Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 14 Feb 2017

# Flaw No. 486) Are PBKs saying FEMALE PART in ArdhNaareeshwar in Shankar is not Parvati?:-
trueshaiv wrote:In Bhaktimarg scriptures , ....Those scriptures have been modified with time but still their is presence of truth in it as salt present in flour.
1) I have no problem to agree that truth in Bhakti scriptures or the pictures is just like salt in the flour. BUT, the argument of PBK Sita was- scriptures are like salt in flour, but pictures are not. According to PBK Sita - Bhakti pictures are fully accurate. - Please read properly - Flaw No. 465- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&start=1005#p52443

2) But, PBK arjun soul had openly said- the ArdhNaareeshwar in Shankar is Parvati and is DLR.

So- PBKs themselves have openly said it- without need of any Bhakti scripture or pictures.

3) Now- if PBKs believe ArdhNaareeshwar(AN) in Shankar is not Parvati, it goes against Bhakti belief- because in Bhakti, parvati only is shown as female part in Ardh_Naareeshwar.

4) If PBKs NOW like to argue- Female part in AN is not Parvati, but some other personality, then what is the name of that female in AN? Is it Bull*?

5) And- how many wives does the PBk Shankar have? Parvati/Gowri, ganga, and Bull? - Three? So- in PBK view- Shankar is vyabheechaari**?

So- if we take ANY POINT OF VIEW- PBK theory is just contradicting with itself as well as Bhakti memorials or scriptures or with Murli points.
So, now the Supreme Soul through the permanent Chariot(2nd murti) gives us clarification of Murlis so that we can relate those scriptures with this vastly knowledge.
6) Is Mr. Dixit second murti? Not first one? PBKs believe God used that Chariot as first one - from 1936 till 1942.
Or, if you are taking PBK Trimurti picture, Mr Dixit is shown as third murti- first KD, then Vedanti, third is Dixit. I do not know on what reference you are saying the above.
As it has also been said in Murli "In shastron mein to bhoosa bhara padha hai."
7) Just waste and futile argument/response- and beating around the bushes by yourself. I had already said- I have no problem to agree that truth in Bhakti scriptures or the pictures is like salt in the flour. ... [see response 1) above]
Its been said in Murlis, "tum sab parvatiyan ho" "tum sab sitayein ho". Therefore it is not about one parvati or one sita as shown in scriptures. AmOng all the parvatis in this vastly knowledge, there would be one parvati or sita at rank 1
8) Again just futile argument. Because arjun has already implied there- Real Parvati is DLR!

OK, let us take your point now. So- in your point of view- is the parvati shown in AN is not Number one parvati? Is it number two then? In other words- are YOU SAYING DLR IS PARVATI NUMBER 2?
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* - Actually, I should have pointed out this mistake in the VERY BEGINNING itself- when PBKs had placed DLR in the seat of AN.

Who will believe female in Ardh_Naareeshwar is not Parvati?Of course, PBKs may argue like- my cock has three legs.

**- In BK view- both Gouri/Parvati and ganga - both are one and the same- as already explained here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51851&hilit=Ganga#p51851

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 14 Feb 2017

# Flaw No. 487) PBKs openly imply- their Jagadamba and other mother do not fall into real PRAVRUTTIMARG:-

More PBKs try to defend themselves, more they are falling down.
trueshaiv wrote: Therefore, since DL Brahma(soul of Krishna and mother's role) and Baba Dixit ji(soul of Ram and Father's role) act through one personality i.e. through permanent Chariot(Chariot of Ram or Shankar) its been sung in scriptures about Ardhanareeshwar which again shows pravruttimarg male and female in one body, being parent to world of Brahmins through one personality, irrespective of if children realize it now or not. Could be little confusing but not too difficult to understand. Nothing is impossible
1) Murli point clearly says- Brahma is BOTH Father and mother. There is no need of this particular explanation. Baba has also said- "maatpita is said to one".

2) And- it just becomes illogical. Because PBKs claim- DLR is child of Dixit and sister Vedanti (as per shooting of 1936).
Then HOW CAN the child (DLR) be mother of (entire) braahmin world including his own mother (Vedanti)?

3) Now- if PBKs believe- Mr. Dixit and DLR are the real parent to the entire braahmin world, then the PBK Mother Jagadama will be even more cornered. Then in PBK view- DLR is mother to even Kamala Devi!

4) Even sister Vedanti loses her value from ALL POINTS OF VIEW.

a)First of all- she falls out of the parent of braahmin world, and hence she falls out of the highest pravruttimarg, as it is soul of DLR who is combined with Mr. Dixit, and not her!

b) Second point is- She is not in AIVV, not a PBK. Yet to take real/spiritual birth!

c) And- MOST IMPORTANT POINT IS- after 1969 - IN PBK VIEW- EVEN SHE IS RECEIVING CLARIFICATIONS/HINTS FROM DLR!- as per below.
Shiv Supreme Soul played the soft and loveful role of mother in corporeal form through Brahma Baba and is now playing the strict and knowledgeful role of Father in corporeal form through the permanent Chariot("Baba Dixit ji"). However after Brahma Baba left his corporeal form in 1969, he enters the permanent Chariot to listen to the clarifications and gives hint to the worthy children of Vijaymala in BKWSU through Gulzar Dadi so that they can realize the present corporeal role of Supreme Soul in permanent Chariot in world of Brahmins. Since its been said in Murlis, only deities can understand the hints.
5) So- FINALLY - PBKs themselves INADVERTENTLY prove that their story of 1936 is just a BOGUS LIE.
Because if in 1936- sister Vedanti had done shooting of giving clarification to DLR, HOW COME - after 1969 till date- SHE IS RECEIVING CLARIFICATIONS/HINTS FROM DLR?

Nothing tallies, dear soul.

6) Just for interest- If we like to continue the pbk story as said above- If the clarification process gets reversed - in case of sister Vedanti, why it cannot happen in case of Mr Dixit, - as in PBK view- Mr Dixit is also like a parent of DLR like sister Vedanti.
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 14 Feb 2017

# Flaw No. 488) Mr. Dixit fooled PBKs by calling them as deities:-
Since its been said in Murlis, only deities can understand the hints.
1) Mr Dixit has fooled PBKs from all ways. PBK literature are not hints- they are like ocean- of course, with countless contradictions and blunders, as already proved here.

