Flaws in PBK Philosophy

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 259) Few more examples- PBKs trying to defend lies and continue with false arguments:-

This point is from Avyakt Vani and speaks about the importance of the Sakar, after 69. So there is a Sakar father through whom only we can have connection, after 69.

1) The Avyakt Murli point just says about importance of Brahma Baba ALSO, along with ShivBaba. That is all. It does not say- there is need of some another corporeal father after 1969. It is just PBK false propaganda(FP). Of course, Brahma had been in corporeal before. No doubt. So, wherever/whenever the word 'Sakar Bap' or just 'Sakar' is used in the AVs, it UNDOUBTEDLY refers to the soul of DLR or Brahma Baba, who played the 'Sakar' part, until 1969. It CERTAINLY does NOT INDICATE that there is ANOTHER soul in 'Sakar' who plays the role of Prajapita Brahma, after 1969. ALL THESE ARE THE FP of the BLIND PBKs!

It is said that Bap and Dada are always combined. They can be always combined only in some corporeal body,

2) Where is it said so that God can be combined only in corporeal body? Again just FP.
Moreover- Baba has said- GOD DOES NOT RIDE Chariot WHOLE DAY. So, it is definitely impossible for God to be combined in a corporeal body ALL THE TIME. Moreover- PBKs believe the Chariot had been changing and/or missing at years 1936, 1942, 1947, 1969, 1976, .. PBKs speaking just LIES and MORE LIES.

because the Supreme Father does not come in the Subtle Region and Brahma Baba has not gone to Paramdham.

3) Yes, this is the only point what PBKs can argue*. It is valid if they are just questioning. But, the moment they claim God comes in some other body- it loses value as it goes against hundreds of other Murli points, and even their own philosophy- as already put here.

* - But, Baba has also said- he would be in complete Brahma, and Prajapita Brahma is here as well as in Subtle Region. Also- from other Murli points it becomes clear that- Baba had said this in point of lowkik people, as a list of Murli points were ALREADY GIVEN TO YOU - WHERE YOU REPLIED - UNDERSTANDING OF THOSE Murli POINTS IS OUT OF YOUR CAPACITY. So, you are simply arguing here, for the SAKE OF ARGUING, THAT's ALL!

It is not about the entrance in Gulzar Dadi either, that is only from time to time.

4)Who has claimed this? Only PBK false assumption.

If in BapDada there are two fathers included, which one is the corporeal Father, because Dada means elder Brother and not father.

5) Eldest brother is also Father**. Murli points clearly say- Brahma is brother, Father, and mother of the children, and also wife of ShivBaba - which the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, Virendra Dev Dixit, and the BLIND PBKs, DELIBERATELY, STUBBORNLY & ARROGANTLY DODGE or AVOID!!!
Even the above Murli point says- Bap-Dada means TWO fathers.

** - All corporeal/human beings are spiritually just/only brothers. None can be REAL/SPIRITUAL Father, except incorporeal ShivBaba. So, the corporeal Father can be only the highest/best/eldest brother.

In Bap itself two fathers are included, because the Supreme Father and the human father are recognized only when they combine.

6) No Murli point says- In 'Bap', there are two fathers included. Again PBK FP and just OPEN LIES.
Even if your words are taken, why has Baba said- BapDada means two fathers? - He should have said- two fathers and a brother.

Among themselves souls are Brothers, but there is one Brother who does the most effort, so he becomes eldest – Dada. Greatest effort is to become Narayan in the same life.

The eldest 'Brother' who makes the MOST EFFORT, is ALSO the 'Alokik' Mother of the TRUE Brahmins, and is ALSO the 'Alokik' Father of the TRUE Brahmins, and he makes the effort and achieves the HIGHEST Spiritual STATUS among ALL embodied human souls on this corporeal sphere, IN the Confluence Age ITSELF - HENCE HE QUALIFIES TO BECOME THE VERY FIRST Narayan, IN the Confluence Age ITSELF - and NOT IN G A. NO ONE STUDIES THIS KNOWLEDGE IN G A IN ORDER TO QUALIFY TO BECOME Narayan IN G A. THE VERY FIRST Narayan OF G A has achieved that status by virtue of his efforts and qualification in the Conf Age ITSELF, and there are no such efforts made by that soul in G A.

These aspects have been SEVERELY & MALICIOUSLY TWISTED by Ravan or Maya, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, Virendra Dev Dixit, to be instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap and Ravan Rajya in the latter part of the Conf Age.
The Unlimited Father speaks of Unlimited matters to the Unlimited Children!

BTW- So, dear Sita soul,
Do you mean to say here- Dada applies to Virendra Dev Dixit? If yes, then how do you explain the word BapDada?

