Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 03 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 145) More of 'Kanras' or Juggling exercises of Mr Dixit to sustain his DECEPTIVE 'Yagya'

Mr. Dixit, under the ACTIVE influence of Ravan or Maya, in the 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya in the Cnf Age, tries his LEVEL BEST to sustain his DECEPTIVE 'Yagya' by propagating CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED interpretations from 'tamopradhan Bhakti' scriptures, CRAFTILY MINGLED & MIXED with MISAPPROPRIATED & MISREPRESENTED points from the SMs and AVs. PBKs DELUSIVELY believe they are listening to some so-called ADVANCED KNOWLEDGE. But, we can see the REAL TRUTH here.
sita wrote:There was the matter that the more powerful enters the less powerful one, but the PBKs say that the soul of Ram is more powerful, but they also say that now the bull is riding over Shankar. The soul of Ram is human Father, and there are all types of souls in the world, he is Father to the good and bad ones both, Father to the best of best and the worst of worst, he climbs up the highest and falls the lowest, whilst the horoscope of Krishna has been compared to the one of Christ. For the Christians it is said that they don't climb up so high and don't fall down so much, they still retain some purity of the intellect, whilst Indians become completely stone like intellects. So the soul of Brahma Baba is more powerful with respect to purity.
1) Regarding rashi/horoscope of Krishn and Christ - sufficient number of Murli points put here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ilit=rashi

Now, PBKs, AS USUAL, just CONSIDER ONLY the tail of the 'elephant' and say B Baba is Krishna, comparable to the soul of Christ, and hence does not rise fully up and hence does not fall fully down. But, see the ridiculous, and double standards in points below.

2) PBKs themselves believe Mr Dixit is Conf. Aged Krishna. So, does not the same theory apply to him ALSO?

3) But, a great blow to PBKs is already specified in the Murli point - Error No. 18- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=49631&hilit=accurate#p49631 which says- the first prince of Golden Age, Shri Krishna is the one who plays FULLY ACCURATE role, and his entrance in the womb is the REFERENCE point for the calculation of 5000-year period of the Cycle.

So- whatever PBKs may try to claim or prove by their ignorant or false, MISAPPROPRIATED & MISREPRESENTED theories, this single Murli point is SUFFICIENT to COMPLETELY DISCREDIT their false and malicious theories OUT-RIGHT.

4) Now- in the word BapDada - PBKs believe BAP = Shiv plus Dixit (of course, having absolutely no logic or support from any Murlis), and Dada = B Baba.
But, the Murli point says- BapDada are ALWAYS combined, or VERY CLOSE to each other. It is also clearly said- you may remember either ShivBaba or even Dada. - viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2624&p=50120&hilit=rahegee#p50120

So, without any doubt- Dada(B baba) is very next to Bap(Father). Even if PBKs add Mr Dixit into the word 'Bap' (by playing their role of HK hood, as exactly in previous Kalpa), still they CANNOT SEPARATE 'Dada' from 'Bap'.
Obviously, B Baba will get seat of at least the 2nd position (AS PER THEIR OWN DISTORTED VIEW, AS WELL) .
So, how can PBKs say- B Baba does not come in Rudramala or Vijaymala or the first 4.5 lakh category?

5) Again, regarding- "Bull controlling Shankar or viceversa"- it seems that PBKs believe/admit that MOST OF THE TIME in Conf. Age B baba would be more powerful than Mr Dixit.
So, if - during shooting period, this is the situation, then obviously, in the outer 5000-year drama, same thing should get replicated, is it not?

6) RIDICULOUSLY, PBKs say- Mr Dixit (and PBKs) would be having very good births throughout the Kalpa, and only in the last birth Mr Dixit would be poor, or something like that. So, how come they say- It is Mr Dixit ONLY who completely falls down? *

Now- if physical condition of poverty, etc of the last birth are the criteria to determine whether a soul is completely fallen/impure, then are not PBKs inadvertently saying one who is comparatively richer cannot gallop fast in effort? Are not they closing their door to them?

*- I am not against this. But, Mr Dixit tried to differentiate between himself and B Baba, so differently, and fell into his OWN pit - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... pati#p4070 [Baba is comparing impure ORDINARY CORPOREAL BODY of Brahma Baba in Conf Age with his OWN pure ROYAL CORPOREAL DEITY BODY as Krishna in Golden Age, hence says his body is ordinary, in this CONTEXT, but Mr. Dixit compared himself with Brahma Baba in Conf Age itself].

As Mr Dixit was poor in the last birth, he tried to compare this with B baba. But again falling into his OWN pit is seen here in error No. 05 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=48800&hilit=ordinary#p48800

7) By taking isolated Murli points and even comparing only to a little extent (in the horoscope issue stated above), PBKs are like inadvertently following persons who believe "Man = Monkey or ancestors of Man are monkeys".

Mostly- Mr. Dixit may also be saying- in the point No. 01, that- "It is BKs who have taken their Kingdom/Yagya in the beginning, and in the end (just to misinterpret the Murli points on rashi/horoscope), PBKs will take it back again". DO PBKs SAY SO?
But, Murli point clearly says- those children who had been in Yagya initially for 5, 10 yrs, etc., had left Yagya by getting influenced by Maya and had entered into stomach of python. So- even if PBKs say so, their claim would not have any value, as they themselves believe Sevakram and the other two souls themselves had left Yagya due to loss of faith.

Mr Dixit tried to provide entertainment to PBKs, like in 'harikathas' in 'Bhakti', where there is 'kanras', but absolutely there is neither involvement of God nor any PURE & ACCURATE Godly Knowledge in their false and malicious theories.

8) Moreover- regarding- Bull controlling Shankar, and vice versa- Guru of PBKs says- the entire Yagya was under control of PBK souls till 1947 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50371&hilit=entire#p50371 , but, here, they say- Bull controls Shankar from 1969/1976. ARE NOT THEY AGAIN CONTRADICTING WITH THEMSELVES? How come PBK souls were able to control entire Yagya till 1947 then? [if they are more degraded]? :laugh:

But, a ridiculous or an OPEN SECRET here is- PBKs now inadvertently imply that from 1969, even AIVV Yagya/Chariot is under control of B Baba, by saying that 'Bull' controls 'Shankar'. And- we can see that it is true. PBKs still depend on Murlis and Vanis of BKWSU even after 1969. ;-)

9) So, once again we can clearly see here- by 'inviting' soul of DLR into himself, and calling Dada to B baba, Mr Dixit and PBKs committed IRREVERSIBLE spiritual suicide. They can never come out of this VICIOUS clutch or GRIP of Ravan or Maya. More they try to justify, more deeper they will keep on falling, just as when someone who falls into a SWAMP or BOG or QUAGMIRE - the MORE HE STRUGGLES THE MORE HE SINKS DEEPER DOWN!

APPROPRIATE CLARIFICATIONS ARE BEING PROVIDED (IN BRACKETS) for your above post asf -
== There was the matter that the more powerful enters the less powerful one, (SPIRITUALLY, ONLY a MORE POWERFUL soul can RIDE or ENTER the CORPOREAL or SUBTLE body of another soul, who HAS ESSENTIALLY TO BE A WEAKER ONE, for such OCCURRENCE to take place - examples being REAL ShivBaba or God entering the body of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR; Soul of Christ entering the body of Jesus of Nazareth; etc. It is to be noted that the soul of Christ is APPARENTLY more powerful than the soul of Jesus, with reference to ONLY that period within the Cycle; but the soul of Jesus, who is one of the Narayans of Golden Age, is more powerful than the soul of Christ with reference to the ENTIRE CYCLE), but the PBKs say that the soul of Ram is more powerful, (the PBKs ONLY DELUSIVELY BELIEVE this to be so, ACCORDING to the MISAPPROPRIATED & MISREPRESENTED interpretations of the SMs and AVs - however, it is TRUE that he is APPARENTLY more powerful within Ravan Rajya or the SEMI-CIRCLE of the Cycle) but they also say that now the 'bull' is riding over 'Shankar' (if the 'bull' is considered to be the soul of DLR in his subtle body, who is SUPPOSED to be 'riding' over 'Shankar' or -Virendra Dev Dixit in his corporeal body, according to -Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs, then it naturally follows that the soul of DLR is MORE PURE, MORE INTELLIGENT & MORE POWERFUL than the soul of -Virendra Dev Dixit). The soul of Ram is human Father, (but the word 'Ram', used in the SMs, is referring to the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God, and NOT to the 'Ram', which is the designation of the HIGHEST SOVEREIGN of Silver Age), and there are all types of souls in the world, he is Father to the good and bad ones both, (the GOOD and the BAD ones EXIST ONLY in Ravan Rajya, and is a CONCEPT of Ravan Rajya, and NOT RamRajya, where ONLY GOOD ones exist. RamRajya is established by TRUE or REAL 'Ram', REAL ShivBaba or God, THROUGH REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, who is the first prince and first emperor of the Golden Age); ==

sita
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 04 Mar 2016

Praise, scriptures, festivals, memorials are for the Sangamyug. For Cnf Krishna it is said Shyam Sundar. He becomes Shyam Sundar in the Confluence Age. He plays black as well as a white role in the Confluence Age. On the picture of the Ladder Brahma Baba is shown standing, whilst the soul of Bharat (Cnf Krishna) is lying down on the bed of nails.

