Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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mbbhat
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 04 Sep 2016

# Flaw No. 326) Mr. Dixit had to invent "two subtle Brahmas" as well:-

Mr. Dixit invented 4 to 5 Brahmas to prove his FP (false propaganda). He called subtle Brahma as 'ghost', etc, and tried to defame him by all ways, still could not be satisfied, because Murli says- subtle Brahma is complete. So, he then bifurcated even subtle Brahma, and the juggling exercises of a senior PBK can be seen here.

From here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2332&p=42473&hilit ... ary#p42473
shivsena wrote:Murli 2-10-97 says: "सुक्ष्म-वतन-वासी तो है संपूर्ण ब्रह्मा ."
"Sukshma-vatan-wasi toh hai sampoorna Brahma."
["The subtle Brahma is sampoorna-complete karmatit Brahma"]
arjun wrote:The Subtle Region dweller Brahma being referred to above is not someone who lives in an imaginary Subtle Region, but in a subtle stage of mind and intellect while living in this harsh practical world and is revealed in the world of Brahmins from 1976.
Shivsena soul asked:- Are you trying to say that subtle Brahma is Ram's soul and prajapita Brahma is also Ram's soul from 1976 onwards ??
arjun soul replied:- Yes
Shivsena soul asked:- If subtle Brahma and prajapita Brahma are same after 1976, then why does Aivv teach that both are different souls.
Arjun soul replied:- BKs think of subtle Brahma as the soul of Dada Lekhraj with subtle body. This subtle Brahma is definitely different from the soul of Ram. But this subtle Brahma is not the complete Brahma that is referred in the Murlis when compared to the corporeal Brahma (Dada Lekhraj when he was alive). The subtle complete Brahma is Prajapita Brahma who lives in the world of subtle thinking and churning.
2)PBKs now- inadvertently imply- "incomplete Brahma rides/controls/misuses complete Brahma*". And- their so-called complete Brahma became fearful of the lowkik police when he was arrested, and their Jagadamba too left their complete Brahma!? - :laugh:

3) Sometimes, PBKs say- No, Mr Dixit is still in womb, an effort-maker, but when they fail to explain, they say- Mr Dixit is complete from 1976 itself ???

4) So, PBKs have not only murdered all the spiritual personalities- but also all the elevated words, as well. For them even the word- 'complete' can be used for a fully impure person, who had just come from the lowkik world - after playing the role of number one lustful thorn- "in their own view"

5)For PBKs, anything can be equated to anything. They may equate God to a DoG. They have hijacked all the words and titles**.

*6) More Mr Dixit tried to defame B baba, it just resulted in his spiritual suicide in greater depth.

7)Now- further questions arise-
---Why need of two subtle Brahmas?
----Again- if the corporeal Brahmas are 4/5, why subtle Brahmas are only two?
----Who in lowkik world believe all these?
---Where in Murli points it is said- subtle Brahmas are two?

8) Are PBKs aware of what they are saying and implying? PBKs are caught in the trap of their false Guru Mr Dixit to the extent that- they have lost their consciousness and just follow any light (side-scenes, illusions) as real goal.

**9) It may not be wrong to say- PBKs have proved themselves as spiritual terrorists.

10) BTW- PBKs believe one of the 4/5 Brahmas is even Mama (Om Radhe). They believe she has no corporeal body after 1965. Then she too should be a subtle Brahma- "in PBK view" - is it not? Where is that reference in Murli? Or at least have they invented third subtle Brahma?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 04 Sep 2016

You should have SEPARATE photo of Prajapita"
I think when Baba says "chitr", (picture) it mostly means face, person, character. We should have Prajapita as separate person. It is said in the context of Trimurti Brahma, that there is no meaning in Trimurti Brahma. The three murtis does not have to be made as one Brahma. Prajapita should be separate.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 04 Sep 2016

sita wrote:I think when Baba says "chitr", (picture) it mostly means face, person, character. We should have Prajapita as separate person. 1)It is said in the context of Trimurti Brahma, that there is no meaning in Trimurti Brahma. 2)The three murtis does not have to be made as one Brahma. 3)Prajapita should be separate.
1) Weak argument. Also- not addressed fully. Separate photo of Prajapita Brahma means, logically, it should be of individual.
---Even if your argument is taken as right- do you mean to say- Baba is directing- in the picture of Trimurti, photo of Mr Dixit should be put in the place of Brahma, and it is OK/right, and no need to change the faces of the other two murtis?
[Address fully, and also reply whether AIVV has followed it.]

