Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 28 Jan 2016

# Flaw No. 112) PBKs inadvertently give the same seat to Lekhraj Kirpalani as Mr Dixit:-

1)PBKs criticize B baba that he has only temple at Ajmer. See flaw No. 101. [But, this explanation is totally baseless as already shown there as flaw No.47].- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50808&hilit=ajmer#p50808

2)But, if we question PBKs as - "there are even no temples of Prajapita as well?", PBKs reply- Prajapita and Jagadamba are is worshipped as Shankar and Parvati. [As they cannot give any proof of temples of Prajapita, they just equate Shankar into Prajapita]. So, far PBKs have not been able to reply why no temple of Prajapita exists in the form of Prajapita? [Of course, Baba has said reasons- post no. 66 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... nath#p9508 ]

3)But, Shankar is shown as Ardh_Naareshwar in Bhakti. PBKs believe it is Brahma Baba playing role of Mother in ArdhNaareeshwar..
abhimanyu wrote:The personality ShivBaba(Veerendra Dev Dixit) is in actual Ardhnareshwar because soul of both male(Veerendra Dev Dixit) and female(Lekhraj Kirpalani) is present in him. Veerendra Dev Dixit is the personality of Shankar who is considered to be the Father of entire humanity in bath of Bhakti.
Whereas Lekhraj Kirpalani is Brahma(Brahm + ma). Brahm means big and ma means mother. So he is the biggest mother. Thus the souls of biggest Father and biggest mother is present in Veerendra Dev Dixit due which he is Ardhnareshwar. It is this remembrance which has continued in the path of Bhakti. - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=492&p=49123&hilit= ... war#p49123
Now, are PBKs not INADVERTENTLY giving same seat to soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani as that of Mr Dixit?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by arjun » 28 Jan 2016

1)So, how come PBKs believe that there are THREE here?
Already explained hundreds of times that Baap refers to the Father of souls as well as Father of humanity. Dada refers to Brahma Baba.
2)But, if we question PBKs as - "there are even no temples of Prajapita as well?", PBKs reply- Prajapita and Jagadamba are is worshipped as Shankar and Parvati. [As they cannot give any proof of temples of Prajapita, they just equate Shankar into Prajapita]. So, far PBKs have not been able to reply why no temple of Prajapita exists in the form of Prajapita? [Of course, Baba has said reasons- post no. 66 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... nath#p9508 ]
Prajapita is a purusharthi form and hence no temples. Temples are made of the final forms which are either Shankar or Confluence Age Narayan.
Now, are PBKs not INADVERTENTLY giving same seat to soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani as that of Mr Dixit?

When Prajapita (1) and Jagdamba (108) are not on the same seats or levels how can Lekhraj Kripalani and Prajapita be at the same level?
2)Dixit came to gyaan only in late 1969. And PBKs believe it is only soul of B Baba who speaks in Dadi Gulzar, not ShivBaba. So, is it not that PBKs are NOW implying there was connection between subtle Brahma and ShivBaba, even without media of Dixit?
Why cannot they have connection?
So, NOW, PBKs ARE INADVERTENTLY IMPLYING THAT- ShivBaba CAN ENTER INTO SUBTLE BRAHMA- EVEN WITHOUT MEDIA OF DIXIT- Refer Flaw No. 73 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50630&hilit=INADVERTENTLY#p50630
Shiv never enters in subtle bodied Brahma as proved several times on this forum through Murli points.
3)You say- "intellect of Mr. Dixit was with ShivBaba on or before 23rd Jan 1969 itself?" :laugh: BTW, then why DID HE TAKE SO MUCH TIME to come to gyaan? He came only in late 1969.
I said that since ShivBaba always keeps His dearest children in front of Him while speaking, the soul of Prajapita was with Him. This doesn't mean that Prajapita was also remembering ShivBaba. How can he remember Him when he did not have the introduction at all?
5)If you believe in the Murli point (the words - we two) includes Mr Dixit also, then why do PBKs believe year of revelation is 1976? Why not 1969 itself?
How can it be 1969 when neither Shiv entered Gulzar Dadi nor Brahma Baba was in a corporeal body? Year of revelation can be celebrated only when the final or appointed Chariot (mukarrar rath) of ShivBaba is revealed in corporeal form.
6)If the intellects of all the three- Lekhraj Kirpalani, Mr Dixit and ShivBaba- all are so combined, then how and what does it matter- whether ShivBaba physically enters in subtle Brahma or not? What significance is there in that Murli point?
The Murli point holds significance because post-1969 BKs started having faith in the entry of Shiv based on physical changes in Gulzar Dadi seen during Avyakt Vanis instead of faith in Shiv based on the knowledge. This the very reason why many BKs are losing faith in Avyakt BapDada once the voice has changed and physical changes are not visible. Everyone is doubting whether Baba is coming or not.
7)If Mr Dixit is so dear to ShivBaba, and intellect of Mr Dixit can reach ShivBaba so easily, (WITHOUT TAKING ANY KNOWLDEDGE AGAIN), PBKs are again implying God WORKS THROUGH INSPIRATION, which goes against their own claims???
8)Also- if intellect of Dixit can reach to ShivBaba without taking any knowledge, why do PBKs believe lack of knowledge was cause for loss of faith of Sevakram in 1942?, that too, after playing role of number one thorn?
Already explained that it was Shiv who emerged Shankar and not Shankar who emerged Shiv before Nov-69.
9)If intellect of Mr Dixit was with ShivBaba constantly on or before 23rd Jan 1969, why did he not come to gyaan before this, when B Baba was alive?
Was not the corporeal Father of the PBKs interested to give sustenance to his children, the PBKs? Even if your father was so near and dear to ShivBaba, (as you say), was he just playing role of number one LUSTFUL thorn or just passing time in Iron Age during that period??? IS THIS THE REAL ROLE OF PRAJAPITA OF PBKs?
Unnecessary arguement in view of the above reply.
10)BTW, PBKs believe Sister Vedanti is Conf. Aged Lakshmi and Mr Dixit as Conf. Aged Narayan. Now, how both are combined together? Is that also INTELLECTUALLY? Is that also a constant combination? In such case, do PBKs believe there are actually FOUR SOULs, not TWO in the Murli point?
Definition of BapDada does not include her soul.
11)Again, as PBKs place Sister Vedanti in place of Vishnu in Trimurti picture, and as they believe all the three roles would be played in Conf. Age itself, (by three separate personalities), what is the sustenance PBKs received from her? IS THAT SUSTENANCE ALSO JUST BY INSPIRATION?
Confluence Age is not yet over. Just wait and watch before jumping the gun.
Of course, the rest of the replies have neither logic, nor truth, nor do they tally with Murli points, JUST THE USUAL GIBBERISH of the PBKs, FOR TIME PASS & NOT FOR REAL INCULCATION, which DOES NOT WARRANT ANY RESPONSE AT ALL
Same to you for most of your comments.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 29 Jan 2016