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 260) Another CLEAR Avyakt Murli point that PROVES- that FIXED Chariot cannot be in corporeal form, after 1969:-

AM 01-11-81(With Gujarath and UP Parties- Pg 104 AND 105 of the old Hindi Book):- Sarv sthaanon kee apnee2 visheshathaa hai. UP bhee kum naheen toh Gujarath bhee kum naheen. Dilli(Delhi) ke baad UP niklaa. Jo aadi may sthaapnaa ke nimitt baney hain, unhon kaa bhee drama may vishesh part hai. Phir bhee aadivaalon ne DOUBLE LOTTERY toh le lee na. Sakar AUR NIRAAKAAR double lottery milee.
Yah bhee koyi kum part hai kyaa? Kalp2 ke charitr may sadaaa saath rahney kaa bhee yaadgaar hai. Yah bhee vishesh bhaagy hai. ABHEE BHEE BapDada Avyakt ROOP MAY SAB PART BAJAATHAY HAIN. LEKIN Sakar TOH Sakar HAI. SAKARVAALON KEE APNEE VISHESHATHAA, INHON KEE PHIR APNEE VISHESHATHAA HAI. YAH Avyakt SE, Sakar KAA SNEH KHEENCHNEYVAALEY HAIN. KAYI HAIN JO Sakar KE SAATH RAHANEVAALON SE BHEE ADHIK ANUBHAV ABHEE KARTHAY HAIN. TOH SAB EK DO SE AAGE HAIN.ACHCHAA. -

= All the places have their own specialties. Neither is UP(Uttar Pradesh State) any less, nor is Gujarath any less. After Delhi, UP emerged [meaning- Godly centre/service got established & Godly students emerged, FIRST in Delhi, and THEN in UP].

(Similarly) Those who became instruments for establishment in the beginning, they too have a special role(part) in drama. THEN TOO, THOSE WHO WERE FROM THE BEGINNING TOOK DOUBLE LOTTERY, IS IT NOT? THEY RECEIVED DOUBLE LOTTERY- CORPOREAL & INCORPOREAL!
Is THIS (Avyakt role of Brahma Baba through his SUBTLE body) any smaller/lesser role(part)?! There is ALSO the memorial of ALWAYS being together, for Cycle after Cycle, through the PERSONALITY/CHARACTER ('charitra') (of Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, when he is no longer in his 'Sakar' body, after 1969). THIS TOO (Avyakt Meeting with Avyakt BapDada, through the instrumental corporeal body of Dadi Gulzar) is a SPECIAL FORTUNE.

EVEN NOW, BapDada IS PLAYING ALL THE ROLES IN Avyakt/SUBTLE FORM.

Nevertheless, the CORPOREAL IS CORPOREAL (has its OWN SPECIALTY). THE SPECIALTY OF THE CHILDREN WHO HAD WITNESSED IN THE CORPOREAL, and also THESE (who came after 1969) ARE UNIQUE. THESE (those who have come after 1969) draw CORPOREAL LOVE FROM THE SUBTLE (FORM of BapDada - ShivBaba & Brahma Baba COMBINED, through the corporeal body of DG). SOME [of these- the children who have come to gyaan after 1969] have GREATER EXPERIENCE than (MANY of) THOSE WHO WITNESSED in the CORPOREAL. So, all are ahead of EACH OTHER. O.K.

BapDada clearly says-

1)Those who had been from the beginning, got double lottery- corporeal and incorporeal, (NOT for the children who came later). So, the Chariot CANNOT be in PHYSICAL FORM in the SAME/CORPOREAL WAY, as it had been in the beginning, (PRIOR 1969). So, THIS GOES TOTALLY AGAINST PBK theory, and DELUSIVE belief system.

2)Those who came after 1969, CAN DRAW CORPOREAL LOVE THROUGH THE SUBTLE ONE. So, PBK theory saying- there is ALWAYS need of corporeal, physically in front, ALL THE TIME, has NO VALUE.

3)Baba also says- some of the children who have come to gyaan AFTER 1969, HAVE GREATER EXPERIENCE than (MANY of) those who had been from the beginning (before 1969). So, the PBK claims TOTALLY FAIL here- automatically, without need of any other Murli point.
SO WHAT EXACTLY DO THE PBKs THINK THEY ARE STUDYING???????????

4)Baba also says- each one is ahead of the other. There is no restriction for any Child to experience to any level- IRRESPECTIVE OF whether they have SEEN THE CORPOREAL (with their physical eyes) OR NOT. So, PBK theory again fails here TOTALLY & COMPLETELY.

5) BapDada is also saying- BapDada is playing ALL THE ROLES in Avyakt form.
[So, it is not the SAME, as it had been in Sakar, till 1969].

There are several such Avyakt Murli points which speak the same thing- but PBKs like to 'TURN A BLIND EYE' to ALL of them, so that they may continue to propagate the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, to be instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap and Ravan Rajya, in the Confluence Age.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 261) A look at the Spiritual 'childhood' of PBKs! :-

Baba usually says- "bachpan ke dinn bhulaa na denaa = do not forget the days of (spiritual) childhood", which refers to the period when children had first developed faith in Baba.
--For BKs, it is simple and clear, as they had, and STILL have the same faith that Prajapita Brahma(DLR) and Jagadamba Saraswathi (Om Radhe) are their 'Alokik' Father & Mother, who play these roles in their respective corporeal bodies in the Conf Age, and ShivBaba is the 'Parlokik MaatPita', or INCORPOREAL Mother & Father.
In the beginning period of Yagya, concept of ShivBaba, as a point, was not clear. But, that does not dilute the spiritual childhood of BKs, as they had high intoxication that- we become deities; they also had intoxication that- 'I am God, you are God, and everyone is God', they also enjoyed a lot in trance, visions, etc. And, the 'corporeal', or 'Alokik' Father & Mother of BKs has never changed, right from the very beginning, until this day.