2)And- the allegations from PBK side regarding superimposing of B baba on three faces is already proved as baseless. - Post No. 187- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ing#p15040

Baba himself has certified to show face of Brahma in other places in the Trimurti picture.

3) Now- In "PBK Trimurti picture", Mr. Dixit is placed in the seat of Shankar, not at the place of Prajapita Brahma! They have placed kamala Devi at the place of Brahma/Prajapita.
----Baba usually links the name Prajapita with Brahma, and not Shankar.

----Baba usually says- in the picture of Trimurti, the photo of Brahma is accurate- which clearly implies- Lekhraj Kirpalani is the one who has to be placed in that seat. How do PBKs interpret this?

Please reply fully- what do you mean by separate photo of Prajapita Brahma?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 04 Sep 2016

Could you, please, provide bigger part from the Murli, so that I can reply better.

When it is said that in the Trimurti, Prajapita has to have a separate image it means in reality he is a separate personality.

I think it is gross to suggest that the photos of Brahma Baba that has been kept is because of following the Shrimat to keep a photo. There is no such Shrimat. Keeping a photo of Brahma Baba has been strictly forbidden in the Murli. If Baba has said that we should not keep a photo he must have a point, and there is benefit in following that. If this is not followed, it is like dismissing, disrespecting, disobeying what Baba has said. You claim to know why Baba has said that photos should not be kept, but there is no such explanation in the Murli. The explanation is that we will become impure, etc.

Anyway let's suggest it is because children should not develop attachment. What happens is that children had developed arrogance and dismissed what Baba has said. They claim they know better and carelessly keep pictures thinking that they are so strong that they will not develop attachment even when they keep picture and proving Baba's directions to be useless. You can see how many pictures of Brahma Baba are kept even now, when it is clearly said that they should not be kept. Just imagine, what will it be if it was not said that photo should not be kept. Will there be any difference? I don't think so. How many more pictures could there be? It shows it does not really matter what Baba says.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 05 Sep 2016

# Flaw No. 327) Mr Dixit himself has unknowingly sacrificed/lost the highest seat "Prajapita Brahma":-
When it is said that in the Trimurti, Prajapita has to have a separate image it means in reality he is a separate personality.
Still weak argument. And- you need not say this*. And- did not reply fully. See the questions in the previous post.

* - All know that Chariot is special.
I think it is gross to suggest that the photos of Brahma Baba that has been kept is because of following the Shrimat to keep a photo.
* - Baba always highlights Chariot. So, to keep photo of Chariot is like following srimath.
There is no such Shrimat. Keeping a photo of Brahma Baba has been strictly forbidden in the Murli.
It is said in a personal way.

Mu Point:- Agar tum ShivBaba kpo bhoolkar Brahma Baap ke paas aate ho toh bhee paapaatma banthay ho. = If you come to B Baba by forgetting ShivBaba, you will become sinner.

But, another one says- Agar ShivBaba kee Yaad may tum is rath kee seva karthay ho, toh bahut oonch pad paa sakthay ho = If you do service of this Chariot in remembrance of ShivBaba, you can attain high status.

So- getting attached just to physical body of B Baba is discouraged.
You can see how many pictures of Brahma Baba are kept even now, when it is clearly said that they should not be kept. Just imagine, what will it be if it was not said that photo should not be kept. Will there be any difference? I don't think so. How many more pictures could there be? It shows it does not really matter what Baba says.
Childish argument. You have to first prove that you/AIVV have understood the Murli point properly and AIVV follows it. Instead you just point fingers at others.

BTW- You should be knowing that just 8/108 only are going to pass. So, others would be number-wise. So, that only would be the result. WHAT SURPRISE IS THERE? Do not you know that- it is going to be number-wise? Or even that should be taught to the so called 'gyaani tu atmas'?

So, if you are really interested in knowledge, then churn on knowledge, not what others do. To what extent we have understood is the first thing, following is next. So, prove that- PBKs have understood the Murli points better than BKs.

So- back to square one- If you can only say - "Prajapita is a separate personality"- there is nothing special in that. BKs also say/believe the same*.

