Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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Rudraakash
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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by Rudraakash » 11 Aug 2012

mbbhat wrote:Good
:sad:

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 11 Aug 2012

mbbhat wrote:so- if 2.25 lakh souls complete their Bhakti, but still experience punishment (since 8 only will not receive punishment), then - is it not something contradictory?

that is- even when those souls (2.25 lakh minus eight) have no Bhakti left in them, still experience punishment?

So- what do PBKs mean by gyaan and Bhakti in real sense?
The numberwise completion of Bhakti, karmic accounts and experience of punishment takes place simultaneously. Why will someone experience punishments when all the karmic accounts have been settled?

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 11 Aug 2012

The numberwise completion of Bhakti, karmic accounts and experience of punishment takes place simultaneously.
So- is the completion of Bhakti then natural or through punishment?

Usually punishment is given after the declaration of the result (too late board). Is it not? so- how can then effort be put or has value?

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 12 Aug 2012

mbbhat wrote:So- is the completion of Bhakti then natural or through punishment?

Usually punishment is given after the declaration of the result (too late board). Is it not? so- how can then effort be put or has value?
Please don't ask questions just for arguement sake. You have been in knowledge for so many years. You should have realized by now that Bhakti does not lead to punishment.

It is said in the Murlis that when someone completes Bhakti, then he/she gets knowledge through God. When someone understands knowledge he gets detachment (vairagya) from Bhakti and leaves it.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 12 Aug 2012

Bhakti does not lead to punishment.
I think, Bhakti said in two meanings in Murli. One by knowledge and another sanskaar (attachment to body and materials).

PBKs comment when some pbk sheds his body as - he had percentage of Bhakti in him. . what is that Bhakti. that seems different than what you have written by the following quote.
It is said in the Murlis that when someone completes Bhakti, then he/she gets knowledge through God. When someone understands knowledge he gets detachment (vairagya) from Bhakti and leaves it.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 12 Aug 2012

PBKs comment when some PBK sheds his body as - he had percentage of Bhakti in him. . what is that Bhakti. that seems different than what you have written by the following quote.

Bhakti means anything that is done without knowing the proper reason or rationale.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

arjun wrote:Bhakti means anything that is done without knowing the proper reason or rationale.
Here i felt contradiction- when according to 2.25 souls do not do anything without proper reason, all of those except 8 in them suffer punishment.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 13 Aug 2012

Here i felt contradiction- when according to 2.25 souls do not do anything without proper reason, all of those except 8 in them suffer punishment.
I don't see any contradiction. You are just trying to argue for the sake of arguement. All except 8 will violate Shrimat or do Bhakti to some extent or the other and hence will have to suffer punishments.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

mbbhat asked- So- does it mean that 2.25 lakh PBKs are definitely going to complete their Bhakti in future/
Arjun soul replied- Yes.
Then said-
All except 8 will violate Shrimat or do Bhakti to some extent or the other and hence will have to suffer punishments.
And then says-
I don't see any contradiction.
Initially- when i asked the query in one post, Arjun soul could not understand the question. I had to ask the question in many different ways. Still the answer is as above.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by Rudraakash » 13 Aug 2012

Dear Bhatt
Your arguments are completely absurd, Without undertanding you have just decided to argue.
In lokik examination, who get more than 60% marks are FIRST DIVISION pass, but who get more than 75% marks are also have first division but they are PASS WITH HONOUR.
Thats why baba says only Those will not suffer punishment who will be pass with honour, but they are also numberwise.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

Dear Rudr soul,
Previously arju had written that- saaligraams represent those who become completely soul conscious.

How many will become completely soul conscious? Is it 8 or more? .

but PBKs say- the phallus in ling represents body of Shankar and since Shankar attains so high stage, his body is also worshipped. This is claim of PBKs.

now- the question is- since many number of saaligraams are also worhipped, (not just 8), do you call them completely soul conscious?

If you believe they all become soul conscious by punishment and hence become worship worthy, and hence their body is also worhipped as saligram, then what is speciality in Shankar?

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

Rudraakash wrote:In lokik examination, who get more than 60% marks are FIRST DIVISION pass, but who get more than 75% marks are also have first division but they are PASS WITH HONOUR.
When a pbk sheds his body- PBKs give reason- that pbk had percentage of Bhakti in him.

now- what does that mean? His present state of effort is just out of 8th rank, or out of 108th rank or out of 16108th rank, or out of 2.25 lakh rank?
-----
out of = poor than

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by Rudraakash » 13 Aug 2012

How many will become completely soul conscious? Is it 8 or more? .

2.25 lacks souls will complete Pass or complete soul conscious but can not say pass with honour. Only 8 are pass with honour. COMPLETE SOUL CONSCIOUS MEAN IS NOT BAAP SAMAN, BAAP SAMAN IS ONLY ONE and there will be difference between 1st and 8th soul.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 13 Aug 2012

How many will become completely soul conscious? Is it 8 or more? .

but PBKs say- the phallus in ling represents body of Shankar and since Shankar attains so high stage, his body is also worshipped. This is claim of PBKs.

now- the question is- since many number of saaligraams are also worhipped, (not just 8), do you call them completely soul conscious?

mbbhat Bhai,
I think you are arguing just like a small child just for the sake of arguement. I think it is your ego of showing yourself greater than ShivBaba that is instigating you to equate shaligram with Shivling.

Baba says in the Murlis that only my ling is worshipped. In case of all other deities other organs are worshipped but in case of ShivBaba it is the ling (phallus) that is worshipped. No other soul is able to attain that cent percent purity or soul conscious stage.

When I write 'completely soul conscious' that does not mean that all the 500 crore human souls become completely soul conscious at the same time. They become numberwise. Number one soul becomes first, then 8, then 108, then 16000, then 9 lakh. Eight souls become completely soul conscious without experiencing punishment. Yet they are not equal to the number one soul in purusharth (efforts). So, they are woshipped as shaligrams, but they cannot be equated with Shivling. Are you not able to understand this simple English? Or are you trying to act smart?

You have started arguing meaninglessly on the issue of shaligram ever since I produced the Murli proof regarding Shankar and Shivling. Perhaps it is the frustration of being proved wrong that is driving you to argue in such childish manner. Anyway, it is your life. You have to decide whether you wish to prove yourself sane or insane. We will continue to reply on the basis of Murlis.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

I think you are arguing just like a small child just for the sake of arguement. I think it is your ego of showing yourself greater than ShivBaba that is instigating you to equate shaligram with Shivling.
I do not know about saaligraam. If PBKs know fully they can explain . else it is up to them.

but this is very important point since PBKs claim that their Chariot is worshipped with god.

now, if the body of ling represents body of a human being, then what does body of shaligram represent?

If a point on ling represents a soul on that, then how many soul, how many bodies are worshipped- whether it is of Shiv, Shankar or Parvati- they should be able to express, is it not?

I am not forcing them to answer, neither expecting from them. But raised an important issue.
1)Baba says in the Murlis that only my ling is worshipped. In case of all other deities other organs are worshipped but in case of ShivBaba it is the ling (phallus) that is worshipped. 2)No other soul is able to attain that cent percent purity or soul conscious stage.
1)That could be because- shiv has no body and all others have body. Very simple logic, is it not?

I have not heard the word- Meraa ling = My ling. ? Is there any Murli where Baba has said- ling is my organ? Baba has said- people worship me in the form of ling because i am just a point, - how can a point be worshipped? Hence people make big lings.

2)This may be interpretation of PBKs. Baba always praises two souls- Brahma and Mama.

Baba always says- in rudr mala, first is Rudr (= Shiv), next are meru daanas (couple).

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