--But, for PBKs, the 'corporeal', or 'Alokik' Father & Mother initially had been DLR and Om Radhe (when they had been BKs). Then they got changed to Mr Dixit and Premkanta, and then Premkanta got changed into Kamala Devi (while Sr Vedanti remains in the 'SHADOWS' to this day).
So- parents of PBKs got changed, in their spiritual life. Does this happen anywhere? If so, what would the children be called? Illegitimate?
Also- which is the real spiritual childhood for PBKs? [After 1998, Kamala Devi left, and their Yagya has no corporeal mother, in practical, other than another scapegoat - Sr Yogini.]
---------------------

Flaw No. 262) Do PBKs understand REAL meaning of SRIMATH, AT ALL?

SM 24-3-78(1):- Brahma ki math bhi mash_hur hai. ShivBaba ki srimat math bhi mash_hur hai. TO BRAHMA VA ShivBaba KE SAATH UN_HON KI OULAADON KI MATH BHI MASH_HUR HONI CHAHIYE. Tumko ShivBaba aur Brahma donon ki math par chalna hai. Tab to shreshth banenge.

= Brahma's direction are famous. ShivBaba's directions are also famous. So, together with Brahma and ShivBaba, the directions of their children also should be famous. You have to follow directions of BOTH ShivBaba, as well as Brahma Baba. Then you will become great.

1)BapDada is/are karan-karaavanhar. So, will keep children in front. The Murli point clearly says/implies- even the children would be giving directions. But, PBKs believe just Mr. Dixit (or Shiv in body of Mr. Dixit) has right to give directions. Directions from others- are just 'manmath'. They are clearly NOT ABLE to comprehend or appreciate that the directions of their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, fall into the category of 'directions from others', as per the Pure Shrimat of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God! On the contrary, by BLINDLY ACCEPTING their bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit, to be the 'mukrar-rath' of God, (who is, IN FACT, the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', 'Prajapita Brahma', 'Shankar', etc.), they BIND themselves into the ABJECT SLAVERY of accepting whatever their bodily guru propagates, DELUSIVELY considering him to be 'Prajapita Brahma', and DELUSIVELY ASSUMING God will be responsible for same! While God has CLEARLY declared that He would be responsible for the directions which emerge EXCLUSIVELY from the Lotus Mouth/Intellect of REAL Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, ALONE, and THIS WOULD NOT APPLY to ANY OTHER EMBODIED SOUL, AT ALL!!!

2)PBKs believe directions of Brahma are not right*. They believe Brahma Baba not only misuses body of Mr. Dixit, but also acts such that he creates eclipse on Kamala Devi, and has attachment to children, has not yet understood role of Father properly, etc, etc.

*- PBKs even believe Brahma Baba is number one false Guru. They even give title Ravan to Brahma Baba.

3)BTW- PBKs believe there are four to five Brahmas. Now, which all Brahmas' directions should be followed? Also- PBKs believe Mr Dixit does not give any directions. He would be in state of remembrance and it is only Shiv who gives directions. Or do PBKs believe even Mr. Dixit gives directions, by himself?

4)Where do Murli points tally with PBK philosophy? So, by inviting/creating many Brahmas, Mr Dixit committed spiritual suicide once again in his life, is it not?

[sita]

# Flaw No. 261) A look at the Spiritual 'childhood' of PBKs! :-
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&start=690#p51583

Our childhood is the satopradhan stage when we enter the path of knowledge. Although many Brahmins have not been there at the time of Brahma Baba, still they have got childhood memories. It is the Honeymoon Period and the period of zeal and enthusiasm of the beginning when we laugh. Then, as our stage degrades, we start crying. The song is about not letting the light of our zeal and enthusiasm on the path of knowledge be put down. Enthusiasm is the breath of Brahmin life.

Mother and Father took birth in 76 in the form of Lakshmi and Narayan. With respect to the soul of Brahma Baba, for him it is said that on one becoming pure all become pure, and on one becoming impure, all become impure. Although he may be instrumental for downfall, when he realizes the part of the Father, he will become instrumental for upliftment.

Flaw No. 262) Do PBKs understand REAL meaning of SRIMATH, AT ALL? viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&start=690#p51583

SM 24-3-78(1):- Brahma ki math bhi mash_hur hai. ShivBaba ki srimat math bhi mash_hur hai. TO BRAHMA VA ShivBaba KE SAATH UN_HON KI OULAADON KI MATH BHI MASH_HUR HONI CHAHIYE. Tumko ShivBaba aur Brahma donon ki math par chalna hai. Tab to shreshth banenge.

= Brahma's direction are famous. ShivBaba's directions are also famous. So, together with Brahma and ShivBaba, the directions of their children also should be famous. You have to follow directions of BOTH ShivBaba, as well as Brahma Baba. Then you will become great.