Beggar means one should not have any name fame and recognition. It is not only about money. Beggar is also someone who does not have shelter. From beggar, he (Cnf Krishna) becomes prince in the Confluence Age, not in the next birth.

Cnf Krishna is also head of the Yadavas, he inspires the Mahabharata war for destruction, so it is the same role of Shankar. Christians also play destructive role, so the horoscope matches.

The soul of Brahma Baba becomes more powerful on leaving the body. He does not have bondage of the corporeal body, he has a subtle body.

Bap and Dada are together they cannot be separated, Dada is dear child. You say that Dada Lekraj should come in number two, but in the Murli it is said that he comes in number one, not in number two. He comes in number one, because the soul of Shiv does not come into calculation. The soul of Shiv is not number one. The soul of Krishna becomes number one in the Golden Age. He is the first leaf. He is not the seed.

The calculation that the counting of the New Age begins with the entrance of the soul of Cnf Krishna in the womb refers to the Confluence Age. In the womb, the nonliving body is forming for few months and then in that the soul enters and it becomes alive, it starts moving. In the same way in 76 some movement started to take place in the Brahmin family, when the soul of the SagamYugy Krishna gets revealed. For 10 years there used to have been said again and again that the old age will finish and New Age will begin in 1976.

Ramrajya is opposed to Ravan Rajya. Both are there at the same time in the Confluence Age. In Ramrajya there is one language, one direction, one family, one king, one religion, one rule. The Yogi people used to find pleasure and relief in residing about with their mind in the soul of Ram. Indeed it is the soul of the supreme Father, who plays that role. Ravan was also a knowledge full Brahmin, but he used to make people cry.

About remembering Brahma it is said to remember Brahma, because we cannot remember a soul without a body. We cannot have connection with ShivBaba without Brahma. We can only have connection with ShivBaba, when he enters in a corporeal body, that is named Brahma. When we remember ShivBaba the body of Brahma will surely also come in our mind first. First the body and then the soul, because the body of Brahma is the address of the Supreme Father. It is about remembering a living corporeal image of God in front of you, not Brahma from the past.

mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 04 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 146) Whole foundation of PBKs DESTROYED by THEIR OWN DEFAULT VIEW:-
Mr. Dixit has inadvertently DESTROYED the whole foundation of PBKs by not only false interpretations, but also false assumptions.
sita wrote:Praise, scriptures, festivals, memorials are for the Sangamyug.
1)Not of just Sangamyug, BUT ALSO of Satyug. It is of both braahmins and deities. Any GOOD DEED, as well as PURE STAGES are praised or worshiped.
For Cnf Krishna it is said Shyam Sundar. He becomes Shyam Sundar in the Confluence Age.
2)No Murli point says so. PBKs may say- My cock has three legs. So, it is just in their OWN view ONLY.
On the picture of the Ladder Brahma Baba is shown standing, whilst the soul of Bharat (Cnf Krishna) is lying down on the bed of nails
3)The underlined words are added by Dixit. In the picture it indicates country India/Bharat and not to a single person. But, even if we agree to PBKs here, then see point 4) below.

4)PBKs are yet to explain how Mr. Sevakarm and Dixit were lying down on the bed of nails in 1937, and in 1969 (or 1976). PBKs believe Mr Dixit had very good births in almost all the 83 births, except the last one. How come it is like lying down? Or/Also what actions of Mr Dixit made him to lie down all of a sudden?
Beggar means one should not have any name fame and recognition. It is not only about money. Beggar is also someone who does not have shelter. From beggar, he (Cnf Krishna) becomes prince in the Confluence Age, not in the next birth.
5)We can see here how Mr. Dixit cooked up the theory. Beggar can mean many things- poor, one who has no ego. If PBKs say- Mr Dixit is number one beggar(or number one lustful thorn) in the last birth, then PROVE IT!
More interesting is- PBKs say- Sevakram was much better or MORE intelligent in business*, etc., than DLR, and was even head of Yagya from 1937 till 1942. So, how come he was a beggar THEN? Or do PBKs believe SEVAKRAM WAS NOT A BEGGAR, BUT DIXIT IS A BEGGAR? [Sevakram had shelter, is it not?] [*- just to put DLR down???] :laugh:

6)So far, PBKs have never said- when EXACTLY Mr Dixit plays DIFFERENT roles of Conf Age Ram, Krishna, Narayan, Shankar, Prajapita, etc. If you like, you may say from which year to which year Mr Dixit plays role of beggar and prince and emperor, etc.
Just by saying something like 'harikathas/kanras' does not explain any knowledge.
SUCH TALL STORIES CAN ONLY ENTERTAIN SPIRITUAL IDIOTS, like the PBKs, SUPERFICIALLY.
Cnf Krishna is also head of the Yadavas, he inspires the Mahabharata war for destruction, so it is the same role of Shankar. Christians also play destructive role, so the horoscope matches.
7) Do you mean to say- Mr Dixit is head of mainly Christians and not of other religions in the same way? If yes, how?
The soul of Brahma Baba becomes more powerful on leaving the body. He does not have bondage of the corporeal body, he has a subtle body.
8)Just by leaving corporeal body, one does not become powerful. There are many ghosts in this world. But, ghosts cannot enter any person. Ghosts can enter only weak people. By calling B Baba ghost, and giving statement "just by leaving corporeal body one becomes powerful", PBKs are inadvertently IMPLYING Mr Dixit to be TOTALLY WEAK - A COMPLETE SPIRITUAL WEAKLING. Mr Dixit then automatically and fully goes out of all the SPIRITUAL TRACKS even from lowkik points of view. A GHOST ENTERING INTO THE LEADER OF AIVV FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS! AND PBKs BELIEVE IT IS ALL RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY NOT AT ALL WEIRD???
Bap and Dada are together they cannot be separated, Dada is dear child. You say that Dada Lekraj should come in number two, but in the Murli it is said that he comes in number one, not in number two.
9)I have said NUMBER TWO- "in PBK VIEW" PBKs believe Mr Dixit is number one human soul. So, I said at least in PBk view, soul of B baba would get the next position. In BK view, DLR is number one human soul or next to God. If we give number one position to God, then DLR is number two, else he is number one. It does not matter for me if you consider Shiv to be number one or say- Shiv cannot be compared. Please try to understand the POINT OF DISCUSSION.
He comes in number one, because the soul of Shiv does not come into calculation. The soul of Shiv is not number one. The soul of Krishna becomes number one in the Golden Age. He is the first leaf. He is not the seed.
10) Prajapita is not seed. See post No. 204- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 659#p15659 I have clearly read mu point No. 02, but at present unable to give date. But, mu point No. 01 is enough to say that Prajapita is not seed.]
By PUTTING DLR down, Mr. Dixit falls into his own pit again and again. PBKs say- Prajapita is seed, but Murli point GOES AGAINST IT.
OK, STILL LET US AGREE WITH PBKs. If we say- Prajapita is SEED, then PBK theory again goes out of logic, because in that case, in PBK view CREATION happens WITHOUT MOTHER! BECAUSE in PBK VIEW, PRAJAPITA IS JUST Father, DOES NOT PLAY ROLE OF MOTHER, AND THE OTHER TWO MOTHERS- KAMALA DEVI or DLR ARE NOT INSIDE/PART OF/WITH THE SEED. [In BK view, it does not matter even if Prajapita is considered to be seed, such a great contradiction does not result, as BKs believe Prajapita is Father as well as mother].

