Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 06 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 154) Another example of Double Standards of PBKs :-
sita wrote:With respect to Bharat lying on the bed on thorns on the picture of the Ladder, you have said that it refers to the country, to the land....
Bharat can refer to land or the ALL the citizens of land. Even when Baba says- Mother India, ShivShaktis, it refers to all the mothers, not just to one personality. So, I have no objection if PBKs believe it to be either land India or for all the Indians or at least the whole of the deity souls (mainly 9 lakhs).

So, I do not see any logic in your point. Baba has CLEARLY said these to 'land' as well - post No. 59b) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... gadh#p8771

BTW, double standard of PBKs is clearly visible here once again. Here, they say- Bharat is not for land, but for a living soul. But, when points of Magadh or Farukkabad comes, they say it is for LAND/Kampil. :laugh:

But, all of their claims are proved wrong even here- there is nothing in their claims regarding farukkaabad - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... abad#p4060

More Murli points on Bharat and Bharatvaasis are here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... adh#p15401

BTW- this topic is about "Flaws in PBK Philosophy", so I may argue to that extent only in this topic. Other errors if any if you find, I believe better put in "Questions for BKs" topic. Anyhow, this is just a suggestion.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 06 Mar 2016

not just to one personality
Why not?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 06 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 155)Faliure to explain about Bharat:-
sita wrote:Why not?
First you should prove it refers to just one person. Can you prove that? Before asking a question, why not prove your stance? Which Murli point says- Bharat refers to a single person?

Now- my views- See LOTS OF Murli POINTS GIVEN IN THE LINK- which all refer to the 'country', and NOT to one 'person'. Even if Baba has said- "Bharat ko maatpita kaa desh khaa jaataa hai= Bharat is called as country of Mother-Father", it means Bharat is the country of Mother-Father (God). It does not mean Maatpita himself is Bharat.

So, Bharat FIRST definitely refers to land, and then to ALL those who reside in the land. So, there would be many. Is it fall and rise of just one person or many?

But- when we say for example Vishnu, it refers to just one person and hence Baba also says- Kingdom of Vishnu, it refers to others as well.

But, in the case of Bharat/Country, it refers to all or many. Else, how would you differentiate between single person and others? If you believe Mr Dixit alone is Bharat, then how can the rest be called as Bharatvaasis? Are they inside him?

That is why when baba says- mothers, shivshaktis, etc, it refers to many. But, when he says- Jagatpita, Jagatmata, it refers to single personality. Simple logic, is it not?

Secret behind Mr Dixit's interpretation of saying Bharat to one soul and himself:- As purpose of Mr. Dixit was to compare between himself and DLR, and to prove himself as number one thorn or downfallen,(so that he can say he only reaches number one highest- as Murli says so) he stated Bharat = a person, not LAND. So, he gave name Krishna to B Baba and also that he belongs to horoscope of Christians. Now, what do PBKs say by this? Do they say DLR is not Bharatvaasi then?

But, more they defame DLR, more they are spitting on sky. Because they all read/depend on even Sakar and Avyakt Murlis for which medium B baba was inevitable and hence throughout the Conf Age they are physically, emotionally, and even intellectually dependent on him. So, they are going to say (inadvertently) that their Bharat (both Dixit, his followers and even land India) is going to depend on Christians throughout Kalpa? Because in THEIR OWN VIEW, what has happened in shooting period would be reflected in the broad 5000 year drama.
-----
During my discussion with splinter group souls, I said- "you all quote Murlis and Vanis, and believe that medium B Baba was/is inevitable, but still believe B Baba is not Prajapita or of high level, believe he was a baby intellect, etc, etc. But, then does it look right that you all depend on B Baba for giving your knowledge? " They were upset, had no reply, and/but I kept myself down to maintain the atmosphere. :cool:

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 06 Mar 2016

It is said in singular - Bharat mata. Many mothers can inculcate the qualities, but numberwise. Number one will be only one. Praise is of the number one.

It is said, I come in Bharat. He comes in the land of Bharat, but he comes in a person. The people who inhabit the land, they are not called Bharat, they are bharatvasi. Those who live in the light of knowledge are bharatvasi.

Magadh desh is also a land and a person, also Farrukhabad.

Many rise and fall, but numberwise, ShivBaba has two children - Brahma and Shankar. The drama has two main actors. It is their story. Brahma is shown in the picture of the Ladder, not fallen that much. The other child is shown in the temples all around the country, in the form of a beggar.

Why would Brahma Baba not be Bharatvasi? He lives in the light of knowledge, is not it?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 06 Mar 2016

he had to propagate that Kings are subordinates to citizens in heaven!
Who has said such thing?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by Roy » 06 Mar 2016

mbbhat wrote:# Flaw No. 152) PBKs now correcting their errors, but in FUTILITY:-

1)Roy soul says- Gitamata to be sister Vedanti. But as per my knowledge, PBKs believe Gitamata to be soul of Kamala Devi. :-?
Your knowledge is behind the times mbbhat Bhai! The knowledge is not static when Ram ShivBaba is revealing more knowledge/secrets each day! Kamala devi is false Gita, Vedanti is true Gita. She explains the meaning of Dada Lekhtraj's visions to him, in 1936/7, and thus the shooting for her becoming his actual mother, in 2036/7 is done!

"Krishna(Brahma Baba) has also taken (spiritual) birth through the womb(-like intellect, of the true Gita Mata aka Sita, in whom the seed of knowledge was planted by Father Shiv, through Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 21.08.03]

"You should not have your sight on any bodily being. Krishna(Brahma Baba) is also a human (with a) child(-like intellect), (who) takes (spiritual) birth from the womb(-like intellect, of the true Gita Mata aka Sita - the seed of knowledge having been implanted in her, by the creator Father, Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 28.08.03]

"The shooting(rehearsal) of the history and geography of the whole world(Broad 5000 year Drama) is taking place(in the unlimited Confluence Age world of Brahmins), just as the shooting(filming) of a drama takes place(in the limited lokik world)." [Mu 17.02.09]

"At this time(during the unlimited Confluence Age), whatever act occurs, shooting(creation of template, for 5000 year broad Drama) takes place. This is called drama which is never created, but exists endlessly. Nothing can be changed in this." [Mu 19.04.78]

mbbhat wrote:2)And - ridiculously, we can see Roy soul has said- there as "Golden Age" Where was Golden Age in 1936?
So, was the Murli point said about birth of Krishna in 1936, and others during Golden Age of 1936? :laugh:
Actually the Murli point refers to birth of Golden Age Krishna. That is why Baba says- "Radha and OTHERS ALSO COME with Krishna"
But, now it seems that PBKs are trying to take half for 1936, and half for Golden Age. Else, how can they explain - "Others come with Radha"- as during 1936. There were just four personalities- as per PBK VIEW.
We can see wrong arguments of PBKs about the same Murli points by PBKs here- error No. 29 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=50566&hilit=bachchi#p50566
The shooting has to take place first in the Confluence Age!
mbbhat wrote:3)According to Mr. Dixit/PBKs when DLR got vision in 1936, it was NOT SPIRITUAL BIRTH. But, if sister Vedanti got vision*, that would be a SPIRITUAL BIRTH! Another CLEAR DOUBLE STANDARD of PBKs. So, if they are certifying the latter as birth, they are INADVERTENTLY CERTIFYING even the former as birth.

But, logically, getting vision is also an actual TRIGGERING POINT, similar to like a soul entering into womb, - that is- like a PHYSICAL EVENT as well. So, when/since FIRST EVER VISION about the real HEAVEN, etc., had occurred to B Baba, his place would be ahead of all others. Also- as said earlier, there is no proof that B baba got clarifications from Sevakram.

* - It is again just only in PBK theory, neither any change has been observed in sister Vedanti during 1976, nor it is supported from Murli points.