This is a good point, because it demonstrated the difference between the directions of Brahma and of ShivBaba. For the words that emerge though the mouth of Brahma, Baba has said that it is a monkey business to discern who speaks, Brahma or ShivBaba. ShivBaba has taken responsibility for whatever emerges through the mouth of Brahma and we have to consider it is always ShivBaba speaking. Whatever emerges through the mouth of Brahma is the Shrimat of ShivBaba, not of Brahma. We should not look at Brahma. If we look at Brahma we will fail. We should look at ShivBaba.

And then Brahma Baba enters Gulzar Dadi and narrates his versions. The Murli is directions of ShivBaba and Avyakt Vanis are the directions of Brahma.

The directions of the children are famous as the directions of the various religious leaders.

P.S. Dear brother mbbhat. You post your posts and they are nice, points are valid, tone is polite. Soon they become edited and spoilt. As long as you don't stand for your right to insist your posts are not edited you are taking responsibility for the editions.

[mbbhat]

Our childhood is the satopradhan stage when we enter the path of knowledge. Although many Brahmins have not been there at the time of Brahma Baba, still they have got childhood memories. It is the Honeymoon Period and the period of zeal and enthusiasm of the beginning when we laugh. Then, as our stage degrades, we start crying. The song is about not letting the light of our zeal and enthusiasm on the path of knowledge be put down. Enthusiasm is the breath of Brahmin life.

Not addressed properly. The question was- whether the spiritual childhood of PBKs is of their BK period/life or PBK period/life? Which knowledge gave enthusiasm to PBKs? BK knowledge or the 'so-called' advanced knowledge?
1)If it is BK period, they lose status, as they will have to think of their 'kourava' life, in retrospection (since PBKs consider that BKs are 'kouravas'). If it is PBK period, even then they lose value, as their PBK life is TOTALLY based on the VERY FOUNDATION of (TOTALLY DEPENDENT on) the BK knowledge. In any case- their childhood period is something like fake and ambiguous - in their own view (may be inadvertently, and WITHOUT being aware of same).

Mother and Father took birth in 76 in the form of Lakshmi and Narayan. With respect to the soul of Brahma Baba, for him it is said that on one becoming pure all become pure, and on one becoming impure, all become impure. Although he may be instrumental for downfall, when he realizes the part of the Father, he will become instrumental for upliftment.

2)See- you now openly declare that you give name L and N for Mr Dixit and sister Vedanti from 1976 itself, which you had denied earlier, in a double-standard manner. That is OK.
If it is merely 'Spiritual birth' (COMPLETE Re-Cognition or COMPLETE REAL-EYEsation) being referred to by PBKs, THEN they have to contend with the ABSOLUTE FACT that this would apply FIRST & PRIMARILY to the Spiritual soul-mates of Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama, FOLLOWED by other PAIRS of soul-mates, who are the PRINCIPAL Sovereigns of RamRajya; and this aspect has ALREADY been adequately highlighted several times on this forum, to which the PBKs choose to pay scant regard, very much to their VERY OWN detriment!
3)Now, here- PBKs again lose value. If B Baba is the MAIN or 'PIVOTING' instrument, i.e. if the 'ACTUAL OCCURRENCES' of ALL embodied souls (INCLUDING -Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs) becoming PURE & IMPURE, are SOLELY GOVERNED by the ACTUAL Spiritual Status of Brahma Baba, then obviously he would be the MAIN HERO of this EWD play, rather than Mr. Dixit, IS IT NOT? Here is a CLASSICAL EXAMPLE of how the PBKs would take SUFFICIENT SPIRITUAL ROPES (POINTS) from the Pure Knowledge of God, and TWIST them adequately, in such a manner, as to EVENTUALLY, EFFECTIVELY HANG THEMSELVES - ALL, PERFECTLY, AS PER DRAMA PLAN - NOTHING NEW!!!
4)Furthermore, PBKs openly say- Mr. Sevakram lost faith in 1942 and left Yagya. Even the Murli point says- those children had entered into stomach of python. So- they are trapped by their own claims- BECAUSE THEN THEIR ALLEGATIONS SAYING B BABA WAS INSTRUMENT FOR DOWNFALL HAS NO VALUE. BECAUSE MR. DIXIT ALSO SAYS- SEVAKRAM HIMSELF LOST FAITH AND THE ENTIRE Yagya HAD BEEN IN CONTROL OF THE TWO PBK SISTERS.

This is a good point, because it demonstrated the difference between the directions of Brahma and of ShivBaba. For the words that emerge though the mouth of Brahma, Baba has said that it is a monkey business to discern who speaks, Brahma or ShivBaba.

5)You may please ANALYSE who are doing this monkey business. BKs do not differentiate- which are directions of Brahma, and which are of ShivBaba. [This discussion has come up only with discussion with PBKs].
It is PBKs who have started it. It is PBKs who say- B Baba had made mistake by accepting himself as Chariot.- even though no Murli point says so. In addition, PBKs say- Brahma Baba creates eclipse on Kamala Devi, etc, etc.
Even though Murli point clearly says- B Baba is next to Shiv, it is PBKs who disagree with it. So, who are the REAL MONKEYS in the Yagya, who are doing this 'monkey business', by MISINTERPRETING, MISREPRESENTING & MISAPPROPRIATING the Pure Knowledge of God???