SO- PBKs ARE GIVING JUST 'KANRAS' or HEARSAY IN THEIR TEACHINGS, like every religion of the outer world teaches to its own followers. SIMILARLY, THEIR SO CALLED ADVANCED KNOWLEDGE IS NOTHING BUT 'DOWNFALL', WHICH IS CLEARLY EVIDENT.
WE CAN SEE Mr Dixit PLAYING ROLE OF HK HOOD BY TAKING THE TITLE OF 'SEED' ON TO HIMSELF, he COMMITTED SPIRITUAL SUICIDE IN TWO WAYS AS HIGHLIGHTED ABOVE.
The calculation that the counting of the New Age begins with the entrance of the soul of Cnf Krishna in the womb refers to the Confluence Age. In the womb, the nonliving body is forming for few months and then in that the soul enters and it becomes alive, it starts moving. In the same way in 76 some movement started to take place in the Brahmin family, when the soul of the SagamYugy Krishna gets revealed. For 10 years there used to have been said again and again that the old age will finish and New Age will begin in 1976.
11)JUST 'KANRAS' OR JUGGLING EXERCISES. AS Murli POINT CLEARLY SAYS- KRISHN AANEY KEE GHADEE DIKHAATE HAIN, AND PBKs QUOTE THEM EXTENSIVELY TO PROVE THEIR LOGIC, BUT AGAIN WE CAN SEE THEIR SUICIDE HERE. So far, they have not been able to say- either these instants, or the duration of the roles said in point No. 06 above.

12)Now, another automatic question arises- Is year 1936/7, when God did his first entrance more related to BEGINNING OF TIME CYCLE or the year 1976 when Conf Age ended (as per PBK view)?
More PBKs try to justify their claims by putting everything on to the year 1976, they are falling deeper into their OWN TRAP. Was not Sevakram revealed to braahmin family in 1937? Is Sevakram not fit to be called as Conf. Aged Krishna, Narayan, Ram, etc, but only fit for the title of Prajapita?
Ramrajya is opposed to Ravan Rajya. Both are there at the same time in the Confluence Age. In Ramrajya there is one language, one direction, one family, one king, one religion, one rule. The Yogi people used to find pleasure and relief in residing about with their mind in the soul of Ram. Indeed it is the soul of the supreme Father, who plays that role. Ravan was also a knowledge full Brahmin, but he used to make people cry.
13)Great points dear soul. It is now becoming almost clear that if a 'braahmin' plays role of Ravan, then it fits best to none other than Mr Dixit. BTW, you may say who is Ravan as per PBK view, if you like.
About remembering Brahma ... It is about remembering a living corporeal image of God in front of you, not Brahma from the past.
14)Murli point clearly says - "Dada", not just BRAHMA. By saying B Baba as Dada, Mr Dixit has committed a terrible suicide, which is clearly EVIDENT here. Even if PBKs try to justify their claims by hook or crook, they are futile.

Very simple logic. Mr Dixit says- B Baba as Dada = eldest brother. How is he eldest brother? Can any PBK explain this? [If PBKs believe B baba does not come in first 4.5 lakh souls, how can he be eldest brother ? [IN PBK VIEW]

By inviting soul of B baba in himself, Mr Dixit gave that title to B Baba, but went on committing countless errors, like what we can see in Bhakti scriptures. In Bhakti scriptures, we can still find some essence, as it glorifies God, but in PBK philosophy, even position of Incorporeal God is brought to zero level, and it is just 'bhoot-pooja' (worshiping of ghosts) - aiming to always think of the impure body of Mr Dixit, as well as seeing only ghost even in pure angel DLR. :laugh:

Let them enjoy it as per their sanskaars or roles within drama.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 04 Mar 2016

At the time the Murli was spoken it was Brahma Baba - Dada who used to play the role of Brahma.

APPROPRIATE CLARIFICATIONS ARE BEING PROVIDED (IN BRACKETS) for your earlier post of 04 Mar 16, asf -
== Praise, scriptures, festivals, memorials are for the Sangamyug (on the Path of Devotion or ‘Bhaktimarg’ of Ravan Rajya of the outer broad drama - Praise, Festivals, Memorials, Pictures, Scriptures, etc., also pass through the stages from Sathopradhan to Sato to Rajopradhan to Tamo to Tamopradhanthe ACCURATE ‘shooting’ of which takes place CORRESPONDINGLY in the Conf Age. Therefore, the UNDERSTANDING/COMPREHENSION/CLARIFICATION of the PURE Knowledge spoken by REAL ShivBaba or God THROUGH the ‘Lotus Mouth’ of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, ALSO passes through the stages from Sathopradhan to Sato to Rajopradhan to Tamo to Tamopradhan, when APPARENT ‘ShivBaba’ or Ravan, THROUGH the ‘Bogus Mouth’ of APPARENT ‘Prajapita Brahma’ or soul of -Virendra Dev Dixit, who is the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as the ‘mukrar-rath’ of REAL ShivBaba or God, COMPLETELY CORRUPTS & ADULTERATES every Version of the SMs and AVs, to be in ACCURATE CONSONANCE with the PERVERTED & DISTORTED CONCEPTS of ‘Tamopradhan Bhakti’ or DEGRADED DEVOTION - depending on the respective roles of respective souls within Drama). For Cnf Krishna it is said Shyam Sundar (REAL Cnf Krishna is the soul of DLR, in whom the DIMINISHING or MERGING NEGATIVE or black tendencies CONTINUE to exist, as the DEVELOPING or EMERGING POSITIVE or white tendencies CONTINUE to EVOLVE, during the process of TRANSFORMATION in Conf Age, and hence he is remembered as ‘Shyam Sundar’). He becomes Shyam Sundar in the Confluence Age (the soul of DLR has ALREADY become COMPLETELY ‘Sundar’ from ‘Shyam’ in 1976. ‘Shyam Sundar’ has TWO SPECIFIC INTERPRETATIONS(1) ‘Shyam Sundar’ means the ONE who TRANSFORMS souls from Shyam to Sundar, who is a REAL ShivBaba or God; and (2) ‘Shyam Sundar’ means the one who gets TRANSFORMED from Shyam to Sundar – the MAIN ONE being the soul of REAL Prajapita Brahma or soul of DLR, followed by the other Righteous Children. WHEREAS, APPARENT ‘ShivBaba’ or Ravan, performs the REVERSE FUNCTION, in the Conf Age, through the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit). He plays black as well as a white role in the Confluence Age (during the process of TRANSFORMATION from ‘Shyam’ to Sundar’ in the Conf Age, both the NEGATIVE as well as the POSITIVE tendencies exist in the soul of DLR). On the picture of the Ladder Brahma Baba is shown standing, whilst the soul of Bharat (Cnf Krishna) is lying down on the bed of nails (on the picture of the Ladder, at the bottom, the person shown lying down represents the VERY SAME soul of DLR, who is the REAL personified ‘Bharat’, shown in a beggar form, owing to his lack of, and craving for Divine Virtues, Celestial Arts and Spiritual Powers, at the very FAG END of the Iron Age. When the VERY SAME soul of DLR received the PURE Knowledge from REAL ShivBaba or God, as well as his own TRUE introduction, THROUGH his OWN ‘Lotus Mouth’, as REAL Prajapita Brahma or Brahma Baba, he is shown standing, having received the CLEAR DIRECTIONS from God, as how to REGAIN his lost Divine Virtues, Celestial Arts and Spiritual Powers, ONCE AGAIN! Hence the image of the person shown lying down on a bed of nails, representing the VICES, and the image of the person shown standing up, after receiving the Knowledge, is of the ONE and SAME soul of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLRthe first image represents his condition at the very end of Iron Age, while the second image represents his status in the Conf Age.)

Beggar means one should not have any name fame and recognition (the soul of DLR did not have any name, fame or recognition in his youth; and what he achieved later on, was nothing compared to the ‘name, fame or recognition’ in relation to the outer world). It is not only about money. Beggar is also someone who does not have shelter (the soul of DLR did not have the SPIRITUAL SHELTER of God, and was EXTREMELY HUNGRY for same, hence he was a TRUE SPIRITUAL BEGGAR). From beggar, he (Cnf Krishna) becomes prince in the Confluence Age, not in the next birth (the soul of DLR or Brahma Baba has ALREADY ACHIEVED the status of prince in Conf Age itself, hence he is the TRUE or REAL Cnf Krishna, who becomes the first prince of Golden Age, by virtue of having become the first prince in Conf Age).

Cnf Krishna is also head of the Yadavas, he inspires the Mahabharata war for destruction, so it is the same role of Shankar (this SPECIFIC function and the role of ‘Shankar’ is ACTUALLY played by REAL ShivBaba or God THROUGH REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR himself; and this is the reason why Shiva is MIXED with ‘Shankar’). Christians also play destructive role, so the horoscope matches (the horoscope of ‘Chris’ matches with the horoscope of ‘Krish’, who is the first prince of Conf Age, by virtue of which he becomes the first prince of Golden Age).

