Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

Rudraakash wrote:2.25 lacks souls will complete Pass or complete soul conscious but can not say pass with honour. Only 8 are pass with honour. COMPLETE SOUL CONSCIOUS MEAN IS NOT BAAP SAMAN, BAAP SAMAN IS ONLY ONE and there will be difference between 1st and 8th soul.
I believed complete soul conscious means pass with honour.

And I believe Baap samaan are not just one but, eight souls- of course, they are numberwsie. If it is only, one why should then Baba say- become Baap samaan to all the children or follow Father?

And also- i believe complete(full) pass means pass with honour.

So- may be PBKs terms are different than Murli words.
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SM 5-5-85(2):- Jitnaa dehi abhimaani banenge utnaa tandurusth aur nirogi bante jaayenge. Is yogbal se hee tum 21 janm nirogi banenge. Jitnaa banenge utnaa pad bhi oonch milegaa. Sajaavon se bachenge. Nahin toh sajaayein bahut khaani padengi. Itney laakhon may se poorey dehi abhimaani sirf 8 baney hain. 8 ki maalaa hai na. Vah bhi numberwaar hain. TOH KITNAA DEHI ABHIMAANI BAN_NAA HAI. 8, phir 108, phir 16108. School may bhi numbers toh hote hain na. KOYI TOH DAAS DAASI BANTE HAIN. PHIR PICHAADI MAY KARKE THODI RAAJAAYI MILTI HAI. EK JANM RAAJAAYI MILEGI. BAAKO JANM NOUKRI KARTE AAYENGE. Phir toh hota hai Ravan raajy. Yahaan ki praalabdh poori huyi. -45

= ...Of these lakh souls (means total of children), only 8 become full (complete) soul conscious. Mala is of 8 , is it not? Even they are numberwise...

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

http://www.shaligram.com/big-shaligram- ... gintro.php
Big Shaligram Shilas: Big Shaligrams Shilas are worshipped in the temple as well as in the houses. There was a belief that bigger Shaligrams can only be worshipped in the temples but now hundreds of devotees are worshipping medium and big Shaligrams Shilas in their Altar at homes and work places. These devotees have been immensely benefitted by worshipping bigger Shaligrams either in the temples or in their Altars. Since the bigger Shaligrams have clear impressions they look very exotic and beautiful. They remove negativity and brings immense peace, prosperity and protection in the homes of devotees. The Big Shaligram Shilas naturally form the shape of a Shivalingas.

There are several Murtis which are made up from Shaligram stones. The famous image of Vishnu in the Himalayan Badri- Nath is said to be carved out of a Shaligrama, as also the image of Krishna in Udupi (in Karnataka). During the image changing ceremony in Puri-Jaganath, the Salagrama stone is the essence that is concealed within the main wooden icon of Jagannatha. A Shalagrama-stone officiate as the Snapana-Murti [icon for bathing] in the Shrine of Nath-Dvara.

Big Shaligrams are normally available in several colours like black, blue, white, golden colours etc.
It is very auspicious to donate big Shaligram Shilas to the temple or to any Vaishnavas who can do the 'Sevs' of the Shila with devotion. By donating Big Shaligram Shilas the devotees goes to Vaikuntha and attain Salvation. In case the Big Shaligram is donated to an individual, it must be presented freely with the words " Peace, may it to be good to you". The Shaligram Shila should be received with reverence in the cupped hands and placed on ones own head, as a mark of acceptance.

