Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 08 Apr 2016

# Flaw No. 221) The so-called "Conf Aged deities":-

Just consider more of PBK philosophy. What do PBKs say- (in Conf Age)
Is it "Krishna" or (just) "soul of Krishna"?
Is it "Ram" or (just) "soul of Ram"?
Is it "Narayan" or (just) "soul of Narayan"?


Twisting of Murli points by PBKs is already seen above. Just to know what do they finally say or really mean.
sita wrote:a)When it is said Krishna, it means the soul of Krishna, Brahma Baba, Dada Lekhraj, that particular person. When it is said Krishna in 36 or 69, or any age, it does not mean he is Krishna at that time. No, he becomes Krishna in the Golden Age, but the soul is the same. When it is said Krishna, it refers to the same personality - call it the soul of Krishna, Brahma Baba or Dada.

b)Confluence Aged deities

c)According to the Murli, Lakshmi and Narayan took birth in 1976.
1)What are PBKs saying NOW? Does B baba become eligible to get title Krishna only in G Age? (in PBK view), now he is just soul of Krishna?
2)Similarly, Mr Dixit also cannot have title Ram in Conf. Age? Is he eligible to get title Ram only in Silver Age?
3)Similarly, Mr Dixit cannot have title Narayan in Conf. Age? Is he eligible to get title Narayan only in G Age?
--But. PBKs say- Conf Aged Narayan.

4)Or do PBKs believe the title "Conf Aged deities" is applicable JUST to PBK souls, not to BKs?

4a)If yes, even then PBKs inadvertently imply God enters in Krishna, because PBKs believe Mr Dixit is Conf Aged Krishna since 1976.

4b)If no, PBKs lose the claim to give all the titles like Conf Aged Krishna/Narayan, etc., to Mr Dixit.

5)If PBKs believe Mr Dixit gets title Conf Aged deities- and hence he can have title Ram, Vishnu, Shankar, (not just soul of Ram, soul of Vishnu, soul of Shankar), then why there are no words- Ramkumar/i, Vishnukumar/i, Shankar Kumar/i, etc?

6)Moreover, can IMPURE personalities (Mr Dixit was impure in 1976, as well as even at present, not complete) have names of deities- Krishna, Narayan, Vishnu, etc?

7)Baba usually says- "Neither I enter in Krishna, nor Krishna can give Knowledge, Krishna is a small child. Krishna is the creation, and cannot be called the Creator. Krishna is a Child, and CANNOT be the Father of entire creation. The Father of entire creation is ONLY ONE Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God - and CANNOT BE ANY BODILY BEING - like Krishna, or Narayan or Ram, etc. The bodily father of Krishna can ONLY be the father of Krishna, and NOT the Father of entire creation. The bodily father of Krishna is a LIMITED, CORPOREAL creator, who is NOT as CLEVER as Krishna, and therefore the status of the bodily father of Krishna is LESS than that of Krishna, and the bodily father of Krishna is not well known. WHILE the spiritual Father of Krishna is the UNLIMITED, INCORPOREAL CREATOR of ENTIRE HUMANITY, including Krishna, and Krishna becomes the CLEVEREST of ALL among the ENTIRE embodied human race, and projects his cleverness through his soul-mate, Radha, while he remains as the 'back-bone', BOTH in G Age AS WELL AS in the Conf Age".
To WHOM THIS REFERS TO? (in PBK view). To SOUL of Krishna when he plays the role AS B baba in Conf Age, OR to the SAME SOUL of Krishna when he plays the role AS the FIRST prince of G Age? How and why (= Why Baba says so)?

BK view is simple:- In lowkik people believe Krishna gave knowledge of Gita. But, Baba says- "neither I enter in Krishna, nor can I give any Knowledge through Krishna (as Krishna is in G Age, and NOT in the Conf Age), and he is a small child".

But, PBKs usually say- "all the Murli points are applicable to Conf Age, to the BK-PBK world" (ONLY to twist them). Let us see how do they explain here.
--Because in BK world, no one believes God enters in G Age Krishna. So- to whom (in BK or PBK world) is ShivBaba referring to - Brahma Baba of Conf Age OR Shri Krishna of G A (being ONE and the SAME soul)?
--Or most probably, PBKs may have to STEP DOWN and agree that- this Murli point was said to lowkik world.
---But, then their VERY BASIC FOUNDATION SHAKES IF THEY AGREE. Because if they believe "such Murli points are said for lowkik world", they LOSE their arguments in most of the places, as all of their arguments are based on the illusion that- "all the Murlis points refer to Conf Age period, and personalities, (in unlimited sense), which only, will then get reflected in the broad drama".

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 08 Apr 2016

Name is given when the work, the task that corresponds to that name is performed. But name is still also given by birth. Lakshmi and Narayan took birth in 76, it does not mean that they have become pure or complete in 76. Brahma Baba comes to know he is to become Krishna in the Golden Age, at the time he gets to know it, he has not become that at that time. It is like a seed that is planted, but it takes time to realize.

The birth of Lakshmi and Narayan in 76 refers to the meaning of the name. Narayan means to live in the knowledge. To have your house in the knowledge. If this is there then the meaning of the name is realized.

Krishna means the one who attracts, if he attracts, you can even give him this title in the Confluence Age, because he performs this act, but he will officially carry that title Krishna in the Golden Age.

Ram is also an act and an official name. If yogis live, become Manmanabhav in some personality, if it gives them rest, it is like Ram. If he shoots arrows of knowledge, if he speaks sharp knowledge, if he speaks one thing, if he is strict - he is Ram. If he speaks sweet Vani, if he is full of love and tolerance, it is the melody of the flute.