2) OK- let us agree - PBKs are implying about their Vijayamala group. But, HINTS would be in SMALL quantities or points.
PBKs believe their VijayaMala head is receiving the so-called hints FROM 1969 ITSELF till DATE!- but yet has not approached AIVV or realized their ShivBaba!
Can ALL THOSE heard/studied from 1969 - be called as just HINTS?

3) How foolish, childish PBKs are - Mr. Dixit has made PBKs as his own puppets, and PBKs are just like parrots, nothing more.

Let God bless them.
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One more thing I would like to add here. Please go through the Avyakt Vani dated 5/12/2016 wherein Brahma Baba has clearly given hint about Brahma (temporary Chariot) and prajapita Brahma(permanent Chariot) and how prajapita Brahma(soul of Ram)met Supreme Soul in sookshm stage of mind and consciousness on this day back on Dec 5th 1969 and this is the day which should be celebrated as actual smriti divas in world of Brahmins.
I will go through it. If you already have it readily, you may mention here.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by trueshaiv » 14 Feb 2017

Brother mbbhat,

After reading all your responses, I just have one expression for you: "It's OK" as I said earlier you have already anticipated the end of every conversation.

That's fine. Its ought to happen at your end and thats perfect as per drama ;)

My best wishes
Om Shanti

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 15 Feb 2017

# Flaw No. 489) Murli Point:- They come like lion, but then become buffalo:-

1) In one of my journey, I accidentally met a PBK wearing almost white dress (say 75%), carrying some PBK literature, etc. That PBK sister/brother had been discussing knowledge with lowkik people. Initially I had not noticed it.

But- when I heard the PBK soul saying - "We teach Brahmakumaris*" - my attention was drawn towards them. [Mostly, in the discussion, lowkik people could have uttered the word BK by seeing the pictures in the hand of the PBK brother/sister. In response to it, the PBK would have said so*].

* - What else can PBKs say? [Of course, it is difficult for both BKs as well as PBKs while giving message to others- in case if anyone asks about BK, PBK, Vishnu Party, or next party].

2) But, now - the PBk says-
trueshaiv wrote:After reading all your responses, I just have one expression for you: "It's OK" as I said earlier you have already anticipated the end of every conversation.
3) Obviously. As there is no need of teaching for the BKs from the PBKs. PBKs still think like MIYAMITTU that BKs need to learn from them. I would like to know to what extent PBKs can defend their claims, not to learn from PBKs.
If you still like to perform gyaan ka dance, you may continue, as you had said-
Therefore, the participation will always be at its peak from our end but yes always with good thoughts.
4) So- if you cannot have good thoughts, you may kindly remain quiet, else if you can have good thoughts, and really interested in the so-called CHURNING, you may continue performing dance of knowledge.

5) Since it is PBKs who had thrown ball into the court of BKs, I am just hitting THEIR OWN BALL to their court. So- do not take it personally.

All the best.
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5) Now- from the PBK responses above - I remind the Murli point saying- "Sher ban_kar aayenge, lekin aane ke baad bhains ban jaayenge. = They come like lion, but later, they will become like buffalo."

6) Very interesting point is- PBKs say- "to deities, just HINTs are enough", and the HINTs are being given by B Baba through Gulzar Dadi.

Then what is the need of PBKs to give further clarification on the so-called HINTs?

7) See the bhool- bhulayya khel of PBKs.

--First Mr Dixit gives clarification to- RB(Radha bachchi- sister Vedanti), AB(Adi Brahma) - KD and DLR in 1936.
--Then in 1969, he receives clarifications/knowledge from sister Vedanti!
---Then DLR receives clarifications/hints from Mr. Dixit by staying in his body.
---Then Mr. Dixit gives his further clarifications on THOSE hints (Avyakt Murlis) once again!
---Then the so-called PBKs give their own so-called numbwer-wise clarifications to BKs!

8) If PBKs wish to churn for themselves,, one more point can be added.
PBKs claim for the deities- just HINT is enough. But, the same Sevakram, RB and KD/AB- all the three failed in 1942 and 1947.

OK- let us give margin to PBKs - that the PBK Rudrmala souls need more knowledge, hence could have failed due to not having enough knowledge.
But, why did the head of PBK Vijaymala fail in 1947, if she is a deity and just HINT is enough for the deities?

Even there, when Mr. Sevakram left Yagya, she could not recognize him (did not follow him). In 1947, she even left ShivBaba! (could not recognize role of ShivBaba through DLR).

So- so-far - no HINT worked for the top most PBK deity! What would be the state of the rest?!

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 15 Feb 2017

BUT, the argument of PBK Sita was- scriptures are like salt in flour, but pictures are not. According to PBK Sita - Bhakti pictures are fully accurate.
I have not said that. I said that in the Murli it is said about the salt and the flour with respect to the scriptures and it is not said about the pictures. It is from the point of view of correctness. It does not mean I have said that pictures are fully accurate.

In fact there is a point about the pictures. It is said that many pictures are prepared on devilish advice. I knew you could misinterpret my words and here you go.

Deities pick up hints means they think on themselves and act on themselves, they don't have to be told what to do.

Baba has said that you are all Parvatis. Is Brahma Baba not included in this? He is Jagadamba. His part is very important. It is said that when he becomes pure all become pure.

Baba establishes two religions. (even three with the brahmin religion). And in this Brahma Baba is the head of the deity religion. He has a helping partner that is Mama and the soul of Ram stands for the kshatriya religion who has the helping hand of Sita. So in ardhanarishwar we have the Supreme Soul who speaks knowledge and establishes the brahmin religion of giving and taking of knowledge, and we have the head of the deity religion or righteousness, tolerance, purity etc. and the head of the Kshatriya religion with the power to face and male like qualities. Brahma Baba may have been in a male costume in the Confluence Age, and every soul is a male, with respect to the female body, but a soul takes males and females bodies. So we should not judge by the body and if Baba has said that Brahma Baba is Jagadamba we should accept he has qualities of a mother. Baba has said all souls are sitas and parvatis, irrespective of the body.