IF, as you yourself ACCEPT that, "Whatever emerges through the mouth of Brahma is the Shrimat of ShivBaba, not of Brahma. We should not look at Brahma. If we look at Brahma we will fail. We should look at ShivBaba", then what is the significance of stating, or STRESSING/HIGHLIGHTING, that ONLY the soul of Brahma Baba delivers the AVs through the body of Dadi Gulzar - SINCE IT IS STILL the 'Shrimat of ShivBaba'???

P.S.: Dear Brother 'sita',
EVERY SOUL HAS TO ESSENTIALLY TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS, AS PER THE INVIOLABLE Law of Karma, IN THIS EWD (WHETHER THEY LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE/ACCEPT IT OR NOT)!!!
Hence, there is NO NEED for ANYONE to be unduly CONCERNED or PERTURBED about the RESPONSIBILITY of ANOTHER. EACH ONE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR VERY OWN RESPONSIBILITIES, FOR THE ULTIMATE BENEFIT OF EACH ONE's VERY OWN SELF! However, thank you for your concern, and be comforted in the thought that I am taking FULL responsibility for my actions!

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 263) PBKs inadvertently imply- God takes responsibility to words of 'ghost' and 'Ravan' and directs/certifies them to be considered as Srimath:-

ShivBaba has taken responsibility for whatever emerges through the mouth of Brahma and we have to consider it is always ShivBaba speaking. Whatever emerges through the mouth of Brahma is the Shrimat of ShivBaba, not of Brahma. We should not look at Brahma. If we look at Brahma we will fail. We should look at ShivBaba.

Have PBKs ever thought why ShivBaba had taken responsibility for Brahma's words? The reply is an open secret. Because he is very next to God and the children HAVE TO FOLLOW BRAHMA, Brahma is the real model .
But, in PBK view- it is not so. PBKs believe there is lot of gap between God and B Baba.
When PBKs DECLARE that it is ONLY the soul of Brahma Baba, who delivers the AVs through the corporeal body of Dadi Gulzar, then, as per above DECLARATION by the PBKs, "We should not look at Brahma. If we look at Brahma WE WILL FAIL. We should look at ShivBaba", they should NOT BE LOOKING at Brahma in the body of Dadi Gulzar, but at ShivBaba, is it not? Thus they CLEARLY DECLARE THEMSELVES that, by looking ONLY at Brahma Baba in the body of Dadi Gulzar, and NOT at ShivBaba, THEY FAIL*!!!

And, Mr. Dixit conveniently HIJACKED those VERY SAME words of Murli, and played role of HK Hood, and claims/implies in his teachings- that- his words should be considered as Srimath. In this manner, Ravan or Maya manages to TREACHEROUSLY TRICK and COMPLETELY TRAP the poor unsuspecting PBKs in the VICIOUS GRIP of Ravan Rajya, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit!

Also, by implying that Brahma Baba is a 'ghost', or 'Ravan', and number one 'false Guru', PBKs inadvertently imply- God takes responsibility for words of 'Ravan', 'ghost' and 'false Guru'. In this way Mr. Dixit defamed God to such an extent that no OTHER human being or religion has done!
But, no one can cheat God. Finally it will result in his/their own spiritual suicide, whether they like to know it or not, whether they like to accept it or not, whether they like to REAL-EYEs it or not!!!

* - This is another CLEAR example where PBKs use the Murli points only to point at others, and not for them. They use any Murli point as only half, that too one sided, and biased manner. But, again it results in their own suicide.


# Flaw No. 264) PBKs inadvertently imply- their mother can create children without Father! :-

PBKs claim "they have both Father and Mother- Mr Dixit and B baba and hence they are REAL children, but BKs have just mother (B Baba) so, they are not REAL children". But, by saying so, PBKs inadvertently imply their own Mother can create children with Father(PBKs), but without Father(BKs)! (In PBK view). Any logic?
Further as already said their Father is a failed one and the mother is number one false Guru, a ghost or Ravan! Then how the children would be?!

So- in this way- PBKs commit innumerable spiritual suicides.

[sita]

The question was- whether the spiritual childhood of PBKs is of their BK period/life or PBK period/life? Which knowledge gave enthusiasm to PBKs? BK knowledge or the 'so-called' advanced knowledge?

Both.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 265) Further comments on childhood:-

Both.

How would such a 'distorted & disintegrated' childhood be? PBKs think that their Father left the Yagya, in his previous birth, and entered into the stomach of the python. Thereafter, he was TOTALLY ABSENT from the Yagya for a PROLONGED PERIOD of TIME*, and is STILL considered to be the 'mukrar-rath' of God, in spite of such PROLONGED ABSENCE! Then they believe their mother, DLR, played role of HK hood by acting as title holder, and as 'Ravan', by considering/accepting himself to be the Chariot of God.

And, they believe that their own Father's first decision of appointing their yagyamatha was Premkanta. But, that failed, and then the seat was given to Kamala Devi. And that TOO FAILED, since she left AIVV in 1998.

Even Mr. Dixit failed to understand simplest Murli points and typing errors and misinterpreted them. Many senior PBKs have left their bodies, and are STILL doing so, which goes COMPLETELY against their aim and object, and their CORE BELIEFS.