The visions have to be understood for spiritual birth to take place... Brahma Baba was confused until Gita Mata(aka Sita) explained them to him. Once he had understanding, he then had complete faith in him becoming Krishna in the forthcoming Golden Age, and thus he took spiritual birth at the hands of Sita (aka Confluence Age Lakshmi).

“Baba(Dada Lekhraj) experienced visions of destruction and establishment. He experienced the accurate visions of the future, but at first he did not understand that he would become this Vishnu.” [Mu 03.07.99]

“Baba(Dada Lekhraj) got confused. He was not able to understand. He went to Varanasi. He used to sit there and draw pictures on the walls. Even then he did not understand anything.” [Mu 03.07.99]
mbbhat wrote:4)Another error is- in the beginning of PBK concept of trimurtis, there had been just FOUR PERSONALITIES -Gitamata, Sevakram, Sister Vedanti and DLR. But, in the END, PBKs have FIVE PERSONALITIES- they include Mama (Om Radhe also) as a hand in their Vishnu. So, according to PBKs, the initial Trimurti is 4, and the final one would be 5, so they are inadvertently implying 4=5.
Also 4 or 5 are THREE murtis!
So, lots of errors and contradictions. But, all of these are perfectly as per drama. So, take it easy.
We know from the Murlis that there are four souls who are the form of Vishnu... But we learn later through Ram ShivBaba, that there are indeed five souls who are actually playing the part of Vishnu at the end...

"This is the Confluence Age, a time for sinful to become pure, is not it? When they (Ram-Sita) become complete(karmateet at the end), then the new Kingdom, new (Confluence Age) era (of Heaven-Ramraj, 111) of Lakshmi & Narayan(Ram & Sita) begins, which is called Vishnupuri(the abode of Vishnu). Sustenance takes place (in the Confluence Age) through the two forms of Lakshmi & Narayan (or Vishnu - i.e. Ram-Sita & Radhe-Krishna)." [Mu 06.09.77]

“Father (Shiv) alone establishes the pure family cult after coming down on earth. That is why four arms have been shown for Vishnu - Parvati(Sita) with Shankar(Ram), and Saraswati(Radhe) with Brahma(Krishna).” (These four souls that at the end of the Confluence Age combine to become the two forms of Vishnu; then become the first family unit of the Golden Age, when Ram-Sita, give birth to Radhe-Krishna, after 2036) [Mu 23.01.90]

"There is no such thing that Shankar-Parvati(Ram-Sita) does not exist at all (in corporeal form in the Confluence Age). This is a corporeal world." [Mu 08.05.70]


N.B. The parts in brackets are my own interpretations, based on my studies of Advanced Knowledge, as taught by the AIVV.

Roy

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by Roy » 06 Mar 2016

mbbhat wrote:# Flaw No. 153) PBKs INADVERTENTLY believe spiritual birth of B Baba was before Mr. Dixit/Sevakram:-
Yes, it is true that in terms of the Confluence Age chronology... Brahma Baba gains faith in his part, through Gita Mata before Ram(Virendra Dev Dixit ji) does, because he had the combination of visions and explanation/clarification that was enough form him. Ram's soul aka Virendra Dev Dixit ji is a more intellectual soul, and there wasn't enough knowledge available for him to gain faith in his part...

"... stayed (with Dada Lekhraj Brahma Baba) for 10 years... (and she - Sita) would go into trance. They(Prajapita-Ram and Sita) were sitting as heads. Baba(i.e. Father Shiv) gave directions (by) entering them. There was so much respect (for these souls)... even Mama(Om Radhe) and Baba(Brahma Krishna) were their students. They also are not here today. There wasn't that much knowledge at that time." [Mu 25.07.67]

However, the shooting process is not quite as simple as that, and there are shooting periods within shooting periods... Ram's soul aka Virendra Dev Dixit ji becomes clear about his part in a 'sub-shooting' period within the Confluence Age, that culminates in him becomimg aware of his part of Confluence Age Narayan, in 1976, which is the end of an Iron Age sub-shooting and the start of a Golden Age sub-shooting. This is what the following Murli points are all about....

“The old (Iron Aged) world has to be certainly destroyed (within the mind-intellect of Prajapita-Ram, by 1976). The preparations are being made. Ten years are remaining.” [Mu 10.10.66]

"You say destruction will be there after 9 years." [Mu 24.11.67]

"Ours is a practical thing, is not it? Within 9 years(1976), the Golden Age, the Kingdom of 100% prosperity and peace, will be established (in subtle intellectual form) in Bharat(Pita aka Prajapita-Ram) without fail." [Mu 30.01.67]

"8 years are hardly a big thing. The whole world is to be finished (for Prajapita-Ram, by 1976 - i.e. he becomes detached from the Iron Aged world intellectually)." [Mu 13.09.68]


N.B. The parts in brackets are my own interpretations, based on my studies of Advanced Knowledge, as taught by the AIVV.

Roy

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 07 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 156) FALSE Gita = JAGADAMBA OF PBKs?!
Roy wrote:Your knowledge is behind the times mbbhat Bhai! The Knowledge is not static when Ram ShivBaba is revealing more knowledge/secrets each day! Kamala devi is false Gita, Vedanti is true Gita. She explains the meaning of Dada Lekhtraj's visions to him, in 1936/7, and thus the shooting for her becoming his actual mother, in 2036/7 is done!
1)FIRST OF ALL, LET IT BE VERY CLEAR TO ALL CONCERNED, that ABSOLUTELY NO Murli POINTS SUPPORT the MISAPPROPRIATED & DELUSIVE claims of the 'INNOCENT' PBKs, TREACHEROUSLY INITIATED & PROPAGATED through/by their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit! Even if we consider them, they are nothing but just only MUTUAL CONTRADICTIONS.
2)PBKs believe First Mother was Kamala Devi and Vedanti(Radha bachchi) is smaller Mother.
3) Radha bachchi received knowledge from Gitamata/kamala Devi in 1936 and then said that to DLR.
So, when she had received it from Kamala Devi, how can Kamala Devi/GitaMata be called as False Gita? And, if she indeed is False Gita, then how can Radha bacchi, who received from 'False Gita' become 'True Gita'???
4)OK, let us still agree. So, is Jagadamba of AIVV FALSE Gita? And, is that the reason why she left -Virendra Dev Dixit and went back to Vaishalaya, and is STILL IN Vaishalaya???
5)Now, PBKs inadvertently imply that their own leader, -Virendra Dev Dixit, was adopted through FALSE Gita (Kamala Devi) - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2112&p=31892#p31892
So, this CLEARLY IMPLIES that whatever comes out of the mouth of -Virendra Dev Dixit MUST BE FALSE Gita, is it not???
6)Now- "the so called Radha bachchi of PBKs" in her next birth, (in their view) is sister Vedanti. She had been just a daughter/child and listening to Murlis spoken through mouth of DLR for SEVERAL YEARS; and during all THIS 'SHOOTING' period, SHE WAS A CHILD and DLR WAS Father or Mother (say whatever you like). So, which 'shooting' is MORE POWERFUL?
7)And- sister Vedanti was mother even to Mr Dixit, during 1969 when he came to Gyan. So, sister Vedanti should be 'mother' of Mr Dixit too, is it not?
8)Again Kamala Devi (Adi Brahma) was 'mother' even to Mr Dixit/Sevakram in 1936. So, she too had done 'SHOOTING' of Mother, then Mr Dixit should have SO MANY MOTHERS, IS IT NOT? He even had to study Sakar Murlis spoken through mouth of DLR in 1969, so even DLR too is 'mother' of Dixit, is it not?