The soul of Brahma Baba becomes more powerful on leaving the body. He does not have bondage of the corporeal body, he has a subtle body (the one who achieves TOTAL FREEDOM from the bondage of the corporeal body FIRST, is the VERY FIRST or NUMBER ONE soul, among all embodied souls on the corporeal sphere) .

Bap (refers to ONLY ONE Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God, and NONE OTHER) and Dada (refers to ONLY ONE REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR and NONE OTHER) are together they cannot be separated, Dada is dear child (Dada, as a soul, is NUMBER ONE dear Child of God; and Bap, as the Supreme Soul, is the REAL SPIRITUAL Father). You say that Dada Lekraj should come in number two, but in the Murli is said that he comes in number one, not in number two (this was with reference to the FALSE CLAIM made by APPARENT ‘Prajapita Brahma’, -Virendra Dev Dixit, and DELUSIVELY believed by the BLIND followers, that he is number one, in which case, Dada or soul of DLR should have been, at least number TWO, ACCORDING to the CORRUPTED philosophy of -Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs, but they fail to acknowledge that, when they do not consider him to be part of even their CORRUPTED ‘Trimurti’, etc).
He comes in number one, because the soul of Shiv does not come into calculation. The soul of Shiv is not number one. The soul of Krishna becomes number one in the Golden Age. He is the first leaf. He is not the seed (the REAL ‘Seed’ of the human world tree is ONLY the ONE Supreme Father, Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God; WHILE the soul of -Virendra Dev Dixit, who is the last sovereign of Silver Age, represents the ‘seed’ of the human world tree of ONLY Ravan Rajya, representing the SEMI-CIRCLE of the Cycle).

The calculation that the counting of the New Age begins with the entrance of the soul of Cnf Krishna in the womb refers to the Confluence Age. In the womb, the non-living body is forming for few months and then in that the soul enters and it becomes alive, it starts moving. In the same way in 76 some movement started to take place in the Brahmin family, when the soul of the SagamYugy Krishna gets revealed. For 10 years there used to have been said again and again that the old age will finish and New Age will begin in 1976 (refers to the REAL Cnf Krishna or soul of DLR, who is the first prince of Conf Age, who then becomes the first prince of Golden Age).

Ramrajya is opposed to Ravan Rajya. Both are there at the same time in the Confluence Age (both the REAL prince of Conf Age, instrumental to carry out the ‘shooting’ of RamRajya, as well as the FALSE prince of Conf Age, instrumental to carry out the ‘shooting’ of Ravan Rajya, exist simultaneously in the Conf Age). In Ramrajya there is one language, one direction, one family, one king, one religion, one rule. The Yogi people used to find pleasure and relief in residing about with their mind in the soul of Ram (refers to the TRUE or REAL Ram, Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God). Indeed it is the soul of the supreme Father, who plays that role (Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God plays this role through His ‘mukrar-rath’ of REAL Prajapita Brahma or soul of DLR). Ravan was also a knowledge full Brahmin, but he used to make people cry (Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as APPARENT ‘ShivBaba’, through the ‘mukrar-rath’ of Ravan, MASQUERADING as APPARENT ‘Prajapita Brahma’ or APPARENT ‘Shankar’, is a knowledge-full ‘Brahmin’, who is instrumental to carry out the ‘shooting’ of Ravan Rajya, and who makes the Unrighteous children 'cry', by propagating the REVERSED advanced –knowledge).

About remembering Brahma it is said to remember Brahma, because we cannot remember a soul without a body. We cannot have connection with ShivBaba without Brahma. We can only have connection with ShivBaba, when he enters in a corporeal body, that is named Brahma. When we remember ShivBaba the body of Brahma will surely also come in our mind first. First the body and then the soul, because the body of Brahma is the address of the Supreme Father (FIRST of all, this refers SPECIFICALLY to the soul of DLR, and NOT to the soul of -Virendra Dev Dixit, which Ravan or Maya HIJACKS to make it apply to -Virendra Dev Dixit, to facilitate the ‘shooting’ of Ravan Rajya; SECONDLY, this applies ONLY FOR THE PERIOD when the individual soul is ALSO TRAPPED in some form of body-consciousness, to facilitate the TRANSFORMATION from body-consciousness to soul-consciousness. Since Ravan or Maya succeeds in TRAPPING the Unrighteous children or PBKs in ABJECT body-consciousness with the propagation of the REVERSED advanced knowledge, this would apply to them UNTIL the TIME of ACTUAL DESTRUCTION or FINAL TRANSFORMATION). It is about remembering a living corporeal image of God in front of you, not Brahma from the past (ONLY for AS LONG AS the individual soul is ALSO TRAPPED in ABJECT body-consciousness. Once the individual soul becomes COMPLETELY soul-conscious NO INTERMEDIARY MEDIUM is required for relating DIRECTLY to the Supreme Father Supreme Soul or God). ==

Interested viewers may also like to review the clarifications provided at the bottom of following posts -

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&start=540#p51062

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2552&start=60#p50652

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by Roy » 04 Mar 2016

mbbhat wrote:Prajapita is not seed. See post No. 204- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 659#p15659
"For example, there are Christians. Their seed form is Christ. Who is your seed form? Father Shiv. Because Father only comes and establishes heaven through (Prajapita)Brahma(aka Ram as heaven is yet to be established and Brahma Baba Krishna has no body to create through). Brahma (Baba Krishna) only is called as Prajapita (presently, in the absence of the true Prajapita, he is the title holder), not creator. Through him, children are created (i.e. the Brahmin religion is established). Brahma (Baba Krishna) is also created, is it not (via Prajapita-Ram in the beginning of the Yagya)? Father enters and creates. ShivBaba says - you are my children. Even to Brahma, He says- you are my corporeal child." [Mu 17.10.00]

"(Incorporeal)ShivBaba(i.e. Father Shiv the point) bestows inheritance to Brahmakumaris and Brahmakumars through Prajapita Brahma(Ram). (Incorporeal)ShivBaba creates the Brahmin race through Brahma(Baba Krishna, which is the part of mother, not creator Father)." [Mu 01.03.76]

"Shri Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called Vrikshapati(master or head/husband of the human world tree - the seed). The Supreme Father Supreme Soul is the seed-like creator of the human world (and plays this role when He enters the corporeal Father of humanity, Prajapita - initially, in 1936/7). Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called the creator (because he is the first class creation, the creation of Prajapita-Ram, in Calcutta). He is always a human being with deity-like virtues (who teaches dharna through the body of Dadi Gulzar)." [Mu 22.02.98]

“Children are explained – This is an upside down tree. Its seed is the SupremeFather Supreme Soul. He lives above. He is a living seed, isn’t He? You happen to be (His) children. Many say that there is a soul in all the seeds etc. as well. But it is non-living, isn’t it? The Father (of Humanity aka Prajapita-Ram) is called the living seed-form of the human world (Father Shiv is the Father of all souls, not human beings - although He becomes the living seed when He enters Prajapita-Ram). Well, the human beings sing – O God Father. OK, you will not call the tree as a living ocean of knowledge. Human beings have the knowledge that this is a seed. The seed should certainly have the knowledge of the tree. But because it is non-living, it cannot tell. Human beings understand that the seed is below; the tree has emerged from it. The Kalpa tree and the banian tree are compared with each other. That is non-living and this is living. There is a very big banyan tree in Calcutta (the place that the seed of knowledge was sown in adi Brahma, by Father Shiv, through Prajapita-Ram, in the very beginning of the Confluence Age). Its stem has vanished, only the tree is standing. The foundation is not present. It is a wonder, isn’t it? The Father explains that the foundation of this tree is also not present. The deity religion is almost disappeared. The remaining tree is standing.” [Mu 21.08.08]

"Do you know Prajapita Brahma(aka Ram) and his mouth-born creation (child Krishna Brahma Baba)?" [Mu 17.12.08]

"Establishment (of the Brahmin clan/religion) is carried out through Brahma(Baba Krishna). Brahma(Baba Krishna) cannot be called the creator (Father). That Father (i.e. the true Prajapita aka Ram) is the creator of the unlimited. Prajapita Brahma is also unlimited. If there is Prajapita Brahma, there has to be many people. All of them say: He(i.e. Prajapita-Ram) is the great-great-grandfather. (Incorporeal)Shiv Baba(i.e. Father Shiv the point) is not called the great-great-grandfather... He is the Father of all souls. All souls are brothers. Then, they become brothers and sisters. The head of the unlimited genealogical tree is Prajapita Brahma(aka Ram)." [Mu 24.05.14]

