Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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arjun
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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 13 Oct 2009

Flaw No. 02): Murli says mukrar(=fixed) rath(Chariot). But PBKs mis interpret the meaning and say permanent Chariot.
Advance knowledge is given by ShivBaba in Hindi. And in Hindi He uses the word 'mukarrar'. Initially, PBKs used to translate it as 'permanent' or 'fixed' in English, now they use the word 'appointed'. If you want to argue uselessly despite understanding the meaning in Hindi I have nothing more to say.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by cal » 13 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote:
they take rebirth together and hence they must be twins....moreover each one couple is having one son and one daughter hence family of four....
Dear Brother RudraPutra:

Question:
If a couple gives birth to a pair (of twins), then when the couple shed their body, they will be given birth by existing population. So the existing pair (from the population) has fulfilled their progeny of a twin. So.... if every couple gives birth to twins ONLY, the population should not grow, but stay the same. There would be NO GROWTH in population.

Question:
Population @ begining of Sat Yug = 9 Lakh

CAL

Population @ begining of Treta Yug = 2 crores
Population @ end of Treta Yug = 10 crores

Why is the population growth in Sat Yug (2 crores/9 lakh) HIGHER than population growth in Treta Yug (10 crores/2 lakh) if the concept of TWINS holds true?

Your valuable input will be deeply appreciated.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 13 Oct 2009

cal wrote:Why is the population growth in Sat Yug (2 crores/9 lakh) HIGHER than population growth in Treta Yug (10 crores/2 lakh) if the concept of TWINS holds true?
In some of the Murli discussions ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has said that some deities (who have made less efforts in the Confluence Age) give birth to two or more pairs of twins during their lifetime, which causes the population to increase.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by cal » 13 Oct 2009

arjun wrote: In some of the Murli discussions ShivBaba (through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) has said that some deities (who have made less efforts in the Confluence Age) give birth to two or more pairs of twins during their lifetime, which causes the population to increase.
Dear Brother Arjun.

Thanks for your input. If the same rule (low effort souls give birth to more than a pair) is applied for Sat Yug and Treta Yug, mathematically and logically, Population Groth should be HIGHER in the era where original Population is High (1.e 2 crores).

(In other words, the same low effort souls of Sat Yug will come in Treta Yug, morover much more low effort souls should descend in Treta Yug)

Awaiting your input.

CAL

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 13 Oct 2009

cal wrote:If the same rule (low effort souls give birth to more than a pair) is applied for Sat Yug and Treta Yug, mathematically and logically, Population Groth should be HIGHER in the era where original Population is High (1.e 2 crores).
At this stage I cannot give you an answer, but I wish to know how much do you think the population should increase? According to Gyan, the population increases from 2 crores (at the beginning of Silver Age) to 10 crores (at the end of Silver Age). If you think that the population should be much higher, then please give me the approximate new figure so that I can ask Baba.

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Re: Flaws in PBK phiosophy

Post by RudraPutra » 13 Oct 2009

mbbhat wrote: They need not be of same age.
The age(life span) of female can be 5 yrs lesser than the male. So male can take birth first, then 5 yrs afterwards, female may take birth. But death can happen together.
In the next birth, male will take birth as female and female as male. So that difference will be compensated.
....in Murli it has been stated that "Tum 21 janm ke liye saath rahoge"(You will stay together for 21 births)....if anyone takes birth 5 years early than the other than how it is possible that they stay together.....also the example was used for making the scene clean and clear hence concept of death as well as birth was used.....if death happens together why they won't take birth together?....i cannot understand your missing of logic in this...do you wanna say that one of the soul there too remain in subtle body while other take birth and grow?....this is messing up with ShivBaba's knowledge point of view....

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by RudraPutra » 13 Oct 2009

cal wrote: If the same rule (low effort souls give birth to more than a pair) is applied for Sat Yug and Treta Yug, mathematically and logically, Population Groth should be HIGHER in the era where original Population is High (1.e 2 crores).

(In other words, the same low effort souls of Sat Yug will come in Treta Yug, morover much more low effort souls should descend in Treta Yug)
....might be for the following reason(s)...
1)in Satyug each soul have longer life when compared to the life of souls in Tretayug.....even there are only 8 births for 1250 years of Satyug while there are 12 births(4 more births) for 1250 years of Tretayug...this results in the higher population density in Satyug than Tretayug....

2)rate of increase in population is depended on certain things----it is inversely proportional to the number of souls belonging to royal family and is directly proportional to the subjects-praja.......
royal family has lot of things for entertainment and hence couples are also enjoying the other treats of royal family other than enjoying with themselves..so naturally they give less birth to children....while in subject's section,they don't have much to get entertained and hence they focus on themselves so they give more birth to children....
in Satyug there is only one king and queen at a time,rest all are subjects while in Tretayug there are many kings and queens and prince and princess when compared to Satyug-----so this result as population growth in Satyug is higher than Tretayug as subjects have less things for entertainment....
....this is what it should be....

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by RudraPutra » 14 Oct 2009

....continuing from the above quote....
at the end of Tretayug, that is confluence of Tretayug and dwaparyug, it is believed that half destruction occurs.....this might be also one of the reasons for the low density of population when compared to Satyug.... :?: ...might be....

