# Flaw No. 475) PBKs inadvertently deny the incarnation of God:-
sita wrote:Baba has said that a soul without a body is like nonliving.
1) We should understand the context in which Baba has said. If you think soul is fully non-living, then how can soul move or come down from Paramdham to the physical world to take body/birth?
What baba has said is- in Paramdham, it does not experience like in the physical world.
2) You might have heard Baba saying- "when we sleep, soul goes into bodiless stage".
Baba also says- "put effort to achieve bodiless stage".
Now- do you think both are one and the same?
It is not true that the cause of degradation is attachment, because the Golden Age is for those who have conquered attachment, still souls degrade there.
3) In fact, the story of "attachment-free KIng" is of Conf. Age, not of Satyug. In other words- it is more applicable to the Conf. Age than Golden Age*.
SM 28-9-82(1):- TUM JAANTE HO HUM AVINAASHI BAAP PAR BALI CHADHEY HAIN, TOH HUMAARAA SAB KUCH AVINAASHI BAN JAATAA HAI. PURAANAA SHARIR CHOD NAYAA LE LETE HAIN. TUM BACHCHON NE MOHJEETH RAJA KI KATHAA TOH SUNI HAI. YAH KAHAANI Satyug KE LIYE NAHIN HAI. KYONKI VAHAAN AKAALEY MRUTYU HOTAA NAHIN. YAH SIRF MISAAL KE LIYE KAHAANI BANAAYI HAI KI US SAMAY HUM NASHTAMOH, MOHJEETH RAHTE HAIN. SHARIR SAHITH PURRAANI DUNIYAA SE MAMATW MITHAANAA HAI.
KYONKI TUM NAYI DUNIYAA MAY JAA RAHE HO. PURAANI DUNIYAA KE SAATH KISKAA MAMATW HOTAA HAI KYAA? NAHIN. ISKO BEHAD KA SANYAAS KAHAA JAATAA HAI. SIRF BABA BHI NAHIN KAHTE KI DEH SE MAMATW MITHAAVO. PARANTU JO BHI IN AANKHON SE DEKHTE HO, SABKO BHOOLO. KYONKI AB DIVYDRUSHTHI MILI HAI KI YAH SAB KHATM HONAA HAI. PURAANI DUNIYAA VINAASH HUYI PADI HAI. ShivBaba humko raajy dete hain. ShivBaba KA NAAM SADAA SHIV HAI. KYONKI UNKO APNAA SHARIR TOH HAI NAHIN. -37- VIMP [Yaad, ShivBaba]
= ...The story of Attachment-free Kings is not of Golden Age. Because there is no untimely death
It is very simple logic. The title Mayajeeth is actually for Conf. Age. In G Age, there is no Maya.
4) Usually Baba says- "You have lost path from half a Kalpa. "
But, sometimes Baba also says- "You have lost path from G Age itself."
5) Now- is there Maya in G Age? The answer is both yes and no.
In one way- there is no Maya, because Maya means vices. In G Age, there are no vices.
But, sometimes baba says- what all you see is Maya. baba says- the nature is also called as paanch- bhooth (five ghosts or demons). Worship of deities is also worshiping of bhooth (ghost or demons)
So- the context should be understood properly.
6) If we see- for any natural degradation
, attachment/influence is the cause. For any building or object to get old (naturally= ageing), is due to its attachment with other things.
7) If PBKs believe attachment is not cause for degradation, then why should there be praise for attachment-free Kings(Moh_jeeth Raajas) ? - :laugh:
The Supreme Soul does not become jivatma...
8) There are very clear Murli points saying- "I become gruhasthi(household person).", as well as "I become jivatma".