INDEED, your knowledge, as well as the knowledge of your bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, and ALL the PBKs, SEEMS to be VERY MUCH BEHIND THE TIMES, Royal Bhai! The MISREPRESENTED knowledge is EVIDENTLY NOT STATIC when APPARENT or IMPOSTER 'Ram', MASQUERADING as APPARENT 'ShivBaba', is revealing more CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED knowledge/secrets each day!
The TRUE Knowledge is ALSO NOT STATIC, when TRUE Ram or REAL ShivBaba, aka, Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiva, is revealing the subtlest secrets within the ENTIRE EWD(Eternal World Drama), through His 'mukrar-rath' of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, in 'Akar', EVERY SECOND, to the Righteous Children, who are stabilized in their subtle consciousness, and have the LINE of their INTELLECT CLEAR to CATCH such SUBLTE TOUCHINGS, which the bodily guru of the PBKs, -Virendra Dev Dixit, has ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE ABOUT!
If, indeed, the PBKs believe that Kamala devi is FALSE Gita, and Vedanti is TRUE Gita - which is a very good beginning from the PRINCIPLE point of view - then would you NOW, at least, care to consider as to who could be FALSE 'Prajapita Brahma', FALSE 'Shankar', FALSE 'Vishnu', FALSE Confluence Age 'Krishna', FALSE Confluence Age 'Narayan', and last but not least, FALSE 'ShivBaba'. And while we are on this issue, you may also like or care to consider as to who is 'personified' or 'living' Ravan, as compared to your understanding of 'personified' or 'living' 'Bharat'???
The shooting has to take place first in the Confluence Age!
The visions have to be understood for spiritual birth to take place... Brahma Baba was confused until Gita Mata(aka Sita) explained them to him. Once he had understanding, he then had complete faith in him becoming Krishna in the forthcoming Golden Age, and thus he took spiritual birth at the hands of Sita (aka Confluence Age Lakshmi).
9)As already said earlier, there is no proof that DLR had understood meaning of vision through so called Radha bachchi in 1936, but actually go against PBKs'claims. Even if we agree to them,

10)How can it be sure that sister Vedanti had understood or developed that faith in 1976 ?
If she had got faith, why is she still in BKWSU preaching the SAME FALSE Gita - IN PBK VIEW (Murlis ON WHICH NAME DLR IS PUT) - to others?
PBKs believe she is true Gita and also a Mother. Is not she interested to give her sustenance to her children (PBKs)? That too- when their Kamala Devi had left Yagya, or when Mr Dixit was sent to jail, was she not interested to protect AIVV(true Gitapathashala - in PBK view)? Why the so called 'true Gita' is still in false Gitapathashala preaching false Gita?
So- does not this imply that she has neither developed faith in what PBKs say- nor has any knowledge of so called advanced knowledge of PBKs? So how can she be called as Conf. Aged Lakshmi?

11)As already said earlier, since Mr. Dixit had no PBKs in 1976, (until 1980s), and as he had met only one female/sister Vedanti, he had TO DELIBERATELY ANNOUNCE HER NAME AS CONF AGED LAKSHMI- JUST as a scapegoat. Is this not very simple to understand here?
We know from the Murlis that there are four souls who are the form of Vishnu... But we learn later through Ram ShivBaba, that there are indeed five souls who are actually playing the part of Vishnu at the end...
12)No Murli POINT says "there are four souls in Vishnu". It says- four hands represent two souls.

13)Will any PBKs explain how come Kamala Devi is false Gita? And- when this NEW POINT EMERGED IN AIVV? And- what is the reason? Is it that since there is no sign of her returning to AIVV, Mr Dixit said so?

14)Now- again - in the Trimurti of PBKs, Kamala Devi is put at place of Brahma. So, DOES FALSE Gita HAVE PLACE IN THEIR RIGHT Trimurti PICTURE? Or, is Mr Dixit going to replace that seat with someone else in future, let us wait and see.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 07 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 157) PBKs INADVERTENTLY imply - DAUGHTER CREATES MOTHER (or Smaller mother creates Big mother):-

MORE PBKs try to defend falsehood, more they make B Baba even more special, and their own position weaker.
Roy wrote:In fact, Shiva(Father of all souls) is the Husband of the Gita(Sita). He gave (spiritual) birth to Krishna(Brahma Baba aka Dada Lekhraj) through Gita(Sita).” [Mu 14.12.93] - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51078&hilit=husband#p51078
1) One one hand(usually), PBKs say- Krishn bachcha aka B Baba is child of Prajapita/Dixit, but here, PBKs say- B Baba got birth DIRECTLY from Shiv and sister Vedanti (so called Radha bachchi or true Gita).

2)Now, as per PBKs, Shiv gives birth to DLR through sister Vedanti and Shiv gives birth to Dixit/Sevakram through Kamala Devi.

3)And- to give birth to all other children, Shiv uses body or mouth of just Dixit! (and Dixit never plays role of mother practically). So, Father Shiv adopting children through another Father Dixit. -Birth of children without any MOTHER!

4)And- in this way- PBKs have even made God as vyabheechaari - having more than one wife, and number of chariots have kept on changing in their view. PBKs may say- how many wives Shiv OFFICIALLY has in TOTAL?

5)But, in BK view, there is only one Chariot- B Baba. That is, JUST ONLY Shiv, by Himself, does not officially enter Dadi Gulzar or any other. Shiv will always be accompanied by his FIXED Chariot B BABA. Importance of the first/fixed Chariot in BKWSU has never FADED! But, in AIVV, ...?!

6)So, now in PBK view, B baba is mouth born progeny of sister Vedanti, not a mouth born progeny of Mr Dixit?

7)Also- if PBKs believe Krishn bachcha took birth through sister Vedanti (= Radha bachchi) in 1936, then they are again contradicting the Murli point TOTALLY. As the Murli point says- Radha bachchi and children come(take birth ) WITH/AFTER Krishn bachchaa.

8)If Kamala Devi is false Gita, is she NOW still eligible to be called as one of the unlimited Mothers?

9)And- as- NOW- PBKs say- God entered into sister Vedanti (Radha bachchi) in 1936 and created DLR, (or anyhow, they believe sister Vedanti was mother of DLR in 1936).
But, as per PBK view, sister Vedanti is smaller mother, and DLR is Big Mother. ARE NOT PBKs IMPLYING BIG MOTHER GOT BIRTH THROUGH SMALLER MOTHER? or daughter Radha bachchi gave birth to Big mother? and/or Radha gave birth to Krishna? - a child giving birth to another child :laugh:

Unlimited Contradictions again and again.

10)We can see here- PBKs have TOTALLY LOST THEIR ABILITY TO DISCRIMINATE & JUDGE even simple truths, which are open secrets, and are TREACHEROUSLY caught in the clutches of 'personified' or 'living' Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit, just like the devotees of the outer world who are SIMILARLY TRAPPED by their bodily Gurus, under the ACTIVE influence of Ravan or Maya.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by Roy » 07 Mar 2016

mbbhat wrote:# Flaw No. 156) FALSE Gita = JAGADAMBA OF PBKs?!

1)FIRST OF ALL, LET IT BE VERY CLEAR TO ALL CONCERNED, that ABSOLUTELY NO Murli POINTS SUPPORT the MISAPPROPRIATED & DELUSIVE claims of the 'INNOCENT' PBKs, TREACHEROUSLY INITIATED & PROPAGATED through/by their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit! Even if we consider them, they are nothing but just only MUTUAL CONTRADICTIONS.
In your opinion!
2)PBKs believe First Mother was Kamala Devi and Vedanti(Radha bachchi) is smaller Mother.
One is World Mother, the other, Mother India or Bharat Mata.
3) Radha bachchi received knowledge from Gitamata/kamala Devi in 1936 and then said that to DLR.
So, when she had received it from Kamala Devi, how can Kamala Devi/GitaMata be called as False Gita? And, if she indeed is False Gita, then how can Radha bacchi, who received from 'False Gita' become 'True Gita'???

