Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 27 Apr 2017

# Flaw No. 529) In PBK view- giving divorce = living like lotus on mud?!:-
sita wrote:Haven't heard about that.
263) Post by Larena - 28th December 2012, 22: 56 Hrs - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2517&p=44198&hilit=2008#p44198

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2517&hilit=2008&start=45#p44246

264) Interestingly, Mr. Dixit has certified that KD has given him divorce. But, PBKs equate divorce is like a lotus in mud! - once again a great logic.
Mr. Dixit c/o arjun wrote: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2517&hilit=2008&start=45#p44258

Disc.CD No.546, dated 1.4.10 at Hansari, Jhansi
Extracts-Part-3

Time: 40.00-43.03
Student: Baba, why did Mama(KD) leave the Yagya now?
Baba: Why did Mama leave the Yagya? Is the senior mother a mother of the foreigners or not? Arey, speak loudly.
Student: She is.
Baba: Is she the mother of the foreigners? When they are foreigners... do the foreign women give divorce and leave or not?
Student: They do leave.
Baba: So, is she the mother of the foreign women or not?
Everyone said: She is....
265) Also- PBK arjun has said- KD will leave her body and will take next birth and then return to AIVV.
arjun wrote: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2517&p=44284&hilit=lakh#p44284 It has been clarified by ShivBaba that Jagdamba will leave her body and take rebirth to get her body rejuvenated due to her sanskars of Bhakti.
Dear sita soul, have you heard of this? If yes, when she will leave body and return? As PBKs believe year 2016-2018 is the date of final revelation. - right?
The matter with the spiritual mother and Father is that the parents and the children are of the same form. We are corporeal, our spiritual mother and Father are also in corporeal.
266) Thank you for clearly expressing that PBKs PRACTICALLY, do not give any value to incorporeal Shiv. They are bothered only about corporeal. But, still they claim many things about incorporeal and subtle. They claim subtle Brahma plays in their body. PBKs use subtle deity, Subtle Region- just in twisted way, as put in point No.s- 241 to 243.
subtle parent will give birth to subtle children. Or just incorporeal.
267) As said above- PBKs do not believe practically Subtle Region or subtle deity exist. Still they claim subtle parents can give birth to subtle children! - so a new type of birth. Good.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 27 Apr 2017

263) Post by Larena - 28th December 2012, 22: 56 Hrs - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2517&p=44198&hilit=2008#p44198

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2517&hilit=2008&start=45#p44246
I have listened to the classes from 2006 that Larena refers to and I don't know of such statement that Jagadamba will return in 2008. The significance of 2018 is with regards the Murli point that it takes 40-50 years to become pure.
265) As said above- PBKs do not believe practically Subtle Region or subtle deity exist. Still they claim subtle parents can give birth to subtle children! - so a new type of birth. Good.
I said a corporeal person cannot claim that his spiritual mother and Father are subtle. The parents and children has to have the same form.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 27 Apr 2017

Few more points/queries are edited/added in the post. You may kindly refer to them if you wish.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 27 Apr 2017

sita wrote:I have listened to the classes from 2006 that Larena refers to and I don't know of such statement that Jagadamba will return in 2008. The significance of 2018 is with regards the Murli point that it takes 40-50 years to become pure.
268) So- do you mean to say- in 2018, KD will return?
269) 40 to 50 yrs to be added to 1976?*
270) PBKs have declared 2008 date as well. - Post No. 184 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 008#p15003

* 271) So- it would be 2016(1970 + 40) and 2026(1976 + 50) - ?
sita wrote:I said a corporeal person cannot claim that his spiritual mother and Father are subtle. The parents and children has to have the same form.
Read your own words-
sita wrote:subtle parent will give birth to subtle children. Or just incorporeal.
BTW- Why cannot one claim so? Where is it said so? We believe he had been corporeal earlier.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 27 Apr 2017

268) So- do you mean to say- in 2018, KD will return?
No, I mean that the year 2018 is meantioned with other significance. It is not counted from 76, because it was the year of revelation, but 77 was the year of completion and the whole year has to pass, so we count from 1978.
We believe he had been corporeal earlier.
Certainly, but not now. And you also know we don't view Brahma Baba as Adam.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 28 Apr 2017

sita wrote:No, I mean that the year 2018 is mentioned with other significance. It is not counted from 76, because it was the year of revelation, but 77 was the year of completion and the whole year has to pass, so we count from 1978.
272) So- in one/two years, Mr. Dixit and his wife became complete*?
Certainly, but not now.
273) That does not matter. And, Murli points support it. Already put.
And you also know we don't view Brahma Baba as Adam.
Again- that does not matter. The topic is about flaws in pbk philosophy. Diverting from the topic and that too writing something which is totally insignificant (it is not a matter of debate.)?