Regaring if (female) deity is one or many, Baba has said that the deity is one, they are not eight, but it plays part through many. So the deity is one, but there are eight souls through which she plays special part.

But If you like to see the form of Ardhanareshvar of Shankar and Parvati with their own different bodies, because this is the original meaning, they have their own different bodies and become one through harmonising their sanskars. They give half of themselves and take half of the other. It becomes a mixture of the quality of the male and female, power and purity, knowledge and service, rudramala and vijaymala.

It is Baba who has said that Brahma Baba is like a baby, clean. Ganesh stands for purity. Knowledge does not mean just speaking knowledge. Knowledge means inculcating in practical life. He plays part in the beginning of writing of Murlis (writing of Mahabharata) and also now he is coming in Dadi Gulzar where he speaks very good knowledge. Why would not he be Ganesh? Ganesh stands for purity as Brahma stands for purity. It is said we have to follow Brahma, we have to become brahmachari.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 15 Feb 2017

# Flaw No. 490) "In PBK view"- Do yaadgars include "number two" and "number three" as well?
sita wrote:Baba has said that you are all Parvatis. Is Brahma Baba not included in this? He is Jagadamba. His part is very important. It is said that when he becomes pure all become pure.
1) First of all- In BK view- B baba is parvati of ShivBaba, not of Mr. Dixit.

2) Now- in PBK view- If B Baba is parvati of Mr. Dixit (in AN role), kindly address the question - already asked - Is DLR number 2 Parvati?*

3) Now- to another point. According to me, (or even logically, as Murli says- "yaadgaar is of one") - Mostly- yaadgaars would always be that of number one personality. Of course- It is understood that others are also included as numberwise.
So- logically speaking - There cannot be yaadgaars of "NUMBER TWO PERSONALITY" and/or "NUMBER THREE".

4) In the same way- The PBK concept of two Krishnas fail once again by the above logic. Because in yaadgaars of Krishna, Krishna is depicted as child or as God of Gita.

---PBKs believe - Both - the Krishn bachchaa (Child Krishna) is DLR, as well as the yaadgaar of God of Gita is also for DLR.

So- as per the above logic - which says- "yaadgaar is of one" - (I am not saying to accept. Left to the readers or Murli believers), Then the title "Number One Krishna" goes to B baba, not to Mr. Dixit.

5) IN CASE- if PBKs believe there can be yaadgaars of "number two" and "number one" as separate [WHAT THEY HAVE JUST (inadvertently) IMPLIED], then they may list at least few important yaadgaars, and discriminate in those pictures- like- "This particular picture is yaadgaar/memorial of "number one Narayan", ... and "in this particular one, - it is number two Narayan", etc. - is it not?
But If you like to see the form of Ardhanareshvar of Shankar and Parvati with their own different bodies, because this is the original meaning, they have their own different bodies and become one through harmonising their sanskars. They give half of themselves and take half of the other. It becomes a mixture of the quality of the male and female, power and purity, knowledge and service, rudramala and vijaymala.
6) Original meaning is still confusion only. Because sister Vedanti is far from Mr. Dixit. when compared to DLR. Then she loses the value. But, OK. [Anyhow, that is not the main issue here.]

* - Sorry to comment. You do not address the issue fully, and like to reply just to one side, and then accuse the other.
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you all are parvatis. Is Brahma Baba not included in this?
Baba has said all souls are sitas and parvatis, irrespective of the body.
7) So- in the PBK view- Mr. Dixit also would be included in this** and OBVIOUSLY he too would be a Parvati as well as Sita- right?

So- PBKs may NOW kindly express- Is Mr Dixit number three parvati then? Where/which is yaadgaar of Mr. Dixit as Parvati and/or Sita?

Or if PBKs like to change the sequence- and wish to say - Mr. Dixit as number one parvati, sister Vedanti is number two, DLR is number three, they may correct and address the matter PROPERLY/FULLY instead of addressing just to TAIL of the issue.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 17 Feb 2017

Continuation of previous post -

8) Now- a question arises- Baba gives title Jagadamba to both Brahma Baba and Mama. So- a question arises- who is number one Jagadamba, and who is number two among these, and where is yaadgar of both.

9) But, Baba has clearly said- "Even though this one (B Baba) is first Jagadamba, he DOES NOT get that title. He does SERVICE as Father. The title Jagadamba goes to smaller mother". [If I get date, I will put it, but at present do not have].
Meaning, although B Baba performs the INCOGNITO Service of a Mother - being the Spiritual Wife of ShivBaba - through whose Lotus Mouth the Righteous Brahmins are Spiritually re-born, he performs the EVIDENT, PRACTICAL Service as a Father, being in a male corporeal body; while Om Radhe Mama performs the EVIDENT, PRACTICAL Service as a Mother, being in female corporeal body.

---That is why Baba says- "this mother(B baba) is gupt (incognito). Memorial is of smaller, or Junior Mother". So- in the yaadgaar of Jagadamba, B baba is not included. It is of just Mama only.

# Flaw No. 491) Male cannot be called as Jagadamba:-

10) SM 29-9-78(1):- Geeth- Chod bhi de akaash simhaasan.. Om Shanti. Bachchon ki buddhi may kyaa aataa hai? Koun aayaa hai? (Baap, teacher, Sadguru). Maatpita akshar toh zaroor chaahiye. Maatpita akshar toh naamigraami hai. Tum Maatpita….. Peeche tum kah saktey ho- Baapdada. YAH (YOON) TOH MAATPITA MAY BAAP AA JAATAA HAI. PARANTU NAHIN. YAH SAMJHAANE KAA TAREEKA HAI MAATPITA. Kyonki Baap hai. Rachnaa hai toh Maata zaroor chaahiye. AB MAATAA PAHLEY KOUN HAI? Yah hai guhy te guhy baath. Kyaa Prajapita honey se bhi maataa chaahiye? PRAJAPITA BRAHMA KE SAATH KOYI PRAJAPATNI CHAAHIYE? NAHIN. KYONKI MUKHVAMSHAVALI HAI. ISLIYE BRAHMA KI PATNI KOYI HO NAHIN SAKTI. YAH BAHUT GUHY AUR GAMBHIR BAATEIN HAIN. IS SAMAJHNE AUR DHAARAN KARNE MAY BUDDHI CHAAHIYE. Yah ek hee Baap hai, bachchon ke sammukh aate hain. Tum samajhte ho phalaanaa Maatpita baapdada sanmukh aaye hain. Bachche baahar may service karte hain centres par jo rahte hain vah yah nahin samjhenge ki Maatpita Baapdada sanmukh aaye hain. Vah samjhenege phalaani BK athvaa Brahmakumar aaye hain. Aur yah(Mama) adopt kee huyi hai. Sabsey lucky sitaaraa Jagadamba hai. Sambhaalney liye mukhy hai. Isliye in par kalash rahta hai. AUR YAH (BRAHMA) TO HO GAYI BRAHMAPUTRA MALE KE ROOP MAY. TOH Saraswati ZAROOR CHAAHIYE. Saraswati KO HEE JAGADAMBA KAHAA JAAYE. IS MALE KO TOH JAGADAMBA NAHIN KAHENGE. Yah badaa achchaa raaz hai jo koyi bhi Gita, bhaagavat may nahin hai. -91 vvimp [Maatpita] ......................................