Flaw No. 113) Inability to CORRECTLY understand even SIMPLE Queries, and tendency to indulge in False arguments, as USUAL:-
1) Prajapita is a purusharthi form and hence no temples. Temples are made of the final forms which are either Shankar or Confluence Age Narayan.
1)Then what is the significance in PBKs criticizing B Baba, by highlighting that Brahma has only one temple at Ajmer? [Actually B Baba is praised as Krishna, as well as Narayan, Vishnu, etc].

Also- There are temples of Jagadamba(a purushaarthi form], so why not of Prajapita?
[Baba has said in Murlis, already mentioned.]
I am just highlighting the inability of PBKs to understand simplest of simple logic. You may write whatever you like, to keep yourself, and others like you, happy and content on your "WORSE THAN 'kindergarten' understanding", delusively believing that it is advanced knowledge.
2) When Prajapita (1) and Jagdamba (108) are not on the same seats* or levels how can Lekhraj Kripalani and Prajapita be at the same level?
2) Again, "WORSE THAN 'kindergarten' INTELLECT" response.
What I mentioned was, when PBKs believe soul of B Baba has the female part in Shankar, then PBKs are INADVERTENTLY GIVING EQUAL POSITION to DLR in the seat of Shankar as Ardh_Naareeshwar or as 'yugal-dana'.

Moreover, PBKs once again INADVERTENTLY believe "Shiv enters in SUBTLE Brahma". Because PBKs believe that the Ardh_naareeshwar female role is played by subtle DLR. So, it is as good as ShivBaba entering into subtle Brahma too, when he enters into body of Dixit or Ardh_naareeshwar form of 'Shankar'.

* - You can understand how illogical and "WORSE THAN 'KINDERGARTEN' INTELLECT" PBk theory is (SINCE EVEN THE NORMAL KINDERGARTEN CHILDREN WOULD HAVE BETTER UNDERSTANDING).
Murli point gives Jagadamba the very next seat of Jagatipita, but PBk philosophy does not.
Anyhow, that is discussed already.
3) I said that since ShivBaba always keeps His dearest children in front of Him while speaking, the soul of Prajapita was with Him. This doesn't mean that Prajapita was also remembering ShivBaba. How can he remember Him when he did not have the introduction at all?
3) So, U turn AGAIN? Does not that clearly imply that in the word 'Baap', there is no soul of Mr Dixit AT ALL? Is there need of any more evidence, about the CORRUPTED, REVERTED & INVERTED INTELLECTS of the PBKs?
4) How can it be 1969 when neither Shiv entered Gulzar Dadi nor Brahma Baba was in a corporeal body? Year of revelation can be celebrated only when the final or appointed Chariot (mukarrar rath) of ShivBaba is revealed in corporeal form.
4) You failed to understand the question itself. You said Mr Dixit was in remembrance with ShivBaba and subtle Brahma by 23rd Jan 1969 itself. So, my question was why not consider (in PBK VIEW) that year itself as revelation?
Was not Mr Dixit in corporeal in 1969 itself?
5) The Murli point holds significance because post-1969 BKs started having faith in the entry of Shiv based on physical changes in Gulzar Dadi seen during Avyakt Vanis, instead of faith in Shiv based on The Knowledge. This the very reason why many BKs are losing faith in Avyakt BapDada once the voice has changed and physical changes are not visible. Everyone is doubting whether Baba is coming or not.
5) Silly "WORSE THAN 'KINDERGARTERN' INTELLECT" arguments, ONCE AGAIN! Weak souls, LIKE THE PBKs and their bodily guru, Virendra Dev Dixit, ARE DEFINITELY DESIGNED & DESTINED to leave. During beggary period, many had left. There can be many causes for leaving. It is not that PBKs only know the reason for leaving, since THEY THEMSELVES ARE CLEAR OUTCASTS.