* - And, PBKs believe their Father Mr Dixit was playing role of number one lustful thorn after the BK spiritual childhood (that is- in his present body till 1969). Further, their mother Kamala Devi got caught into Maya- after the two childhood periods- both BK and PBK.

So, how would the spiritual childhood intoxication of SUCH PBKs be, in the light or awareness of above FACTS?
UNLESS THEY CHOOSE to BRUSH ALL of THEM UNDER the 'CARPET', and simply say, "CARRY ON CLEO"!!!

[sita]

When we enter the Bk knowledge we get intoxication about ourselves as souls, new world coming etc. The intoxication we get in the PBK is with the practical Father and the aim to transform in this life. Even if someone leaves the body still he has the determination so his effort continues in the next birth.

[mbbhat]

When we enter the BK knowledge we get intoxication about ourselves as souls, new world coming etc. The intoxication we get in the PBK is with the practical Father and the aim to transform in this life. Even if someone leaves the body still he has the determination so his effort continues in the next birth.

So, it is lower level faith/determination. Because the aim of PBKs is to transform in the present body ITSELF, is it not?* Now, after realizing that, that is NOT EXACTLY what has been taking place in PRACTICAL, you SUDDENLY choose to qualify your earlier stance!

Furthermore, faith of the so-called Mr Sevakram, and the other two sisters had been lost, in their previous births. So, how can there be determination for so-called Sevakram, while leaving Yagya in 1942, or Kamala Devi leaving AIVV in 1998? And- PBKs claim that Mr. Dixit in his present birth played role of number one lustful thorn. So he played role of thorn after the first spiritual childhood! I do not find words to explain it. See- how Mr. Dixit committed suicide while trying to compete with B Baba.

Many people in this world have determination in their activities or work. Even a suicide bomber has determination that he will attain his aims. Even in Bhakti, people think they will get moksha, etc, etc. So, it is not a question of determination here. It is the question of how one's spiritual life had been, is it not?

* - Moreover, AIVV had given the date of revelation as 1998, then 2008, which failed and then 2016 as well. So, how those who were leaving bodies close to these dates have determination? Are you aware of what you are saying/implying? Or, have you thrown all discretion to the winds???

[mbbhat]

# Flaw no. 266) Regarding memorials- Gita, Vedas and scriptures:-

1)Mostly- PBKs say something like this (correct me if I am wrong).
--Lowkik Gita is the memorial of the words that have come through mouth of Mr. Dixit, (the so called clarifications or the advanced knowledge), and
--Vedas are memorial of the words that have come through mouth of DLR (Sakar Murlis).
--Bhaagavath (and perhaps other scriptures too) are the result/memorial of BK literature.

2)But, there are many other aspects.
a)Sakar Murlis,
b)Avyakt Murlis/Vanis.
c)Clarifications of Sakar Murlis.
d)Clarifications of Avyakt Murlis.

So, there should be at four main memorials in Bhaktimarg. What are they?

(Sakar) Murlis are directions of ShivBaba and Avyakt Vanis are directions of Brahma

3)Now, further questions are-

PBKs call Sakar Murlis as false Gita(FG). I believe even to AVs, they will have to give name Gita only, as they believe they are words of Krishna/Brahma. But, according to PBKs, those directions are not accurate, hence need clarifications. So, are there two false Gitas? - in PBK view?

Similarly, two true Gitas (TGs) = two clarifications too?

4) As per above claims of PBKs- It is as good as - Brahma Baba first studies FG (Sakar Murlis), then TG (Mr Dixit's clarifications), then gives his own directions (Avyakt Vanis- FG). Then Mr. Dixit once again gives clarifications on that FG(=AVs). Is not this funny?

# Flaw No. 267) Mr. Dixit inadvertently puts his name in False Gita:-

5) If- PBKs believe the memorial of Sakar Murlis are Vedas, and clarifications through Mr. Dixit is Gita, then it is as good as saying memorial of FG (of Conf Age= Sakar Murlis) is/are Vedas in Bhaktimarg, and memorial of TG (of Conf Age= the clarifications) are lowkik Gita in Bhaktimarg.
Then- how can, in the yaadgaar of TG (clarifications of Mr. Dixit), name of Krishna be inserted?
The point is- PBKs have already placed soul of Krishna for the memorial Vedas. Then how come name Krishna can come in lowkik Gita memorial?

The allegation of PBKs is- Gita(Sakar Murlis) had been made false by inserting name Krishna/Brahma/pitashree in Sakar Murlis and they put the allegations on BKWSU.
But, no one has inserted name Krishna in the so called advanced knowledge clarifications. So, if lowkik Gita are memorial of the words of Mr Dixit, how can BKWSU be responsible for making it false?

Murlis extensively say- Gita had been made false due to insertion of name Krishna in it. To address that issue, Mr. Dixit had to point/create some fault in BKWSU by hook or crook and hence said-- "BKWSU has inserted name Krishna in Sakar Murlis" (but the fact is BKs have put the name Brahma in it - which is obviously fully right).
--But, Mr. Dixit cannot keep quiet. To prove himself superior to DLR, he placed himself (his memorial) in lowkik Gita and that of DLR in Vedas. But, Mr. Dixit did not notice- this too would be a spiritual suicide.
--And- poor PBKs are caught in endless traps like this. Wish at least some of them wake up before it is too late.