= RESPONSE =

"Name is given when the work, the task that corresponds to that name is performed. But name is still also given by birth".

CORRECT. For the Righteous Children same applies to the MAIN, instrumental PARENT souls of ENTIRE HUMANITY, Mama & Baba, i.e. Saraswati & Brahma or Om Radhe & DLR.

"Lakshmi and Narayan took birth in 76."

CORRECT. For the Righteous Children same applies to the MAIN, instrumental PARENT souls of ENTIRE HUMANITY, Mama & Baba, i.e. Saraswati & Brahma or Om Radhe & DLR, who perform the work corresponding to their names, in the form of Vishnu, through their SUBTLE FORMS, after getting FULL & COMPLETE REAL-EYEzation, TOGETHER, in 1976.
This means they DO BECOME pure or COMPLETE in 1976, as subtle DEITIES, and carry out their PRACTICAL FUNCTIONS on this CORPOREAL SPHERE, along with Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God, using the instrumental corporeal bodies of ELEVATED Brahmin souls.

"Brahma Baba comes to know he is to become Krishna in the Golden Age, at the time he gets to know it, he has not become that at that time. It is like a seed that is planted, but it takes time to realize."

CORRECT. Brahma Baba, ALONG WITH Saraswati Mama, TOGETHER, FULLY & COMPLETELY, REAL-EYEs this in 1976.

"The birth of Lakshmi and Narayan in 76 refers to the meaning of the name. Narayan means to live in the knowledge. To have your house in the knowledge. If this is there then the meaning of the name is realized."

CORRECT. Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama take spiritual birth as Lakshmi & Narayan in 1976 after FULL & COMPLETE REAL-EYEzation of their corresponding roles in Golden Age, TOGETHER. They become COMPLETELY COMBINED with Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God to become the REAL, ORIGINAL, ETERNAL Trimurti of the Cycle. Hence they TRULY LIVE in the Ocean of Knowledge, since their TRUE HOME is within the HEART THRONE of the Ocean of Knowledge, thus REAL-EYEzing the TRUE significance of their TRUE Spiritual designations, as IMMORTAL, ETERNAL & IMPERISHABLE Lakshmi & Narayan.

"Krishna means the one who attracts, if he attracts, you can even give him this title in the Confluence Age, because he performs this act, but he will officially carry that title Krishna in the Golden Age."

CORRECT. But it is NOT the soul of Krishna of G A, or Brahma Baba, who attracts, but the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God who is within the LAST 84th corporeal body of the soul of Krishna of G A, in the body of Brahma Baba, who ACTUALLY ATTRACTS. Body-conscious souls who DELUSIVELY THINK or BELIEVE that it is the soul of Krishna of G A, or Brahma Baba, who attracts, are performing the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya or 'Bhaktimarg', where Shri Krishna is WRONGLY considered to be the Sermonizer of the True Gita.

"Ram is also an act and an official name. If yogis live, become Manmanabhav in some personality, if it gives them rest, it is like Ram. If he shoots arrows of knowledge, if he speaks sharp knowledge, if he speaks one thing, if he is strict - he is Ram. If he speaks sweet Vani, if he is full of love and tolerance, it is the melody of the flute".

CORRECT. ALL ABOVE FUNCTIONS are ACTUALLY PERFORMED by REAL Ram, who is Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God, through His 'mukrar-rath' of REAL Prajapita Brahma, BB or soul of DLR, who is the SAME as the soul of first prince of G A, Shri Krishna.

HOWEVER, Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as APPARENT 'ShivBaba' and APPARENT 'Ram', through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit, MASQUERADING as APPARENT 'Prajapita Brahma', APPARENT 'Shankar', etc., HIJACKS ALL ABOVE CONCEPTS, to imply that same apply to himself, by propagating the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED REVERSED advanced knowledge, being the MISINTERPRETATIONS & MISREPRESENTATIONS of the Pure Versions in the SMs and AVs, (originally spoken by REAL ShivBaba or God, through His 'mukrar-rath' of REAL Prajapita Brahma, BB or soul of DLR), to be in consonance with the DISTORTED & PERVERTED CONCEPTS of 'Tamopradhan Bhakti' or DEGRADED DEVOTION, to be instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap and Ravan Rajya, in Confluence Age.

sita
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 08 Apr 2016

CORRECT. But it is NOT the soul of Krishna of G A, or Brahma Baba, who attracts, but the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God who is within the LAST 84th corporeal body of the soul of Krishna of G A, in the body of Brahma Baba, who ACTUALLY ATTRACTS.
Yes, indeed.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 08 Apr 2016

# Flaw No. 222) A clear evidence- PBKs consider only the 'tail', to pass their judgments:-

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51272#p51272
sita wrote:Name is given when the work, the task that corresponds to that name is performed. But name is still also given by birth. Lakshmi and Narayan took birth in 76, it does not mean that they have become pure or complete in 76....
1)It seems that PBKs have no objection to give title based on just ONE qualification, no need to have all the qualifications. So, even effort-maker souls of Conf Age can be called as deities, as per PBK view.

But, it goes against logic. Even when deities are shown with disc, mace, etc, in their yaadgaars, Baba clearly says- "IT IS NOT CORRECT. Actually, they belong to braahmins, but since brahmins fluctuate, (and deities have already attained the highest level), they are shown to deities".

2)Now, "in their view", why not call every person as Brahma? Because ONE qualification for the title Brahma means, MOTHER. So, why limit Brahma just to 4 or 5 personalities? Baba has given title mother to all the children (at least all the female ones).
[Of course, Baba sometimes calls all lowkik fathers as "hadh ke Brahma (limited Brahmas)" just to explain something]. But, can we give them title Brahma officially?