Are not even, many PBKs becoming ex PBKs? See the last Murli point in the Post- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... aal#p11517
BTW, even many PBKs have left AIVV. Would you like to comment ON THAT?

6) PBKs believe Mr Dixit was fit for title of Conf. Aged Narayan, Conf. Aged Krishna from 1976 itself. Was that final form or purushaarthi form? If you like, you may state from which year to which year (give break ups), Mr Dixit plays role of Prajapita, Conf. Aged Krishna, Conf. Aged Ram, Conf. Aged Narayan, Shankar, etc.

7) Even if we take PBK CONCEPT of the yaadgaar form of Ardh_Naareeeshwar, it once again proves to be a great error, as PBKs believe yaadgaar is of final form, and during final, there would be no DLR in body of Dixit.

8) Once again PBKs are taking another U turn. Because then their claims of saying the new moon on Shankar's head represents purushaarthi DLR goes AGAINST THEIR OWN STATEMENTS.

9) BTW, PBKs may say or make statements, like- Shankar is great, Shankar is number one, etc., any number of times - but they STILL cannot prove that Mr Dixit is Shankar, EXCEPT for his CORRUPTION & ADULTERATION of the PURE Knowledge in SMs and AVs, which is in ABSOLUTE consonance with the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED CONCEPTS of Bhakti or Ravan Rajya, which emerges from his mouth, which he and the PBKs consider to be advanced clarifications of the PURE Knowledge, when, in fact, it is the 'shooting' of the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED CONCEPTS of Bhakti or Ravan Rajya, USING the very SAME points in SMs and AVs, as per design of Drama - and in this sense, one would have to agree that these are indeed CORRUPTED 'UNLIMITED' CLARIFICATIONS PERTAINING to the CORRUPTED 'UNLIMITED' WORLD (in terms of population) of Ravan Rajya EXCLUSIVELY meant for the CORRUPTED 'UNLIMITED' INTELLECTS of the PBKs!

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 29 Jan 2016

# Error No. 114) Regarding Conf. Aged drama and 5000 year drama:-

1)PBKs quote the Murli point (more than necessary) to prove their claims- "Whatever happens in 5000 years is in accordance with the Conf. Aged period"- and call it as "SHOOTING" in their terminology.
But, Mr Dixit was out of Yagya for nearly 27 or 33 yrs (1942 to 1969 or 1976). Even their Kamala Devi was out of Yagya TWICE. And, sister Vedanti is yet to become mouth born PBK. Now, from PBK view , these souls are likely to loose so much time in broad drama, is it not?

[From BK view or Murli points, it makes no difference, as either subtle roles or corporeal roles, both are OK].

Flaw No. 115)Mr Dixit falling on to his own trap by creating more Brahmas:-

Mr. Dixit had to give title Brahma at least to three personalities- Lekhraj Kirpalani(obviously), himself and Kamala Devi to cook up his theory. So, three are a must. But, three would not look good, as it has no yaadgaars. And, the Murli point says- "Kayi females kaa naam bhee Brahma hai = There are some females whose name is Brahma". - This is said to lowkik people as put here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... rahm#p4097.
Now, using yaadgaar of 4 to 5 heads to Brahma(actually, it is simple to understand that Brahma has knowledge or visits of all the five ages), Mr Dixit thought to name Brahma to 2 more extra. But, since the Murli point says- about females, he selected Mama, and sister Vedanti. But, he never thought it would create imbalance in male and female personalities, as already put here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=50394&hilit ... nce#p50394

Now, to the point- Regarding the Murli point - "There are two unlimited fathers, and two unlimited mothers". PBKs, believe the unlimited mothers are B Baba(Lekhraj Kirpalani) and Kamala Devi. How they are, still they cannot explain that. And, now what about other three Brahmas? Are they limited or unlimited?
If they believe unlimited, it goes against Murli point as it says- only TWO. If they believe they are limited mothers, again it becomes illogical. Limited can be many more, why only three? In this way, Mr Dixit is falling into his own trap.


BK view:- The unlimited mothers are- B Baba and Mama. Very simple concept to understand, as already said. It is these two personalities to whom title creator is given by ShivBaba.
Post No. 23- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 4075#p4075 Even B baba used to call Om Radhe(Mama as Mama(mother), even if she is daughter.
Also- Post No. 08, mu point No- 22- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 4056#p4056

Flaw No. 116) PBK Concept of SHIVLING fails once again:-

Since PBKs believe subtle Brahma is the one who plays female role in the body of Mr Dixit in the Ardh_Naareeshwar, then their whole ling concept fails. Because then Shivling itself would then represent (IN PBK VIEW) half Dixit, half Lekhraj Kirpalani. Now, point on ShivLing would mean Shiv entering into(or within) Ardh_Naareeshewar. So, Shivling means three souls in body.
Now, PBKs believe Jalaadhaari in the Shivling is Parvati/Devanti. How come four souls together? Also, by default itself, sister Vedanti fails to get that seat as she had not still become a PBK.