[sita]

# Flaw No. 265) Further comments on childhood:-

There is no difference in the intoxication one has, on entering the knowledge. No one enters the knowledge with the determination to leave the body. But if due to some accounts he leaves the body, it does not matter. His effort continues.

# Flaw no. 266) Regarding memorials- Gita, Vedas and scriptures:-

Murli is true Gita as opposed to the Gita of the Bhakti marg, but it is not the nectar of knowledge of the Gita. It is milk of knowledge, and the clarification is like butter that comes after churning.

Through the soul of Krishna the Ganga of knowledge came, when this Ganga gets merged in the locks of Shankar and it flows from there, this is when it causes benefit to humankind.

I think the difference between Brahma's mat and Shrimat of ShivBaba can also be represented by the difference between the basic and the advance knowledge.

# Flaw No. 267) Mr. Dixit inadvertently puts his name in False Gita:-

If some PBK considers that the one who is giving the knowledge is the confluence aged Krishna, instead of the Supreme Father Shiv, he puts Krishna's name in the Gita.

I don't find it to be strange if the Avyakt Vani is clarified, if it can be clarified according to the advanced knowledge. Even the lokik Gita can be clarified according to the advanced knowledge. And in the clarifications there are many points we would have missed for eg. the entrance in Bengal. It is the same problem with the Murlis that without clarifications we think Baba is speaking controversially, in a confused way and without connection and meaning. In the same way even the lokik Gita makes perfect sense when clarified. Even when we understand something on our own, still a new door of the unlimited meaning is opened.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 268) More examples of PBKs falling into their own trap:-

There is no difference in the intoxication one has on entering The Knowledge. no one enters The Knowledge with the determination to leave the body. But if due to some accounts he leaves the body, 1)it does not matter. His effort continues.

Very loose argument, no logical points. There is obviously a difference. Suppose say- a person feels that he is going to leave his body in year say near to 2007 (who had believed in the date 2008). Now obviously, he will lose his determination, because in the next birth, it will take at least few years for the child to grow and return to gyaan.

2)BTW- the most funny thing is- PBKs believe account of Mr Dixit itself is not cleared/settled. They believe his account is going to be cleared only in the end. So, why should others leave body?

Murli is true Gita as opposed to the Gita of the Bhakti marg, but it is not the nectar of knowledge of the Gita. It is milk of knowledge, and the clarification is like butter that comes after churning.

3)Nectar/Butter would be very much less in quantity with high amount of quality. It is state of smruti-swaroop. Baba has clearly said- "I do not do vsm(vichar sagar manthan= churning). Children should do".
So- the claim of PBKs where they say- the clarifications are churning and they are given by Shiv himself loses all the values.

Through the soul of Krishna the Ganga of knowledge came, when this Ganga gets merged in the locks of Shankar and it flows from there, this is when it causes benefit to humankind.

Where is is said that ganga came through Krishna? BTW- PBK theory says- ganga first came through Sevakram- from 1937 till 1942, then the ganga came through the two PBk sisters till 1947, and then only through DLR. Then from 1976 through Mr. Dixit. Nothing tallies even to minutest extent.

We can see here- PBKs do not hesitate to speak in double standard manner like what is said in error No. 05. - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=48800&hilit=ordinary#p48800

Now, they say here, first knowledge came from B baba, then clarification through Dixit. So, are you saying ganga first came through Krishna- and not through the PBK souls? :laugh:

I think the difference between Brahma's mat and Shrimat of ShivBaba can also be represented by the difference between the basic and the Advanced Knowledge.

Again double standard and spiritual suicide. On one hand, you say- Sakar Murli is TG, and then again contradict yourself by saying basic knowledge (Sakar Murlis) as FG.

BTW- If what BKs have understood is basic knowledge, what was the knowledge from 1937 till 1942 and from 1942 till 1947? Can they be called as Gita? If yes, TG or FG?

If some PBK considers that the one who is giving The Knowledge is the confluence aged Krishna, instead of the Supreme Father Shiv, he puts Krishna's name in the Gita.

So, do you mean to say- the real cause are PBKs and not BKWSU? Whatever you may say- it will still be more and more ambiguous. Because Mr Dixit himself says- the name Krishna in lowkik Gita is of B Baba, not of Mr. Dixit.

I don't find it to be strange if the Avyakt Vani is clarified, if it can be clarified according to the advanced knowledge.

It becomes childish, as already put. It is like many U turns. Moreover, if Mr Dixit can give clarifications on even lowkik scriptures- why he does not give clarifications on classes of Dadi, Didis, etc? You have said- the directions of Dadis, Didis are like religious fathers. If Mr. Dixit is willing to give clarifications on them, why not on these?

[sita]

Very loose argument, no logical points. There is obviously a difference. Suppose say- a person feels that he is going to leave his body in year say near to 2007 (who had believed in the date 2008). Now obviously, he will lose his determination, because in the next birth, it will take at least few years for the child to grow and return to gyaan.

