-shaktis who actually do the destruction.
mbbhat wrote:How do you believe Mr Dixit's role as alround part? Doing so many errors, his Jagadmaba going out of Yagya, he himself failed and was out of Yagya from 1942 till 1969 or 1976?

Actually, does not this fit best to PBKs who raise questions by taking ISOLATED Murli points and keep making one-sided interpretations? But, PBKs themselves fail to reply to their own claims. Put here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593
There was no error in Baba Dixitji's role. It should be understood by churning the knowledge in real sense. That's why it was told in Murli that Shankar's part is wonderful.

Failed in unit test, would not be failed. But failed in final exam is the real fail. Baba clearly told that you should not tell Ramchandra failed.

Bap samajhte hai aise nehi kahenge ramchandr fail hua. Nahi. koi bachhe fail huye(in 1942) jo jaakar bhavishy me (in 1969) ramchandr(Shankar) bante hai. Ram va sita treta me thodehi padate hai, jo kahe fail huye. yah bhi samjhne ki baat hai na. (Revised Mu 9.8.70 page 1 middle)

When the original principal was absent, there would be vice-principal who will take responsibility. Like that, Dada Lekhraj took responsibility. But he is not permanent(Fixed or mukarar) rath. (Baba told that he took the body of Dada Lekhraj temporarily).

ShivBaba ka yah temporary rath hai (Revised Mu 25.6.71 page 3 last)

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 03 Jan 2016

Mr Virendra Dev Dixit wrote: Some children had been controlling entire Yagya even Mama and Baba - Flaw No 56- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50371&hilit=entire#p50371
To whom PBKs themselves say - their purity is cowardice - as per their own statements, had been able to control entire Yagya.

And, they believe soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani had attachment and was not able to control BKWSU. Attachment is definitely a weakness. They may say say- even now, B Baba is not able to control BKWSU.

They say their Father Virendra Dev Dixit is strict and their house(AIVV) is far accurate than BKWSU.
harikrishna wrote:Because the soul of Shankar is in purushardhi stage and also there is a karmic account between those two,DL soul is able to control his body.But once his purushardh complete and attain 100% baap saman stage then Shankar will have long jump and then control DL.
So, as per PBKs, the two mothers were able to control entire Yagya initially. But, they say- the number one human soul cannot control just a single soul Lekhraj Kirpalani (about whom they believe even his purity was cowardice and will not get seat in the first 4.5 lakhs)!

PBKs believe Lekhraj Kirpalani plays role of MOTHER, and Mr Virendra Dev Dixit plays role of Father. How can mother ride Father? If mother can control the Father till almost the end time, HOW CAN Father BE CALLED AS Father OR STRICT? Does it make any sense? So, is Father playing his role PRACTICALLY only for few period at the end of Kalpa, and hence during most of the period, the major role through body of Mr. Dixit is MOTHER ONLY?


Abhimanyu wrote:It is because when soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani is present in Veerendra Dev Dixit, he achieves seed form stage due to his company, as Veerendra Dev Dixit is the Father of humanity, so he is in more seed form stage(incorporeal stage) than any other human soul. Plus the soul of Shiva is also present in him which is always in 100% incorporeal(nirakari) stage. - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2635&p=50547#p50547
PBKs believe soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani puts effort through body of Mr Dixit. Also, Baba has said ShivBaba will not ride the Chariot whole day. Then obviously, there would be just two souls in body of Dixit at least for some period when soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani puts effort in the body of Mr Dixit (as per their claims). So, how come there is no effect of astral body of Lekhraj Kirpalani on Mr Dixit, if PBKs believe at present, soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani is more powerful?

PBKs say- (during the incident when Mr Dixit had slapped some sister during Amrit Vela) - it was soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani who slapped the sister. Now, at least during that time, soul of Shiv could not be present there. So, how come there was no effect of astral body of B baba on Mr. Dixit (if they believe soul of B baba is more powerful than Mr. Dixit at present)?