"To have love for the corporeal form (of Prajapita Brahma aka Ram) means to have love for the whole genealogical tree. The corporeal form is not alone... together with Prajapita Brahma(aka Ram), there is the whole family(note the date of this Vani point)." [Av 18.01.70]

"Now you have become Brahmins. You children of Brahma are so few in number. Then you will get transformed from Brahmins to deities, kshatriyas. This is a swadarshan chakkra (discus of self realization). While taking rebirth, we complete (the cycle of) 84 births. These matters are not mentioned in the scriptures. Scriptures have been depicted in the hands of Brahma. It cannot be the Subtle Region dweller Brahma(Baba Krishna). The name is Prajapita Brahma(aka Ram), whom is called Adam, Aadam(i.e. not Brahma Baba Krishna). He(i.e. Prajapita-Ram aka Adam) is the head of the entire genealogical tree. You (true Brahmin children) know that." [Mu 19.04.08]

"The Subtle Region dweller Brahma(Baba Krishna) will not be called Prajapita (after 1968/9). The subjects (praja) will not be created there (in the Subtle Region).?" [Mu 24.11.07]

"He(Prajapita-Ram) is the creator of heaven – he is helpful to everyone. Krishna(Brahma Baba) is a creation himself. He(Brahma Baba Krishna) is the first class flower (or first shoot/leaf) of the garden (of Eden aka the Golden Age)." (Mu 05.02.83]

"Creator (of Heaven) is not said for Brahma(Baba Krishna)." [Mu 13.02.75]

"Prajapita Brahma(aka Ram) is also called creator (of Heaven)." [Mu 26.07.77]

"Brahma(Baba Krishna) is not the Creator of Heaven. Only the Incorporeal Supreme Soul (Shiv) comes and creates Heaven through Prajapita Brahma(aka Ram)." [Mu 02.12.03]

"Prajapita Brahma(aka Ram) is the head(husband or human seed) of the whole genealogical tree. We Brahmins, the mouth-born creation of Brahma, are claiming our inheritance from him(Prajapita-Ram - not Brahma Baba Krishna; who is no longer in corporeal form to give us our practical inheritance, which we have yet to receive)." [Mu 02.12.03]

"Through Prajapita Brahma(aka Ram), (I Father Shiv) give the (practical) property; and Prajapita(Ram) is the only husband of the tree(Vrikshapati, the seed of the Human World Tree)." [No date]

"Brahma(Baba Krishna) who has ascended to the Subtle Regions (in 1968/9), cannot be called Prajapita(the creator Father) - Creation is done(completed) in the Corporeal World, not in the Subtle Regions. So the creator Prajapita has to be in the Corporeal World (until the task of creating the New World is completed at the end)." [Mu 05.11.92]

"The highest on high incorporeal ShivBaba is God. In order to give the inheritance He will certainly come in the body of Brahma.This is Prajapita Brahma(aka Ram); the Subtle Region dweller Brahma(Baba Krishna) will not be called Prajapita. The subjects(praja) will not be created there? We Brahmakumar-kumaris are in corporeal form; so Prajapita Brahma(Ram) is also in corporeal form (for the duration of the Confluence Age)." [Mu 24.11.07]


Roy

====

By now it should become fairly CLEAR to CONCERNED viewers that the VERY SAME points in the SMs and AVs spoken by REAL ShivBaba or God, THROUGH the 'Lotus Mouth' of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of RamRajya, are ALSO used by APPARENT 'ShivBaba' or Ravan, THROUGH the 'Bogus Mouth' of APPARENT 'Prajapita Brahma' or soul of -Virendra Dev Dixit, instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya,
ALL, PERFECTLY, AS PER DRAMA PLAN.

Interested viewers may also like to review the clarifications provided in the post, preceding to this one, in this thread, for better understanding.

SAT

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 05 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 147) PBKs churning/searching just in DARKNESS:-
Roy wrote:Who is your seed form? Father Shiv. Because Father only comes and establishes heaven through (Prajapita)Brahma (aka Ram as heaven is yet to be established and Brahma Baba Krishna has no body to create through). Brahma (Baba Krishna) only is called as Prajapita (presently, in the absence of the true Prajapita, he is the title holder), not creator. [Mu 17.10.00]
1)The underlined words are 'manmats' added by PBKs, under the ACTIVE indoctrination of the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit. Post No. 23 gives enough information about that. Still PBKs may continue to say, "our cock has three legs". - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... SULT#p4075

2)The above is a Sakar Murli point spoken when B Baba was alive. But, PBKs say "no body"!

3)Who was Prajapita from 1942 to 1947 in Yagya during absence of Sevakram? - So far no PBK has been able to explain, obviously their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, is still SCRATCHING his head for a viable answer.
4)Again who was Prajapita from Jan 1969 till 1969 Sept/Nov (when Dixit came to BKWSU) or till 1976 (or till 1980s) when AIVV was actually established?
5)Also- when Mr Dixit had gone to jail, who was Prajapita during that period? - you may ignore this by saying that Mr. Dixit was alive. Left to you.
sita wrote:At the time the Murli was spoken it was Brahma Baba - Dada who used to play the role of Brahma.
6)PBKs are just in the game of 'bhool bhulayyaa ka khel' - where they CANNOT come out of the trap.
I did not get what is said here. Are PBKs saying DLR is not Brahma after 1969? If so, what is the designated name of that personality after 1969?

7)The so called advanced knowledge souls cannot say from which year to which - what all roles - all these souls play in the drama, even if they use names of these souls extensively in their daily discussion classes, and depend heavily in their work of propagation of falsehood..

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 05 Mar 2016

You said in the Murli it is said to remember Brahma, I told that yes, without Brahma it is not possible, then you said, but it is clearly said Dada and I said yes, at that time Dada was Brahma. According to us the method of remembering the Supreme Soul in corporeal body is valid for all times, now also, that's why we need Brahma now in corporeal. It is said that what will happen if this Brahma leaves. Whoever I will enter has to be named Brahma. From this point it becomes clear that Brahma is name of many, more than one, like in the path of Bhakti he is shown with many heads. It is also a Murli point that Brahma is name of many, even to females. You think this applies to lokik world. We think it applies to the Brahmin world. For Brahma it is said that it is an old shoe, old shoe is left and new one is taken. There are many hints in the Murli about the part that will go on after Brahma Baba. So for us remembering in a corporeal body, in Brahma is valid now. For you it is valid for the past - about Brahma Baba. You have even said that it applies for now, remembering in the subtle Brahma, that the Supreme Soul resides there in the Subtle Region, and in that moment I understand you speak against the Shrimat from the Murli, so you are from the community of Ravan.

With regards the soul of Christ, if we compare the soul of Christ and the soul of Jesus, the soul of Jesus is a deity soul who comes in the Golden and Silver ages, becomes number wise Narayan, has followed the Godly knowledge to some extent, etc. The soul of Christ comes only after the Copper Age and comes with different sanskars.

Every soul passes through stages. It is not that the soul of Jesus is weaker than the soul of Christ, if we compare their initial stages. After the soul of Jesus has already taken many births and has become weakened in the course of time, the soul of Christ can enter him at that moment. The soul of Christ would not be able to enter the soul of Jesus in his most powerful form of a deity.

Just as the soul of Christ enters Jesus and drags him in his own religion in the Copper Age, in the same way the soul of Jesus will pull the soul of Christ to the Godly knowledge in the Confluence Age.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by Roy » 05 Mar 2016

mbbhat wrote:The underlined words are manmaths added by PBKs. Post No. 23 gives enough information aboyut that. Still PBKs may continue to say our cock has three legs. - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... SULT#p4075
"Except the one Shiv, no one else can be called as Creator (But the part of being the living seed of the human world tree, is played through Prajapita-Ram, from 1936/7 - not Brahna Baba Krishna, who is created through the knowledge/clarifications received through Prajapita-Ram, in Calcutta)." [Mu 18.10.72]

"Supreme God Father creates (Heaven) through (Prajapita) Brahma(aka Ram). Brahma(Baba Krishna) is not (the) creator (Father in practical form - this role is played through Prajapita-Ram, from 1936/7, in Calcutta)." [Mu 13.06.82]

"Father Himself explains, that Prajapita Brahma cannot be called as creator. Of course, he is called as Prajapita(Father of humanity), but he is not the creator. People say, that Allah created us. The only incorporeal Father is called as creator (but He plays this role through Prajapita-Ram, the human seed of the world tree - not Brahma Baba Krishna, the first leaf/shoot of this world tree, who is created through the clarifications received through Prajapita-Ram, in 1936/7, in Calcutta)" [Mu 30.09.83]

"... when there is Jagadamba (Gita Mata - not Mama) in Sakar, even Jagatpita(Ram - not Brahma Baba) would also be in Sakar... Both of these definitely can be called as creators (because through them, Father Shiv creates the first leaf of the world tree, in 1936/7 - i.e. Brahma Baba Krishna)." [Mu 30.05.82]

"Creator of Heaven is (actually Incorporeal) ShivBaba (i.e. Father Shiv), not (Prajapita) Brahma(aka Ram). (But) (Prajapita) Brahma(aka Ram) is (given) the (title of) creator of Humanity (because it is through his corporeal body that this part/role takes place - and names are given to bodies, not souls)." [Mu 26.12.83]


N.B. The parts in brackets are my own interpretations, based on my studies of Advanced Knowledge, as taught by the AIVV.