Big Shaligram Shilas bestows the devotee with good health, wealth and prosperity. Since the impressions are very clear on the Shila the amount of energy the Shila can radiate is enormous. It is extremely auspicious to worship the Big Shaligrams in the temples.
The part of the donation received from the devotees from donating Big Shaligram is given for philanthropic activities.
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Even murtis are prepared from saligram stones? And the beliefs have changed later. The web site says so.

so- how can it be claimed that- in the beginning of Bhaktimarg itself, devotees used to believe that the Shiv ling is organ of a human being (Shankar? Could it be due to- ignorance- later when they assumed Shiv = Shankar and thought Shiv is human form, then they could not understand meaning of ling and thought that ling is human organ?
[Because Baba says- ling is corporeal form of point in Murlis]
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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by Rudraakash » 13 Aug 2012

I believed complete soul conscious means pass with honour.
Its your believeing system which is called MANMAT NOT SHREEMAT. In the end, Every soul will become complete soul conscious, but they will loose their position, There DAAS-DAASI also will be complete soul conscious. even body conscious can not go to Paramdham or SUPREME ABODE,
I believe Baap samaan are not just one but, eight souls- of course, they are numberwsie. If it is only, one why should then Baba say- become Baap samaan to all the children or follow Father?
Mean of baap saman is 100% and 8 are not 100% they are numberwise.
Even 2nd number can be 99% but its not baap saman, thats why he got 2nd position.
Its told in mu.
Baap aakar BHAGWAN, BHAGWATI BANATE HAI,-
So it will be only single couple not everyone will become GOD AND GODESS.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 14 Aug 2012

Its your believing system which is called MANMAT NOT SHREEMAT.

Actually- it is not just belief. There are Murli points which say- become full pass as if that is the highest goal.
But, at present, i do not have those with reference. thank you

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 14 Aug 2012

I do not know about saaligraam. If PBKs know fully they can explain . else it is up to them.

but this is very important point since PBKs claim that their Chariot is worshipped with god.

now, if the body of ling represents body of a human being, then what does body of shaligram represent?
If you don't know about saligram, first do research, see the difference between the shape of a shivling and saligram and then argue with others. Half knowledge is always dangerous and being egotistic with half knowledge is even more dangerous.

I have already said that neither a soul nor body is worshipped separately. It is the combination of soul and body which is worshipped. I think you should go to a BK center and attend the basic course once again, especially the lesson on soul.
If a point on ling represents a soul on that, then how many soul, how many bodies are worshipped- whether it is of Shiv, Shankar or Parvati- they should be able to express, is it not?
I have already answered that Shivling represents Shiv+Shankar (i.e. soul of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit)+Parvati. If you don't know that Shiv doesnt have a body, then attend the basic course at a BK center once again. Please don't waste our time by asking silly questions which even agyanis would know.
1)That could be because- Shiv has no body and all others have body. Very simple logic, is it not?
If you don't know the meaning of ling, please refer a dictionary. Ling refers to the male reproductive organ, the phallus. If Shiv does not have a body at all, how can He have a ling? It is the ling of the mukarrar rath (permanent/appointed Chariot) that is worshipped.
I have not heard the word- Meraa ling = My ling. ? Is there any Murli where Baba has said- ling is my organ? Baba has said- people worship me in the form of ling because i am just a point, - how can a point be worshipped? Hence people make big lings.
If you haven't seen a Murli point that does not mean that it does not exist. And even if we reproduce it you are not going to believe it. So, it is of no use. The explanation that you gave above was for primary school children. As the children grow up the clarification deepens. If you want to continue to be a suckling baby (in spiritual knowledge) it is your free will. Brahma Baba was declared a baby by ShivBaba. You can choose to be a baby as well.
2)This may be interpretation of PBKs. Baba always praises two souls- Brahma and Mama.

Baba always says- in rudr mala, first is Rudr (= Shiv), next are meru daanas (couple).
Baba has said in Murlis that next to God is Prajapita, next to God is Shankar, etc. which prove that next to God is one and not two. If that was the case there would ba story of Satya Lakshmi as well. But there is a story of only Satya Narayana (true Narayana).