3) Moreover, PBKs have no objection to give title Brahma to sister Vedanti, Kamala Devi, etc,- even when NO (independent KNOWLEDGE) comes through their mouth.

PBKs had already given the seat of Yagya mother to Premkanta (before KDD), and after 1998, mostly to some other sister as well. So, why not give name Brahma at least to these two?
The birth of Lakshmi and Narayan in 76 refers to the meaning of the name. Narayan means to live in The Knowledge. To have your house in The Knowledge. If this is there then the meaning of the name is realized.
4)This title fits even to God. God lives in knowledge only and nothing else. So, why not call God to be Narayan? Of course, Baba has used the title Allah also to human souls, and even Prajapita/Jagatpita on himself in some context,- refer Post No. 62, 68 and 69 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 7&start=80

But, that does not give license to call human souls as Allah, or ShivBaba or Prajapita. Because most of the times, Allah fits only for God, and Prajapita for (number one) human soul.

BTW- if you believe Mr Dixit lives in Knowledge, it is an error also. His countless failures are clearly visible on the forum. He could not understand simplest typing errors in the Murli points and never hesitated to take opposite meanings. [It is said- Kans always used to think about Krishna - but in opposite way. Similarly, Mr. Dixit's way of living in knowledge is also INVERTED way].
Krishna means the one who attracts, if he attracts, you can even give him this title in the Confluence Age
5)Even in lowkik, some attract even crores of people. Eg- politicians, film stars and Gurus. Why not give them title Krishna? Why limit title Krishna only to Conf Age? Why not use it for lowkik people, when they are able to attract?
Krishna means the one who attracts, if he attracts, you can even give him this title in the Confluence Age, because he performs this act, but he will officially carry that title Krishna in the Golden Age.
6)Why officially it should be only in G Age? [See, here you have inadvertently spoken the truth. It proves none other than G Age personality can have title Krishna One cannot use those titles NOW and THEN for any impure personalities.]

But, PBKs officially use the title Krishna to B baba in Conf Age itself (ONLY to use/twist the Murlis points in their favor)? Do not PBKs give title Narayan, Ram, etc officially to Mr Dixit in Conf Age itself?
Ram is also an act and an official name. If yogis live, become Manmanabhav in some personality, if it gives them rest, it is like Ram.
7)To how many Mr Dixit has given rest? His own so-called 'Jagadamba', KDD, HAS LEFT, and given in WRITING, that she has NOTHING TO DO with -Virendra Dev Dixit or AIVV; he even slapped a sister during Amrit Vela. Other splinter groups, who were associated with him earlier, have come up, after him. Mr Dixit himself is not at rest. PBKs believe moon/bull rides on him, even at present.
------------
8)Now, the result of taking just tail is visible here.

From here- viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2642&p=51270#p51270
• Jagdamba doesn’t have such a frightening form. Neither does she accept such sacrifices. Among the female deities too there’s a Vaishnodevi (a female deity), another is non-vegetarian. The person who is non-vegetarian now becomes Vaishnav (pure vegetarian) ....The inheritance of heaven is received only from Jagadamba. She fulfills the wishes of everyone. That Jagadamba is the real Vaishnavi devi. She was lustful and non-vegetarian in her previous birth. Whose temple is bigger? Is it the temple of Vaishnav Lakshmi or the temple of Vaishnavi devi? Who’s more famous? She (Jagadamba) is Gyan Gyaneshwari (Goddess of knowledge). Lakshmi cannot be called Gyan Gyaneshwari. That is why Jagadamba is famous. Her fair (i.e. the fair organized in the name of Jagadamba) only is the biggest. Lakshmi is called only on the festival of Deepavali (festival of lights). The fair organized for Jagadamba is big.
(18-3-87, pg-2, register-17 pg-76)

• Jagdamba cannot be called a deity. When Jagdamba becomes complete, she becomes a deity. (6.10.78).
Murli points say-
a)Status of Jagadamba is higher than Lakshmi, and
b)Jagadamba only will become Lakshmi.
c)Jagadamba cannot be called as deity.
d)Mu Points say Lakshmi cannot have Knowledge.

But, as per PBKs, none of them fit anywhere.
a)According to PBKs, Jagadamba (KDD) does not become Lakshmi either in Conf Age or in G Age.
b)According to PBKs, Jagadamba (KDD) is lower than Lakshmi (Lakshmi- sister Vedanti is True Gita) and Jagadamba(KD) is False Gita.
c)Mostly- according to their view- Jagadamba is a Conf Aged deity.
d)But, PBKs believe Lakshmi can have knowledge. - as they give title Lakshmi for Conf Aged personalities.

So, Mr Dixit has left nothing to survive. He defamed all the deity titles, not just Krishna. PBKs believe their 'Ram' shoots sharp arrows. TRUE, they are really arrows of spiritual suicide. For weak souls, such points of clarifications may appear as sharp - and THEY are INDEED SHARP, since it 'KILLS' the PBKs from the Re-Cognition or REAL-EYEzation of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, and COMPLETELY DIVORCES them from God, by TREACHEROUSLY TRICKING them into DELUSIVELY BELIEVING that the 'Ishwariya Rup' or Godly Form of Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as APPARENT 'ShivBaba' or APPARENT 'Ram', is God!!!
And- definitely, they are sharp as they are destructive. Like alcohol or drugs are equally sharp, but in a negative way.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 09 Apr 2016

You can call it brahmins to deities, or confluence aged deities, it is their praise in the scriptures. The scriptures talk about God, about the time when God is there.