Roy

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 05 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 148) Mr Dixit falling DEEPER and DEEPER into his OWN TRAP:-
sita wrote:For Brahma it is said that it is an old shoe, old shoe is left and new one is taken. There are many hints in the Murli about the part that will go on after Brahma Baba.
1)Every body in Kaliyug is old shoe. And, since B baba was the first man, he is the oldest one. That is also a point there.

2)Of course, it is clearly said- after B Baba, part will continue. Baba has clearly said- Brahma's part would continue in aakar, and through Sakar, there is Dadi Gulzar. Any problem? (except jealousy of PBKs)??? ;-)
So for us remembering in a corporeal body, in Brahma is valid now.
3)BABA SAYS- BECOME TRIKAALADARSHI- ALL THE THREE ASPECTS OF TIME. SO, IF WE SEE FULL VALIDITY OF SEVAKRAM or PBKs FROM BEGINNING TO END -

Father of PBKs was Sevakram till 1942.
Form 1942 till 1947- No Father at all! Orphans? - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50585&hilit=orphans#p50585
Then from 1947 till 1969, PBKs believe the Yagya which was created by Sevakram (in their view) had just a TITLE HOLDER Father! [IN PBK VIEW].
From 1969 Jan till 1969 Sept/Nov (till Dixit came to BKWSU), again Yagya had no Father at all! (in PBK view).
And, it took nearly a decade for the PBKs to have Father Dixit (till AIVV was established).
And- their mothers were changed more frequently???
DOES -Virendra Dev Dixit or the PBKs TRY TO LOGICALLY COMPREHEND THE GIBBERISH WHICH THEY KEEP BLABBERING ALL THE TIME, OR NOT???

Moreover, by the above validity, PBKs may pat their back that they have some corporeal body to remember (that too after changing their fathers couple of times!) :laugh:
But, no Murli point says- you should remember through corporeal body. So, I do not see any greatness in this, except PBKs like to enjoy "a cock having three legs is something special"*. Because Murli point clearly says- corporeal support would be taken away. - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=160
For you it is valid for the past - about Brahma Baba. You have even said that it applies for now, remembering in the subtle Brahma, that the Supreme Soul resides there in the Subtle Region and in that moment I understand you speak against the Shrimat from the Murli, so you are from the community of Ravan.
4)IT is not that I am speaking of my own accord. Avyakt Murlis CLEARLY speak about Subtle Region, WHICH NEITHER YOUR BODILY GURU, -Virendra Dev Dixit, NOR THE PBKs CAN COMPREHEND, SINCE THEIR INTELLECTS HAVE BEEN INVERTED BY Ravan. You may say I belong to Ravan. BTW, mostly PBKs believe Brahma baba is Ravan- am I right? So, I have absolutely no problem whatever you may call me. If you like to call my both fathers (ShivBaba and B Baba, or at least one of them as Ravan), let me have those titles for even myself.
So, in PBK theory, anyone if interested in Subtle Region, he belongs to COMMUNITY OF Ravan!* Is there need of any more proof to PROPERLY COMPREHEND the level of the DESTRUCTION of INTELLECTS of PBKs? Let readers decide for themselves.
With regards the soul of Christ, if we compare the soul of Christ and the soul of Jesus, the soul of Jesus is a deity soul who comes in the Golden and Silver Ages, becomes number wise Narayan, has followed the Godly knowledge to some extent, etc. The soul of Christ comes only after the Copper Age and comes with different sanskars.
5)No Murli point says- soul of Jesus would be Narayan in Golden Age. It says- soul of Jesus would come in heaven. I believe may be only in Silver Age. I also believe soul of Jesus would be ordinary deity soul, may be some weak BKs or ex BKs or PBKs. Of course, neither I can prove myself, but I believe my points are more logical, as souls of Narayan would not be treated so in drama. Drama would look bad. [It is only the jealousy of Mr Dixit who made this propaganda, because he had to prove that the citizens in heaven could be higher than Kings- just to sustain the PBKs that their seat would be higher than B baba].
Every soul passes through stages. It is not that the soul of Jesus is weaker than the soul of Christ if we compare their initial stages.
6) I doubt here. Baba keeps position of the religious fathers very high.

SM 28- 09-72(1):- “Gaayan hai oonch te oonch ek ShivBaba ka aur doosraa dharmsthaapakon kaa”. –[number one] = The highest praise is of ShivBaba, NEXT IS OF religious fathers.

So, I believe there is a possibility that the level of religious fathers would be higher than at least those who just come at the end of Silver Age. [even if taken on full 5000 year period]

PBKs blindly believe one who comes later in drama is ALWAYS the weaker (of course, it is a general rule), but need not apply for special souls like Religious fathers. Of course, I am yet to understand fully.
Just as the soul of Christ enters Jesus and drags him in its own religion in the Copper Age, in the same way the soul of Jesus will pull the soul of Christ to the Godly knowledge in the Confluence Age.
7) Where is the proof of dragging? Jesus leaves his body after crucification. Not sure about in which religion does he go after that. Of course, it can also be true.
But, again there is no great thing of like dragging. Many people change their religion on their own wishes just by getting influenced from them. So, the concept of DRAG has neither spiritual nor logical value.

8) Now, are PBKs saying B Baba drags Mr Dixit and Mr Dixit drags Brahma Baba? Even then it is wrong. Because in 1936/7, there was no drag. Sevakram himself left Yagya (in PBK VIEW). In 1969/76 (or 1980s till Mr Dixit or his followers announced he is Prajapita), there was no drag at all. If B baba entered Mr Dixit to drag him, Mr Dixit would have become a Bk (not PBK, is it not?). But, Mr Dixit is a PBK. Or do PBKs believe soul of B baba had started to drag Mr Dixit from 1969 itself to BKWSU, and it was due to this drag Mr. Dixit came back to BKWSU? In that case, Mr Dixit would be EVEN WEAKER SOUL AND POSITION OF B BABA WOULD GO EVEN HIGHER. [AS PER PBK THEORY]

9)Finally, when will Mr Dixit drag soul of B baba into AIVV? In their own view, Mr Dixit cannot drag B baba at all. PBKs believe, even after B baba entering into body of Dixit for more than 40 years, etc, etc, B baba does not come in their 4.5 lakh category at all.

10) MORE Mr Dixit TRIES TO JUSTIFY HIS POSITION AS 'Ram', MORE OF HIS SPIRITUAL SUICIDE CONTINUES.

*- We can see wrong way of argument of PBKs here. As per PBKs, a good food (Subtle Region) are like alcohol, and vice versa.

Mr Dixit DELIBERATELY/DESPERATELY had to make false propaganda to keep his followers satisfied and at the top, because -
a)He had to give seat of first prince or Narayan of Golden Age to B Baba.
b)He had to say that the present body itself would be purified. Else, the way he stole the seat of Prajapita from B baba, even he will lose it.
c)So, he had to propagate subtle body, Subtle Region, etc., all are ghost or Ravan-like things.
d)So, as he had to give first Narayan of Golden Age to B Baba, he had to propagate that Kings are subordinates to citizens in heaven! - even this is not WEIRD AT ALL FOR PBKs???

e)This is why Mr Dixit (DELIBERATELY) gave ALL THE SEATS OF KINGS AND QUEENS OF Golden Age TO BKs! And, PBKs, in darkness, believe lime is butter, and vice-versa. :sad:

e)So, Mr Dixit went on defaming all the Narayans of Golden Age and PBKs believe it is the soul of Narayan who gets crucified.
But PBKs neither know intention of Mr Dixit, nor to the level they have fallen down, but just pat their back as if they are Advance Party.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 05 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 149) TOTAL False concept of SEED and LEAF/LEAVES and even more SPIRITUAL SUICIDES:-
Roy wrote: "... when there is Jagadamba (Gita Mata - not Mama) in Sakar, even Jagatpita(Ram - not Brahma Baba) would also be in Sakar... Both of these definitely can be called as creators (because through them, Father Shiv creates the first leaf of the world tree, in 1936/7 - i.e. Brahma Baba Krishna)." [Mu 30.05.82]
1)Total failure of PBKs can be seen here- viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2112

2)The leaf is not just one, there are TWO leaves, Radha and Krishna. It is given in the pictures as well as in point No. 14) here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... tey#p14927

Mr Dixit did not realize his fault even here. He says just one leaf.
3)More interestingly, even if he adds Radha (they believe it to be sister Vedanti during 1936), it becomes wrong, because she CANNOT BE PAIRED with DLR. As per PBKs sister Vedanti is paired with Mr Dixit. So, Mr Dixit is BOUND indefinitely in his own trap.