Where have PBKs kept separate photo of Prajapita? They have placed their Prajapita at last/Shankar in Trimurti, have given even that seat to kamala Devi, who is now out of AIVV. That seat was initially given to Premkanta.
In all these ways- Mr. Dixit himself could not take the seat what he himself claims. :laugh:
--------------
sita wrote:Could you, please, provide bigger part from the Murli, so that I can reply better.
Sorry, the above Murli points are the ones in my database of Murlis long before.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 05 Sep 2016

In 1976, certainly the Golden Age can be considered to have been established in some form. The COMBINED souls of Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama renounce the Iron Aged World in TOTALITY, and NO LONGER belong to this OLD World, becoming TOTALLY detached from it, and START belonging to the Worlds of Shantidham & Sukhdham, through their Divine INTELLECTS, having TOTALLY & COMPLETELY REAL-EYEsed their HIGHEST ADMINISTRATIVE authority, BOTH, in Confluence Age, AS WELL AS, in the very beginning of G A - AS WELL AS, in the very beginning of S A.
Now you are copying the advanced knowledge.

We have provided a point that says that Mama does not have a corporeal body. Please, provide a point that says she has.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 05 Sep 2016

sita wrote:Now you are copying the advanced knowledge.
That is just another way of arguing. The so-called advance knowledge souls may take it rightly what is pointed to them. It is PBKs first tried to copy BKs, right? Then why do they accuse others for what they have done themselves? Anyhow, that is a VERY SMALL PART OF THE ARGUMENTS, WHICH CAN BE IGNORED.
We have provided a point that says that Mama does not have a corporeal body. Please, provide a point that says she has.
Sorry, at present, my database of Avyakt Murlis is quite less. So, will take time. Whatever it is- you may try to prove yourself what you claim. My intention here- is not to claim something here, but to prove claims of PBKs as wrong. So, ball lies in the court of PBKs who believe/claim they know more than BKs.

Lots of questions are put here- which you or ANY PBK MEMBER so far just failed in addressing. Let us see how it goes.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 05 Sep 2016

# Flaw No. 328) PBKs inadvertently imply Krishna needs Chariot and has chanchalataa:-

1) Baba says- Krishna does not need Chariot. But, AIVV inadvertently says/implies - Krishna needs Chariot, since they give title Krishna to B Baba from 1936 itself and believe he enters in body of Mr. Dixit, Kamala Devi, etc.

SM 3-6-79(1):- Yah to samajhte ho PRAJAPITA BRAHMA hai. Dher ke dher praja hai. Yah PRAJAPITA BRAHMA kaise hoga is par bahut achchi reeti samjhana hai. Kayi manushy Brahma ko dekh moonjhte hain. Arey! Itne BKK hain to zaroor Prajapita hoga na. Prajapita bigar praja kaise hogi? ShivBaba ki santaan to theek hai. Parantu praja ke roop may kaise aave? PRAJAPITA BRAHMA- Baap ne samjhaya hai inkay bahut janmon ke anth ke bhi anth may vaanaprasth avastha may main pravesh karta hun. Nahin to rath kahaan se aave? Rath gaayaa huva hee hai ShivBaba ke liye. Rath may kaise aate hain usmay moonjhte hain. Rath zaroor chahiye. Krishn toh ho na sake. To zaroor Brahma dwara samjhayenge. Oopar se to nahin bolenge. Brahma kahaan se aayaa. Baap ne sunaya main inmay pravesh karta hun jisnay poore 84 janm liye hain. Yah khud nahin jante, main sunata hun. Inmay bahut moonjhenge. KRISHN KO TOH RATH KI DARKAAR HEE NAHIN. KRISHN KAHNE SE PHIR BHAAGERATH GUM HO JATA HAI. KRISHN KI BHAAGEERATH GUM HO JATA HAI. Unka to pahla janm hai Prince ka. To bachchon ko andar may ghoomnaa chahiye, VSManthan karna chahiye. Yah to bachche jaante hain vah baatein to hai nahin jo shaastron may likh dee hai. Baaki yah to theek hai VSManthan huva. Kalash Lakshmi ko diya hai, usnay bhi auron ko Amrit pilaya tab swarg ke gate khulay. Parantu Parampita Paramatma ko VSManthan karne ki darkaar nahin. VAH to bejroop hai. Unmay swatah knowledge hai. vahee jante hain. Tum bhi nahin jante thay. Abhi yah achchee reti samjhaanaa zaroor hai. Samajhne bigar devta pad kaise paavenge.

= ... Krishn does not need Chariot at all. If you say- Krishn, the fortunate Chariot becomes 'ghum'/vanished. The fortunate Chariot of krishn becomes 'ghum'. His first birth is prince Krishna. ...