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 14 Aug 2012

And I believe Baap samaan are not just one but, eight souls- of course, they are numberwsie. If it is only, one why should then Baba say- become Baap samaan to all the children or follow Father?
Meaningless question. Every teacher in the world asks all the students to get first rank. But only one gets first rank.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 14 Aug 2012

If you don't know the meaning of ling, please refer a dictionary. Ling refers to the male reproductive organ, the phallus.
For those who are interested-

the famous words used for male and female are-

StreeLing = word used to identify females - [stree = female]

PulLing = used to identify males [Purush = male]

So- I think- "Ling" can mean "gender".

For Shivling, it is said- Jyotir_ling. [Jyoti= light]

So- if ling means just male reproductive organ, how can that word appear in the word streeling (female)?

So- possibility could be- JyortirLing (name for shiv) means- shiv's gender is neither pu_Ling (male), nor Stree_Ling(female). In other words, Shiv's ling (gender) is just jyoti (light).

So- I think- without knowing this deep secret , later people might have assumed the meaning of the word ling as reproductive organ.

the dictionaries are prepared later. so- in such extra ordinary cases, I think- we cannot just believe words from dictionary.
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If the meaning of ling is phallus, does a female have phallus?
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And one more point to be noted is- if ling represents just phallus, how can the point (soul) be shown there? Because place of shiv is not at phallus. It is forehead.
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PBKs give different explanations -

Sometimes PBKs say- Ling represents a part of Mr. dixit's body = just the upper part of the body excluding face and hands = They praise that- Mr. dixit has no awareness of organs (=no awareness of face, hands and the bottom part of the body). They give proof like this- The shape of ling is similar to the upper part of the boy excluding face and hands.

If we remove the head, hands and bottom portion of the body, the rest part looks like body of ling. (even though does not fully agree- but some creative idea is there).

But still- how can the place of soul be that? It cannot be explained.

So- PBKs sometimes say- ling represents full body, sometimes, half body, sometimes phallus (like present lowkik people).

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 14 Aug 2012

Rudraakash wrote:
2.25 lacks souls will complete Pass
SM 8-7-71(3) or SM 8-7- 81(3):- Jo full paas hote hain unko scholarship milti hai.
= Those who become full pass, get scholarship.

SM 20-3-81(3):- Full pass honeyvaale ko raajaayi milegi. = those who become full pass, will get kingdom.

so- according to PBKs, all the 2.25 lakh soul get scholarship.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 14 Aug 2012

StreeLing = word used to identify females - [stree = female]

PulLing = used to identify males [Purush = male]

So- I think- "Ling" can mean "gender".

For Shivling, it is said- Jyotir_ling. [Jyoti= light]

So- if ling means just male reproductive organ, how can that word appear in the word streeling (female)?
I think now you should go to a science teacher as well as an English teacher.

If you observe a male and a female body externally, it is the male organ that basically differentiates a male and female and not the female organ.

Recently there have been cases of female sportspersons being debarred for having hidden their gender. It is only on the basis of the male reproductive organ that one can differentiate male from female.
If the meaning of ling is phallus, does a female have phallus?
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And one more point to be noted is- if ling represents just phallus, how can the point (soul) be shown there? Because place of Shiv is not at phallus. It is forehead.
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The explanation about ling that it represents the phallus is not just from PBKs but also from the Hindu scriptures.
At many places the face of Shankar is also shown on the Shivling. For example, in Eklingnath (Udaipur), Mahaakaal temple (Ujjain) if I am not wrong.
Sometimes PBKs say- Ling represents a part of Mr. dixit's body = just the upper part of the body excluding face and hands = They praise that- Mr. dixit has no awareness of organs (=no awareness of face, hands and the bottom part of the body). They give proof like this- The shape of ling is similar to the upper part of the boy excluding face and hands.
You are correct.
So- PBKs sometimes say- ling represents full body, sometimes, half body, sometimes phallus (like present lowkik people).
All three are correct. But since your intellect is still limited to primary class children (stagnated to the level of BK knowledge of 1969) you will not be able to appreciate the deep University level knowledge that ShivBaba is giving.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 14 Aug 2012