272) Instead you may kindly reply to the queries- pbk arjun had said - KD will leave her current body. Do you agree with arjun soul?
So- what do you think about returning of KD? In 2018? In the same body or after another physical birth?, etc, etc.

And- who will come first to AIVV? - KD or sister Vedanti?

* 273)In his womb theory(flaw No. 171), Mr. Dixit, who had given the date of Shiv Jayanti as 2016.
Does year of revelation, and year of completion, and then final another year- are applicable here as well? [ and hence are you saying 2016 means 2018? ]

But, Shiv does not put any effort to become complete. He is already complete. So- how do you explain this?
Also- you may explain how Shiv Jayanti (just revelation or completion) has taken place in 2016 as per the above prediction of Mr. Dixit.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 28 Apr 2017

# Flaw No. 530) CULTURE of AIVV and their Trimurti - in their own view/words:-

274) PBKs believe Mr. Dixit/SevakRam was the one who had been first adopted by KD/AB in 1936 - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2112 . That is why they believe KD as first Brahma(mother) and Mr. Dixit/SevakRam as first brahmin(child).
So, as per this PBK argument, KD/AB is the mother, and Mr. Dixit/SR should be the first BACHCHAA/CHILD*. But,

275) In flaw No. 529 (refer to top of this same page) - Mr. Dixit has certified that KD has given divorce to him (in 1998), although he himself has not given divorce to her**. He has almost certified KD as his (alowkik) wife, and has regarded her to be a foreign cultured one.
---So- it is as good as Mr. Dixit(son) marries his own mother.
---Now, what is this culture- son marrying his mother?
Also, if Mr. Dixit has not given divorce to her, according to him, but only she has divorced him, then how can she marry another man, without first obtaining a proper divorce. Is this allowed in any foreign culture?
CLEARLY, Mr Dixit is talking UTTER NONSENSE, which the BLIND gullible PBKs are READILY LAPPING up, like HUNGRY puppies, is it not?

276) Further, Mr. Dixit (and/or PBKs) claims her faith is still perfect, and is living like lotus in mud.
Is Lotus symbol of foreign culture? Which FOREIGN woman will have same/firm faith on the previous husband?

277) If Mr. Dixit believes KD has given divorce to him, and she will leave her body due to Bhakti sanskaar in her, how can he or PBKs make statements - "her faith is still strong and her mind is connected to AIVV like a lotus in mud" - is there any sense in this?

278) PBKs further believe KD will return back to Mr. Dixit(AIVV). Which culture is this? Can this be expected from foreign women?

279) Mr. Dixit claims he is JagatPita (World Father), sister Vedanti is Bharat Mata (Mother of India/Bharat), and Kamala Devi(KD) is JagatMata (World Mother).
---Now, in PBK view- a foreign mother/lady is mother of world, not Indian mother!
So, they have put India/Bharat at lower place. WHAT LOGIC IS THIS?

280) In the same link, Mr. Dixit has implied both the mothers are his wife. So, it is as good as PBK Bharat/Dixit having two wives- one Indian, and other foreign. Which culture is this one?
Also, Mr Dixit claims that ONLY KD left him or divorced him, but NOT Sr Vedanti? If Sr Vedanti had not left him, or divorced him, she should have been with him in a physical body, together, is it not? Even though she is not married to an embodied soul, she is married to God. That means that even Bharat Mata has divorced him, PRACTICALLY, not World Mother alone! Then Mr Dixit gets around that by SLYLY saying that Sr Vedanti remembers him through the intellect, (since Shiva is combined with him, as ShivBaba), so she has not divorced him, but then the same should apply to KD as well, is it not? So how has KD divorced him, to prompt him to give the example of World Mother/KD divorcing him and marrying another man???
IN SHORT, this WHOLE INSANE AFFAIR is NOTHING but a MERRY-GO-ROUND of ABSOLUTE IDIOTS, which is why Shiva has CLEARLY DECLARED that if you wish to see MAHA-MURKH brahmin children, you should see them in this Yagya, is it not? CARRY ON CLEO!!!