Certainly you could give the title Narayan to many souls. Firstly there are many souls who become Narayan in the Golden Age , but also there are many souls who become like Narayan. Our aim is to become deities. Some become 100 percent, some less. Shiva is the source of the knowledge, the form of knowledge, he is the house itself and the ones who live in the house are the children who become from man to Narayan. There are two types of knowledge. One is the knowledge of the soul that is there like natural sanskar of being soul-consious in the Golden Age. Deities there also live in the knowledge, in the essence of the knowledge. And there is the Godly knowledge that is there with the Brahmins in the Confluence Age.

The titles of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar is also given to children, when they do these acts. Mothers are called to develop the attitude of Jagadamba, It is because it is said that whatever the main ones do - the rest follow. We are all sitas, parvatis, draupadis, there are many Arjun and Hanuman. We follow the main ones.

Yes, Brahma is not a deity, Jagadamba is not a deity. On the pah of devotion they consider Brahma to be like God and so Sarasvati is like godess. On the path of knowledge brahma is one of the 3 deities, but these 3 deities are different to the deities from the Golden Age, they are deities of the Confluence Age.

Deities from the Confluence Age like Brahma and Jagadamba are shown with many arms. There are 1000 arms of Brahma and there are many helping hands of Jagadamba. But Jagadamba herself is a helping hand to Brahma, so she becomes one of his hands in the form of Vishnu. Brahma becomes Vishnu. Two souls in Vishnu are for Lakshmi. There are two helping hands. With one hand the urn of knowledge is supported, with the other- knowledge is distributed.

Lakshmi of the Golden Age is not intelligent, but when the same soul is in the Confluence Age it is knowledgeful. She can also be considered Jagadamba, because in the Golden Age the whole world is only Bharat it is from Bharat that the whole world emerges.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 09 Apr 2016

Replied only to the tail, (that too just to part of it, not full), as usual.

The above VERBIAGE is the usual CHANT of the Path of Devotion or 'Bhaktimarg' of Ravan Rajya, with NO EVIDENCE of even a TRACE of ACTUAL PRACTICAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE to corroborate same.

But, that is OK. Thanks to Baba, and thanks to you for taking the time to express your views.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 10 Apr 2016

# Flaw No. 223) BVS do not take rebirths?:-

Just adding few points:-

1)Many times, Baba says "Shankar does not take rebirths". Mr Dixit misused the Murli point and (mis)interprets this as "Faith of Mr. Dixit never fluctuates (but, faith of others get fluctuated at least to some extent)" .*

2)But, there are Murli points which say- "BVS do not take rebirths". Mostly Mr. Dixit did not see them or hides them.

SM 17-10-78(3):- PUNARJANM ShivBaba TOH NAHIN LETE. BVS KO PUNARJANM NAHIN LENAA HAI. BAAP KAHTE HAIN MAIN AATAA HI HUN PATITON KO PAAVAN BANAANEY. -21- [BVS]

= ShivBaba DOES NOT TAKE REBIRTHS. BVS DO NOT TAKE REBIRTHS. ...

What do PBKs say here?

3)Baba has also said- "BVS reside only in Subtle Region, there is no another history and geography of them"

Refer to Mu Point No. 22 - in Post No. 98b) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... phy#p12330. Reproducing here.

SM 27-3-76(1, 2):- Oonch te oonch Baap hai sab aatmaavon kaa baap. Phir hai sookshmvatan. Yah hai sthoolvatan. Sookshmvatan may sirf BVS rahte hain. UNKI DOOSRI KOYI HISTORY, GEOGRAPHY NAHIN HAIN. Yah theen(3) tabkey hain. God is one. Unki rachnaa bhi ek hai. -128-, 129

= Highest of High is the Father of all souls. Next is Subtle Region. This is corporeal world. In Subtle Region, just BVS reside. THERE IS NO ANOTHER HISTORY AND GEOGRAPHY OF THEM. These are 3 floors. God is one. His creation is also one.

Again- What do PBKs say here?

Have PBKs EVER THOUGHT why baba had said so? [Actually every soul except ShivBaba will take rebirth]. Even that is said- Post No. 169 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... hs.#p14352

So, the context should be understood. This FURTHER EXPLAINS why ShivBaba had also said - "I do not enter into subtle Brahma, subtle Brahma cannot be called as Prajapita".
[Of course, other Murli points clearly say- "I am now in complete/subtle Brahma", as well as "the same corporeal Brahma will become subtle Brahma".]

* - But, funny thing is- in their "own view" it was faith of Mr Dixit/Sevakram which was FIRST LOST in 1942, (and had taken re-birth in Ravan Rajya and had been there till at least 1969 November). And, they even believe- Bull rides on (their) Shankar and even misuses the body of Shankar.
So, when PBKs evidently agree that their 'Ram' (Sevakram, alias Virendra Dev Dixit) FAILED in 1942, how did they allow themselves to FALL into the TRAP of DELUSIVELY BELIEVING that the faith of their 'Shankar', alias Virendra Dev Dixit, is not lost, or does not fluctuate in the Conf Age???
This CLEARLY PROVES that the intellects of the PBKs are FRAGMENTED, and ONE aspect of their Mind IS CLEARLY NOT ABLE TO CORROBORATE with ANOTHER aspect of their own mind; and when confronted with this reality, they just slink away slyly by quoting some other irrelevant points, and DODGING the CORE issue - EXACTLY like HOW A SLIMY 'SNAKE' MOVES in the TALL 'GRASS' of 'Bhaktimarg' of Ravan Rajya!

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 11 Apr 2016

# Flaw No. 224)PBKs inadvertently place a GOAT LEVEL personality next to God:-
sita wrote:From here- viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1860&p=51285#p51285

Three lions are shown in [the emblem of] the Trimurti. In fact, these are a lion, a goat and a horse. So, this (the three lions) is shown in place of them in the Court of Arms. But you know that the world doesn’t exist.” (Mu.22.04.69, middle of pg.2)

Here it is said that the Trimurti are a lion a goat and a horse. I think it refers to such human souls who play part of a lion a goat and a horse. I don't think Shiva is one of them.
If interested, PBKs may put "their views"- to WHOM ALL these refer and how.