...= ... There cannot be wife to Brahma. ....This male cannot be called as Jagadamba....

Baba CLEARLY says- "the male personality does not get title Jagadamba". But, PBKs believe otherwise.

11) Some points are here. - Between flaw No. 121 to 124 , - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&start=480#p50900
sita wrote:No, ShivBaba has said that Brahma Baba is in fact Jagadamba.

In the Shivling, the female part is Parvati. In the Murli, ShivBaba has said that we are all Parvatis, even the soul of Ram is number one Parvati.
12) So- PBKs believe "number one parvati is Mr. Dixit, and not sister Vedanti". Now- how do they explain - "Mr Dixit is number one parvati"- left to them.
arjun wrote: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=41752&hilit ... ari#p41752 - Shivling itself is the memorial of Prajapita (ling), Jagdamba (jaladhari) and Shiv (the point). So, no need to keep a separate picture of Shankar.

Shaligrams are memorials of the alokik Brahmins who become completely soul conscious.
14) Is jaladhari Jagadamba (KD), and not sister Vedanti - in PBK view?

How does Mr. Dixit play role of jaladhari in Shivling then (as in PBK view- Mr. Dixit should be number one Jagadamba too- right? - since they give all the titles to Mr. Dixit!]

So- I find again only mutual contradictions in PBK philosophy.
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In BK view- the title Jagadamba practically goes to only one personality (Mama). Hence the logic of saying "yaadgaar is for one" - fits properly.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 17 Feb 2017

# Flaw No. 492) Brahma cannot have wife:-

1) Baba is implying- "in Conf. Age, the couple is of Father and child, not husband and wife". But, PBKs have given their Prajapita Brahma (Mr. Dixit) more than one wife!
sita in flaw No. 122 wrote: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50900&hilit=widow#p50900
ShivBaba has said that worshipper of devis are Ravan community. Now it is the kingdom of Ravan, so everywhere you see "Jay mata di", but not "Jay Pita di", but in India married woman are respected and not widows. So there must be a Father behind that mother, but if someone will have impure intention he will like to worship single devi. But mother and Father are worshipped together as Shankar and Parvati too.
2) One of the main cause for the PBK failure is Mr Dixit made the beads as couple in Conf. Age itself! - thereby kept incorporeal ShivBaba sideway/dummy.

3) The Murli point clearly says (refer to previous post) - "There cannot be wife of Brahma". But, PBKs inadvertently imply- there is wife for Prajapita. They believe both their TG(sister Vedanti), and FG(KD) played role of wives of of Prajapita.
They even openly or inadvertently imply- even DLR played role of wife of Mr Dixit in the role of Ardh_Naareeshwar!

4) From the Murli points, I believe- Baba usually speaks- There are two couples in Conf. Age.

---First is "Father and child/son" = Shiv plus Brahma Baba, [couple of corporeal and incorporeal]
---Second is "Father and child/daughter" = B Baba plus Mama. [The top two beads in mala].

In the above Murli point- Baba is saying about Father and daughter- Baba is saying- Both Brahma/Father and Jagadamba/daughter are god and goddess of knowledge.

In other Murli points, Baba says- "Brahma is my (spiritual) Wife".

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 17 Feb 2017

# Flaw No. 493) Baba says- "I do not come in the form of LN":-

1) SM 14-12-76(2):- Bhaktimarg kaa kitnaa prabhaav hai. BAAP AATE HI HAIN JHOOTHI DUNIYAA MAY, SO BHI SAADHAARAN ROOP MAY. DRAMA MAY NOONDH HI AISEE HAI. PATIT SHARIR MAY HEE AATE HAIN. LN KE ROOP MAY THODE HI AAVENGE. Unhon ko toh raajy bhaag milaa huvaa hai. Toh unmay kaise aavoon? Mujhe saadhaaran roop may dekh pahchaan nahin saktey. Pukaarte hain, parantu yah samajhte thode hee hain ki vah bhi zaroor koyi sharir may aavenge na. Meraa roop toh hai hee niraakaar, bindi. Toh zaroor Prajapita Brahma ke tan may hee avoongaa. PRAJAPITA TOH ZAROOR YAHAAN HONAA CHAAHIYE. ZAROOR PURAANAA TAN HOGAA. YE (BRAHMA) PURAANAA AUR BAAJOO MAY NAYAA (Vishnu) KHADAA HAI. Trimurti KE CHITR MAY KITNAA GYAAN HAI. YAH SAARAA SAMJHAANEVAALE KE OOPAR MADAAR HAI. CHITR KITNEY SIMPLE HAI. GAATE BHI HAIN BRAHMA DWAARAA STHAAPNAA, Shankar DWAARAA VINAASH. YAH TOH BRAHMA VAHI HAI NA. YAH PATIT SO PAAVAN BANTE HAIN. Baap inkaa occupation baith bataate hain. Inkey bahut janmon ke bhi anth ke janm may main pravesh kartaa hun. Yah vahi hai jo punarjanm lete hain. SOOKSHMVATAN MAY BHI VAHI MILTE HAIN. -62- [Prajapita, rath, madaar]

= ... Father comes in false world, so in impure body. ... (He) does not come in the form of Lakshmi and Narayan. They have got fortune of Kingdom....