2) Moreover- PBKs believe Krishna has chanchalataa (mischievous)- a bad behaviour.

SM 30-7-81(3):- Krishn may bilkul koyi chanchalata ho nahin sakti. Krishn to bilkul hee Maryaadaa Purushottam hai. UNKI to mahima gaate hain sarvagun sampann,... Gaya jata hai Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu,.... Vaastav may na guru Brahma hai, na guru Vishnu hai, na guru Shankar hai. Tumko kahte hain tumhaaraa yah baba guru hai na. Bolo- Guru to humaraa hai nahin. Hum UNKO na guru na Ishwar maante hain. HUM KOYI BHI MANUSHY KO NAHIN MAANTE HAIN. Patit_pavan to ek hee niraakaar hai na. Sakar guru koyi patit_pavan ho na sake. .... Kiski bhi buddhi may nahin aataa ki Parampita Paramatma bindi hai. [144]

= Krishna has absolutely no chanchalataa (mischievousness). He is fully maryaadaa purushottam. His praise is- complete in all virtues....

PBKs give title Krishna to DLR from 1936 itself, and to Mr Dixit they believe it applies from 1983. In their view- both of them are incomplete. Their claims go against the Murli points.

3) In the first Murli point, it says- "The first birth of the fortunate Chariot is prince Krishn", not "Ram". But, in PBK view- the first birth is not prince krishn, but Narayan. In this way- they further lose their claim on fortune Chariot!

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 05 Sep 2016

If Krishna refers to the first deity prince in the Golden Age, how it is that he does not need a Chariot? How does he become a prince without a Chariot?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 05 Sep 2016

is not to claim something here, but to prove claims of PBKs as wrong.
That would be a waste of time. If you prove your points right, other points will be automatically proven wrong. Darkness does not go away by chasing it, but by turning the lights on. Otherwise you will be cutting heads of Ravan one by one, and on the place of one - ten more will come out.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 05 Sep 2016

sita wrote:If Krishna refers to the first deity prince in the Golden Age, how it is that he does not need a Chariot? How does he become a prince without a Chariot?
1) I am telling "in PBK view". In PBK view- Krishna can apply to Conf Age. In fact, they talk more about Conf Age krshna than Golden Age.
In their view, all the Murli points are applicable to BKs/PBKs, and all the memorials are applicable to Conf Age. So, it becomes their responsibility to address this Murli point in this view as well, is it not?

2) So, to whom is Baba saying Krishna does not need Chariot? Why is ShivBaba comparing Prajapita Brahma with Golden Age Krishna- To whom? For what purpose?

3) Or- are you saying- Krishn needs a Chariot? [Against the Murli point]?

4) Regarding the other Murli point saying- "Krishna does not have chanchalataa" - you may address in the same way as asked above/there.
That would be a waste of time....
.
Choice is yours dear.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 05 Sep 2016

Certainly, I say Krishna from the Golden Age does need a Chariot. Krishna from the Confluence Age too. In the point you have quoted Baba says that it is Brahma who becomes a Chariot and not Krishna.
= Krishna has absolutely no chanchalataa (mischievousness). He is fully maryaadaa purushottam. His praise is- complete in all virtues....
This is for the Golden Aged Krishna. Even if you like to prove it to be about the Confluence Age it is only at the end that the brahmins attain complete stage and their mischievousness ends and they become deities in one second.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 05 Sep 2016

sita wrote:Certainly, I say Krishna from the Golden Age

This is for the Golden Aged Krishna.
1)When PBKs fail to explain, they come down from their so called advanced level to the level of BKs and say- G Aged Krishna!
Else, they will keep on saying their FP as- "Conf. Aged Krishna, Conf,. Aged Narayan, Conf.Aged deities", blah, blah, blah! :laugh:

2)Still not addressed- to whom and why Baba says it. You have replied only to tail of the elephant, that too- just in twisted or half baked manner -dear sweet child of ShivBaba!

3)Also- Baba uses word "Krishna" many times in Murlis. PBKs use it differently to suit to their purpose.
----sometimes use for B Baba(DLR) from 1936 itself,
----sometimes to Mr Dixit from 1983
-----and sometimes to G Aged prince Krishna (next birth of B Baba).

If you like to mention, you may express percentage of each ones to whom the name Krishna is referred to.
----------
# Flaw No. 329) Fortunate Chariot is of "Krishna", not of Ram!:-

4) Also- Have you noticed (in flaw No. 328)- the Murli point also says- "Fortunate Chariot of Krishna", and- first birth of the fortunate Chariot is Prince Krishna!
Why not it is said as Fortunate Chariot of Ram?