Now, it seems that PBKs more openly state that at least one of the trimurtis is FULLY COWARDICE, like a goat.

BTW- it goes against the logic- because Baba says- next to Shiv are trimurtis. Can a goat and horse be next to Shiv/God?

The CORRECT sequence should be - LION, HORSE & GOAT (not sure- how it is said in Murli)- which is the allegorical or symbolical representation of the THREE MAIN CATEGORIES of WARRIORS in a Battlefield -
'Maharathi', 'Ghodesavar' & 'Pyade' or
Elephant Riders (equivalent to LION or TOP-BRASS),
Cavalry (Horse Riders or Artillery), and
Infantry (Foot Soldiers).
Similar THREE MAIN DIVISIONS have been spoken of, by God, in the Murlis, representing the Spiritual Warriors, among the Brahmins. When ALL the THREE MAIN DIVISIONS UNITE AS ONE, in the ACCURATE & UNADULTERATED Remembrance of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, EACH ONE of them becomes LIKE A LION, (when they ACT TOGETHER as ONE SPIRITUAL FORCE or POWER) -
hence the significance of the THREE LIONS shown in the Trimurti, is in this SPECIFIC SENSE.
--------------

# Flaw No. 225)Attempt to misinterpret name "Trimurti Brahma":-

1) In olden Trimurti pictures, BKs had put the face of B Baba on all the three (BVS).
PBKs believe the cause for the name "Trimurti Brahma" in lowkik is due to this above shooting carried by BKs. Mr. Dixit's intention was to defame name of B Baba.

But, a reason for doing so, is clearly said in Murlis - Post No. 187 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ing#p15040

2) Baba has also given actual reason why the name Trimurti Brahma has come up in Bhaktimarg.

SM 3-11-87(1):- Kitnaa achchee reeti samjhaate hain. Parantu manushy sunee ansunee ultee baaton par chalte hain. Vah sab hain asuree buddhi. SUNTEY BHEE ASUREE BUDDHI SE HAIN. ISHWAR BUDDHI SE SUNEY TOH SAMSHAY SAB MIT JAAVE. Trimurti chitr dikhaaye bigar samjhaanaa mushkil hai. UNHON_NE Trimurti Brahma NAAM RAKH DIYAA HAI. KYONKI ShivBaba PPB DWAARAA NAYI DUNIYAA KI RACHNAA RACHTE HAIN. Tum bachche abhee sammukh baithay ho. -100-

= ... Without Trimurti picture, it is difficult to explain. They have kept name Trimurti BRAHMA. Because ShivBaba CREATES NEW WORLD through PRAJAPITA BRAHMA. ...

Baba says- Since ShivBaba had used the body of "Prajapita Brahma", name "Trimurti Brahma" has come up in Bhakti.
---But, Mr Dixit says something against the Murli point. Moreover, the Murli point says- "Prajapita Brahma" (NOT just Brahma). So, Mr Dixit is defaming even himself as well, is it not? [ike what he did in flaw No. 47)

Of course, Baba has said- (just) by name Trimurti Brahma, right meaning does not emerge, hence it has to be corrected.

3) SM 29-10-82(1, 2):- Trimurti Shiv ka bhi arth hai. Trimurti Brahma ka arth nahin nikaltaa. Baba correct bhi karte rahte hain. Humesha Trimurti Shiv Jayanti kahna hai. Is baari likhenge 46vi Trimurti Shiv jayanti manaa rahe hain. BRAHMA BIGAR SHIV KAISE JANM LENGE? Brahma dwara varsaa denge. ShivBaba HAI na. TOH VARSAA BHI SAATH MAY ZAROOR CHAHIYE. Toh yah Vishnu hai varsa. Brahma, phir Vishnu varsaa. Brahma vaa Vishnu vaa Shiv. Lekin Shiv toh vinaash nahin karenge. Shankar DWAARAA VINAASH GAAYAA HUVAA HAI. ISLIYE Trimurti KA CHITR HAI MUKHY. Trimurti chitr chalaa aayaa hai. Vahaan bhi tum raajy karte ho toh takht ke pichaadi Vishnu kaa chitr rahtaa hai. Yah jaise coat of arms hai. Inkaa arth manushy nahin jaantey. -66, 67- [Trimurti, coat of arms, muri cut]

= ... (Just from) name Trimurti Brahma, right meaning does not emerge/come. Baba keeps on correcting as well. Always write Trimurti Shiv jayanti. ...(Now) Without Brahma, how can Shiv take birth? Through Brahma, he will give property. So, even the property is also necessary (to be shown in Trimurti picture). So, this Vishnu is the property. Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiv. But, Shiv does not destroy. It is said (in Bhakti) that destruction through Shankar. Hence the Trimurti picture is important. Trimurti picture has been used/popular. ...

So, Baba highlights that- the picture should have full details of God, and his incarnation (Chariot Brahma), the property as well, and also better point about the destruction as well. Then it will give full meaning.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 11 Apr 2016

# Flaw No. 226) PBKs (inadvertently) destroying their own philosophy:-

From here- just before flaw No. 111 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50861#p50861
[quote=""arjun"]Real Brahma is only one - Prajapita Brahma. All others are title holders.[/quote]
1)Usually, PBKs clarify AS IF all the 4/5 personalities as REAL* Brahmas, and give reasoning- "that is why Brahma is shown with 4/5 heads".
But, here, arjun soul says- "Mr Dixit only is real Brahma**, others are just title holders". How silly, twisting and double standards!