2) PBKs imply- from 1976, Mr. Dixit is fit for the title Narayan. But, baba is saying he does not enter into Narayan!

3) Baba also has said- "LN have got fortune of Kingdom"- in past tense. This adds another point to flaw No. 283 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51650&hilit=tense#p51650

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 18 Feb 2017

# Flaw No. 494) Another great Murli point on Prajapita for PBKs to churn:-

1) Many Murli points say- "They believe Prajapita Brahma is in Subtle Region. But, PPB should be here. Subtle Region dweller cannot be called as Prajapita".

The above is said keeping lowkik belief in mind*. But, this can EASILY BE MISINTERPRETED, as BKs believe DLR is in Subtle Region after 1969- And this is what Mr. Dixit did at first place.
But -

2) SM 21-1-89(1):- Aajkal bhal Shiv se Yoga lagaate hain, poojaa karte hain, parantu jaante unko koyi naheen. Yah bhee naheen samajhte PPB zaroor Sakar duniyaa may hoga. Moonjhe huye hain. SAMAJHTE HAIN PPB TOH PAHLE2 Satyug MAY HONAA CHAAHIYE. Agar Satyug may PPB ho toh sooskshmvatan may kyon dikhaayaa? Arth naheen samajhte. VAH Sakar HAI KARM BANDHAN MAY, VAH SOOKSHM HAI KARMAATEET. YAH GYAAN KOYI MAY NAHEEN. Gyaan denevaalaa ek Baap hee hai. -27 -vvimp [Prajapita]

= ... People do not know PPB would be in corporeal world. They have got confused. They believe PPB should FIRST be in Golden Age. (But) if PPB would be in Golden Age, why should he be shown in Subtle Region? They do not understand. This Sakar is in karm bandhan. That subtle is karmaateet. No one has this knowledge. ...

Most beloved Baba is saying- "They believe First PPB should be in Golden Age" - This is obviously said for lowkik people (or new comer BKs who still are attached to Bhakti beliefs)*. Here, PBKs fail FULLY. They cannot apply this to BKs.

3) Baba is ALSO implying - the one shown in Subtle Region is none other than PPB. That is why Baba is asking- "if PPB would be in Golden Age, why should he be shown in Subtle Region (TOO) ?".

*4) In Bhakti, people believe the creator is Prajapita/Brahma and he should be the first man. So- Baba says- in THAT TONE.

"First" can apply to Golden Age.
"First" can also apply to Subtle Region as well- since it is believed that PPB created the corporeal world by siting "somewhere above".

But, Baba says- I do not create new world, I just transform old world, so I come in impure world, in impure body.

Now- "First" can also apply to Conf. Age since the process of transformation begins from Conf. Age. Post No. 99 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 130#p12335

5) The cause for all these CONFUSION is-

SM 8-3-77(2):- Braahman dharmvaale manushy se tum so devtaa dharmvaale ban rahe ho. Toh zaroor Prajapita Brahma chaahiye. Krishn ko nahin kah sakte. Yah ultaaa bataa diyaa hai ki Krishn ko itnay raaniyaan, bachche they. Yah bhool hai. Vaastav may bachche hain Brahma ko na ki Krishn ko. Brahma so phir Krishn bante hain. BAS- IS EK JANM KI UTHAL PAATHAAL MAY MANUSHY MOONJHTE HAIN. Gita kaa bhagvaan Krishn ko kah Shiv ko udaa diyaa hai. Sabhi kahte hain Brahma ko teen(3) mukh they. Teen mukhvaalaa Brahma honaa chaahiye. Kitni moonjh huyi padi hai. Shiv rachaita ko gum kar diyaa hai. [95]

= ... Brahmins only become deities. So defintely PPB is also necessary. Krishn cannot be called as PPB. They have said ultaa that krishn had so many queens. This is wrong. ACTUALLY THEY ARE CHILDREN OF BRAHMA, NOT OF KRISHN. (Of course, the same) Brahma then become Krishn. DUE TO THIS GREAT TRANSFORMATION IN ONE BIRTH, PEOPLE GET CONFUSED. They have said God of Gita as krishn and have made Shiv to disappear. ...

6) But, the PBKs do not touch these very important points which are clearly said. Mr. Dixit conveniently AVOIDED these Murli points and created a new story by manipulating the Murli points.

He gives other reasons for all the confusion, and puts blame on BKs. He believes - even when Sevakram was gobbled by Maya python, mistakes was of BKs.

7) This post is addition to Flaw No. 388 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=52026&hilit=dosh#p52026

Left for the PBKs to churn on the Murli points.

**8) Baba also says- No One has this knowledge - that the vyakt/karmbandhan Brahma himself becomes Avyakt/karmaateet Brahma.

Even if it is explicitly said in Sakar Murlis- (till 1969) - it is very difficult even for the BKs to understand it fully and explain properly. That may be the reason- Why Baba had to say- "I do not enter in complete Subtle Region region Brahma. That Brahma is not PPB".

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 18 Feb 2017

Most beloved Baba is saying
Your love for Baba will become clear automatically with your attitude. According to me, such display is exaggerated, but indeed it is your own wish.

Certainly, the points you quote about Prajapita refer to the outside world. No one denies that. But in the advanced knowledge they are applied to the brahmin world. You have to present arguments why this being applied to the brahmin world is not true.

Please, excuse me, I don't use quotes, but it is easier for me.

Pictures are true to the percentage we can see the truth in them. They are true to the extent that the ones who has made them is true. Some are more true, others less. I cannot tell in percentage.

Remembrance is of number one soul. With respect to Shiva, the soul of Ram is also Parvati. Parvati means the one who takes across. Shankar takes souls across to the stage of the soul, he takes them home (as depicted on the top of the picture of the tree).

With respect to purity it is the soul of Vishnu who takes across the soul of Ram, because it is a family path and for purity effort of both sides is required. One cannot possibly follow purity alone.

Brahma is such a Parvati that on him becoming pure everyone becomes pure. Now you tell which of them is number one Parvati.