Arju soul wrote:- If Shiv does not have a body at all, how can He have a ling? It is the ling of the mukarrar rath (permanent/appointed Chariot) that is worshipped.
According to my knowledge, Shiv ling worshipped in different forms by many religions. It is believed by many people that the stone in Mecca also was initially a shiv ling. So- do PBKs believe that even other religions believe that shivling represents phallus of Shankar?

http://venu10.blogspot.in/2007/02/how-m ... vling.html


there are people who believe shiv ling as formless God. See the last comment below.

http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 120AAiVfSV

Here the meaning of ling is said to be symbol.

http://www.shaivam.org/shplinga.htm

http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritual-ar ... mless-siva
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Swami vivekananda did not agree that ling represents phallus.
http://hinduism.about.com/od/lordshiva/ ... -Linga.htm

What is behind Lord Shiva being represented as a 'Linga?' The popular belief is that the Shiva Linga or Lingam represents the phallus, the emblem of the generative power in nature. According to Swami Sivananda, this is not only a serious mistake, but also a grave blunder.

In Sanskrit, Linga means a 'mark' or a symbol, which points to an inference. Thus the Shiva Linga is a symbol of Lord Shiva - a mark that reminds of the Omnipotent Lord, which is formless

Shiva Linga speaks to the devotee in the unmistakable language of silence, and it is only the outward symbol of the formless being, Lord Shiva, who is the undying soul seated in the chambers of your heart, who is your in-dweller, your innermost self or 'Atman,' and who is identical with the supreme 'Brahman.'

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 14 Aug 2012

Now- can it be due to wrong shooting of PBKs (claiming ling represents phallus) that comes in Bhaktimarg and people start to believe the same?
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If you haven't seen a Murli point that does not mean that it does not exist. And even if we reproduce it you are not going to believe it. So, it is of no use.
SM 17-6-72(2):- Baap aaye sabhi ko padhaate hain. VAH HAI NIRAAKAAR STAR, LING ROOP MAY RAKHAA HAI SAMJHAANE LIYE. Bindi likney se koyi samajh na sake. Tum samjhaa sakte ho atma ek star hai, Baap bhi star hai. -195-

= He is incorporeal star. The ling is kept to explain. If we write point, no one will understand.

so- there are Murli points which say ling stands for star or point. but no Murli point says ling is body or phallus.
If that was the case there would ba story of Satya Lakshmi as well. But there is a story of only Satya Narayana (true Narayana).
would PBKs explain why it is said- godess of wealth is Lakshmi, godess of power is durga,

why temples of Jagadamba is there, not of Jagatpita?

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by arjun » 14 Aug 2012

According to my knowledge, Shiv ling worshipped in different forms by many religions. It is believed by many people that the stone in Mecca also was initially a Shiv ling. So- do PBKs believe that even other religions believe that shivling represents phallus of Shankar?
Shivling or phallus shaped idols have been found in excavations all over the world.
I have already explained many times as to what Shivling represents. Why do you want to limit it to just the phallus of Shankar?
Now- can it be due to wrong shooting of PBKs (claiming ling represents phallus) that comes in Bhaktimarg and people start to believe the same?
You are free to imagine anything. Time will tell what the truth is.
so- there are Murli points which say ling stands for star or point. but no Murli point says ling is body or phallus.
That's for primary school children. You are free to study in a primary class.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 14 Aug 2012

Shivling or phallus shaped idols have been found in excavations all over the world.
Does not that imply that the ling is something that is accepted by universal. All believe in incorporeal and not in Shankar or worship of reproductive organ. so- is it not a proof that- ling is not an organ?
Why do you want to limit it to just the phallus of Shankar?
I am not at all limting. i am saying that- I feel shivling is not an organ as assumed by PBKs or some of the Hindus.

It is indians who defame God maximum. And I think- saying ling as reproductive organ is one of the highest defaming of God. since indians made the most pure incorporeal symbol as ordinary and impure, other religions could not respect indians.