It is the understanding of the clarifications of Brahma Baba's visions, given by Father Shiv through Prajapita-Ram, that makes one(Kamla devi) false Gita and the other(Sister Vedanti) true Gita. Although the accurate narration of the visions was given through (Adi Brahma i.e. Kamla devi soul's body), by Father Shiv... the understanding of the clarifications is different. I believe Sita(i.e. Sister Vedanti's soul) had a clearer understanding and was trusted by Brahma Baba Krishna, when she relayed the clarifications to him via her womb-like intellect. The Confluence Age shooting here in 1936, resulting in the broad drama event of the Golden Age, in 2036, when Sita (aka Confluence Age Lakshmi), gives practical birth to Krishna and then Radha, the first two leaves of the tree.
4)OK, let us still agree. So, is Jagadamba of AIVV FALSE Gita? And, is that the reason why she left -Virendra Dev Dixit and went back to Vaishalaya, and is STILL IN Vaishalaya???
Yes, possibly... In the early days of the Yagya, her affiliation was with Brahma Baba Krishna, this is why she is false Gita (i.e. the God of the Gita is not Krishna). Sister Vedanti worked more closely with Prajapita(Virendra Dev Dixit ji's soul), through whose body the part of Shiv Shankar Bholenath is played at the end, who is eventually recognised by the whole world, to be God in corporeal form. The true corporeal God of the Gita!
5)Now, PBKs inadvertently imply that their own leader, -Virendra Dev Dixit, was adopted through FALSE Gita (Kamala Devi) - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2112&p=31892#p31892
The false relates to the level of understanding and affiliation... The knowledge given through her by Father Shiv was not false, and this is why she becomes the first Brahma and makes Prajapita, the first Brahmin.
So, this CLEARLY IMPLIES that whatever comes out of the mouth of -Virendra Dev Dixit MUST BE FALSE Gita, is it not???
Not at all! Father Shiv speaks through Virendra Dev Dixit ji aka Ram, and he churns on the knowledge himself... he never takes another's opinion. What Prajapita-Ram(Virendra Dev Dixit ji's soul) heard in 1936, came straight from Father Shiv... there was no mixing done by Kamla Devi's soul in this.
6)Now- "the so called Radha bachchi of PBKs" in her next birth, (in their view) is sister Vedanti. She had been just a daughter/child and listening to Murlis spoken through mouth of DLR for SEVERAL YEARS; and during all THIS 'SHOOTING' period, SHE WAS A CHILD and DLR WAS Father or Mother (say whatever you like). So, which 'shooting' is MORE POWERFUL?
All shootings are powerful and necessary for the broad drama to unfold. Sister Vedanti has to become a BK again in her next birth to get more knowledge... The lack of it being the reason she left the Yagya, in 1947. This is the time Dada Lekhraj finally became a Brahma himself, when Father Shiv finally enters him to begin narrating the Murlis directly, in Karachi, and to establish the Brahmin Religion. It was only after this event, that the BKIVV institution became so named.
7)And- sister Vedanti was mother even to Mr Dixit, during 1969 when he came to Gyan. So, sister Vedanti should be 'mother' of Mr Dixit too, is it not?
I don't think so... She could not convince him about the knowledge, and it was only through his own churnings that he finally became fully enlightened, in 1976. However, she was the one who had the purity of conviction to allow him to take Murlis away and read them... the other BKs did not want to do this.
8)Again Kamala Devi (Adi Brahma) was 'mother' even to Mr Dixit/Sevakram in 1936. So, she too had done 'SHOOTING' of Mother, then Mr Dixit should have SO MANY MOTHERS, IS IT NOT? He even had to study Sakar Murlis spoken through mouth of DLR in 1969, so even DLR too is 'mother' of Dixit, is it not?
Every Brahmin has a corporeal spiritual mother, except Adi Brahma Jagadamba. Every Brahmin has a corporeal spiritual Father, except Prajapita-Ram.
INDEED, your knowledge, as well as the knowledge of your bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, and ALL the PBKs, SEEMS to be VERY MUCH BEHIND THE TIMES, Royal Bhai! The MISREPRESENTED knowledge is EVIDENTLY NOT STATIC when APPARENT or IMPOSTER 'Ram', MASQUERADING as APPARENT 'ShivBaba', is revealing more CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED knowledge/secrets each day!
Again, in your opinion! We shall see who is right and wrong, come Revelation... i.e. Trimurti Shivjayanti
The TRUE Knowledge is ALSO NOT STATIC, when TRUE Ram or REAL ShivBaba, aka, Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiva, is revealing the subtlest secrets within the ENTIRE EWD(Eternal World Drama), through His 'mukrar-rath' of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, in 'Akar', EVERY SECOND, to the Righteous Children, who are stabilized in their subtle consciousness, and have the LINE of their INTELLECT CLEAR to CATCH such SUBLTE TOUCHINGS, which the bodily guru of the PBKs, -Virendra Dev Dixit, has ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE ABOUT!
OK my dear... Please give us the knowledge you have received via touchings, that explains how the drama is going to be played out PRACTICALLY over the next few years. A few dates might be nice too! ;-)
If, indeed, the PBKs believe that Kamala devi is FALSE Gita, and Vedanti is TRUE Gita - which is a very good beginning from the PRINCIPLE point of view - then would you NOW, at least, care to consider as to who could be FALSE 'Prajapita Brahma', FALSE 'Shankar', FALSE 'Vishnu', FALSE Confluence Age 'Krishna', FALSE Confluence Age 'Narayan', and last but not least, FALSE 'ShivBaba'. And while we are on this issue, you may also like or care to consider as to who is 'personified' or 'living' Ravan, as compared to your understanding of 'personified' or 'living' 'Bharat'???
I think there are a few pretenders out there, but as i said above... It won't be that long imo, before we all find out who is right and who is wrong.
9)As already said earlier, there is no proof that DLR had understood meaning of vision through so called Radha bachchi in 1936, but actually go against PBKs'claims. Even if we agree to them,
In your opinion!
10)How can it be sure that sister Vedanti had understood or developed that faith in 1976 ?
If she had got faith, why is she still in BKWSU preaching the SAME FALSE Gita - IN PBK VIEW (Murlis ON WHICH NAME DLR IS PUT) - to others?
PBKs believe she is true Gita and also a Mother. Is not she interested to give her sustenance to her children (PBKs)? That too- when their Kamala Devi had left Yagya, or when Mr Dixit was sent to jail, was she not interested to protect AIVV(true Gitapathashala - in PBK view)? Why the so called 'true Gita' is still in false Gitapathashala preaching false Gita?
So- does not this imply that she has neither developed faith in what PBKs say- nor has any knowledge of so called advanced knowledge of PBKs? So how can she be called as Conf. Aged Lakshmi?
She has not yet developed enough faith/courage in the part of Ram ShivBaba, to break away from her BK shackles, but she will imo. She is the Queen bee who will eventually go to Ram ShivBaba, and take her hive with her.
11)As already said earlier, since Mr. Dixit had no PBKs in 1976, (until 1980s), and as he had met only one female/sister Vedanti, he had TO DELIBERATELY ANNOUNCE HER NAME AS CONF AGED LAKSHMI- JUST as a scapegoat. Is this not very simple to understand here?
In your opinion!
12)No Murli POINT says "there are four souls in Vishnu". It says- four hands represent two souls.
It is your right to ignore clear hints in the Murlis regarding this.
13)Will any PBKs explain how come Kamala Devi is false Gita? And- when this NEW POINT EMERGED IN AIVV? And- what is the reason? Is it that since there is no sign of her returning to AIVV, Mr Dixit said so?
Not sure/cannot remember when the point emerged exactly, but see above for my understanding of the matter...
14)Now- again - in the Trimurti of PBKs, Kamala Devi is put at place of Brahma. So, DOES FALSE Gita HAVE PLACE IN THEIR RIGHT Trimurti PICTURE? Or, is Mr Dixit going to replace that seat with someone else in future, let us wait and see.
Brahma Baba will be sitting in Kamala Devi during Trimurti Shiv Jayanti... their connection is eternal. There is a Murli point that talks about Krishna Brahma Baba being hidden in the Trimurti picture, but i cannot find it presently.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by Roy » 07 Mar 2016

mbbhat wrote:# Flaw No. 157) PBKs INADVERTENTLY imply - DAUGHTER CREATES MOTHER (or Smaller mother creates Big mother):-
MORE PBKs try to defend falsehood, more they make B Baba even more special, and their own position weaker.