Anyhow, let PBKs have their own belief, which is also perfectly right as per drama.
---------
A Suggestion to arjun soul:- Please read the matter/query properly and understand them in right context. You have to prove PBK view, is it not? So, think of the query in PBK view. Also understand what it will inadvertently mean when you give some statements. And, if you wish to prove Bk views are false, then you need to see BK view too, is it not? Of course, everything on the logic/basis of Murli points and Bhakti yaadgaars.* But, if you sure you know what you write, then you may ignore this.

*- If some claims of PBKs go OPENLY AGAINST Murlis POINTS, STILL PBKs wish to argue it on the basis on directions from Mr Dixit, you may better clearly say- "EVEN THOUGH THESE DO NOT TALLY WITH Sakar OR Avyakt Murlis, THEY ARE AS PER DECLARATIONS OF BABA VIDRENDRA DEV DIXIT"

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 29 Jan 2016

Then what is the point in PBKs criticizing B Baba has temple of only at Ajmer? [He is praised as Krishna as well as Narayan, Vishnu etc].

Also- There are temples of Jagadamba(a purushaarthi form], why not Prajapita? [Baba has said in Murlis, already mentioned.] I am just highlighting the inability of PBKs to understand simplest of simple logics. You may write whatever you like.
ShivBaba has said that the memorials are of the Confluence Age and where there is memorial of God in the name of Ram, or Krishna, these all refer to God, the Supreme Soul, the soul of Shiv. Worship of Krishna is not of the soul of Brahma Baba. When there is worship of Brahma, even then it is worship of the work of the supreme souls through Brahma.

ShivBaba has also said that I sustain the world through the dual form of Vishnu. It is again a matter of the Confluence Age, the Confluence Age Lakshmi and Narayan.

Jagadamba is worhiped, because she is there in the Trimurti and she is there along with Shankar who is called Vishvanath, that is the same as Prajapita.
Moreover, PBKs once again INADVERTENTLY believe "Shiv enters in SUBTLE Brahma". Because PBKs believe in Ardh_naareeshwar, female role is played by subtle Lekhraj Kirpalani. So, it is as good as ShivBaba entering into subtle Brahma too when he enters into body of Dixit.
When Brahma Baba enters in a soul with a seed form stage he also assumes seed form stage, his subtle body merges.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 29 Jan 2016

# Flaw No. 117)More and more misconceptions due to false assumptions:-

1)Mr Dixit has killed the root of the intellects of PBKs, which is clearly visible here.
sita wrote:2)ShivBaba has said that the memorials are of the Confluence Age and where there is memorial of God in the name of Ram, or Krishna, these all refer to God, the Supreme Soul, the soul of Shiv. Worship of Krishna is not of the soul of Brahma Baba. When there is worship of Brahma, even then it is worship of the work of the supreme souls through Brahma.
It is not that ALL the memorials/yaadgars are of Conf. Age. Baba has clearly said- Pure things are worshipped. Are not deities pure? So, pure things- devtaa, kshatriy. Usually Baba says- deities become worship worthy(poojan yogy), and braahmins become gyaan yogy (praise worthy). In fact, braahmin life do not become worship worthy. So, PBK concept goes totally wrong. [Of course, very few cases are there where Prajapita/Brahma/Braahmins are worshipped],

3)Baba even says- even chandika devi is worshiped.

SM 2-8-83(3):- Ab Bangaal (= Bengal) may Kali ka mandir hai. Kali Maa Maa kah praan dete hain. Ab aisee Kali Maa aati kahaan se? Vaa chandikaa devi, naam toh dekho kaisaa hai. JO BHAAGANTI HOTEY, VE TOH PRAJA MAY CHANDAAL BANTHAY HAIN. PARANTU JO YAHAAN RAHKAR VIKARM AADI KARTHAY, VAH ROYAL GHARAANEY MAY CHANDAAL BANTEY HAIN. Phir bhee pichaadi may unko taaj, patloon mil jaati hai. Kyonki yahaan godh toh lete hain na. Isliye chandikaa devi ki poojaa hoti hai. Gyaan toh bahut guhy hai, parantu koyi dhaaranaa karen. Jaise barrister koyi laakh kamaate hain, koyi kaa coat phataa rahtaa hai. Yah padhaayi hai behad ki. -104- [Ajaamil- Chandaal]

= ....Those who leave gyaan/Yagya become chandaal (the ones who serve at graveyard) of/in the citizens. But, those who do crimes being in Yagya, become chandaal in royal family. Even then, during the later stage(births), they get throne, etc. Because they have taken the lap here, is it not? That is why even Chandika devi is worshiped…...

Is role of Chandika devi is also played by ShivBaba?
3)ShivBaba has also said that I sustain the world through the dual form of Vishnu. It is again a matter of the Confluence Age, the Confluence Age Lakshmi and Narayan.
Most of the Murli points say- It is during Golden Age. First of all, there is no Conf. Aged Narayan at all. It is wrong concept PBKs. Already explained. Flaw No. 51- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50363&hilit=false#p50363

See mu Point No. 01 here-- viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2422&p=50438&hilit=raajy#p50438 . Is not Vishnu said for Golden Age?