281) The faithful mother of PBK Bharat is yet to recognize her husband; and the husband and the children are in PHYSICAL/PRACTICAL/CORPOREAL separation from her from 1976 itself. What culture is this?

*282) But, PBKs claim first child is B Baba! So, they are mutually contradicting.

** 282) Ironically, in 1942, Mr. Dixit/Sevakram gave divorce to both of his wives! - :laugh: So- is it that, as per karma philosophy, now, Mr. Dixit is facing divorce from them?

283) Further- When Premkanta gave divorce to Mr. Dixit, how did Mr. Dixit accept it immediately and gave that seat to KD?
But, why he did not do the same in case of KD?

284) Did Premkanta officially gave divorce to Mr. Dixit? How come Mr. Dixit happily accepted the divorce of Premkanta, and was happy to marry second wife KD?

285) So- finally Mr. Dixit has/had three alowkik wives- Premkanta, Sister Vedanti, and KD.
PBKs claim Mr. Dixit is Ram. But, deity Ram is famous for having single wife, not multiple ones.
But, by seeing this culture of Mr. Dixit, and that too, in the BLUE PRINT of the Conf Age, does it look good to give seat of Ram to Mr. Dixit?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 29 Apr 2017

272) Instead you may kindly reply to the queries- PBK arjun had said - KD will leave her current body. Do you agree with arjun soul? So- what do you think about returning of KD? In 2018? In the same body or after another physical birth?...
I think that whatever arjun Bhai has said he has not said it from himself, but he has said whatever he has heard in the advanced knowledge. I have also heard something like that and I believe it was connected with the matter that whoever will be having Bhakti sanskars left will have to leave the body. But I think it is about the end times.

About the soul of Lakshmi, it is said that she will come at the end only and that after stumbling and tolerating abuses and being thrown out of the BK.
273)In his womb theory(flaw No. 171), Mr. Dixit, who had given the date of Shiv Jayanti as 2016. 
Shiivjayanti means that as soon as Shiv comes he establishes kingdom. It is also said that it takes 40 years to establish the capital. So the kingdom will be established and revealed around that time.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 30 Apr 2017

# Flaw No. 531) How many PBKs know and believe that their second Jagadamba(Kamala Devi) too would shed her body?:-
sita wrote:I think that whatever arjun Bhai has said he has not said it from himself, but he has said whatever he has heard in the advanced knowledge. I have also heard something like that and I believe it was connected with the matter that whoever will be having Bhakti sanskars left will have to leave the body. But I think it is about the end times.
You are conveniently avoiding the discussion when you have no reply. It is matter of Jagadamba of PBKs, not others. So-
286) Better express properly/fully instead of giving reply only to tail. So- you may kindly express the sequence of the important following events (with date if possible- as PBKs like to mention dates more than any others)
---Jagadamba returning to AIVV,
---Jagadamba giving inheritance.
---Jagadamba leaving her body,
---Jagadamba taking another body,
---Jagadamba once again
---Sister Vedanti returning.
---Revelation/completion(?!) of Shiv Jayanti.
About the soul of Lakshmi, it is said that she will come at the end only and that after stumbling and tolerating abuses and being thrown out of the BK.
287) Logically weak point. How can then such a soul be called as soul of victory(Head of VijayMala)? PBKs claim when she/queen comes, the rest of the flies/army (2.25 lakh) will come. So- it should be like victory, not in the above way. But, thank you that for expressing that- in AIVV view- all are depicted as weak personalities only (and they just claim the words like Mahakali, etc- whom still they claim she has Bhakti sanskaar and will leave her body! - :sad: ).
Shiivjayanti means that as soon as Shiv comes he establishes kingdom. It is also said that it takes 40 years to establish the capital. So the kingdom will be established and revealed around that time.
288) Just- "It is said, it is said". Nothing has been explained properly. How and when Shiv Jayanti will be revealed.
So- you may explain how Kingdom has been established at different times, and what is the significance of each Kingdom.- if you like.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 30 Apr 2017

The inheritance we receive is mukti and jevanmukti. For jivanmukti we need to detach from the body and for jeevanmukti we need to purify the body. The inheritance of mukti is received by all the souls. It is said that from the Supreme Father the Human Father receives, from human Father the world mother and from world mother the children. It is not possible that children achieve mukti before the mother. Baba puts the mothers in front, because their intellect is surrendered to the children. When the mother develops detachment she becomes complete. When the mother becomes complete she will open the gates of heaven.