1) One one hand(usually), PBKs say- Krishn bachcha aka B Baba is child of Prajapita/Dixit, but here, PBKs say- B Baba got birth DIRECTLY from Shiv and sister Vedanti (so called Radha bachchi or true Gita).
Who gives birth directly to the child, mother or Father? Father Shiv sows the seed of knowledge in Sita(true Gita Mata), via Prajapita-Ram... Ram & Sita therefore become the practical parents of Krishna Brahma Baba in the Golden Age... The Murli point/s about Ram and Sita being first class servant and maid servant to Radha and Krishna, hints at this.
2)Now, as per PBKs, Shiv gives birth to DLR through sister Vedanti and Shiv gives birth to Dixit/Sevakram through Kamala Devi
.
I believe that is a correct understanding...
3)And- to give birth to all other children, Shiv uses body or mouth of just Dixit! (and Dixit never plays role of mother practically). So, Father Shiv adopting children through another Father Dixit. -Birth of children without any MOTHER!
Both Ram & Sita are present at the beginning of the Yagya, as is Adi Brahma Jagadamba... These are the children who Father Shiv uses to teach Brahma/Mama etc. They are all Brahmas(Mothers) as Baba is entering them as per the Murli points on this subject...
4)And- in this way- PBKs have even made God as vyabheechaari - having more than one wife, and number of chariots have kept on changing in their view. PBKs may say- how many wives Shiv OFFICIALLY has in TOTAL?
You need to read the Murli points on this subject that have been posted on this forum on numerous occasions. There are 5 Brahmas in total, although i am not totally sure who the 5th is. It may be Ram playing the role twice, through 2 separate bodies.
5)But, in BK view, there is only one Chariot- B Baba. That is, JUST ONLY Shiv, by Himself, does not officially enter Dadi Gulzar or any other. Shiv will always be accompanied by his FIXED Chariot B BABA. Importance of the first/fixed Chariot in BKWSU has never FADED! But, in AIVV, ...?!
There are Murli points that clearly state that there is more than one Brahma, and some of these are females...
6)So, now in PBK view, B baba is mouth born progeny of sister Vedanti, not a mouth born progeny of Mr Dixit?
Who are you the mouth born progeny of? Did you get the knowledge directly from Brahma Baba?... But the knowledge you received came through Brahma originally, and you are now studying those teachings...
7)Also- if PBKs believe Krishn bachcha took birth through sister Vedanti (= Radha bachchi) in 1936, then they are again contradicting the Murli point TOTALLY. As the Murli point says- Radha bachchi and children come(take birth ) WITH/AFTER Krishn bachchaa.
The Radha mentioned is Mama(Saraswati Jagadamaba), not Sita(Gita Mata aka Sister Vedanti).
8)If Kamala Devi is false Gita, is she NOW still eligible to be called as one of the unlimited Mothers?
She is one of the 5 Brahmas, whose affiliation is to the Krishna Brahma Baba in the beginning(hence false Gita), until the end, when she becomes complete, and truly recognises, Ram ShivBaba aka Shiv Shankar Bholenath.
9)And- as- NOW- PBKs say- God entered into sister Vedanti (Radha bachchi) in 1936 and created DLR, (or anyhow, they believe sister Vedanti was mother of DLR in 1936).
But, as per PBK view, sister Vedanti is smaller mother, and DLR is Big Mother. ARE NOT PBKs IMPLYING BIG MOTHER GOT BIRTH THROUGH SMALLER MOTHER? or daughter Radha bachchi gave birth to Big mother? and/or Radha gave birth to Krishna? - a child giving birth to another child :laugh:

Unlimited Contradictions again and again.
Lekhraj Kirpalani is the true Jagadamba by way of being the soul who imbibed the virtues of tolerance and love more than any other soul... This is the role Father Shiv played through him up until 1968/9... But he is not as elevated as Sister Vedanti, who becomes complete at the end whilst remaining in her body... an achievement Brahma Baba Krishna, her child in the Golden Age, doesn't attain.
10)We can see here- PBKs have TOTALLY LOST THEIR ABILITY TO DISCRIMINATE & JUDGE even simple truths, which are open secrets, and are TREACHEROUSLY caught in the clutches of 'personified' or 'living' Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit, just like the devotees of the outer world who are SIMILARLY TRAPPED by their bodily Gurus, under the ACTIVE influence of Ravan or Maya.
These are your opinions, but i obviously don't agree with them or your reasoning in coming to them... We shall see who is right in a few short years.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 08 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 158) PBKs inadvertently say Mr. Dixit is not real Prajapita:-
Roy wrote:Every Brahmin has a corporeal spiritual mother, except Adi Brahma Jagadamba. Every Brahmin has a corporeal spiritual Father, except Prajapita-Ram.
1)A Murli point says- Prajapita is Anaadi (has no beginning). Post No. 177- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... adi#p14927

If Prajapita had to be anaadi, he can neither have any corporeal Father nor corporeal mother. But, PBKs believe Mr. Sevakram took birth through MOUTH of Adi Brahma (Kamala Devi) and believe Kamala Devi(False Gita) as mother of him too.. This proves Mr Dixit cannot be anaadi.

2) A Murli point also says- "there are two unlimited fathers and well as two unlimited mothers"- Point No. 22 , Post No. 07 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... eal+#p4055

As per PBKs, the two unlimited fathers are Shiva and Dixit, and the two unlimited mothers are Kamala Devi and B Baba. How B Baba is unlimited mother - in PBK view? Can PBKs explain?

Why do PBKs give title unlimited mother to B Baba, even when PBKs believe he does not come in first 4.5 lakh souls and both Kamala Devi and Radha bachchi had taken birth earlier to him, as well as Radha bachchi had already done the shooting of playing role of mother to Lekhraj Kirpalani in 1936 itself?

In BK view- it is simple and clear. Shiv is eternal Father. Prajapita is both first corporeal Father and mother. So, Prajapita has neither corporeal Father, nor corporeal mother, so anaadi in practical.
Prajapita does not get title mother externally, (since he is male), so he is gupt, and the title mother externally goes to Mama (Om Radhe). So, Mama is mother to ALL the souls (except B Baba), hence unlimited. And- results of both these unlimited Father and mothers (B Baba and Mama) had been announced in advance and would be top most souls in drama. So, the unlimited is right in all the ways. No one else can he higher than them - "in BK view"

3)But, in PBK philosophy, the unlimited Father Dixit has a corporeal mother too, and that mother is false one/Gita! still the false mother has the eligibility to own title UNLIMITED! Good logic, is it not?

4)And- in PBK view- the smaller mother sister Vedanti is superior to both the unlimited mothers- Kamala Devi and B Baba! But, not unlimited!