So, what is the option for the elder person who enters the knowledge? He does not seem to have any other option. He cannot help it but be determined and continue his effort in his next life. The wise one does not get disturbed by the change of the leaving of the body. It is said even in the Gita. It should not make any difference. I may leave the body, but I will certainly fulfill the task. According to the determination will be the success. One may be a young person, still if his thoughts are not determined his success will be less. It is not a matter of the body, but of the mind, of the soul.

Nectar/Butter would be very much less in quantity with high amount of quality.

This butter is the soul Krishna steals from Brahmin world.

Where is is said that ganga came through Krishna? BTW- PBK theory says- ganga first came through Sevakram- from 1937 till 1942, then the ganga came through the two PBK Sisters till 1947, and then only through Lekhraj Kirpalani. Then from 1976 through Mr. Dixit. Nothing tallies even to minutest extent.

You are right. Bhagirath did tapasya and Ganga flowed. Probably it is about the beginning of the Yagya.

So, do you mean to say- the real cause are PBKs and not BKWSU?

Certainly. Now BKs are much more influential, so they are doing this propaganda in the outside world that the soul of Krishna - Dada Lekraj, through him the Gita was given. Baba has said in the Murli that some are followers of Ram, some of Krishna, no one asks ShivBaba. Prajapita, Krishna, Narayan, Shankar are all one and the same personality.

It becomes childish as already put. It is like many U turns. Moreover, if Mr Dixit can give clarifications on even lowkik scriptures- why he does not give clarifications on classes of Dadi, Didis, etc? You have said- the directions of Dadis, Didis are like religious fathers. If Mr. Dixit is willing to give clarifications on them, why not on these?

Baba does give clarification of all the scriptures. He narrates the essence of all the scriptures. The knowledge of all the scriptures can be tallied with the Godly knowledge. But Baba comes to establish one true religion and the religious scripture of that religion is the Gita. He comes to establish 3 religions, the Brahmin, Krshtriya and deity, the other religions will get merged, they will be destroyed. Brahma Baba is the moon of knowledge. The sun dynasty and moon dynasty both are established by ShivBaba, so he will naturally give preference to that.

[mbbhat]

# Flaw No. 269) PBKs fail to defend their claims and take U turns:-

So, what is the option for the elder person who enters The Knowledge? He does not seem to have any other option. He cannot help it but be determined and continue his effort in his next life.

1)Arey- have you forgotten what PBKs boast/claim? Their main goal is to transform in the same present body, whatever may be the age of the body. So, that goal is kept aside now?

The wise one does not get disturbed by the change of the leaving of the body. It is said even in the Gita. It should not make any difference. I may leave the body, but I will certainly fulfill the task.

2)This is what the point is about. Baba has also said- even if Brahma Baba has left Sakar body, he will continue through akar.

3)But, PBKs do not agree with it- even if Murli point openly/clearly says so. They would like to argue - my cock has three legs, but when they fail, they take excuses and ask others- what is the option then? :laugh:

According to the determination will be the success. One may be a young person, still if his thoughts are not determined his success will be less. It is not a matter of the body, but of the mind, of the soul.

If it is matter of not body, then why do you say about- elderly person? Again U turn or taking only half.
And why do PBKs harp on the issue of Brahma Baba having left his corporeal body - if it is a matter of the mind and the soul, how does that matter?

4)Mr. Dixit while propagating his so called advanced knowledge said- "the present body itself will be transformed". Because at that time he wanted just something different and greater than what BKs say.
So, he just declared so- without anticipating what would happen in future. But, as time passed, his own dates failed. And, now is caught in his own trap.

You are right. Bhagirath did tapasya and Ganga flowed. Probably it is about the beginning of the Yagya.

5)See, you are not able to explain it even to a bit. First of all, PBKs believe the vision first happened to B Baba (neither to Dixit, nor to the PBK sisters). Then PBKs believe God first entered into previous birth of Kamala Devi, NOT IN SEVAKRAM. So, Bhagirath should be either of B Baba or kamala Devi. How can that be Dixit/Sevakram?

Funny thing is- On one hand, PBKs say- there is need of three personalities of PBKs plus DLR for God to work. But, they point just Bhagirath, and none. Where is it tallying, dear soul?

# Flaw No. 270) Regarding drushti and srimath:-

- from here- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2552&p=51608#p51608

If Brothers and Sisters speak according to Shrimat we could listen, if not we should not listen.

6)In that topic- some points regarding drushti are discussed. Now- the question here is-
--So, should the listener first check whether the person who speaks follows srimath or not?
--How to check it?
--A new comer cannot check this, as he is not aware of it. Then should he listen to PBKs?

If a PBK narrates The Knowledge, even if he narrates the same knowledge accurately without mixing his own mind it is still Ravan's knowledge, because the one who narrates is impure. Knowledge comes from only one, ignorance comes from everyone else.

7)Well said. It is really good to have such a high aim - that is- to listen and think of just One God, and none other.
But, we can see countless errors and blunders which have gone unnoticed in AIVV? Who was the cause for it? Is it Mr Dixit or ever-pure Shiv who spoke/wrote so, through the hands of Mr Dixit (in PBK literature)? Or did some PBK write so in PBK literature without taking permission from the Chariot?