If we see the form of Ardhanareshvar – what does it symbolize, the merging of male and female. It is like the form of Vishnu. Soul has no sex. Sometimes it is said that soul is male with respect to the body that is matter and female, but sometimes it is said that it has no sex. Male and female is with respect to the body. The Supreme Soul has no body, he is always a soul. Is it that in the form of ardhanarishvar he represents the male part, whilst, the female is Brahma. It has to obviously be two human souls – one with male and one with female qualities. Or if the ardhanarishvar means that Brahma is both mother and Father, he has both male and female qualities there in himself, what is the special about it. All souls have male and female qualities, are all souls Ardhanareshvar?

When we say that Brahma Baba is Ganesh and Ganesh is the deity of knowledge, is Brahma Baba narrating knowledge from his own or was it ShivBaba narrating knowledge?

Regarding Jagadamba you have quoted a point that says that Brahma Baba cannot have the title Jagadamba. But you have to explain why Baba has said that Brahma Baba is Jagadamba. It is not the PBKs who claim that. Murli says. You have to explain.

Baba has said that he cannot have the title Jagadamba, because the body is male. But when the same soul plays part in a female body it can have the name Jagadamba. (please, provide feedback with regards to this explanation, do you accept it, if not why, give your arguments, then please, give me the opportunity to comment based on your comment before we consider the matter concluded).

Please, don't worry, all questions will be addressed, but please, lets address them one by one until each of them gets exhausted and we have reached a point where you and me are content with where the discussion has reached, then we can proceed with the next question.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 18 Feb 2017

# Flaw No. 495) Mr Dixit now loses place in Shivling by DEFAULT itself:-
sita wrote:Pictures are true to the percentage we can see the truth in them. They are true to the extent that the ones who has made them is true. Some are more true, others less. I cannot tell in percentage.
1) Your quote was as if there is a great truth in Bhakti pictures when compared to Bhakti scriptures. So- obviously what should be guessed from it? Does it not imply- you are implying/arguing that the truth in pictures are at least more than 50%. Else, what is the significance of that comment?
With respect to Shiva, the soul of Ram is also Parvati.
2) So- where is this yaadgaar in Bhaktimarg- which should represent Mr. Dixit as jaladhari parvati. In that case, Mr. Dixit is out of Shivling! This was the point of argument. So, you are requested to reply to the point.
Brahma is such a Parvati that on him becoming pure everyone becomes pure. Now you tell which of them is number one Parvati.
3) This is actually not a praise. Mr. Dixit fooled PBKs and has taken for granted- and puts ball in court of B baba, and can say- since Brahma has not become pure, I am also incomplete now. [BTW- Murlis also say- B Baba is complete].
Whatever it is- if PBKs believe to become pure- reference is B baba, then number one title would go to B baba. PBKs lose everything, and should be satisfied only in number 2.
When we say that Brahma Baba is Ganesh and Ganesh is the deity of knowledge, is Brahma Baba narrating knowledge form his own or was it ShivBaba narrating knowledge?
4) Both. Baba has given title goddess of knowledge to Mama- even when ShivBaba does not enter her. So- giving knowledge independently (after understanding it) is definitely a criteria to be fulfilled for the person to be called as Ganesh. But, in PBK view- B baba is yet to understand their AK. This is where it contradicts.
Regarding Jagadamba you have quoted a point that says that Brahma Baba cannot have the title jagadamba. But you have to explain why Baba has said that Brahma Baba is Jagadamba. It is not the PBKs who claim that. Murli says. You have to explain.
5) Already explained. It is through Brahma adoption is done. Father Shiv adopts children through Mother Brahma. So- in the process of creation - Brahma is mother.

But, in service, the Chariot cannot move gali2, and hence it is shakti army which is kept ahead, so the leader Mama is the practical Jagadamba - when service is considered.

And- since ShivBaba is incognito(invisible), the Chariot would be in the front as if delivering the knowledge. So- Brahma plays role of Father.

In lowkik, it is Father who first gives money(or any material) to the mother and the mother then distributes to children.
Similarly here, B baba first gives (becomes instrument to give) money (knowledge, kalash) to the mother Mama, then Mama and others read Murlis to others. So- kalash is with females. [But, in AIVV, kalash is with Dixit only. KD does not explain any Murlis further. She does not give any reply to students'question, queries. - All these things have been put earlier].

6) SM 12-1-77(2):- Brahma Saraswati so LN. Vahi Radhe Krishn thay. Radhe apni Rajdhani ki thee, Krishn apni Rajdhani ka thaa. Gyan ka varnan to radhe paas nahin. Knowledge hai Saraswati paas. Goddess of Knowledge Saraswati hai. Radhe ko nahin kahenge. Saraswati knowledge se bhavishy may Radhe banti hai. Saraswati ko Goddess of Knowledge kahte hain. Unko zaroor baap se knowledge mili hogi. Saraswati hai Brahma ki beti. PRAJAPITA BRAHMA toh jagadamba bhi chahiye. Vaastav may yah gupt baath hai. Badi amba to yah(Brahma) hai. In dwara hee yah Saraswati nikli hai. Yah Jagadamba to gupt ho gayi. PARANTU DONON PART INKO NAHIN MILNA HAI. Kalash female par rakha jata hai Brahma dwara. Parampita Paramatma Brahma dwara gyaan dete hain maataavon ko. Jo badi beti hai vo Jagadamba gaayi jaati hai. Nahin to tum Brahma mukh dwara adopt hote ho to Mata yah ho gayi. Hoshiyaar may hoshiyaar Brahma ki beti Saraswati hai. Vo kahaan se aayi? Brahma ki stree to hai nahin. Vo hai Prajapita. To mukhvamshavali hogi na. Yah bhi drama anaadi bana banaya hai. Toh goddess of knowledge Saraswati hai. Ab religious conference hogi to usmay nirakar shiv to sabha may jaaye na sake. Brahma ko bhi nahin bitha sakte.(because Chariot cannot move gali2) Maataa ki mahima hai. Sabhi dharmvalon ke oopar mataa honi chahiye. Sabki Maa Jagadamba baith lori de. Bachche paaida hote hain Maataa dwara. Jagadamba sabki mataa thahree. Tum sabko unkay age sir jhukaanaa pade. Mata samjhaa sakti hai yah Bharashthaachaari duniya shreshthaachari duniya kaise bane va is Bharat may Shanti kaise sthaapan ho.