2)OK, let us agree with them. Then WHY do PBKs place a title holder soul (Kamala Devi) in place of Brahma in their Trimurti picture?

3) May be in future- PBKs may also give statement "Real Vishnu (as well as Shankar) is just Mr Dixit, and all others are just title holders (if any)". - (whenever they wish to twist Murli points.)

4)Then it may lead them to say- "Actually, there is only ONE human personality (Mr Dixit) in REAL Trimurti, as all others are only title-holders".
Then they would be inadvertently taking a FULL U-turn, as it would imply - "THERE IS JUST ONE HUMAN MURTI/personality IN Trimurti".

*- The whole of PBK philosophy is based on the theory of 4 to 5 Brahmas. (They always quote the Murli point (WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING IN REAL SENSE) and claim- "in whomever God enters, their name would be Brahma"). Else, all of their main claims fail totally, at once.

**- Actually soul brother arjun soul said so, because he had NOTHING sensible to reply there. But, we can see ONCE AGAIN PBKs do not hesitate to speak LIES to any extent, WHENEVER REQUIRED. But, while writing so, the PBK did not notice that this too would be a similar spiritual suicide like Mr. Dixit.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 15 Apr 2016

# Flaw No. 227) For PBKs, Father alone is fixed, MOTHER need not be:-

Adding few points to summarize:-

Case A:-CORPOREAL Father and MOTHER/s:-

1)PBKs usually utter the word- "FIXED Chariot". For them, the father/Dixit is fixed. But, mother need not be!

PBKs question BKs,- "Where is your father (in corporeal) after 1969?" But, they easily take it for granted that- "Mother need not be either in corporeal or fixed". Their (corporeal unlimited) Mother can be even a 'ghost'. Their (corporeal unlimited) Mother can play role through someone's body (Mr. Dixit), sometimes through many bodies (even in Kamala Devi). What a logic?

2)Moreover for PBKs, the father is only one, but mother can be many, as well as keep on changing, so total count of all these unlimited mothers* has NOW, become at least SEVEN-(= The 4/5 Brahmas plus 2 (including Premkanta and sister Yogini- who was appointed in-charge, after Kamala Devi left Yagya in 1998).
But, a point to be noted is- They never hesitate to use all the mothers as scapegoats, and declare - all the mothers/Brahmas are just "title-holders"!

*- But, PBKs are still confused about right title for these mothers. They are caught in their own trap. When asked - are all these 7 mothers unlimited or limited, PBKs fail to give reply. If they give all of them as unlimited, it will become wrong, as in Murlis it is said for just two souls. And- they even cannot give them title as 'limited' mothers, as EVERYONE is either a limited father or mother.

3)PBKs believe- DLR plays role of Jagadamba in body of Kamala Devi, not in body of others. It again turns out to be a spiritual suicide for them. According to PBKs, other mothers are not eligible to have title 'Jagadamba'.
PBKs believe DLR plays role of (just) a mother in Mr Dixit during the role of "Ardhnaareeshwar"; but DLR does not play role of 'Jagadamba' there; to play role of Jagadamba, DLR should be in body of Kamala Devi.
So, PBKs inadvertently imply- since 1998, PBKs have only Prajapita/JagatPita, no Jagadamba at all. No JAGADAMBA in AIVV from 1998 till present. - already put in flaw No. 64.

4)For PBKs, both the CORPOREAL father and his Chariot/body for the corporeal father are fixed. That is- Soul of Mr Dixit can play role of father only in his own body AND NO ONE ELSE. And, no other (human) soul can play role of father in any body, including his own.
--But, in case of CORPOREAL MOTHER, all the SOULS, AS WELL AS THEIR BODIES/chariots may keep on changing, PRACTICALLY COUNTLESS TIMES! How many chariots PBKs have? Any limit?
-------------------

Case B:-INCORPOREAL Father and MOTHER:- PBKs believe Incorporeal Father SHIV/GOD played role of "Father" in Mr Dixit/Sevakram from 1937 till 1942, and Shiv himself played role of "MOTHER" in DLR from 1947 till 1969.

5)PBKs believe God, ONCE AGAIN, is playing role of Father in Mr. Dixit from 1976 till date. But, where is God, ONCE AGAIN, playing role of Mother after 1969?
PBKs just say- DLR plays role of Mother in Dixit and in KD, or even KD plays role of Mother.
The point here is - before 1969, PBKs needed God to play role as Mother. But, after 1969, they do not need God to play role as Mother. Just HUMAN souls are enough for them as mothers.

6)Another funny thing is- if DLR is the media/Chariot for MOTHER, and Dixit/Sevakram is the media for Father, why God delayed till 1947 to play role of Mother in DLR? Why did not God enter into DLR, as well as in Sevakram, in parallel, such that from 1936/7 itself God could have played role of Father in one and Mother in the other? [Also see the next Post].

7)Moreover, according to PBKs, real Jagadamba is Kamala Devi. So, obviously, it would look good if they say- "God plays role of Father through Dixit and Mother through Kamala Devi", is it not? (as they openly say- God played role of Mother/Jagadamba through body of DLR from 1947 till 1969 = the cause for DLR to get title Jagadamba is entrance of God in him during that period). Or do PBKs say something else as if "DLR plays role of Jagadamba on his own"?

8)According to PBKs, unlimited fathers are of just TWO souls (Shiv and Dixit), but unlimited mothers can be FOUR (DLR &/in Kamala Devi, and Om Radhe &/in sister Vedanti).