4)Mr Dixit had murdered intellect of PBKs by inroducing false concept of Conf. Aged LN on himself, and saying all the titles fit on him, and they take name ShivBaba, as if to make even ShivBaba also just a scapegoat, and showing himself as playing role of HK hood.

5)If possible, mention- from which year to which year Mr Dixit is playing role of Prajapita, Brahma Vishnu, and Shankar, etc? Is Mr Dixit playing roles of all the three together or separately, or sometimes together and sometimes separate? And, other two personalities also.
Jagadamba is worhiped, because she is there in the Trimurti and she is there along with Shankar who is called Vishvanath, that is the same as Prajapita.
6)Please understand the question properly. The point was- When Jagadamba is worshiped in the name of JAGADAMBA ITSELF, like- Maa, Amba, Amba Maa, etc, etc , why no worship of Prajapita in the SAME NAME PRAJAPITA, or Baap, or Father, etc etc? .
When Brahma Baba enters in a soul with a seed form stage he also assumes seed form stage, his subtle body merges.
7)Do you mean every time when B baba enter Mr Dixit his subtle body merges? If yes,
Then where does the question of Bull controlling Shankar arise?
So, are PBKs willing to accept that ShivBaba can be combined at least with the soul of subtle Brahma, but not the body? If so, then what is significance in taking that Murli point and argue repetitively?
BTW- ShivBaba has clearly said- "Even BVS have subtle bodies, but I do not have even that. That is why I am the highest". So, by saying so, PBKs even inadvertently accepting that B baba is the one who is as good as equal to ShivBaba. Because Baba has said- every human soul will have name to their body only. So, then what would be name of B baba during the time when he is Dixit? NO NAME? Then B baba would be even higher than ShivBaba! A SOUL HAVING NO NAME AT ALL

-----------
Flaw No. 118)Total failure of PBK concept of Jagadamba/Jagatpita:-

Baba usually says- "Your present body is not worship worthy as it is impure". But, if we see lowkik yaadgaars, Jagadamba is worshiped with her impure/Kaliyugi Body itself, (of course, may not be like dhoom-dhaam for others like Lakshmi, etc. She is depicted in simple dress, and worship also may be in simplicity). This fits to Mama very well. Because she was a virgin and also did not commit much mistakes in her purushaarthi/braahmin life. So, got such a HIGH status.

Now, in AIVV, even though body of Mr Dixit is a virgin, there is no worship of that body as Prajapita! Is there any yaadgaar of Mr Dixit in simple form And, even if PBKs believe their Kamala Devi is real Jagadamba, if fails, because her body now has become impure from both sides (already a Kaliyugi body, and also now she had given birth to 2 children in lowkik way, and also have failed TWICE in Yagya).

Also- PBKs believe Kamala Dixit got title Jagadamba only in 1982/83. Till there, there was no Jagadamba in AIVV. (just title holder Jagadambas?)
arjun wrote:- viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1041

In the beginning of the Yagya, when PBK Kamala Devi Dixit was too young, PBK Premkanta was made instrumental, or was perhaps given a chance to look after the Yagya, but within a few years of the beginning of the Yagya, she became influenced by the seed souls within the Advance Party belonging to the other religions and left ShivBaba's company.

PBK Kamala Devi Dixit became instrumental as the Yagya Mata in 1982/83. Since then she has played the role of Yagya Mother (Jagdamba). Although to the world it appears that she has left the PBKs, but ShivBaba is firm that she is going to be revealed as Jagdamba (World Mother).

The soul which is to play the role of Vishnu (Vaishnavi Devi) (believed to be Sister BK Vedanti by most PBKs) will play the role of Yagya Mother (only for the Brahmin world) when she accepts the Advanced Knowledge.

At present a PBK Sister (hinted by ShivBaba as Sister Yogini) is taking care of the Advance Party (Yagya) as the mother of all the Suryavanshis (souls belonging to the Sun Dynasty).

Whoever may be made instrumental by ShivBaba as the Yagya Mother, our duty is to remember the Father while giving due respect to the Yagya Mother.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 30 Jan 2016

# 119)) Why Mr Dixit made/call all others all other personalities as COWARDICE, SUPERFICIAL?

First of all, the two other personalities which were used by Mr Dixit to cook up his theory were female names (Gitamata and Radha bachchi). And, after 1969 or even till 1976, no one was neither attracted to, nor supported him like Mama and the other nearly 300 to 400 children were driven to Lekhraj Kirpalani during beginning of Yagya.

Even sister Vedanti was not in AIVV. And, during 1976, Kamala Devi was just 10 years.(DOB 1966) Mostly she would not have had any knowledge of spirituality. Since Mr Dixit was staying in her house (mostly. If I am wrong, I will take my words back). Mr Dixit thought to make her as Jagadamba. It is also said that he had initially made someone Premkanta as Jagadamba- viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1041
I think that Veerendra Dev Dixit has changed the mother. Now he is waiting for Vedanti. Is it true? I have come to know that Veerendra Dev Dixit's 1st wife was Prem Kanta. After when she became handicapped, he change to a new one and Kamala Dixit became 2nd mother.
Now, when Mr Dixit might had persuaded, tempted them by wrong means to make them as Jagadamba, how can he say- they are as powerful as Prajapita? So, he made everyone as just Cowardice, Superficial, etc, to the extent that- all female roles are cowardice.
Moreover, he might had thought that , there is no guarantee of them staying in AIVV as he clearly knows that he is a fraud. So, better give them lower seats, so that he can still maintain the other followers by keeping them in false temptation, that they can become in top 8 souls.