And- again- there are others souls between Dixit and Kamala Devi. Kamala Devi's rank is much below than his. But, no one else of them is eligible for the title unlimited!
----------------------


# Flaw No. 159) PBKs inadvertently imply- Mr Dixit is not fixed Chariot:-

5) PBKs inadvertently imply- Mr Dixit is not fixed Chariot. A fixed Chariot means its value should never come down. In BKWSU, value of B baba never came down. Before 1969, B Baba was the Chariot. Even after 1969, (as per BK view) in Gulzar Dadi, it is not just Shiv entering, both Shiv and B Baba enters. Even after 1969, visions of B baba occur to others, not of Gulzar Dadi.
Also-in BKWSU, no knowledge comes without media of B Baba. Before 1969, it was through his physical mouth, and after 1969, he himself would be present in Dadi Gulzar's body and also will speak through her mouth.

But, in AIVV, in PBK view their Chariot Sevakram LOST importance in 1942. It got importance only in 1976 or practically only in 1980s. The Chariot was (and also is) totally dependent on Sakar Murlis spoken through mouth of Lekhraj Kirpalani.
Most important thing is- PBKs believe God ADOPTS through different personalities/mouths- at least THREE.
--They believe Shiv used mouth of Kamala Devi to create Dixit/SEvakram and hence Dixit is her child, or she is mother of Dixit. And
--Shiv used mouth of Sevakram to create Kamala Devi and Radha bachchi, and both of them are children of Dixit/SEvakram. And-
--Shiv created Krishn bachchaa through mouth of Radha bachchi(sister Vedanti).

So, if creation is done through different mouths, how can any one of these three personalities be called as FIXED chariots? No one is fixed there


6)Also- we can see double standard in the argument of PBKs.
Who are you the mouth born progeny of? Did you get The Knowledge directly from Brahma Baba?... But The Knowledge you received came through Brahma originally, and you are now studying those teachings...
Then why do PBKs say- as B baba has left in 1969, how can BKs be called as mouth born? Is not the knowledge available after 1969 as well?
The Radha mentioned is Mama(Saraswati Jagadamaba), not Sita(Gita Mata aka Sister Vedanti).
7)Again wrong argument. In the FIRST INCIDENT -in 1936 in PBK view, there were just four souls. No use by either mixing or doing corrections with double standards. It is already like milk fallen on the floor.
Lekhraj Kirpalani is the true Jagadamba by way of being the soul who imbibed the virtues of tolerance and love more than any other soul...
8)See- Jagadamba, means world mother, not just virtuous. In Yagya, there were just some thousand of souls till 1969. So, how come Lekhraj Kirpalani fits for the title Jagadamba - "in PBK view" And- in PBK view, it was soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani who was cause when Mr Dixit slapped a sister during Amrit Vela :laugh: Also- he creates eclipse to the Jagadamba Kamala Devi. So, are these things- virtuous - in PBK or any other view? Moreoever, PBKs also call B Baba as a ghost. So, a ghost is World Mother or virtuous?

9)So, summarizing- in PBK VIEW- a GHOST an FALSE LIVING Gita are the two UNLIMITED MOTHERS?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by Roy » 08 Mar 2016

mbbhat wrote:# Flaw No. 158) PBKs inadvertently say Mr. Dixit is not real Prajapita:-
1)A Murli point says- Prajapita is Anaadi (has no beginning). Post No. 177- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... adi#p14927
If Prajapita had to be anaadi, he can neither have any corporeal Father nor corporeal mother. But, PBKs believe Mr. Sevakram took birth through MOUTH of Adi Brahma (Kamala Devi) and believe Kamala Devi(False Gita) as mother of him too.. This proves Mr Dixit cannot be anaadi.
Prajapita aka Ram's soul has many mothers and fathers throughout the drama... But what makes him anaadi, is that he is the only soul who spends the full 5000 years of the drama in a corporeal body... not a day less, which is the reason why Brahma Baba cannot be the true Prajapita.

"Father sits and explains, ‘whom do I enter into?’ I enter into the body of that soul only (to play the role of the practical Father), which takes complete 84 births. Not even a day less (of corporeal life)." [Mu 15.10.69]
2) A Murli point also says- "there are two unlimited fathers and well as two unlimited mothers"- Point No. 22 , Post No. 07 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... eal+#p4055
As per PBKs, the two unlimited fathers are Shiva and Dixit, and the two unlimited mothers are Kamala Devi and B Baba. How B Baba is unlimited mother - in PBK view? Can PBKs explain?
I have yet to see the word unlimited used in reference to a mother... Could you kindly check to make sure your information is correct, and that you haven't mistakenly inferred this to be the case! Mothers are of the earth, attached... i don't think the word unlimited applies in their case! Brahma Baba Krishna is still attached to the Brahmin children, which is why he continues to visit Mt Abu to teach them dharna, until he becomes complete(unattached) that is, then things will change!
3)But, in PBK philosophy, the unlimited Father Dixit has a corporeal mother too, and that mother is false one/Gita! still the false mother has the eligibility to own title UNLIMITED! Good logic, is it not?
See response above...
4)And- in PBK view- the smaller mother sister Vedanti is superior to both the unlimited mothers- Kamala Devi and B Baba! But, not unlimited!
And- again- there are others souls between Dixit and Kamala Devi. Kamala Devi's rank is much below than his. But, no one else of them is eligible for the title unlimited!
I don't think Vedanti is superior to Kamala Devi, as she is a bead of the 108 Rudra Mala. No one in the Confluence Age has spent more time in the company of Ram ShivBaba than she has, and even now she cannot forget him. She will return to Baba when the time is right, when Brahma Baba leads the way in this! Brahma Baba is key to establishing heaven on earth... because until he beomes complete, no-one else can either.

----------------------
# Flaw No. 159) PBKs inadvertently imply- Mr Dixit is not fixed Chariot:-
5) PBKs inadvertently imply- Mr Dixit is not fixed Chariot. A fixed Chariot means its value should never come down. In BKWSU, value of B baba never came down. Before 1969, B Baba was the Chariot. Even after 1969, (as per BK view) in Gulzar Dadi, it is not just Shiv entering, both Shiv and B Baba enters. Even after 1969, visions of B baba occur to others, not of Gulzar Dadi.
Also-in BKWSU, no knowledge comes without media of B Baba. Before 1969, it was through his physical mouth, and after 1969, he himself would be present in Dadi Gulzar's body and also will speak through her mouth.