Again we can see contradictions here- PBKs believe at present (mostly they believe from 1976) itself remembrance of Mr Dixit was the highest. So, how come soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani can control Mr Virendra Dev Dixit when they believe latter soul is at higher stage of remembrance? [You may also refer -Flaw No. 59- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50371&hilit=entire#p50371 ]
harikrishna wrote:Shankar aka Ram does not lost faith in 1942.yes,in 1942 Ram was failed but that does not mean he lost faith.Ram failed because that time The Knowledge was not complete.But he has complete faith in Shiv entering in him.
So, even when he had faith, he left Yagya! For what purpose? Even when they claim the ENTIRE Yagya was in their own hands, what made him to leave Yagya if he had full faith that God was entering in him?
That point does not refer to Dada Lekhraj.But it refer to permanent radh.
No Murli point says - permanent Chariot. It says - fixed Chariot, and temporary Chariot. God never has any permanent Chariot, he plays role for temporary period only, that too does not ride the Chariot whole day.
Shankar does not give knowledge.The Supreme Soul Shiv gives knowledge in the body of Shankar.Shankar is in remembrance and the one who play the part through his body is Shiv.Shankar cannot speak it is Shiv who speak through his body.
PBKs give example that when God had come in Lekhraj Kirpalani, even soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani was able to listen and speak. So, obviously, Mr Dixit should be able to listen and speak. But, how come here Mr Dixit cannot speak? Who or what binds him?

OK, at least after Shiv leaves, will not Mr Dixit speak? Cannot one ask Shankar then? Why does Murli point say- Shankar SE POOCH HEE NAHEEN SAKTHAY = YOU CANNOT ASK Shankar?
Bap samajhte hai aise nehi kahenge ramchandr fail hua.Nehi.koi bachhe fail huye(in 1942) jo jaakar bhavishy me (in 1969) ramchandr(Shankar) bante hai.Ram va sita treta mein thodehi padate hai jo kahe fail huye.yah bhi samjh ne ki baat hai na.(Revised Mu 9.8.70 page 1 middle)
Another just plain mis interpretation. Baba says- R and S did not fail in that birth in Silver Age, (but they had failed in their effort during previous Kalpa). Where does Murli point say 1942 or 1969? Is there any single Murli point which says- Ramchandr = Shankar? How can then you equate Ramachandr = Shankar?
---------------
Conclusion:-

1)On one hand, PBKs say- At present Soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani is more power than soul of Dixit, but at the same time, they say remembrance of Mr Dixit is highest than any soul even now, which are contradictory. How can then soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani enter in Dixit?

2)And, they believe MOTHER can ride on Father!

3)Also- most of the time in AIVV it is MOTHER who RIDES on Father. So practically it would be MOTHER above Father during most of the period in their Conf. Age, is it not?

4)Still PBKs believe their Father is STRICT and hero actor in the drama!

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by harikrishna » 03 Jan 2016

1)On one hand, PBKs say- At present Soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani is more power than soul of Dixit, but at the same time, they say remembrance of Mr Dixit is highest than any soul even now, which are contradictory. How can then soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani enter in Dixit?
DL is Krishna baccha.child can ride on the heart(intellect) of Father that does not mean child is higher than Father.There is a karmic relation between Father and child.so he enter in him.Child can ride on Father and Father is like a servent to his child.But that does not mean child is higher than his Father.But once the child grow(Understand Father) and know the value of Father he then respect him the most.Because of ignorance of value of Father(bachha buddhi) he try to interfere.
2)And, they believe MOTHER can ride on Father!
He play the role of mother when he enter in jagadamba.When he enter in Ram bap he play the role of Krishna baccha but not mother.
3)Also- most of the time in AIVV it is MOTHER who RIDES on Father. So practically it would be MOTHER above Father during most of the period in their Conf. Age, is it not?
Its Krishna child who rides on Father.Once he grow(In understanding Father) then Father will control him.
4)PBKs believe their Father is STRICT and hero actor in the drama!
Yes, Shankar is Father and hero actor in the drama.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by harikrishna » 03 Jan 2016

So, even when he had faith, he left Yagya! For what purpose? Even when they claim the ENTIRE Yagya was in their own hands, what made him to leave Yagya if he had full faith that God was entering in him?
There was a clash between sevak Ram and DL in Yagya about purity.Because of that he left his body as he was killed by vidharmis and they made to disappear his body from Yagya and as well as alter the Yagya history.But Shiv gave intense proofs of that personality in Murlis.No one can not hide truth.
No Murli point says - permanent Chariot. It says - fixed Chariot, and temporary Chariot. God never has any permanent Chariot, he plays role for temporary period only, that too does not ride the Chariot whole day.
yes, there are two chariots.1)Fixed Chariot(Mukarar radh) and 2)temporary Chariot.