9)Actually, even Father of PBKs is not fixed. Sevakram lost faith, left Yagya, then PBKs had just title holder Father. But, in this post, let us accept that Father of PBKs is fixed and one, as after 1976, they are attached to or believe just one corporeal personality as Father.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 16 Apr 2016

The mother is fixed. Only then every PBK gives it in writing.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 16 Apr 2016

sita wrote:The mother is fixed. Only then every PBK gives it in writing.
Good comment from Gyani tu atmas. So, if someone gives something in writing, DOES THAT BECOME THE TRUTH, and should it be accepted as truth by everyone, BLINDLY?
So, no need of either knowledge or the physical/actual incidents that had happened?
----------

# Flaw No. 228) If Mother (or Wife) dies, eat halwa:-

In Murlis, Baba says- "if mother dies, eat halwa, if wife dies, eat halwa." It is simple to understand that- One should not have attachment to anyone.
But, Mr Dixit gives his so-called extra-ordinary clarifications as - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=810&p=9476&hilit=halwa#p9476
arjun wrote:In the Sakar Murlis ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) has talked about a permanent Chariot (mukarrar rath). Although he has not used the words 'temporary Chariot' directly, but there are many phrases which suggest that there is a temporary Chariot also. For example Baba says, this is my old boot, and he also says that 'eat halwa even if your mother dies'. It is not to be taken in literal sense, but refers to the demise of mother Brahma (Dada Lekhraj). Even if Dada Lekhraj dies there is another Chariot through which ShivBaba would continue His task. Apart from this temporary and permanent Chariot, ShivBaba has not spoken about a third Chariot. Although three personalities are shown in Trimurti, but it has been clearly said in the Murlis that ShivBaba does not enter into Vishnu.
1)So, as per PBKs, the above quote in the Murli point refers to Bahma Baba. Mr. Dixit wanted to prove himself as the fixed Chariot. But, HE IS EVIDENTLY NOT, as they themselves say- God entered in him only in 1976.

2)Now, we can see a great karma philosophy here. PBKs defamed their real Mother, Brahma Baba, to maximum extent, than anyone in this world. But, in turn, their own FALSE mother, Kamala Devi, whom they believe as their real Mother, left Yagya in 1998.

3)For BKs, it is OK even if Brahma or Mama leaves/left bodies, since they are not rigid, with regard to corporeal bodies.
Now, does the above quote apply in case of Kamala Devi too?
NOT SURE- Mr Dixit may use the above quote in case of Kamala Devi too, as he has made even her as a scapegoat.

4) PBKs believe "Kamadhenu (the cow that fulfills all the desires)" is Kamala Devi. But, they give her title false Gita (FG) title. So, it leads to-

# Flaw No. 229) In PBK view, Kamadhenu is False Gita:-

5)Mr Dixit sometimes says- Kamala Devi is like a lotus in dirty water - has absolutely no attachment. But, he also says- Kamala Devi has attachment to B baba and is fully influenced by him, and the result is SEVERE eclipse on her. He also says- B Baba is riding on her.
Mr Dixit c/o arjun wrote: - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=632&p=44757&hilit=Kamala#p44757
So, who became devoted? To whom did the Moon of knowledge Brahma become devoted? (Student: The Earth) He became devoted to Mother Earth. In which way did he become devoted? Did he become devoted in the form of pati parmeshwar (husband, the lord) or in the form of a child? In today’s world, in every house are the children dominant over the mothers or are they under the control of the mothers? Hm? They are controlling the mothers. By chance, if the Father leaves his body, then the children, after growing up, take the mother completely under their control. He became the God of the Gita. They are sitting as the God of the Gita in every home. The God of the Gita means pati parmeshwar. They are sitting as Gitapati (husband/lord of Gita), the husband, God of Mother Gita. Who starts this? Which is the soul that starts this tradition? The soul of Krishna. Actually, the soul of Krishna has become dominant over the same mother who had given birth to him in the beginning of the Yagya by telling him: you are child Krishna. He enters her and diverts her very intellect. He sat as husband, God of Mother Gita. He committed an atrocity (julam kar diya).
6) We can see how weak PBKs souls are. PBKs believe Child Krishn has committed atrocity over his mother. He compares today's lowkik world- if Father dies, children control mother.
--Also- PBKs believe Brahma Baba is moon and hence has coolness, or plays role of coolness - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2552&p=51304#p51304 . But, they say B Baba committed atrocity. Are these tallying?

7)Arey- Where has Father/Dixit died so that children dominate mother? Also- is it that just one child dominating Mother? Why all other children do not dominate their mother?
Moreover, even in today's world, there are lots of cases where children look after their mother very well, let their Father be alive or not. So, it leads to

# Flaw No. 230) Jagadamba of PBKs is dominated by her just one child. Other children neither dominate nor are capable of helping her:-

8)So, the PBK Murlis- which they believe to be clarifications, are mainly defamation and criticisms of REAL ShivBaba, as well as His REAL 'mukrar-rath', Brahma Baba, and PBKs accept those personalities, who are the instruments of Ravan or Maya, who carry out such defamations and criticisms, as the greatest human souls. Great logic indeed. CARRY ON CLEO!

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 16 Apr 2016

Good comment from Gyani tu atmas. So, if someone gives something in writing, DOES THAT BECOME THE TRUTH, and should it be accepted as truth by everyone, BLINDLY?
So, no need of either knowledge or the physical/actual incidents that had happened?
Those who accept it as truth, they give it in writing.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 16 Apr 2016

# Flaw No. 231) Why ""in PBK view" B Baba leaving his body is the main criteria for God to enter into Mr. Dixit?:-

[quote=""arjun"]In the Sakar Murlis ShivBaba (through Brahma Baba) has talked about a permanent Chariot (mukarrar rath). Although he has not used the words 'temporary Chariot' directly, but there are many phrases which suggest that there is a temporary Chariot also. For example Baba says, this is my old boot, and he also says that 'eat halwa even if your mother dies'. It is not to be taken in literal sense, but refers to the demise of mother Brahma (Dada Lekhraj). Even if Dada Lekhraj dies there is another Chariot through which ShivBaba would continue His task.[/quote]
1) Baba has used the words 'temporary', as well as 'fixed' for the same personality. Baba says it is temporary, because
--he does not ride the Chariot for whole day, and
--ShivBaba does not have body of his own, also
--he plays role physically only in Conf Age.