But, in AIVV, in PBK view their Chariot Sevakram LOST importance in 1942. It got importance only in 1976 or practically only in 1980s. The Chariot was (and also is) totally dependent on Sakar Murlis spoken through mouth of Lekhraj Kirpalani.
Most important thing is- PBKs believe God ADOPTS through different personalities/mouths- at least THREE.
--They believe Shiv used mouth of Kamala Devi to create Dixit/SEvakram and hence Dixit is her child, or she is mother of Dixit. And
--Shiv used mouth of Sevakram to create Kamala Devi and Radha bachchi, and both of them are children of Dixit/SEvakram. And-
--Shiv created Krishn bachchaa through mouth of Radha bachchi(sister Vedanti).
So, if creation is done through different mouths, how can any one of these three personalities be called as FIXED chariots? No one is fixed there
The term fixed is used to express the situation that Virendra Dev Dixit ji soul's part, is to be the Chariot playing the role of Prajapita, in the beginning, middle and end of the Confluence Age drama... But no soul can span 100 years of the Confluence Age, without a change of costume. Brahma Baba kindly fills in during his years of absence from the Yagya!
6)Also- we can see double standard in the argument of PBKs.
Who are you the mouth born progeny of? Did you get The Knowledge directly from Brahma Baba?... But The Knowledge you received came through Brahma originally, and you are now studying those teachings...
Then why do PBKs say- as B baba has left in 1969, how can BKs be called as mouth born? Is not the knowledge available after 1969 as well?
To be a mouthborn progeny of Brahma, means to accept and follow the teachings given through Brahma's mouth by Father Shiv... It means to give importance to his teachings. There are many so called Brahmins, who are more attached to Brahma Baba than the teachings that came from his mouth... and even today we see the Bhakti souls who adore the Dadis, and the teachings of the Murli are very much secondary, or not important at all.
The Radha mentioned is Mama(Saraswati Jagadamaba), not Sita(Gita Mata aka Sister Vedanti).
7)Again wrong argument. In the FIRST INCIDENT -in 1936 in PBK view, there were just four souls. No use by either mixing or doing corrections with double standards. It is already like milk fallen on the floor.
The four souls mentioned in the Murlis who are the dual form of Vishnu, are Brahma, Mama, Ram(Shankar) and Sita(Parvati)... there is no mention of Kamla devi in this. However, we understand from the more up to date teachings in the AIVV, that Vishnu is comprised of 5 souls... The three souls who Father Shiv initially instructs about the visions of Brahma Baba, and then Brahma and Mama(Radha), who come to learn these facts, directly from true Gita Mata(aka Sister Vedanti), their corporeal mother in the Golden Age.
Lekhraj Kirpalani is the true Jagadamba by way of being the soul who imbibed the virtues of tolerance and love more than any other soul...
8)See- Jagadamba, means world mother, not just virtuous. In Yagya, there were just some thousand of souls till 1969. So, how come Lekhraj Kirpalani fits for the title Jagadamba - "in PBK view" And- in PBK view, it was soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani who was cause when Mr Dixit slapped a sister during Amrit Vela :laugh: Also- he creates eclipse to the Jagadamba Kamala Devi. So, are these things- virtuous - in PBK or any other view? Moreoever, PBKs also call B Baba as a ghost. So, a ghost is World Mother or virtuous?
is not a soul in a subtle body a ghost??? Then please tell me, what is a ghost?

"Even ghosts come and enter. However, that is a (human) soul, isn’t it (not the Supreme Soul)? When the ghost performs its task, then the part of that soul (in whose body the ghost has entered) comes to a halt.” [Mu 12.07.73]

World Mother means mother who serves souls of all faiths... Brahma Baba invited souls into the Yagya who were of other religions and persuasions, and it was Ram's soul aka Prajapita who opposed this in the beginning, and this caused friction within the Yagya...

"When was the flame of destruction ignited? From the beginning of Yagya itself the flame of destruction was ignited from the Yagya Khund along with the flame of establishment. Who were instrumental for this? Brahma (Baba), Father (of Humanity-Prajapita-Ram) and Brahmin children(leftist opposing Vidharmis) also became instrumental in igniting this flame of destruction.” [Av 03.02.74]

"People of other religions came (i.e. Vidharmis or opposing souls, were allowed into the Yagya, by the soft accomodating mother, Dada Lekhraj). So look, the partition of India took place before the eyes of the Father(Prajapita-Ram, who saw this happening, and confronted Dada Lekhraj about it, but the practise continued. This process was mirrored in the broad drama, by the partition that took place in India)." [Mu 30.09.71]

9)So, summarizing- in PBK VIEW- a GHOST an FALSE LIVING Gita are the two UNLIMITED MOTHERS?
Not sure about the unlimited part, but otherwise yes... You may note that when Brahma Baba Krishna finally becomes complete - Brahma so Vishnu, it is because he finally understands that he is not the corporeal God of the Gita(i.e. the Murlis having been imparted through him, does not make him corporeal God of the Gita), then too, will false Gita Mata(Kamla Devi) realise, that this is actually Shiv Shankar Bholenath aka Ram ShivBaba. Brahma Baba Krishna is no longer a ghost at this point and he sheds his subtle body and enters Kamla Devi, and together they play the part of Brahma Jagadamba...

"Supreme Soul Shiv through Prajapita(aka Ram), transforms the Night of Brahma into the Day of Brahma." [Mu 27.02.74]

"Now it's Brahma's night. So it is night for Brahma(Baba Krishna) also, is not it? Then, when he becomes Vishnu (at the end, when he finally accepts absolutely, that the God of the Gita in corporeal form, is Shiv Shankar Bholenath), it will be day." [Mu 15.10.77]


Roy

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 09 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 160) Just double standards and futile arguments, as can be expected from the PBKs and their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, AS USUAL, NOTHING NEW!
Roy wrote:Prajapita aka Ram's soul has many mothers and fathers throughout the drama...
1)Then why do PBKs quote the Murli point, now and then, which says- "Even Brahma has a Father" - and endeavour to TREACHEROUSLY infer it refers to their FALSE 'Prajapita' of an embodied human soul (even when it CLEARLY REFERS to INCORPOREAL Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God)?
But what makes him anaadi, is that he is the only soul who spends the full 5000 years of the drama in a corporeal body... not a day less, which is the reason why Brahma Baba cannot be the true Prajapita.
2)Sometimes Baba speaks approximately - Examples- here- viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2012 and here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... eek#p11851

Even the soul of a DoG can spend the FULL 5000 years of the drama in a corporeal body of a DoG, including the FULL period of the Conf Age. So would that imply that the soul of the DoG is the 'TRUE' 'Prajapita'???
The FACT is that all DoGs would OBVIOUSLY CONSIDER such a DoG to be THEIR 'True Prajapita', since a DoG can ONLY relate to a DoG, and owing to their CORRUPTED & INVERTED INTELLECTS, they can also consider that THEIR DoG, whom THEY BELIEVE to be the 'True Pajapita', is the 'TRUE PRAJAPITA' of the WHOLE of CREATION, including TRUE & RIGHTEOUS HUMAN BEINGS, and ALL OTHER 'SPECIES', on the face of the earth!
So, in this CONTEXT, NO ONE can CONTEST the STANCE adopted by such DoGs, and they should be left ALONE to ENJOY THEIR WORLD in 'PEACE', until the APPOINTED HOUR!

The INVERTED INTELLECTS of the PBKs and their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, CANNOT EVEN APPRECIATE the SIMPLE FACT, that at NO TIME in Ravan Rajya or the Night of the Cycle, can there be any SINGLE INCIDENT when the HeadMaster or the Principal of a School or College can be ON LEAVE or ABSENT for a period of MORE THAN 20 Years, and can STILL be CONSIDERED to be the PERMANENT HeadMaster or Principal of that School or College. Only the CORRUPTED & INVERTED INTELLECTS of the PBKs can assimilate such EVIDENT 'GARBAGE', and continue to propagate such UTTER 'GIBBERISH', initiated by their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit. Even if their bodily guru has been in a corporeal body throughout the Cycle, they TOTALLY FAIL to Re-Cognize or APPRECIATE, that if he has FAILED to be the 'Chariot' of God even for ONE SINGLE DAY, (LEAVE ALONE MORE THAN 20 Years), he cannot be considered to be the PERMANENT 'Chariot' of God, in the Conf Age! THIS SINGLE POINT IS ENOUGH TO CLEARLY DEMONSTRATE THE UTTER STUPIDITY OF -Virendra Dev Dixit AND THE BLIND FOLLOWERS, PBKs - WHO ARE INADVERTENTLY 'CERTIFYING', THEMSELVES, THAT THEY HAVE COMPLETELY DEGRADED INTELLECTS!

3)Moreover, there is no proof that Mr Dixit has remained/would remain in corporeal world(CW) throughout the 5000 yrs. OK, even if we believe it, it again loses value. Because even such a soul depends or has some other corporeal personality as mother (that too, one who is FALSE Gita)? Drama and the title 'ANAADI' would look INAPPROPRIATE. Obviously ONLY FALSE or APPARENT 'ShivBaba', or Ravan can initiate such FALSE 'Gita' through their FALSE 'personified' or 'living' Gita, to give 'birth' to FALSE 'Prajapita Brahma' or FALSE 'Shankar'; and OBVIOUSLY Ravan or APPARENT 'ShivBaba' is not going to declare his TRUE identity, since Ravan has to ESSENTIALLY play the role of the 'Godly FORM' or 'ISHWARIYA RUP' of Maya, PERFECTLY, AS PER DRAMA PLAN - NOTHING NEW AT ALL!