Proofs:

1)Shiv baba ka yah temporary radh hai(Mu 25.6.71 page 3 last)

2)Yah unka mukarar(Fixed) radh hai(Mu 15.8.72 page 3 start)

3)Prajapita brahma ko bhi creator kahate hain(Mu 26.7.77 page 2 start)

4)creator brahma ko nehi kaha jata(Mu 13.2.75 page 2 middle)

Point 3 and 4 clariffies that brahma and praja pita brahma both are different.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by harikrishna » 03 Jan 2016

mbbhat wrote
Another just plain mis interpretation. Baba says- R and S did not fail in that birth in Silver Age, (but they had failed in their effort during previous Kalpa).
It is not misinterpretation. Baba clearly said that it should not be told that Ram chandra had failed.You are misinterpreting that Ram and sita had failed in previous Kalpa.Where has baba told that it is in previous Kalpa? Baba told they would not read in treta yug to tell that they had failed.They read in sangam yug to pass or fail.So clearly matter relates to sangam yug but not to treta yug.Moreover No one knows any Godly knowledge in Silver Age.So no one can tell that they were not failed in treta yug as no one knows about Godly knowledge in treta yuga.All the drama is in sangam Yuga but not in treta yuga to tell that they were failed.All in all, matter clearly relates to sangam yug but not to treta yug as they wont read in treta yug and no one knows this knowledge in treta yug to tell whether they pass or fail.And you are saying that Ram was failed.But Baba told that it should not be said that he had failed.Now decide who was correct?More over baba also told in Murli that Ram and sita will come in Satyug.And they will become the best of the best servants (Parents are the best of the best servants to their children)to Radha and Krishna in Satyug.

1)Father hamesha obedient hote hain.seva bahot karte hain.kharcha kar,padhakar phir sab dhan doulath bacchom ko dekar khud jaakar sadhuvom ka sang karte hain.(Mu 27.6.75).

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 03 Jan 2016

DL is Krishna baccha.child can ride on the heart(intellect) of Father that does not mean child is higher than Father....
Ridiculous and double standards! PBKs say role of Father is strictness. And, even accuse Lekhraj Kirpalani for not controlling Yagya. But, as per them, it is OK if Mr Dixit allows child to play and create disturbance.

Even in lowkik, a Father will not allow his children to do mischievous things in his official work. In home, OK, he may be liberal. And, in Conf. Age, we are on duty for 24 hours, because it is our life style that matters, and not just what we speak. So, why not Mr. Dixit control him?
sita wrote:It is true that the subtle soul of Brahma is now more powerful. Like in the world the BK name is more famous now, Krishna being God of the Gita is more famous now, the path of Bhakti is prospering. Now the bull rides over Shankar. When Shankar's purusharth becomes complete he will ride over the bull, he will become more powerful. Brahma Baba will not enter in Prajapita anymore or he will make complete effort and finish his subtle body.
harikrishna wrote:Because the soul of Shankar is still in purusharthi stage, and also there is a karmic account between these two, so soul of DL is able to control his body. But once his purusharth is complete and he attains 100% baap saman stage then Shankar will have long jump and then control DL.
So far PBKs had been saying "AT PRESENT soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani is more powerful than Mr Dixit". Now, they are saying different. [Have taken U turn]. That is OK]. Even then the explanation above did not fit.
He play the role of mother when he enter in jagadamba.When he enter in Ram bap he play the role of Krishna baccha but not mother.
Where is Jagadamba from 1996/98 in AIVV? How the real creation of children can happen (IN CORPOREAL), when there is no mother in Yagya then?
here was a clash between sevak Ram and DL in Yagya about purity.Because of that he left his body as he was killed by vidharmis and they made to disappear his body from Yagya and as well as alter the Yagya history.But Shiv gave intense proofs of that personality in Murlis.No one can not hide truth.
Total failure of PBKs in explaining about concept of Sevakram. - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2579&start=15

A PBK even says - Sevakram continued to do business - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... Ram#p15000 .

So, it is again Mr. Dixit's another clever ploy which has created even this story. Regarding the Murli point- Corpse of ShivBaba- you may go through here- Post No. 85- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... pse#p11852

Still if you are accusing that somebody in Yagya itself had killed Sevakram in 1942, still it does not fit. Because Guru of PBKs himself says- the two mothers had been controlling ENTIRE Yagya even after 1942. So, it loses value.