OK, let us still agree with PBKs here.

2) Now- the question is- why should PBKs think DLR should first die (leave his corporeal body), then only God can enter into Mr. Dixit?
--PBKs believe- before 1969, ShivBaba, Brahma Baba, and other two sisters all were there in Yagya and during that period, God entered into Mr Dixit/Sevakram till 1942, and in the other two sisters till 1947.
--PBKs also believe the entire Yagya was in control of the two mothers till 1947, (and God entered into) and the two sisters used to teach drill even to Mama- Baba (Om Radhe, and DLR).
[Even Murli points clearly say so. But, it does not say - the Yagya was in control of the two pbk sisters. That is added propaganda by Mr. Dixit] ].

--So, WHY, after 1969 (or any date whatever it may be), similar part cannot take place*? God could have entered into Mr Dixit or Kamala Devi and sister Vedanti, and given clarifications or once again teach - perhaps - ADVANCED DRILL to others (INCLUDING Mama and B BABA), is it not?
--Is God afraid to enter into Mr. Dixit, when B baba was alive? or Mr. Dixit was afraid to return to Yagya till B baba had been alive?

* - That too- when PBKs believe - the part during the beginning will repeat in the end.
Apart from this temporary and permanent Chariot, ShivBaba has not spoken about a third Chariot. Although three personalities are shown in Trimurti, but it has been clearly said in the Murlis that ShivBaba does not enter into Vishnu
3) So, do PBKs believe God enters only in Mr Dixit and Kamala Devi (False Gita), and not in Vishnu (sister Vedanti - True Gita)?
--Also- in the beginning also God entered only in Adi Brahma between 1942 till 1947? And- hence - was it (only) FG the instrument to teach drill to Mama-Baba? Or ..?

4) Again (in PBK view) who is temporary Chariot? Kamala Devi or DLR?
--If the temporary Chariot is DLR, how can Kamala Devi get seat in Trimurti, as she is not one of the TWO chariots?
--If the temporary Chariot is Kamala Devi, how?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 24 Apr 2016

# Flaw No. 232) Do PBKs have full or only half Gita?:-

Continuing from Flaw No.s 211, and 214.
Mr Dixit c/o arjun wrote:... So, similarly the Murlis, the 18 chaptered Gita, which was narrated through the mouth of Brahma from 1951 to 1968 for 18 years, is clarified by Shiv by entering into Shankar since 1976. The task of a teacher is to give explanation, to clarify. He clarifies each word, each part of every sentence....viewtopic.php?f=2&t=203&p=14651&hilit=1951#p14651
1)Now, the available Murlis are just for the last 5 years, ending in 1969. So, where do PBKs have 18 chaptered Gita?

2) Mr Dixit says- he gives clarification for every word. But, we can see HOW CONVENIENTLY he has hidden many Murli points, which are exposed in the forum.

3)Also- our sita soul used to say- "I never compared Murlis to lowkik Gita". But, their own Guru says- Murlis are like 18 chaptered Gita. How many lies PBKs can speak openly?

4) Sometimes PBKs say "Sakar Murlis are true (Gita), sometimes say false (Gita). We can see the double standards or the twisting nature here. viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2180&p=51346#p51346
sita wrote:Why 'False Gita'? Are the Murlis through Brahma Baba not spoken by the true God Father? They are certainly true, but yes, they will be said to be The Knowledge of the Gita, not the Nectar of Immortality ('Amrit'), since 'Amrit' emerges only after churning.
So, whenever PBKs do not have reply, they will certify Murlis as true. But, whenever they wish to defame the Sakar Murlis and the Chariot through whom they were spoken, they will never hesitate to do so.

5) Murlis speak about true Gita (Murlis) and false Gita (the lowkik ones). There is also a Murli point - "Jhoothee Gita ko haath bhee math lagaavo = Do not even touch the false Gita" (= No need even to touch the false Gita).

Now, "in PBK view" to what does the above Murli point apply?
= What is false Gita in Conf. Age which need not be touched at all?


Mostly, now PBKs may have to agree that they understand 'false Gita' to refer to 'Sakar Murlis'. In that case, what is the need to clarify each word, or each part of every sentence of it?

And, as PBKs have only the last 5 year/chapters of the Gita (in their view), are they getting full knowledge or only half?

# Flaw No. 233) Is "Piyu ki Vani" true Gita or False Gita?

6)In PBK view, Is "piyu ki Vani" TG or FG? [Mostly they may say it as TG only].
Is there need to give clarification of even that?

7)Unfortunately PBKs do not have even the "piyu ki Vani".

So, what percentage of knowledge could they be finally receiving?

8)If we see the shooting "in PBK view"

-First is TG (piyu ki Vani) till 1942,
-then ambiguous (till 1947)
-then false Gita till 1969 (Sakar Murlis),
-then again fully false Gita (just Krishna waach = Avyakt Murlis) from 1969.
- And, from 1976 or 1980s, it is just a part of TG (clarification of only last 5 chapters of the 18).

9) BTW, Mr. Dixit gives clarification of even Avyakt Murlis. How many chapters does it have?
What does it relate to in lowkik Bhaktimarg?

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