4)Still if we agree with PBKs, sister Vedanti also would be in CW for the whole 5000 yrs, is it not? -"in PBK view". But, Murli point says anaadi only to Prajapita.
And- if PBKs believe sister Vedanti would not remain in CW for the whole 5000 yrs, it again looks inappropriate, as there would not be a mate for Mr Dixit.

5)Also- the Murli point said in Error No. 18- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=49631&hilit=churpur#p49631 TOTALLY RULES OUT all the claims of PBKs. PBKs may interpret it in anyway, like my cock has three legs, it is left to them.
I have yet to see the word unlimited used in reference to a mother...
6) See here- and the next couple of posts. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2552&p=50512&hilit=unlimited#p50512

There are both confusion as well as illogical things. PBKs have shown more than two unlimited mothers - mostly while trying to do juggling exercises. What I have taken from there is- "If true Jagadamba is Kamala Devi (in PBK view), then the two unlimited mothers should be Kamala Devi and B baba (who is believed to enter in her)", and PBKs usually call even B baba as Big Mother and usually say to PBKs- we have both mother and Father in AIVV, and clearly say- Shiv played role of Mother through DLR.

PBKs may also say in future that DLR is also just title-holder Jagadamba, like he was just title-holder Prajapita. [You may correct, as you like, and give your comment.]
I don't think Vedanti is superior to Kamala Devi, as she is a bead of the 108 Rudra Mala. No one in the Confluence Age has spent more time in the company of Ram ShivBaba than she has, and even now she cannot forget him. She will return to Baba when the time is right, ...
Yes, possibly... In the early days of the Yagya, her (kamal devi) affiliation was with Brahma Baba Krishna, this is why she is false Gita (i.e. the God of the Gita is not Krishna). Sister Vedanti worked more closely with Prajapita (Veerendra Dev Dixit ji's soul), through whose body the part of Shiv Shankar Bholenath is played at the end, who is eventually recognised by the whole world, to be God in corporeal form. The true corporeal God of the Gita!
7)Only mutual contradictions or just once again juggling exercises, which the CORRUPTED & INVERTED INTELLECTS of the PBKs are NOT ABLE TO READILY RE-COGNIZE BY THEMSELVES AT ALL. [PBKs also believe True Gita(Vedanti sister) does not come in RudrMala, but false Gita gets seat in it!]
The term fixed is used to express the situation that Veerendra Dev Dixit ji soul's part, is to be the Chariot playing the role of Prajapita, in the beginning, middle and end of the Confluence Age drama...
8)As said all above as well as here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50874&hilit=shooting#p50874
But no soul can span 100 years of the Confluence Age, without a change of costume. Brahma Baba kindly fills in during his years of absence from the Yagya!
9)Any greatness in soul of Prajapita - "their own view" who was out of Yagya and was in Kumbhkarna sleep playing role of thorn while ShivBaba was delivering nectar of knowledge to his beloved children? - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50820&hilit=thorn#p50820
Not sure about the unlimited part, but otherwise yes... You may note that when Brahma Baba Krishna finally becomes complete - Brahma so Vishnu, it is because he finally understands that he is not the corporeal God of the Gita(i.e. the Murlis having imparted through him, does not make him corporeal God of the Gita), then too, will false Gita Mata(Kamla Devi) realise, that this is actually Shiv Shankar Bholenath aka Ram ShivBaba. Brahma Baba Krishna is no longer a ghost at this point and he sheds his subtle body and enters Kamla Devi, and together they play the part of Brahma Jagadamba...
10)PBKs believe when B baba becomes complete, the Conf Age would be over, he will leave body of Shankar, and new era will begin. Are PBKs going to say- B baba will leave his subtle body and enter Kamala Devi as just a 'point of light', and then play part of Jagadamba? And- after one reaches perfection, it would be revelation- ('TOO LATE' BOARD). Are they going to play role of Jagadambas, in practical, only after the 'too late' board?

Whatever it is- in PBK view, one of their greatest personalities - Gitamata would be a false Gita until almost end, and will not be able to realize or accept God or his role. Even B Baba, or sister Vedanti ARE YET TO REALIZE that Mr. Dixit is the true Chariot, and will realize and accept it only in almost end. Then after that will it not take at least few years for them to put PRACTICAL/RIGHT EFFORT AND BECOME COMPLETE?[/b]

ON THE OTHER HAND, in PBK view- Mr Dixit and PBKs have ALREADY understood that the real Chariot is Mr Dixit, and still the top most soul, Mr. Dixit, has not become complete AS YET. He is still under control of the Bull/Ghost, and all of them ARE STILL waiting for the 'FALSE GITAS' to return. Their effort or FUTURE, FULLY DEPENDS ON THESE FALSE/WEAK PERSONALITIES. ALSO, all these - the so called realized or advanced knowledge party souls or practical PBKs - who believe they have realized the role of Chariot MUCH EARLIER than these personalities - (false Gita, or true Gita who is considered as 'cowardice') and ghost, STILL CONSIDER them to be their UNLIMITED MOTHERS! And- it is the THESE WEAK SOULS who get place in their Trimurti. This is EQUIVALENT to implying that the body-conscious embodied souls FULLY Re-Cognize God ALREADY, WHILE INCORPOREAL God DOES NOT Re-Cognize Himself, AS YET!!! What a TRAGIC philosophy indeed. Let them SAVOUR it and enjoy to their FULLEST satisfaction, WHILE THE CAN - WHY NOT? CARRY ON CLEO!

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 09 Mar 2016

Flaw No. 161)One more Simple example, to adequately demonstrate the LLU of PBKs, and their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit
Roy wrote:is not a soul in a subtle body a ghost??? Then please tell me, what is a ghost?

Corporeal Body can be both impure (that of Kaliyugi humans) and pure (that of deities). Similarly, subtle body can be both (BLACK-IMPURE)GHOST or (WHITE-PURE)ANGEL. Simple open secret. [Or, are PBKs going to say- even in heaven - all the bodies are born through vice/lust?]
But, PBKs cannot COMPREHEND this SIMPLE TRUTH owing to their INVERTED INTELLECTS, and they SHOULD NOT BE EXPECTED TO COMPREHEND SAME, AS LONG AS THEIR INTELLECTS REMAIN INVERTED, UNDER THE ACTIVE INFLUENCE OF THEIR BODILY GURU, -Virendra Dev Dixit. Because jaisee drushti, vaisee srushti. = 'AS IS THE VISION, SO IS THE WORLD'

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM IF PBKs LIKE TO CALL B BABA AS GHOST. BY THAT, THE REAL STATUS OF B BABA WILL NOT CHANGE AT ALL, AS BKs NEVER BELIEVE so, nor believe B BABA ENTERS DIXIT.
By implying B baba to be a ghost, it is PBKs who are going to lose value and become REAL LIVING EMBODIED 'GHOSTS' THEMSELVES, WITHOUT EVEN REAL-EYEsing SAME, as already said earlier.

Even 'sita' soul had said in similar way- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51070&hilit=moment#p51070

This is already said earlier - that pure things are NOTHING FOR PBKs. FOR THEM. - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51025&hilit ... ion#p51025

This is another evidence showing their immediate negative and false similar reaction. So their vehicle/boat is in REVERSE gear. But, let them believe it, as they like.

But, since most of them follow physical purity, this has to be appreciated. So, they are also 'brahmins', although FALSE 'Brahmins'. We need to respect them at least in that perspective; and of course, in drama, we have to respect EVERYONE, including the DoG of Ravan or Maya. Wish them all the best, once again.

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