But, the whole concept of PBKs itself goes wrong. It is total illogical, imbalance from every point of fiews, either logical, or from yaadgaars, or from Murli points.

BTW- a very simple thing to be understood is- How can souls which are at higher seat take sustenance from those who are lower seats who are given titles- Cowardice? that too for such a long period? [It is OK is some get message from others, and go ahead of them, as baba says- last so fast, and fast so first]. But, how can cowardice souls get place in trimurtis or Jagadamba?

Dear most beloved and almighty baba, let us hope their intellect opens. You know that these all are right as per drama, and are preordained.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 30 Jan 2016

3)Baba even says- even chandika devi is worshiped.
For the devis, ShivBaba has said that there is only one devi, but she plays part through many.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 30 Jan 2016

6)Please understand the question properly. The point was- When Jagadamba is worshiped in the name of JAGADAMBA ITSELF, like- Maa, Amba, Amba Maa, etc, etc , why no worship of Prajapita in the SAME NAME PRAJAPITA, or Baap, or Father, etc etc? .
ShivBaba has said that worshipper of devis are Ravan community. Now it is the kingdom of Ravan, so everywhere you see "Jay mata di", but not "Jay Pita di", but in India married woman are respected and not widows. So there must be a Father behind that mother, but if someone will have impure intention he will like to worship single devi. But mother and Father are worshipped together as Shankar and Parvati too.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 30 Jan 2016

4)Mr Dixit had murdered intellect of PBKs by introducing false concept of Conf. Aged LN on himself, and saying all the titles fit on him, and they take name ShivBaba, as if to make even ShivBaba also just a scapegoat, and showing himself as playing role of HK hood.
There are many Lakshmi and Narayan. The concept about Lakshmi and Narayan in the Confluence Age is not wrong. ShivBaba has given us the aim to transform in this life itself. But if we don't achieve our aim in this life it means we are not Gods helper. His aim is to transform hell into heaven and he gives the inheritance of heaven in hell itself. Lakshmi and Narayan are said to be intelligent, intelligent are the souls in the Confluence Age. Lakshmi and Narayan are also said to be fools. In the Golden Age there are fools.

In the Confluence Age, God is there in practical form and the impossible becomes possible, it is the time of upliftment. Why would it not be possible with the help of God to transform in this life from a human being into a deity. It did not take God long to transform humans into deities. If it is not about this life the whole study makes no sense.

It is said that if we leave the body in hell, we will take rebirth in hell, if we leave the body in heaven we will take rebirth in heaven. This is hell now, if we leave the body, if heaven is not established whilst we are in our bodies, we will take rebirth in hell.

This heaven who is witnessed by the souls of all religions is possible only in the Confluence Age. There is no history or memorial of the Golden Age where it is the age of degradation. The greatest age is the Confluence Age, where we have greatest achievement through the knowledge and Yoga power. Through Yoga power we become masters of the world, Yoga power is there in the Confluence Age, and Lakshmi and Narayan are the masters of the world. That's why it is said that the greatest position is that of Vishnu.

ShivBaba has also given our aim in the Murli that we go ahead of these Mama and Baba.

Shyam Sundar also refers to the Confluence Age. It is not that he is Shyam in the Kaliyug and Sundar in the Satyug. It is about a single personality who becomes from Shyam to Sundar in one body and in one life.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 30 Jan 2016

sita wrote:ShivBaba has said that worshipper of devis are Ravan community.
Who is not from Ravan community? Baba says- the whole of bhaktmala is of Ravan mala. Everyone, even we all had been from Ravan community itself, are not we? Baba even says- bhaktmala is of mala of Ravan. - See mu point No. 19 here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... tml#p12348
ShivBaba has also given our aim in the Murli that we go ahead of these Mama and Baba.
All these are discussed- Post No. 12, 13, 14 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 7&start=10

If you have time, you may read. Even other things are also discussed.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by arjun » 30 Jan 2016

mbbhat wrote:Again hopeless response. What I mentioned was, when PBKs believe soul of B Baba is the female part in Shankar, then PBKs are INADVERTENTLY GIVING EQUAL POSITION to Lekhraj Kirpalani in the seat of Shankar/Ardh_Naareeshwar.
How can both be equal when one is in subtle body and one is in corporeal body?
Moreover, PBKs once again INADVERTENTLY believe "Shiv enters in SUBTLE Brahma". Because PBKs believe in Ardh_naareeshwar, female role is played by subtle Lekhraj Kirpalani. So, it is as good as ShivBaba entering into subtle Brahma too when he enters into body of Dixit.