4) Many Murli points clearly say- the two leaves are jagadamba and japatpita (or Krishna and Radha). So, Jagatpita cannot be seed. And- Jagadamba and Jagatpita should become Krishna and Radha in next birth. But, as per PBK philosophy, Kamala Devi = their Jagadamba- does not become Radha either in the present or next birth.

In the juggling exercises, Mr Dixit while trying to fix many things, could not observe several things falling down, obviously due to spiritual blindness- and we can even see here- "andhey ke owlaad andhey" , even PBKs do not realize their mistakes, even after explaining them very clearly. In fact, these are like open secrets which are CLEARLY EVIDENT by themselves.

5)During 1936, PBKs believe adoption had happened from TWO MOUTHS (put in the link there). But, after 1969/1976, how many mouths are there?
Also it was sister Vedanti who gave knowledge to Mr Dixit in 1969. So, the greatest Father of PBKs got birth from his own child in his next birth! Any logic? And, PBKs may once again say- ALL THESE ARE PERFECTLY RIGHT, ABSOLUTELY NOT AT ALL WEIRD???
"Father Himself explains, that Prajapita Brahma cannot be called as creator. Of course, he is called as Prajapita(Father of humanity), but he is not the creator. People say, that Allah created us. The only incorporeal Father is called as creator (but He plays this role through Prajapita-Ram, the human seed of the world tree - not Brahma Baba Krishna, the first leaf/shoot of this world tree, who is created through the clarifications received through Prajapita-Ram, in 1936/7, in Calcutta)" [Mu 30.09.83]
6)No Murli point says so. - viewtopic.php?f=37&t=803&p=47088&hilit=Aahiste#p47088 or here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2180&p=33654&hilit=Aahiste#p33654
It is again false propaganda of Mr Dixit. But, another great spiritual suicide of Mr. Dixit is visible here. Is B Baba FIRST CREATION through Mr Dixit or should it be the first 4.5 lakh souls?

7)PBKs believe in 1936, B baba was created by Sevakram and Gitamata. But, they believe in 2018, B Baba would get birth as Krishna by Mr Dixit and Sister Vedanti! Again TOTALLY illogical propagations.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 05 Mar 2016

Baba has said in the Murli that I do not come in the Subtle Region dweller Brahma and that those who speak against Shrimat, understand them to be the community of Ravan. Dadi Gulzar is not Brahma.

If you are yet to know, then you cannot debate. Souls have celestial degrees, they have degree of being soul-conscious. Soul-consciousness is our study, soul-consciousness is our aim. Heaven is our aim. You defame a soul who makes the effort to go to heaven, to follow the code of conduct of heaven, to study Godly study, you put it lower to a soul who comes after the age of duality, you indeed have to learn.

Souls of religious fathers may have gained fame, but is this the fame given by people or by God. Is God praising them? No. He sais that they are not able to do anything, they are not even messengers. They have divided the people and have shown people a path that does not lead anywhere, they have misguided humanity and led it into the ditch. Who is Ravan? These gurus! Are the religious fathers not gurus? When does Ravan come? After Copper Age. These many religions are the many heads of Ravan. By putting the religious fathers higher than the souls of the deity religion you defame the deity religion, you defame your own clan. The deity religion is established by the Supreme Father. You defame His creation.

In fact it Is not the lack of knowledge that makes you speak like this, but your desire to only oppose, argue, twist and take in a negative way, whatever any PBK may say, which is perfectly illustrated by the following:
I believe my points are more logical
You just take it like a competition and a war. Why? I am yet to know!

LESSONS:
IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GOVERNING PRINCIPLE OF THIS EWD -

1. "TWO 'CATS' HAVE TO ESSENTIALLY FIGHT, TO ENABLE REAL SHRI Krishna TO HAVE THE REAL BUTTER"!
THIS APPLIES TO THE OUTER WORLD OF THE TWO SUPER-POWERS, THE 'SHOOTING' OF WHICH HAS TO ESSENTIALLY TAKE PLACE, IN THE Confluence Age, WITHIN THE Yagya, BETWEEN THE TWO CURRENT 'SPIRITUAL-POWERS', PBKIVV/BKWSU & AIVV!

2. "Mahabhari, MahaBharat ladayi Mahakalyankari hai"
"THE GREAT MAHABHARAT WAR IS SUPREMELY BENEVOLENT"


SAT

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by Roy » 05 Mar 2016

mbbhat wrote:# Flaw No. 149) TOTAL False concept of SEED AND LEAF/LEAVES and even more SPIRITUAL SUICIDES:-
2)The leaf is not just one, there are TWO leaves, Radha and Krishna. It is given in the pictures as well as point No. 14) here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... tey#p14927
"Great great grandfather is said to (Prajapita)Brahma(aka Ram). Incorporeal Father made (Prajapita)Brahma(aka Ram) as instrument for the creation of corporeal world. As he is creator(seed) of human creation, the memory of human creation is shown as tree. The seed would be incognito (in the Brahmin family, but Brahma Baba Krishna is famous in the Brahmin family). The first two leaves come out (Brahma-Mama) through which the stem/trunk gets formed. They (true Jagadamba and Jagapita) only become instrument for the foundation, in the form of Mother- Father, Adi Dev-Adi Devi. Through him (Prajapita-Ram), the Brahmin stem emerges... and from the Brahmin stem, more branches come out. Hence Great great grandfather is said to (Prajapita)Brahma(aka Ram). Incarnation of (Prajapita)Brahma(aka Ram), means end of bad days, and beginning of great days, ending of the night and beginning of the Brahma Muhoorath (Amrit Vela). Actually it is 'Brahma Muhoorath'. But while saying, it comes like 'BRAHM MUHOORATH'... Hence Brahma is shown with old body. Incorporeal Grand Father (Shiv) gives so much property to grand children (through Prajapita-Ram) such that they continue to enjoy it for 21 births." [Av 25.12.85]
mbbhat wrote:7)PBKs believe in 1936, B baba was created by Sevakram and Gitamata. But, they believe in 2018, B Baba would get birth as Krishna by Mr Dixit and Sister Vedanti! Again illogical things.
Not 2018, that is Trimurti Shivjayanti... but after final nuclear destruction, in 2036/7...

“The Father(i.e. Ram ShivBaba) gave (spiritual) birth (at the beginning of the Yagya, in 1936/7) to Krishna(Brahma Baba) through the Mother Gita(i.e. Sita aka Vedanti). Then they (the Brahmins of the Confluence Age), have made Krishna(Pitashri-Brahma Baba), the Husband of the Gita (by placing the name of Pitashri-Brahma Baba-Krishna, before ShivBaba, in the Sakar Murlis). In fact, Shiva(Father of all souls) is the Husband of the Gita(Sita). He gave (spiritual) birth to Krishna(Brahma Baba aka Dada Lekhraj) through Gita(Sita).” [Mu 14.12.93]

"Father(Shiv) says that I am the God of Gita. It was (Ram)ShivBaba (i.e. Shiv+ Prajapita-Ram - at the very beginning of the Confluence Age, in 1936/7) who created Mother Gita(Sita). Krishna(Dada Lekhraj Brahma Baba) took (spiritual) birth (through Mother Gita-Sita). Along with him, Radha(Mama - Ram-Sita's second child in the Golden Age) and others come along." [Mu 13.12.88]

N.B. The parts in brackets are my own interpretations, based on my studies of Advanced Knowledge, as taught by the AIVV.

Roy

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 06 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 150)LLU (Low Level of Understanding) of PBKs once again:-
sita wrote:If you are yet to know, then you cannot debate.
1)A small personal comment indeed, is it not? It also shows LLU of PBKs. Some people honestly admit what they do not know, or cannot certify, when there is not enough evidence for it. (unlike PBKs who like to argue like - "my cock has three legs"].
I ONCE AGAIN admit that what I know is according to MY LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING. ARE YOU GOING TO SAY or IMPLY YOU KNOW EVERYTHING AND ARE ALREADY THE MASTER OF KNOWLEDGE?