Regarding Ram and Sita, what you has said is totally baseless. As Baba has clearly said R and S did not fail in Silver Age. [But other murlipoint clearly have said that R and S failed, hence could not become in sun dynasty]. Baba has used the words- NOWKAR and BHARI DHOYENGE (second class words) for Sita and Ram . See post No, 79 and 172 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 100#p11517
http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=230

Baba has also said somebody (R and S) will fail. See mu point No. 5) in Post No. 194 in the same topic.

So, Mr. Dixit has fooled PBKs even here by saying that parents are like servants. But, if you still believe it is correct, it is left to you. All the best.

I agree I am yet to know full contrast between sun and moon dynasties. But, the explanation or interpretation of PBKs about R and Sita go totally out of every context what baba had said and just claim wrong. It is just another manipulation by Mr. Dixit.

But, everything is OK in drama. Nothing to bother. Move as you like. All the best.

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by harikrishna » 03 Jan 2016

mbbhat wrote:Ridiculous and double standards! PBKs say role of Father is strictness. And, even accuse Lekhraj Kirpalani for not controlling Yagya. But, as per them, it is OK if Mr Dixit allows child to play and create disturbance.

Even in lowkik, a Father will not allow his children to do mischievous things in his official work. At home, OK, he may be liberal. And, in Conf. Age, we are on duty for 24 hours, because it is our life-style that matters, and not just what we speak. So, why not Mr. Dixit control him?
My dear Brother,

For your better understanding, here is the explanation.

You have 'man'(Mind) and 'buddhi'(Intellect) in your soul. We all know that 'buddhi'(Intellect) is more elevated than 'man'(Mind). But at present, the mind is 'ruling' the intellect. Whenever we are in 'purusharthi'(effort-making) stage, the mind 'rules' the intellect proportionately. But once we control our mind with 'abhyasa and vairagya'(exercise/drill and distaste), then the mind would be controlled by the intellect completely. Till then it jumps like a monkey from one place to the other. Similar occurrence takes place with 'man'(Brahma) and 'buddhi'(Shankar). Just as 'buddhi'(Intellect) is higher or more elevated than 'man'(Mind), even though, and when it does not listen to the good advice of the intellect, we would not say that mind is higher or more elevated than the intellect. 'Intellect'(Shankar) is always POTENTIALLY or INHERENTLY higher or more elevated than the Mind(Brahma).

If there are no parents for Krishna, from where would Krishna be born? Will he come floating on a 'Peepal Leaf' on the Water of the Ocean, Sucking his Thumb? He won't be born from the Sky, would he? Or do you think that he will emerge from THIN AIR; or as the souls, coming from Paramdham, touch the earth, they would turn into bodies instantly, by magic? He needs parents to be born, who have to make his(Krishna's) body as kanchana kaya(Golden Aged body). Krishna CANNOT set Foot on an Impure Land(body) or an Impure Earth('dharti'), can he? So the parents have to be pure or not? Otherwise, how can a pure body be born from an impure body? So the parents have lot of work to do to prepare kanchana kaya(Golden Aged body), and to give birth to a child like Krishna with purest form. His parents are in Advance Party, who attain that yogik power through deep meditation, to prepare kanchana kaya(Golden Aged body) for their children. So, who would be considered to be superior, those who purify this same impure body into a pure body, or those who take pure birth from such PRE-PURIFIED pure body? Why does not the intellect of BKs work on this critical matter EXHAUSTIVELY and COMPREHENSIVELY, instead of just continuing to justify your stance by giving various Murli points endlessly? You will ultimately have to face this reality, and you CANNOT dodge it anymore, can you? So, make special effort and check with your Seniors in BKWSU, as to WHAT EXACTLY the PROCESS of TRANSFORMATION from a Kaliyugi or Sangamyugi body to a Satyugi body is going to be, for your very own benefit! Don't you think this is the MOST CRITICAL aspect which URGENTLY DEMANDS FULL ATTENTION from EVERYONE CONCERNED, NOW, according to the time, which has now reached the very end of Confluence Age?
So, Mr. Dixit has fooled PBKs even here by saying that parents are like servants. But, if you still believe it is correct, it is left to you. All the best.
No, Baba dixit ji does not say that parents are like servants. It was told by ShivBaba through the mouth of Brahma Baba that parents are like servants to their children. I already mentioned the date of that Murli also. Many more such Murli points are there, which were spoken by ShivBaba through the mouth of DL Brahma to understand that.