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Re: Flaws in PBK phiosophy

Post by mbbhat » 14 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote:i cannot understand your missing of logic in this...do you wanna say that one of the soul there too remain in subtle body while other take birth and grow?....this is messing up with ShivBaba's knowledge point of view....
Dear Soul,
I mean- that life of male can be more than female. For Eg:- Lakshmi's full age is 145 yrs and Narayan's is 155 yrs(say). Lakshmi takes birth 5 yrs after Narayan's birth. So when Lakshmi dies at 145 yrs, Narayan will be at 150yrs. (so there is no question of becoming widow). Lakshmi immediatley takes birth in a male body. Narayan will die 5 yrs after Lakshmi and take female birth. So the difference in the first birth is is nullified in the second/next birth.

So there is no question of subtle body at all.

Hope you have understood this. If not I will explain more.
"1)Satyug mein tum hi aapas mein Bhai-Bhen the.....dusra koi sambandh nahi"--------------MU 4.5.74
"In Satyug you all were Brothers and Sisters inter-se.....no other relations"

"2)Vaha ek-ek ko ek bachcha,ek bachchi ho to treta tak kitne ho jaayenge?"
"If there each each have one son,one daughter than how much it becomes in treta?"
Dear Soul,
Will you please explain how can population increase till Tretayug according to your Murli point mentioned above(2)

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by cal » 14 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote: rate of increase in population is depended on certain things----it is inversely proportional to the number of souls belonging to royal family and is directly proportional to the subjects-praja....
...
RudraPutra wrote: In Satyug there is only one king and queen at a time,rest all are subjects while in Tretayug there are many kings and queens and prince and princess when compared to Satyug-----
Dear Brother RudraPutra:

I also think that the progeny of twins is applicable only to the royal family. The subjects have more than twins. That can explain the growth in population rather than remaining stagnant.
In Satyug there are Maharajas while in Tretayug there are Rajas and Maharajas, which PROBABLY disbalances the ratio of royal family to subjects leading to more population growth in Satyug than Treta Yug.

HOWEVER, without the knowledge of how many subjects give birth to how many progeny, I cannot proceed further in doing calculations. So I cannot comprehend QUANTITATIVELY but can understand QUALITATIVELY.

Thanks for your valuable input.

CAL

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by RudraPutra » 14 Oct 2009

cal wrote: HOWEVER, without The Knowledge of how many subjects give birth to how many progeny, I cannot proceed further in doing calculations. So I cannot comprehend QUANTITATIVELY but can understand QUALITATIVELY.

Thanks for your valuable input.

CAL
...yes of course...although we won't get the accurate picture(at this stage) but atleast we can get certain sketch of the scenario.....thanx for understanding what i really meant....

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Re: Flaws in PBK phiosophy

Post by RudraPutra » 14 Oct 2009

mbbhat wrote: I mean- that life of male can be more than female. For Eg:- Lakshmi's full age is 145 yrs and Narayan's is 155 yrs(say). Lakshmi takes birth 5 yrs after Narayan's birth. So when Lakshmi dies at 145 yrs, Narayan will be at 150yrs. (so there is no question of becoming widow). Lakshmi immediatley takes birth in a male body. Narayan will die 5 yrs after Lakshmi and take female birth. So the difference in the first birth is is nullified in the second/next birth.
.....this means for early 5 years when they took birth they were not together...Krishna takes birth 5 years ago than Radha.....so how come we can say that they are together.....they were seperated for 5 years atleast as far as your logic is applied....

Will you please explain how can population increase till Tretayug according to your Murli point mentioned above(2)
....i have mentioned those things in same forum.....you can check those posts.....plzz refer it thoroughly coz that is same what i can answer at this stage....

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Re: Flaws in PBK phiosophy

Post by mbbhat » 15 Oct 2009

[quote="RudraPutra"]....this means for early 5 years when they took birth they were not together...Krishna takes birth 5 years ago than Radha.....so how come we can say that they are together....they were seperated for 5 years atleast as far as your logic is applied....[quote]

Together need not mean physically. It can also mean there is unity. Is it said in Murli point that both husband and wife live together?

Not only that sometimes Baba says- approximately. You might have heard Murli point- "5000 yrs from today, there was Kingdom of Lakshmi Narayan. There was one religion. There was no other no other continent."- But we all know that if you take exactly 5000 yrs before, there was Kingdom of Ravan(todays' world). So many times, Baba says approximately.
------------------------

Rudraputra wrote:- ....i have mentioned those things in same forum.....you can check those posts.....plzz refer it thoroughly coz that is same what i can answer at this stage

Dear Soul,
You have mentioned the Murli point that says- if there is just one male child and one female child from Golden Age till Tretayug, how much population it would be?

My question was in such case, how can population increase?