About Lakshmi it is said that like when we invoke Lakshmi we clean our house, so what we need to do is to just clean our house and she will automatically come by herself.
in AIVV view- all are depicted as weak personalities only
It is the body-consciousness of the people who abuse. Why would this indicate for the one who is abused to be weak. It is ShivBaba who suffers the most abuses, but he is not weak.

About Shivjayanti, the difference between the other religious fathers and ShivBaba is that when other religious Father come they get revealed immediately and after that they degrade, due to the influence of the souls in which they come and the influence of matter. But when the supreme Father comes he is not influenced by matter or any soul and he stays incognito, he is not after name, fame and respect. What he does is that he uplifts the one in whom he enters and then this one is revealed to the world in his complete stage. But along with him there are also other children, because it is said that the birth of the Father and children happen at the same time. So Father is revealed along with his children and this gathering of souls for which it is said that the fort of the pandavas will become so strong that no vicious one will be able to enter, this gathering is the capital. This capital will be so strong that all the capitals of the world, even if they unite they will not be able to destroy that and they will fight with that and finish themselves. This capital will be strong due to the fact that there will be unity, there will be one king, one language, one religion, one direction etc., whilst there is disunity in the other capitals.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 30 Apr 2017

About Lakshmi it is said that like when we invoke Lakshmi we clean our house, so what we need to do is to just clean our house and she will automatically come by herself.
289) Again illogical.
Baba has said(or even in lowkik) that where there is impurity/uncleanliness, Lakshmi cannot be there.
But, in PBK view- their Lakshmi would be in the company of uncleanliness (kouravas) and then would be thrown out of there!

290) PBKs could not explain how their Jagadamba gives inheritance, except saying in the same BK way.
BKs believe mothers are kept in front. There is no need to learn the following from PBKs.
sita wrote:Baba puts the mothers in front
--------
Regarding other points, no sensible reply, expect beating their own drum, and just beating around the bush, as usual. Let it be.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 30 Apr 2017

290) PBKs could not explain how their Jagadamba gives inheritance, except saying in the same BK way.
BKs believe mothers are kept in front. There is no need to learn the following from PBKs.
In fact the advanced knowledge is the knowledge from the Murlis.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 01 May 2017

sita wrote:In fact the advanced knowledge is The Knowledge from the Murlis.
291) Just LLU again.
The usual PBK claim is - they understand Murlis properly, BKs do not.
In most of their teachings, they claim/interpret differently.
So- even though they claim differently, they have not been able to explain even a little bit here. This was the point.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 01 May 2017

It is also knowledge to stick to the original points. This is not true that we interpret differently. The knowledge is simple and easy. The difference comes in following.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 01 May 2017

# Flaw No. 532) Another evidence that PBKs speak lies openly:-
sita wrote:It is also knowledge to stick to the original points. This is not true that we interpret differently.
292) Another plain lie. There is a great difference of interpretation between BKs and PBKs. It is PBKs who started their interpretation differently than BKs. But, the above PBKs says- they do not interpret differently.
However, it is true that the INNOCENT PBKs do delusively believe that they do not interpret differently, owing to their inverted intellects.

293) Moreover, PBKs do not have any originality. Their Father and mother keep on changing now and then. Now, PBKs say- their second Jagadamba too would leave her body.
If PBKs believe she will return back to AIVV and once again take the seat, why the same was not applicable to their first Jagadamba - Premkanta?
The Knowledge is simple and easy.
294) Of course, yes. The Knowledge is simple and easy for souls who have since developed divine intellects. But, PBKs have made it complicated, owing to their adulterated, corrupted & inverted intellects, and have been caught in their own trap. That is why they cannot give relevant replies, and keep beating around the bush, and dodging like snakes.
PBK Sita soul did not dare even to express his/her views- whether (s)he agrees with arjun soul, regarding their Jagadamba leaving her body, and when she plays her role of Mahakali- in the same body or the next body? And- how she is going to fulfill wishes of all?
The difference comes in following
295) Another plain lie. Difference comes first in understanding, then in following. If one has not understood the procedure and process CORRECTLY, how is one expected to carry out the experiment successfully? When PBKs fail to reply, they write as if- there is no difference in opinion (since they could not prove their own claims regarding the issue), difference is only in following. So, what, or whom, exactly are PBKs following? They are not even able to determine or state this logically, to being with, is it not?

296) But, there is absolutely no fault in PBKs, because how can we expect them to be accurate, when we believe -PBKs have fallen into their own deep pit.
So, all the best to them. Hope they develop some more maturity in replying.

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