1)Father hamesha obedient hote hain.seva bahot karte hain.kharcha kar,padhakar phir sab dhan doulath bacchom ko dekar khud jaakar sadhuvom ka sang karte hain.(Mu 27.6.75).

The Murli of ShivBaba is the poetry of great great poet.To understand that, one should have churning mind.
I agree I am yet to know full contrast between sun and moon dynasties.
To know fully, you should take advance knowledge. Baba clearly said that Ram and Sita will come in Golden Age.("prashn uthta hai. Ram aur sita satya yug me aate hain? aate hain!" = The question arises, 'Do Ram and Sita come in the Golden Age?' They do come!) And in the scriptures also it was told that Ram was superior to Krishna. In Murli also it was told that "Ram kaha jata hai baap ko" = Father is called as Ram, but it does not say anywhere in Murlis that 'Krishna ko baap kahenge' = 'Krishna can be called as Father'. So baap(Father) is always higher than child. Shiv Baba Himself said that ''Ram kaha jata hai baap ko" = Father is called as Ram. Krishna was not called as 'Father' in any Murli. He was called as a small child in Murlis. So Father(Ram) is always greater than child(Krishna).

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by harikrishna » 03 Jan 2016

Gaate bhi hain sabka sadgati data Ram, parantu bandar buddhi hone ke karan samjte nahi ki Ram kisko kaha jata hai. Kahate hai jidhar dekho Ram hi Ram ramate hain. abhi ramate to manushya hai na? (Mu 11.3.75 page 1 last)

They sing the praise, "The bestower of Salvation for ALL is Ram", but since they have a monkey-intellect they do not understand who is (actually) called Ram. They say, "Wherever you look only Ram is roaming" (prevalent). But now (actually) it is humans who are roaming (prevalent), is it not?

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Re: Shankars Part?

Post by mbbhat » 04 Jan 2016

harikrishna wrote:For your better understanding, here is the explanation....
Each soul has its one mind and intellect. So, saying Dixit as 'intellect' and B Baba as 'mind' does not fit. If so, then which soul is 'sanskaar'?

Even then, PBKs believe child can RIDE Father and disturb him or the atmosphere of Yagya till the near end of Kalpa. So, it is Father's era or child's era in Conf. Age for AIVV? Then (in their view) Prajapita should also get name CHILD, is it not? since role of child is also being played through the same body (Mr. Dixit)"
Krishna CANNOT set Foot on an Impure Land(body) or an Impure Earth('dharti'), can he?
Murli Point clearly says Father of children is impure. But, his birth is said to be as viceless. I believe the soul of the parents would be pure, but not body. Read Post No. 114 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=150
They are just my churning. So, yet to know. But, explanation of Mr. Dixit goes against Murli points. [Baba has said parents of Krishna would be impure, as well as, when Krishna takes birth, there would be some impure souls too].
No, Baba dixit ji does not say that parents are like servants. It was told by ShivBaba through the mouth of Brahma Baba that parents are like servants to their children.
I know that Baba through Lekhraj Kirpalani had said so. But it was said in general.

But, regarding Krishna and Radha, Baba has clearly said- name of parents of Krishna are not as famous as Radha and Krishna. Because their parents had studied lesser. VERY CLEARLY in Murli point regarding Ram and Sita, Baba has said - "noukari karte2 unnati ko paavenge = By doing work (usually baba says- noukari = tokri = basket= burden), they rise. They get throne only at the END". So your explanation does not fit.
And in the scriptures also it was told that Ram was superior to Krishna.
In scriptures, Krishna is shown as superior over Ram. Krishna is shown as Godly power to highest extent. Krishna was never shown as sad or confused or dim. But, Ram has been shown as dim, confused many times. If you see temples, highest numbers and glory is of Shiv, and then Krishna/Narayan. But, glory of temples of Ram is much lesser.

Baba also says- "No one will raise hand to become Ram and Sita" Do you need more proof?