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Re: Flaws in PBK phiosophy

Post by RudraPutra » 15 Oct 2009

mbbhat wrote: Together need not mean physically. It can also mean there is unity. Is it said in Murli point that both husband and wife live together?
...yes it mean practically....
"Baap tum bacchon ko 100 pratishat healthy banaate hai"--------MU 21.10.74
....now first tell me who will give birth to Krishna and radhe so they would remain 100 percent healthy? ...is it only on mere sense of feeling? not practical....in the last birth of radhe and Krishna,they died due to some health problems...so they cannot be called as 100% healthy....when they will be called....is it a mere feeling again?

"Tum brahmanon ka yah ek hi janm hai.Devta varn mein tum 21 janm lete hai.Vaishya,Shudra varn mein 63 janm"--------------MU 12.2.75
....what about this....we are devta for 21 births.....plzzz make me count those births as for Satyug and Tretayug there are only 8 and 12 birth maximum respectively which together make only 20 birth.....what about the 21st birth?....is that too a feeling? and not practical or physical?...

even i have quoted the Murli point earlier also
"Satyug mein tum hi aapas mein Bhai-Bhen the.....dusra koi sambandh nahi"--------------MU 4.5.74
...what does this mean...?no dusra sambandh....if radhe and Krishna are children of different parents then their relations extends.....radhe's parents will become in-law's for Krishna and same in reciprocal.....this extends the relation....and at the same time contradicts BABA's knowledge.....hence it should not be....


Not only that sometimes Baba says- approximately. You might have heard Murli point- "5000 yrs from today, there was Kingdom of Lakshmi Narayan. There was one religion. There was no other no other continent."- But we all know that if you take exactly 5000 yrs before, there was Kingdom of Ravan(todays' world). So many times, Baba says approximately.
truely i have never heard only as 'aaj se'....yes from exact date i have heard that 'aaj se matlab 1966 se'
"Aaj se yaani 1966 se 10 varsh ke andar hum apni is bharatbhoomi ko swarg banakar chodenge.Tumko yah Bharat bhoomi bahut priy hai."--------MU 13.8.66
"From today that is from 1966 within 10 years we will make this Bharat heaven.You like(love) this Bharat"

....our unawareness makes us to think that BABA says approximate....no....for above points what you mentioned it was for 1976....and it really happened....thats the other thing that many of us did not respected that BABA's statement.....but it doesn't mean statements got failed....nope....it can never go wrong....
You have mentioned the Murli point that says- if there is just one male child and one female child from Golden Age till Tretayug, how much population it would be?
My question was in such case, how can population increase?
....you have not read the posts...i have mentioned that souls of subject may have more childs unlike souls belonging to ROYAL FAMILY....even one of the Murli point also says that
"Satyug mein itne bachche hote nahi.Peeche aahista aahista jaasti bachche hote hai"--------MU 27.10.96
"In Satyug there are not many children.Gradually afterwards many children are there"

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 16 Oct 2009

....you have not read the posts...i have mentioned that souls of subject may have more childs unlike souls belonging to ROYAL FAMILY....even one of the Murli point also says that
This is your churning. But the Murli point is against that. Also according to other related Murli points (about population growth) there cannot be increase in population in Golden Age. Because they clearly say- there is just one male child and female child in Golden Age.

So I feel population will start increasing only from Tretayug when number of children = 2+2 =4.

I feel the population at the and of Tretayug is 2 crores. My calculation is like this- In Tretayug, there are 12 births. But parents give birth to children within and/or around half age. So the population would be (9 lakh)*12*[1/2] = 9lakh x 12x 2 = 21600000 = 2 crores (approx).

My churnning does not violate the Murli point.

But your churning is against the Murli point. No Murli point supports such a high growth in population in Golden Age[9 lakh to 2 crore= more than 22 times!]

Not only that- if you believe the population in the end of Satyug is 2 crore and at the end of Tretayug to be 10 crores, the multiplying factor is just 10/2 =5 .

But this is impractical. Because Murli points clearly say- In Tretayug, number of children = 2+2 = 4.
Since there are twelve births, the multiplying factor should be atleast 12 times {actually 12 X 2 = 24; because parents whill give birth during their half age itself}. So it should be at least 2 x12 = 24 crores. But you say it is just 10 crores. Again your churning is against Murli point.


A note:- Even if every citizen in Satyug from beginning itself produce 2+2 children, the population at the end of Satyug is likely to be 9 lakh X (8 births) / (1/2) = 9x8x2= 144 lakh= just 1.44 crore! Then how come 2 crores?! what logic is this?

----------------------------------------
Regarding bhayi Bhen relation in Satyug- I have said- it just means that all are pure. That is nobody will call their uncle or aunt so. Even if they are uncle, they will/may call just as brother and sister.

There are clear Murli points which say- when you are bodyless, you are bhayi-bhayi(brother-brother). When you are in body, you are bhayi-Bhen(brother- sister).

Even in this world people call strangers as brother or sisters. For example here members use words Brother Shivsena, Brother Arjun, Sister Bansy, etc here. I may call you as brother Rudraputra.

But in this world, one just says- but does not feel it. But in Golden Age, there is purity. That is all. Anyhow, this is my churning.

Will you explain this- Baba says- when you are children of Prajapita, you are brothers and sisters. How? Has Prajapita given us body?
---------------------------------

I will write some Murli points about Radha Krishna shortly which clearly say- both belong to different villages.

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