This is my view. May be primary class.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by Rudraakash » 14 Aug 2012

SM 17-6-72(2):- Baap aaye sabhi ko padhaate hain. VAH HAI NIRAAKAAR STAR, LING ROOP MAY RAKHAA HAI SAMJHAANE LIYE. -195understand.
VAH HAI NIRAAKAAR STAR,
LING ROOP
(DEAR BHATT
JUST SKETCH AND SHOW ME THE 'LING ROOP' IF ITS NOT MALE ORGAN?)
MAY RAKHAA HAI SAMJHAANE LIYE.

Why did it keep in LING SHAPE to understanding?, he does't talk absurd like you, Shiva is known as 'AMOGH VIRYA' whose VIGOR NEVER DISCHARGE. And its rememberance is show in AMARMATH BY STANDING ICE LING,
mean he has won over the sex, which is only possible to controlling over the LING or PHALLUS.
Bindi likney se koyi samajh na sake. Tum samjhaa sakte ho atma ek star hai, Baap bhi star hai
But still you are not understanding that why and how is bindu baap kept in LING OR PHALLUS, but its Pity on you because still you do't know the mean of LING.

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Re: Flaws in PBK philosophy.

Post by mbbhat » 14 Aug 2012

1)JUST SKETCH AND SHOW ME THE 'LING ROOP' IF ITS NOT MALE ORGAN?
2)mean he has won over the sex, which is only possible to controlling over the LING or PHALLUS.
1) i have quoted even from Swami Vivekananda's statement. He also said it is wrong. And even many Hindus also do not believe so.

Now, my further churning- Baba says- in olden days - sages used to say neti, neti about Ishwar. There was no Gyan(belief) of sarvavyaapi initially. Later they said- Ishwar is sarvavyaapi, everyone is god, I am sri sri sri 108 Jagadguru.

So- intially- there might have belief that ling represents incorporeal form (Baba also explains same in Murli).

So- I think- there are also hemispherical and oval shapes of shivling. In Karantaka state lingayats used to worship shivling by holding it in their hands. It was hemisphere form.

So- actually - the initial intention would be to make it spherical or oval. But since it needs to sit properly (so that it does not roll), it might have been made as hemisphere. Later to make it visible from far distance its height would have increased so that it appears as phallus.

And since later, people forgot that shiv is incorporeal and equated shiv = Shankar, then they could not have understood what the existing ling represents. Then the male organ concept might have come.
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2) If you believe that it represents the one who won sex, then can such a person's organ get erected? The ling shown in temple is in erected form- is it not?

So- do you mean to say- Mr. dixit's organ gets erected? [If you are willing, you may explain more- whether the organ gets erected but sperm does not come out, or any amount of sperm comes out- the power does not diminish, like that]
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Moreover- the ling is not exact shape of the male organ. Because the organ has skin outside and its diameter is not constant through out its height. The diameter remains almost contant, but near to end, it increases a little bit and then almost a hemisphere at the end.

Now- if in the beginning itself- the devotees have had thought that - ling means organ, then why did they made it as perfect cylinder (spherical prism) or spherical pillar) shape and a hemisphere on top? There should have been some irregularities representing the organ properly- is it not?
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AMOGH VIRYA' whose VIGOR NEVER DISCHARGE.
you may explain the term amoghavirya fully- if you like.

In Mahabharat- it is written that some (mostly about some Gandharvas) have such a power that any amount of sperm comes out- their power does not decrease.

So- what do the present devotees who believe ling as organ understand by the term amoghavirya?- whether Shankar's organ does not get erected at all (since he has won sex) or even if it erects, any amonut of sperm comes out- his power does not diminish....
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I think- they believe the second- Hence they believe that shiv/Shankar is the highest power. That is why they say- Shiv ling represents power of Purush. [i have not gone into full details. ]

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