And, regarding Ram greater than Krishna, 'Ram' is said for God(ShivBaba) here, NOT Ram of Tretayug. But, unfortunately Mr. Dixit has used the Murli points meant for God on himself, and hence it is clear that he is playing role of Hiranyakashyap, is it not?

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Re: Shankar's Part ?

Post by harikrishna » 05 Jan 2016

....interpretations are NOT in accordance with the Murli points
You are WRONG again.
All interpretations are in accordance with Murli points. But to understand PROPERLY, one needs a churning mind. Because Murli is the poetry of ShivBaba.

In 1966 Murli, Baba spoke this Murli point -
"Tum sab batay denge. In lakshmi Narayan ka janm kab hua? aaj se 10 varsh kam 5000 varsh hua".
(Mu in the year 1966).
= "You all will tell. When did the birth of these Lakshmi & Narayan take place? Took place 10 years less 5000 years from today."

So clearly birth of Lakshmi and Narayan took place in the year 1976.
Many such Murli points are there about Krishna and Narayan. Our aim, according to Murli, is to become human to Narayan, and not from human to Prince.
If you want more proofs I will post those Murli points about our real aim.
Thank you dear brother.

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Re: Shankar's Part ?

Post by harikrishna » 07 Jan 2016

And, regarding Ram greater than Krishna, 'Ram' is said for God(ShivBaba) here, NOT Ram of Tretayug. But, unfortunately Mr. Dixit has used the Murli points meant for God on himself, and hence it is clear that he is playing role of Hiranyakashyap, is it not?
One who calls himself as God is called Hiranyakashyap. Baba Dixit ji never called himself as God at any time. It was understood by the children that God is playing His role through his body by the knowledge coming from his mouth, because no one can have the ability to give knowledge like God.

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Re: Shankar's Part ?

Post by shivsena » 09 Jan 2016

harikrishna wrote: One who calls himself as God is called Hiranyakashyap. Baba Dixit ji never called himself as God at any time. It was understood by the children that God is playing His role through his body by The Knowledge coming from his mouth, because no one can have the ability to give knowledge like God.
Harikrishna Bhai.....not saying by his mouth openly...but implying the same in his teachings and hundreds of vcds, does it not mean the same ???

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Re: Shankar's Part ?

Post by mbbhat » 23 Jan 2016

A Main reason why Shiv is mixed with Shankar:-

SM 04-12-72(1):- Shiv va Shankar ke mandir jaate hain. Shiv aur Shankar ko bhi ikattaa kiyaa hai. Hai to donon hi alag. Vo nirakar, vo sookshm sharirdhari. Vo moolvatan may rahnevalaa vo sookshmvatan may rahnevaalaa. To baap samjhaate hain mandiron may byel(bull) dikhaate hain. Samajhte hain Shiv Shankar ki byel par savari hai. Ab Shiv ke liye to kahte hain sarvavyaapi hai. Aise nahin kahenge Shiv Shankar sarvavyaapi hain. Ek Parampita Nirakar ko hi kahte hain kuttay, billi, tikkar may sarvavyaapi hai. Shankar ke liye nahin kahenge. Unko to apnaa sharir hai na. Yah sab points hain.

= Bull is shown in temples. They believe Shiv Shankar rode on the Bull. ...

SM 9-5-82(3):- Baap hai niraakaar, gyaan ka sagar. Vah is rath may pravesh karte hain. VAH TO SHIVSHANKAR KAH DETE. AB SHIV TO (BYEL PAR) SAVARI KAR NA SAKE. Isliye phir Shankar kah dete hain. To bachchon ko bahut rahamdil ban_na chahiye. -9-

= Father is incorporeal, ocean of knowledge. He enters in this Chariot. They say shivshankar. NOW- SHIV CANNOT RIDE (ON BULL). HENCE THEN (THEY) HAVE SAID Shankar. So children should become highly merciful.

People had shown Bull as vehicle of Shiv. But, they do not know how Shiv/point enters into Bull (DLR). So, to make the vehicle fit to Shiv, they have shown Shiv as a human soul, Shankar.
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Like, there will be no real Dharmaraj, but someone is kept at that place. Of course, the top souls may play the role of Dharmaraj AUTOMATICALLY, due to their stage. For example, when great personalities move around us, people realize their mistakes automatically. Similarly, the role of Shankar may be similar to that. Due to the subtle stage of such souls, destruction may be triggered.

Yet to churn more. These inputs are for the time being.

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