When Brahma Baba's soul is in Shankar's body, it is in a seed-form stage and hence without subtle body. So, your arguement does not hold good. The above Murli point is shown to BKs because they say that Shiv comes from Soul World and enters first in the subtle body of Brahma and then both enter Gulzar Dadi. But in case of Shankar it is not so.
You said Mr Dixit was in remembrance with ShivBaba and subtle Brahma by 23rd Jan 1969 itself. So, my question why not consider (in PBK VIEW) that year itself as revelation? Was not Mr Dixit in corporeal in 1969 itself?
I never said so. You have twisted my words as well as my intent and this is what your advocate like mind keeps on doing and complicating things. I said Shiv remembered corporeal Ram (Virendra Dev Dixit) and you say Ram remembered Shiv before Nov, 1969. So, your question itself is meaningless.
5)PBKs believe Mr Dixit was fit to title Conf. Aged Narayan, Conf. Aged Krishna from 1976 itself. Was that final form or purushaarthi form? If you like, you may state from which year to which year (give break ups), Mr Dixit plays role of Prajapita, Conf. Aged Krishna, Conf. Aged Ram, Conf. Aged Narayan, Shankar, etc.
He developed the faith that he will become Copper Age Narayan, but he did not actually become. When he is accepted and revealed in the world then you can say that he has become.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 31 Jan 2016

# Flaw No. 120) PBKs caught in CLUTCH OF THEIR OWN ENDLESS CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS:-
arjun wrote:How can both be equal when one is in subtle body and one is in corporeal body?
1)Why not? PBKs may give more value to corporeal than subtle or incorporeal. But, Baba clearly says- Incorporeal is highest, next subtle deities, next corporeal humans.
2)BTW, who is higher or more powerful among these- (from PBk point of view) just SS point Shiv or living soul of Mr Dixit =(soul and body of Mr Dixit)?
When Brahma Baba's soul is in Shankar's body, it is in a seed-form stage and hence without subtle body. So, your argument does not hold good.
3)As already said before, the rider/s should be more powerful than the Chariot], OBVIOUSLY, IS IT NOT?. So, how can subtle body of B baba merge when sublte Brahma(rider) is more powerful than Mr Dixit/Chariot?

4)Another point is- if PBKs believe subtle body of Brahma merges when he enters Mr Dixit, then is is as good as Brahma baba acting as just a POINT, just like SS SHIV HIMSELF, on the body of Dixit, you are (unknowingly) giving even higher status (equal to ShivBaba) to Brahma Baba. [Also- refer to point No. 7 in Flaw No. 117]

all these show that PBKs are caught in their own endless contradictory statements.
The above Murli point is shown to BKs because they say that Shiv comes from Soul World and enters first in the subtle body of Brahma and then both enter Gulzar Dadi. But in case of Shankar it is not so.
5)Very loose argument, as already stated clearly. - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2009&p=50364&hilit= ... LAA#p50364 , http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... orn#p12446 and at many more places.

You are writing lies. It is already said in the previous post itself that- BKs do not believe Shiv first enters in subtle body and then into body of Gulzar. You ONLY ASSUME SO BY YOUR OWN MISUNDERSTANDING OR PERHAPS BY DELIBERATE ATTEMPT OR IGNORANCE. BKs believe MOST OF THE TIME, BOTH ARE ALWAYS in COMBINED FORM IN Subtle Region AFTER 1969. And even the Avyakt Murli point says so, [you may try to (mis)interpret Baap to anything, but it does not fit.]. So, Shiv entering into subtle body, and leaving,again entering and leaving, - this question does not arise there. And- moreover- baba has also said- Old Points will not come into use. So, think before taking just isolated Murli points.
I never said so. You have twisted my words as well as my intent and this is what your advocate like mind keeps on doing and complicating things. I said Shiv remembered corporeal Ram (Veerendra Dev Dixit) and you say Ram remembered Shiv before Nov, 1969. So, your question itself is meaningless.
6)OK, l will take these words, now. But, again it goes out of logic, as it would be just ONE WAY. It says- "WE TWO". Moreover, it says- jaisay pahley thay, vaise hain= We are together, as had been before. many times, you take only half of the Murli point and reply. Read the whole sentence
To which EARLIER period it was said in Murli? I had put clear questions, you even did not try to reply. Left to you whether to reply or not.

# Flaw No. 121)Twisting Nature of PBKs:-
He developed the faith that he will become Copper Age Narayan, but he did not actually become. When he is accepted and revealed in the world then you can say that he has become.
7)So, then why do PBKs call him as Conf Aged Narayan by now it self? So, are you saying he will become Conf. Aged Narayan in 2018 (am I right?) But, the Murli point says- birth of LN itself in 1976. Also- discussed here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2611&p=49613&hilit=1966#p49613

8)BTW, what faith did Sevakram develop about his position in the time cycle?

9)Moreover, to WHOM it was revealed in 1976? Revelation means, there should be at least few, is it not? [In case of Om mandli, by the beginning itself everything had come in newspapers, so even to outside world, a message was already given].

10)You had criticized me when I had written Kamala Devi had entered into AIVV in 1983. Was not that an act of advocate by you? - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50699&hilit=1983#p50699 My intention/point was right there. Even the PBK who gave me the knowledge, had stressed the year 1983 for Kamala Devi. Now, if ever she had come to gyaan in 1976 itself, it has lesser significance, as you yourself believe she became Jagadamba only in 1983. as put in flaw no. 118.