2)But, that (if one says/admits he does not know fully) does not mean he cannot debate or recognize faults. When some people consider 'lime to be butter' and vice versa, to point out such mistakes, there is no need to know the whole philosophy. This was the point. It is like open secret. Also- even if someone does not know about something, there is still possibility that he can estimate the level of accuracy of others' statements at least to some extent, in some cases (if not all), is it not?

3)If you believe people who debate SHOULD KNOW the topic FULLY, then there would be NO DEBATE AT ALL. If both of them know about the TOPIC, there cannot be any difference of opinions or contradictions between them, is it not?
----------

# Flaw No. 151) Who is defaming God and the Chariot?
By putting the religious fathers higher than the souls of the deity religion you defame the deity religion, you defame your own clan. The deity religion is established by the Supreme Father. You defame His creation.
4)No.
--Baba himself has said- those who reach very high, fall down every low.
--A Murli point also says- "Baap jo swarg rachte hain, vah bhee aadhaa kalp ke baad narak bantaa hai. = Even the heaven what God establishes would become hell after half a Kalpa.
--Baba also says- if you want to see most intelligent, see here. If you want to see most foolish(mahaamoorkh), see here.
---Baba also says- aashcharvanti, kathanti, bhaaganti, and even has clearly said that his own children who had been in gyaan for 5, 10 yrs etc, who USED TO (were INSTRUMENTS) teach drill to Mama, Baba - left gyaan and entered into stomach of python.
--Baba has also said for children, the punishment is 100 times. Baba has also said- even murderers will not get punishment as like to some children here. - viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1217&p=49614&hilit ... ers#p49614 Baba has also said- tribunal will be sitting for the children who commit sins here.
Now, in your own views, it is as good as God is defaming his own creation,, right?

5)So, try to understand the logic here. Just do not jump to some conclusion, just by what Mr Dixit says. If so, then forget Murlis and just believe what he says. Else, if you give value to Murli points to great extent, then better CHURN on the Murli points by YOUR OWN intellect. [APNI GHOT TOH NASHAA CHADHEY].

6)A Murli point also says- Christ ko achchaa part milaa huvaa hai = Christ has got good role in drama. This is why I believe there is possibility that some souls who come to heaven just by listening to a little knowledge, their role may be poorer than souls like Christ.
Souls of religious fathers may have gained fame, but is this the fame given by people or by God. Is God praising them? No. He said that they are not able to do anything, they are not even messengers. They have divided the people and have shown people a path that does not lead anywhere, they have misguided humanity and led it into the ditch. Who is Ravan? These gurus! Are the religious fathers not gurus? When does Ravan come? After Copper Age. These many religions are the many heads of Ravan.
More interestingly, what Mr Dixit has done? He himself had become the first instrument to divide children in God's Yagya, is it not? So, in your own view, Mr Dixit has already played role of dividing the children, and the other SPLINTER GROUP SOUL BROTHERS ARE STEPPING ON THE SAME PATH OF MR DIXIT. - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50738&hilit=Nagaraj#p50738

7)Interestingly, even when Baba praises about subtle Brahma and Subtle Region, PBKs like to call B baba as GHOST. Even Subtle Region or Paramdham as nothing. Also, PBKs believe the same GHOST rides and controls their Chariot for more than 40 years, and the ghost would be in the body of Dixit even when God is also present in Dixit.
Ao, A GHOST COMBINED TOGETHER WITH GOD, that too for more than 40 years! Is there anything more defamation of either God or the Chariot of PBKs?
[Usually Baba says- jahaan bhoot hai, vahaan Bhagavaan ho naheen saktaa = Where there is ghost, there cannot be God].
But, PBKs say otherwise. GREAT SPIRITUAL SUICIDE OF PBKs BY DEFAMING B BABA AND GOD, are once again visible here.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 06 Mar 2016

With respect to rich people coming in knowledge in the Murli it is said that they hardly come. Baba is Lord of the poor. But it is said that they will also come. Everyone has right. It is just that they are busy in their own things and don't find time to devote to this knowledge.

With respect to Bharat lying on the bed on thorns on the picture of the Ladder, you have said that it refers to the country, to the land. But as it is said that there are stars in the sky, you are the living stars, there is a living moon, living rivers, living ocean, is it not possible that there is also living Bharat. Even more when it is said that Bharat mata, the incarnation of ShivShakti will be victorious at the end. A non-living mother India is not incarnation of ShivShakti. It is about a living being and one cannot be a mother without a Father. So definitely Bharat refers to a living soul.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 06 Mar 2016

# Flaw No. 152) PBKs now correcting their errors, but in FUTILITY:-
Roy wrote:“The Father(i.e. Ram ShivBaba) gave (spiritual) birth (at the beginning of the Yagya, in 1936/7) to Krishna(Brahma Baba) through the Mother Gita(i.e. Sita aka Vedanti). Then they (the Brahmins of the Confluence Age), have made Krishna(Pitashri-Brahma Baba), the Husband of the Gita (by placing the name of Pitashri-Brahma Baba-Krishna, before ShivBaba, in the Sakar Murlis). In fact, Shiva(Father of all souls) is the Husband of the Gita(Sita). He gave (spiritual) birth to Krishna(Brahma Baba aka Dada Lekhraj) through Gita(Sita).” [Mu 14.12.93]

"Father(Shiv) says that I am the God of Gita. It was (Ram)ShivBaba (i.e. Shiv+ Prajapita-Ram - at the very beginning of the Confluence Age, in 1936/7) who created Mother Gita(Sita). Krishna(Dada Lekhraj Brahma Baba) took (spiritual) birth (through Mother Gita-Sita). Along with him, Radha (Mama - Ram-Sita's second child in the Golden Age) and others come along." [Mu 13.12.88]
1)Roy soul says- Gitamata to be sister Vedanti. But as per my knowledge, PBKs believe Gitamata to be soul of Kamala Devi. :-?
2)And - ridiculously, we can see Roy soul has said- there as "Golden Age" Where was Golden Age in 1936?
So, was the Murli point said about birth of Krishna in 1936, and others during Golden Age of 1936? :laugh:
Actually the Murli point refers to birth of Golden Age Krishna. That is why Baba says- "Radha and OTHERS ALSO COME with Krishna"
But, now it seems that PBKs are trying to take half for 1936, and half for Golden Age. Else, how can they explain - "Others come with Radha"- as during 1936. There were just four personalities- as per PBK VIEW.
We can see wrong arguments of PBKs about the same Murli points by PBKs here- error No. 29 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=50566&hilit=bachchi#p50566
===============

# Flaw No. 153) PBKs INADVERTENTLY believe spiritual birth of B Baba was before Mr. Dixit/Sevakram:-
arjun wrote: Sister Vedanti's name has not been taken in AIVV literature or CDs anywhere. She is only referred to as the head of Vijaymala or Confluence Age Lakshmi. Just as the Confluence Age Narayan developed faith about his part in 1976, similarly the Confluence Age Lakshmi developed faith in her part as Lakshmi in 1976. One developed faith on the basis of knowledge and the other on the basis of visions. - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50662&hilit=visions#p50662
3)According to Mr. Dixit/PBKs when DLR got vision in 1936, it was NOT SPIRITUAL BIRTH. But, if sister Vedanti got vision*, that would be a SPIRITUAL BIRTH! Another CLEAR DOUBLE STANDARD of PBKs. So, if they are certifying the latter as birth, they are INADVERTENTLY CERTIFYING even the former as birth.

But, logically, getting vision is also an actual TRIGGERING POINT, similar to like a soul entering into womb, - that is- like a PHYSICAL EVENT as well. So, when/since FIRST EVER VISION about the real HEAVEN, etc., had occurred to B Baba, his place would be ahead of all others. Also- as said earlier, there is no proof that B baba got clarifications from Sevakram.

* - It is again just only in PBK theory, neither any change has been observed in sister Vedanti during 1976, nor it is supported from Murli points.

4)Another error is- in the beginning of PBK concept of trimurtis, there had been just FOUR PERSONALITIES -Gitamata, Sevakram, Sister Vedanti and DLR. But, in the END, PBKs have FIVE PERSONALITIES- they include Mama (Om Radhe also) as a hand in their Vishnu. So, according to PBKs, the initial Trimurti is 4, and the final one would be 5, so they are inadvertently implying 4=5.
Also 4 or 5 are THREE murtis!
So, lots of errors and contradictions. But, all of these are perfectly as per drama. So, take it easy.

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