The Murli point clearly explains what is said in 5). Baba says- even though B Baba is Big mother, he does not get title of Jagadamba. Murli also says- B Baba does not get both the titles. His title is famous as Jagatpita or Prajapita.

7) SM 19-5-81(2):- Brahma dwara adopt karte. Phir Maa bhi zaroor chahiye.To jo anany bachchi hoti hai, Drama plan anusaar unko Jagadamba ka title diya jata hai. Male ko Jagadamba nahin kah sakenge. Inko Jagatpita kahenge. Inka PRAJAPITA BRAHMA naam mash_hur hai. Achchaa, Praja Mata kahaan? To adopt kiya jata hai mata ko. Adi Dev toh hai. Phir Adi Devi ko mukrar kiya jata hai. Jagadamba to ek hi hai. Unki hee mahima hai. -30

= Adoption is thorugh Brahma. Then mother also is definitely needed. According to drama plan, the one who is best daughter gets the title of Jagadamba. Male cannot be called as Jagadamba(world Mother). Inka(Brahma’s) name is famous by the word Prajapita. OK, where is Mother of praja(citizens). So mother is adopted. Adi Dev is (already) there. Then Adi Devi is adopted(fixed).

8) SM 4-11-82(3):- JAGADAMBA JAGATPITA KA AAPAS MAY KYAA SAMBANDH HAI YAH KOYI NAHIN JAANTE HAIN. Kyonki yah gupt baath hai. Maa toh yah baithi hai. Vah thi adopt kee huyi. Isliye chitr unkey baney hain. Unko Jagadamba kaha jaataa hai. Brahma ki beti Saraswati Jagadamba. TUM JAANTE HO JAGATPITA KI BETI Saraswati, YAH TOH HUMAARI BAHAN HAI. Bhal Maa ka title diyaa hai. Parantu thi toh beti na. Sahi karti thi Brahmakumaari Saraswati. Tum unko Mama kahte thay. BRAHMA KO Mama KAHNAA SHOBHTAA NAHIN THAA. Yah samajhney aur samjhaaney may badi refine buddhi chaahiye. -73 [Mama, LM, VAH, adoption, Prajapita]

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 18 Feb 2017

sita wrote:If we see the form of Ardhanareshvar – what does it symbolise, the merging of male and female. It is like the form of Vishnu. Soul has no sex. Sometimes it is said that soul is male with respect to the body that is matter and female, but sometimes it is said that it has no sex. Male and female is with respect to the body. The Supreme Soul has no body, he is always a soul. Is it that in the form of ardhanarishvar he represents the male part, whilst, the female is Brahma. It has to obviously be two human souls – one will male and one with female qualities. Or if the ardhanarishvar means that Brahma is both mother and Father, he has both male and female qualities there in himself, what is the special about it. All souls have male and female qualities, are all souls Ardhanareshvar?
9) Logically speaking- It has to be one male and one female, not two males with one male quality and another female quality. How can PBKs compromise here?
Moreover- PBKs believe Lekhraj Kirpalani does not play just role of wife of Mr. Dixit in his body. He even misuses his body.
Also- PBKs believe Lekhraj Kirpalani will not be present in his body all the day. PBKs believe Lekhraj Kirpalani enters KD too, as well as Dadi Gulzar.
PBKs even believe Lekhraj Kirpalani plays role of child as well and commits atrocity on mother KD. Mostly they believe Lekhraj Kirpalani sometimes plays role of child/son in body of Mr. Dixit too.
So- there is no one to one match between the two souls.

10) If we take Trimurti picture- every personality is balanced. Prajapita Brahma (Prajapita plus Jagadamba) , Vishnu (L plus N), and

Shankar ( B baba plus Mama). In Murlis, it is said- better to place Saraswathi in place of Shankar. - Post No. 97- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... aju#p12327

Murli also says- one who creates only becomes instrument to become destroyer. So- Prajapita is also destroyer, not just Shankar/Saraswathi.

So- all the three roles in Trimurti, are played by both- one male and one female.
In Vishnu- it is both L and N.

In Brahma, male is shown. In Shankar, female should be shown. [ But, still I do not know why BKWSU has not created such picture and when this particular picture of Trimurti would come. May be in drama at some time, it may come].

11) SM 12-11-80(3):- Bhaashan karna hota hai topics par. Yah topic koyi kum hai kyaa? Prajapita Brahma aur Saraswati. 4 bhujaayein dikhaate hain to 2 bhujaayein beti ki ho jati hai. Yugal to hai nahin. YUGAL TO VAASTAV MAY BAS Vishnu HEE HAI. Brahma ki to beti hai Saraswati. Shankar bhi yugal nahin hai. Is kaaran phir Shiv Shankar kah dete hain. Ab Shankar kyaa karte hain? Vinaash to hota hee hai atomic bombs se. Baap kaise baith bachchon kaa mowth karaayenge? Yah to paap ho jata. -56- [bhaashan, Shankar, inf, family-yugal]

= You should speak on topics. Are these topics less? Prajapita Brahma and Saraswati. Of the four hands shown, 2 belong to daughter. Of course, they are not real couple(husband and wife). Real couple is Vishnu only. Even Shankar is not couple. HENCE THEY SAY SHIV-Shankar. ...

12) The Murli point almost implies- in Trimurti, the in first role says- four hands - two of the Father, two of the daughter is recommended. So- it is like a couple (of two persons). But, it is not a real couple (= not husband and wife). Baba says- real couple (husband and wife) is just Vishnu only.

13) So- I believe even Shankar - cannot be husband and wife - which PBKs like to explain as if 50% male and 50% female are emerged from one body. That would obviously depict it as husband and wife. Hence practically four hands are shown just to Vishnu and mahalakshmi only.

14) Now-(not sure) PBKs may say- "we do not believe Mr. Dixit and DLR as husband and wife* in AN role".
---Now- they have only two options- "Father and daughter" or "Father and son".
---The option Father-son becomes invalid, since in the role AN, one should be female.
---So- the last option is- "Father-Daughter". But, PBKs never say DLR as daughter. And- they cannot ever do so. Because he is called as Big Mother.