11)More twisting of PBKs:- If you believe Mr Dixit has not become Conf. Aged Narayan now, and is going to become only later, then better PBKs mention the following.

Is Mr Dixit already Conf. Aged Ram now or going to play later? If you know, mention more.

Is Mr Dixit already Conf. Aged Shankar now or going to play later?

Is Mr Dixit already Conf. Aged Krishna now or going to play later?

And- regarding Prajapita as well.

If PBKs cannot mention these, still use these titles for Mr Dixit, and once says- he has not yet become, you can believe it later, and cannot mention the contrast between the roles Prajapita, Ram, Narayan, Krishna and Shankar properly, but use these titles extensively, are they not twisting?

But, again it is your free will to act as you like. Baba and drama.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 31 Jan 2016

Flaw No. 122) Few More examples how PBKs get caught into their own clutches/traps:-
sita wrote:ShivBaba has said that worshipper of devis are Ravan community. Now it is the kingdom of Ravan, so everywhere you see "Jay mata di", but not "Jay Pita di", but in India married woman are respected and not widows. So there must be a Father behind that mother, but if someone will have impure intention he will like to worship single devi. But mother and Father are worshipped together as Shankar and Parvati too.
1)I do not know to whom sita soul assumed to be widow here. I had said to Mama. She is a virgin, and virgins are respected in India.

2)BTW, let us take cases of Mr Dixit and Kamala Devi. Some members in the forum say- Mr Dixit has kept on changing his Jagadambas. And, in his own words- there are four/five Brahmas, but only one Prajapita (as if it looks one husband/Father and 4 to 5 wives/mothers). Moreover, kamala Devi went out of Yagya, married someone else. Even if she returns, in a country like India, how much respect she would have?

3)Again- PBKs themselves believe Mr Dixit/Sevakram left mother/Yagya, lost faith in his own Yagya or mother of Yagya, and was out of Yagya for 27/33 years, and then returned. How much respect to such people in ANY COUNTRY it would be?

4)PBKs believe Sister Vedanti and Dixit are couple(L and N). PBKs believe she is Conf. Aged Lakshmi, or parvati, jalaadhaari in Shivling. But, she is physically very far from him, yet to recognize him. How much respect would there be to such a couple in country like India or any other?

5)PBKs believe a Male plays role of Mother:- PBKs believe Lekhraj Kirpalani plays role of Mother. How much respect would be there in country like India?

[That is why baba clearly says- since Brahma is male, there is need of another mother in PRACTICAL. The title MOTHER goes to the best child Mama. The mother in lowkik world whom is praised as Jagadamba is a female- Very clear, and very logical points].

6)Further "Bull controlling Shankar, Shankar controlling Bull", etc, etc- what percentage of people in India will respect? Gud jaaney- gud ki gothri jaaney!


# Flaw No. 123) PBK concept of Shivling fails ONCE AGAIN:-

PBKs believe the female part(Ardh_Naareeshwar) in Shankar is played by Lekhraj Kirpalani. In such case, half of Shivling would represent Dixit, and the other half as Lekhraj Kirpalani(IN PBK VIEW). So, Shivling itself would represent two human personalities (as per their view). Then again both of them get equal position.
If they say- Lekhraj Kirpalani has only subtle body, that too merges, etc, etc) it will be difficult for them to explain how ling/Shankar represents Ardh_Naareeshwar from their concept of Shivling. And- as explained well, Lekhraj Kirpalani will actually have higher place than Mr Dixit, by the very default case- as the rider would be always higher than the Chariot.

And- further, PBKs believe the jalaadhaari on which Shiv ling rests in Vedanti. So, who is close to Mr Dixit? Vedanti or Lekhraj Kirpalani? And- what about relation between Dixit and Kamala Devi? She has no place in Shivling at all- being Yagya Matha (most senior Yagya mother)?

Let Mr Dixit or PBKs do any amount of juggling exercises, it will become even more confusions and contradictions. But, let them have it, as drama has given them that role, so no mistake from them.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 31 Jan 2016

BKs believe MOST OF THE TIME, BOTH ARE ALWAYS in COMBINED FORM IN Subtle Region AFTER 1969. And even the Avyakt Murli point says so, [you may try to (mis)interpret Baap to anything, but it does not fit.]. So, Shiv entering into subtle body, and leaving,again entering and leaving, - this question does not arise there. And- moreover- Baba has also said- Old Points will not come into use. So, think before taking just isolated Murli points.
I did not know this is the belief of the BKs. If it is so, it means they have neglected the Murli. But I doubt this is the belief of the BKs.
1)I do not know to whom sita soul assumed to be widow here.
I mean they say "hail to the mother", but why do they not mention the Father, does she has a husband or not.
5)PBKs believe a Male plays role of Mother:- PBKs believe Lekhraj Kirpalani plays role of Mother.
No, ShivBaba has said that Brahma Baba is in fact Jagadamba.

In the Shivling, the female part is Parvati. In the Murli, ShivBaba has said that we are all Parvatis, even the soul of Ram is number one Parvati.

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