If you think the fortunate Chariot here is referred to Mr. Dixit, you may now (if you like)- try to prove

----a)Why does Baba say here- Krishna, not Ram?
----b)How does prince Krishna fit to Mr Dixit?
----c)And- why name Krishna is not applicable to DLR?
Explain both logically, as well as give reference from Murli points, instead of just arguing in the usual way of - "my cock has three legs". But, even then you are free to act however you like. This is just a suggestion.

5) Also- Is body of Sevakram fortunate Chariot or not?

6) And- how does it look- "in PBK view" - God uses some Chariot Sevakram(not sure whether comes under fortunate or not), then uses a title-holder Chariot (not fortunate), then shifts again into another- Mr Dixit (which they call as fortunate), but still God cannot be free from 'ghost'! God still needs 'ghost' in the fortunate Chariot!

7) In the same Murli point- Baba has said- " If you say name Krishna, the fortunate Chariot becomes 'ghum' ". HOW? PBKs believe Mr. Dixit also has name "Krishna from 1983", and also believe Mr. Dixit is the main Krishna too. So, by using name Krishna, why should the fortunate Chariot become 'ghum'? :laugh:

BK view is simple and clear:- BKs believe- name Krishna is not applicable to Conf Aged personalities. It is for Golden Aged prince only. ShivBaba does not come in Golden Age. he comes in Conf Age, and the name of the Chariot is Brahma, NOT Krishna.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 05 Sep 2016

sita wrote:If Krishna refers to the first deity prince in the Golden Age, how it is that he does not need a Chariot? How does he become a prince without a Chariot?
sita wrote:Certainly, I say Krishna from the Golden Age does need a Chariot. Krishna from the Confluence Age too. In the point you have quoted Baba says that it is Brahma who becomes a Chariot and not Krishna.
Just funny contradictions!
----------------

# Flaw No. 330) PBKs inadvertently give up title "Main/First Brahma" - in their own point of view":-

Here is a Murli point which uses the word "MAIN BRAHMA"- which PBKs usually use.

For BKs, Brahma is only one and is the main corporeal personality.
But, for PBKs, Brahmas are 4/5. One is called as main Brahma, and others are called as "madhy/middle Brahma", etc, etc.
PBKs believe Kamala Devi is the "main/first Brahma" - but practically they gave the seat only from 1983! - after failure of Premkanta- :laugh:

SM 17- 3-78(1):- Sabhi ko marna hai zaroor. Manushy poochte hain kab marna hai. Kab vinash hoga. Ab divvy drushti se vinash ka saakshaatkaar kiya huva hai. Phir in aankhon se dekhna zaroor hai. Aur sthaapnaa jiskaa saakshaatkaar karte hain vah bhi in aankhon se dekhna hai. MUKHY JIS BRAHMA KA DIN AUR RAAT GAAYI HUYI HAI UNKO HEE STHAAPANAA AUR VINAASH KAA SAAKSHAATKAAR HUVA HAI. Toh jo divy drushti se dekha hai vah practical zaroor hoga.

= Definitely all have to die. People ask when death will come, when destruction will happen. Now, vision of destruction has already been seen through divine vision. Then you will definitely see through these eyes. And, the vision of establishment which are seen, also will be seen through these eyes. THE MAIN BRAHMA WHOSE GAAYAN (MEMORY) IS THERE AS DAY AND NIGHT, HE ONLY SAW THE VISION OF ESTABLISHMENT AND THE DESTRUCTION.

Most beloved Baba says- the one to whom, vision has occurred is the main Brahma. And, he is used as reference also.
Even PBKs believe vision has occurred to B baba only, neither to kamala Devi, nor to Premkanta or Dixit! So, they lost the seat of "main Brahma" as well.

So- however the so called advanced knowledge souls-(PBKs) twist/hijack the Murli points and titles and claim whatever they like, they always fall back to square one and are just like - yet to open their account- from all points of views-
--either LOGICAL POINT OF VIEW, or
-- Murli POINT OF VIEW, or
--(inadvertently) EVEN IN THEIR OWN POINT OF VIEW
:laugh:

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 05 Sep 2016

Most beloved Baba says- the one to whom, vision has occurred is the main Brahma. And, he is used as reference also.
I would not translate it as "main Brahma". I think here Baba means that the main thing that is famous about Brahma is Brahma's day and night.

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