Further great contradiction arises- If PBKs believe when soul of DLR enters into a female body, he can get title Jagadamba, then when he enters a male body, he should get a male title (Prajapita), is it not?
HOW CAN DLR (a male personality) entering into another male personality (Mr. Dixit) get a female tile?-
They are contradicting their own claims which they have done in the case of JAGADAMBA?
see below***[/size]

Baba has said that he cannot have the title Jagadamba, because the body is male. But when the same soul plays part in a female body it can have the name Jagadamba***. (please, provide feedback with regards to this explanation, do you accept it, if not why, give your arguments, then please, give me the opportunity to comment based on your comment before we consider the matter concluded)
15) No Murli point says- Brahma will enter some female or he will get title Jagadamba after entering into her.

16) As already addressed earlier- Male cannot be called as Jagadamba. Title Jagadamba goes to smaller mother, eldest daughter, one who had been putting signature as "Brahmakumari Saraswathi". Murli also says- jagadamba is only one. But, in PBK view- it is DLR, KD, and perhaps Om Radhe too. - so total endless contradictions.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 18 Feb 2017

Just another point to churn:-

17) SM 4-11-78(2):- Brahma bhi service par haajir hai. Aur phir jo sthaapnaa karte hain, vahi phir Vishnu ke do roop se paalnaa karenge. Mujhe PPB zaroor chaahiye. Adi Dev kaa barobar mandir bhi hai. Adi Dev kiskaa bachchaa hai? koyi bataavey. Is dilvaalaa mandir ke jo trustee log hain, vah bhi yah nahin jaante ki Adi Dev koun hai?, Unkaa Baap koun thaa? Adi Dev PPB hai. Unkaa Baap hai Shiv. Ab jinkaa mandir hai, unkey occupation ko nahin jaanthay aur baney hain trustee. Jagatpita kaa yah yaadgaar mandir hai. Is Adi Dev brahma ke rath may Baap ne baith gyaan sunaayaa. Kothari (room) may sab bachchey baithay hai. Sabhi kaa mandir toh nahin banaavenge. MUKHY HAI 108 KI MAALAA. TOH 108 KOTHARIYON KO BANAA DEE HAI. 108 KI HI POOJAA HOTI HAI. MUKHY HAI ShivBaba. Phir Brahma, Saraswati yugal. Vah ShivBaba hai phool. Unko apnaa sharir nahin hai. Brahma, Saraswati ko apnaa sharir hai. MAALAA SHARIRDHAARIYON KI BANI HUYI HAI, PHOOLON KI TOH NAHIN HAI. Sab maalaa ko poojte hain. Poojaa kar pooraa karenge, phir ShivBaba ko namaskaar karenge. Maathaa jhukaavenge. Kyonki usney in sabko patit se paavan banaayaa hai. Isliye pooje, gaaye jaate hain. MAALAA HAATH MAY LE BAITH RAM2 KAHTE HAIN. PARAMPITA PARAMATMA KE NAAM KAA KISKO PATAA NAHIN HAI. ShivBaba hai mukhy. Phir Brahma Saraswati bhi mukhy hai. Baaki BKKyaan jo2 purushaarth karte rahte hain, unhon ke naam honge. Aage chal tum sabko dekhte rahenge. JAB PICHAADI HOGI, TAB TUM YAHAAN AAKAR RAHENGE. JO PUKKEY YOGI HAIN, VAHI RAH SAKENGE. Bhogi toh thodaa thakaa sun_ney se khatm ho jaavenge. Koyi kaa operation dekhney se bhi manushy unconscious ho jaate hain. Abhi partition may kitney log marey. VAH LOG TOH GAPODEY MAARTE RAHTE HAIN KI HUMNEY BIGAR KOYI LADAAYI RAAJY LE LIYAA. PARANTU MAREY INTEY JO BAATH MATH POOCHO. Yah hai hi jhooti Maya….. Abhi sachchaa Baap baith tumko sach bataate hain. Baap kahte hain mujhe rath toh zaroor chaahiye. Main saajan badaa hun toh sajani bhi badi chaahiye. Saraswati HAI BRAHMA MUKH VAMSHAAVALI. YAH KOYI BRAHMA KI YUGAL NAHIN HAI. BRAHMA KI BETI HAI. UNKO PHIR JAGADAMBA KYON KAHTE HAIN. KYONKI YAH YUGAL HAIN NA. TOH MAATAAVON KI SAMBHAAL KE LIYE UNKO RAKHAA HAI. Brahma mukhvamshavali Saraswati toh brahma ki beti ho gayi. Mama toh javaan hai. Brahma toh boodhaa hai. Saraswati javaan brahma ki stree shobhthi bhi nahin. Half partner kahlaa na sakey. Yah toh Bharat may 60 varsh kaa boodhaa ho jaaye toh bhi 13 varsh ki ladki le lete hain. Ek geeth bhi hai na is par, kyaa karoon pati boodhaa mil gayaa… Abhi tum samajh gaye ho Mama toh bachchi hai. -49- [Prajapita, Adi Dev, prediction, Dilwala, Ram, mala, ShivBaba]

18) See the Murli point- "YAH KOYI BRAHMA KI YUGAL NAHIN HAI. BRAHMA KI BETI HAI. UNKO PHIR JAGADAMBA KYON KAHTE HAIN. KYONKI YAH YUGAL HAIN NA."

= This/She is not yugal of Brahma. She is daughter of Brahma. Why is she then called as jagadamba? Because this/she is yugal.

Baba is implying- actually- Saraswathi is not yugal/couple of Brahma, but only daughter. But, she plays the role of yugal, hence gets the name Jagadamba. [Baba is also comparing the 60 year male with 13 year female].

19) Baba also says- Abhi tum samajh gaye ho Mama toh bachchi hai = Mother is actually daughter.

20) Do PBKs like to address their main/first Brahma whom they call as jagadamba as daughter?

21) Baba also says- how importance to name Ram came? The reason is- people do not know the real name(Shiv) of God = they do not know who is God.

PBKs like to give advantage of it to Mr. Dixit.

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