SM 11-12-76(1):- Jaise tum aatmaayein yahaan aakar part bajaati ho, gruhsathi ban_thee ho, vaise mujhe bhi aakar gruhasthi ban_naa padtaa hai. Sirf Sangamyug par ek hi baar aataa hun aur aakar gruhasthi bantaa hun
. Yahaan sammukh tum MUJHE maatpitaa kahte ho. Bhal aage bhi tum mujhe pukaarthay thay- Tum maatpitaa….. Parantu us samay main gruhasthi nahin thaa. Is samay aakar gruhasthi banaa hun. Grushasthi bhi 2-4 bachchon kaa nahin. Dher ke dher bachche hote jaate hain. ..... Abhi toh tum samajhte ho sukh toh humko Satyug may milenge. Vah sukh praapt karne liye hum Maatpita ke baney hain. ZAROOR KOYI SAMAY GRUHASTHI HAIN JIS KAARAN UNKO TUM MAATPITAA KAHAA JAATAA HAI. Gaate toh hain parantu samajhte nahin. Abhi tum samajhte ho BEHAD KAA BAAP HAI TOH Maa BHI hai. IS Maa DWAARAA ARTHAATH PRAJAPITA BRAHMA DWAARAA ADOPT KIYAA HAI. Ab Prajapita donon (both ShivBaba and Brahma Baba) Baap thah_rey na. Pita dwaraa adopt kaise karenge. Baap toh maataa dwaara adopt karenge na. Ab TWAMEVA MAATAASHCHA PITAA… yah unko kahe yaa Brahma ko kahe? Gaate toh hain hum sabhi brothers hain, vo Father hai. Usmay toh maataa kaa prashn nahin. Gaayaa jaataa hai tum maatpitaa…. Ab maataa pitaa (= Maatpitaa) kaise bante hain, yah wonderful baatein hain na samajhne ki. Manushy moonjhte bhi honge. YAH SHARIR MALE KAA HONEY KAARAN MAATAA ADOPT KI GAYI. Vo hai Saraswati beti. Parantu beti dwaaraa toh adopt nahin kiyaa jaataa hai. YAH MAATAA BHI HAI TOH PITAA BHI HAI. Usnay ismay pravesh kiyaa hai, tab BRAHMA KO KHUD KAHTE HAIN TUM HUMAARAA BACHCHAA BHI HO, VANNI BHI HO. BAROBAR BAAP IN DWAARAA ADOPT KARTE HAIN TOH YAH MAATAA BHI HO JAATI HAI. -57- [maatpita, Prajapita, adoption]
= Like you souls come here and play your roles, become gruhasthis(house hold) I too have to become gruhasthi. Just once in Conf. Age, I become gruhasthi
. Here, in front, you say Maatpita to me. Of course, you used to say so even before (in Bhaktimarg). But, I was not gruhasthi(incarnated) at that time. Now, I have become gruhasthi. That too, not of 2 tto 4 children. Lots of children are there. …Now, you know, you will get happiness in Golden Age. To get that happiness, you have become (children) of Maatpita. Definitely, at some point of time, God had become gruhasthi, that is why HE is praised (in Bhakti) as Maatpita. They praise, but do not know. Now, you know there is unlimited Father as well as mother. Through this mother, means through PPB, (you) have been adopted. Now, both the Prajapitas (ShivBaba and Prajapita Brahma) are Father (Shiv is Father and Brahma is male), is it not? How adoption can be done through a Father? Father adopts through mother, is it not? Now, “you are mother and Father”, should this be said to him(Shiv) or Brahma? People praise- “We all are brothers, HE is Father”. In this the question of mother does not arise. It is praised, You are maatpita, Now, how (he) becomes maatpita, these are wonderful matters to understand, is it not? People may be confused. This body is male, hence mother is adopted. She is Saraswati. But, through daughter, adoption cannot be done. (HENCE) THIS IS MOTHER AS WELL AS Father. HE entered in this. Then/hence (He) says to Brahma that- You are my child/son as well as wife. Father adopts through this. THEREFORE THIS BECOMES EVEN MOTHER.
9) SM 8-10-77(1):- Parmatma bhi padhaane ke liye jivatma bante hain aur inmey pravesh kar inko aur Brahma mukhvamshavali ko padhate hain
. SWAYAM BRAHMA KO MUKHVAMSHAVALI NAHIN KAHENGE. Braahman Brahma mukhvamshavali hai. Brahma Shiv ki mukhvamshavali nahin hai. ShivBaba to aakar inmey pravesh karte hain, apnaa banaate hain. Yah bhi creation hai. Pahley Brahma ko rachte hain. Vishnu ko nahin rachte. Gaayaa bhi jata hai Brahma Vishnu aur Shankar. Vishnu Shankar aur Brahma nahin gaayaa jaataa hai. Pahley Brahma ko rachte hain.
= Supreme Soul also becomes jivatma (living soul) to teach
, and (HE) enters in this and teaches this one and the mouth born progeny of Brahma....
10) If PBKs believe God does not become JIVATMA or GRUHASTHI, it is as good as denying incarnation of God.
11)These show how foolish PBKs are- both intellectually, as well as physically. Even their physical eyes are not able to observe the clear words- gruhasthi, jivatma, etc.
So- PBKs neither understand the meaning, nor can recognize the words even physically, and claim something else -totally opposite and claim that they are the intelligent (Gyani tu atmas). Let us still hope the very best for them.
* - In PBK view- the LN of Golden Age are like fools. So- obviously would/should degrade, is it not?
# Flaw No. 476) PBKs inadvertently imply- One who has conquered attachment is a fool:-- :laugh:
12) In PBK view- the "attachment-free King" is said to the Golden Aged Kings**. But, they call Golden Aged LN as fools!
So- PBKs are implying- one who has conquered attachment is a FOOL!
** - In BK view-
there is only one type of Laksmi & Narayan = Kings of G Age. - who are intelligent (pure, virtuous and powerful). The same LN are royal fools (when compared to Conf. Aged braahmins) since they will not have knowledge there.