Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas !

An open forum for all ex-BKs, BKs, PBKs, ex-PBKs, Vishnu Party and ALL other Splinter Groups to post their queries to, and debate with, any member of any group congenially.
mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3242
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by mbbhat » 26 Oct 2009

RudraPutra wrote:....you had not answered to my query of 1976 prediction....still i am waiting ...
It is just to accelerate effort of children. Baba has clearly said about the story of wolf and shepherd. The wolf came, wolf came, but did not come in the beginning. But finally it came. Similarly, the prediction of destruction should prove false.
....you first answer me about the so called corporeal true original bodily costume of PRAJAPITA according to you....and i will try to answer you the fake ones....
Dada Lekhraj is the true Prajapita after 1937. The same Prajapita became subtle after 1969.
------
SM 24-9-73(3):- Sthaapnaa karnevaalaa hai Parampita Paramatma- IS BRAHMA DWARA. Yah bhi Baba ne samjhaayaa hai sookshmvatanvaasi ko Prajapita nahin kahenge. Vahaan Praja hoti nahin. Toh zaroor Prajapita Brahma yahaan hoga. Vah hee phir Avyakt sampoorn banega. Vah toh hai Avyakt. Zaroor vyakt bhi chaahiye jo phir Avyakt hona hai. Donon abhi dikhaayi padte hain. PRAJAPITA BRAHMA YAHAAN BHI HAI TOH SOOKSHMVATAN MAY BHI HAI. Prajapita toh zaroor yahaan chaahiye. Zaroor Prajapita Brahma ke bachche bhi yahaan hee hain. Tum sabko kah sakte ho Prajapita jo vyakt hai vahee phir Avyakt hona chahiye.

= The one who creates is Supreme Godfather-through THIS Brahma. Baba has also explained that the subtle Brahma cannot be called as Prajapita. There is no praja(citizen). So definitely Prajapita would be here. He only will then become Avyakt. That is Avyakt(subtle). Definitely vyakt(corporeal) is also needed who will become Avyakt. Both are seen now. PRAJAPITA BRAHMA IS HERE AS WELL AS IN Subtle Region. Prajapita should be here. Definitely Prajapita Brahma’s children also would be here. You can tell all that the Prajapita who is corporeal himself will/should then become subtle. [VVIMP][118]

Dear Rudraputra soul,

I have already written this Murli point somewhere in this forum.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3242
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by mbbhat » 26 Oct 2009

shivshankar wrote:Brother, IMHO in PBK's case it is illusion rather than lie.
Dear Soul,
It is both.
Ther is a saying- it is good to say lie for a good cause. But even truth spoken with bad intention is the highest lie. I think the first fits for BKs for around 50% and the second fits for PBKs at least 75%. You might have already seen in the threads-

Who is Shiv and Who is ShivBaba? Are they different souls? AND Murli points on Mala(rosary)

You are right. All is drama.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3242
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by mbbhat » 27 Oct 2009

Rudraputra soul wrote:- ....1)there are many fake personalities trying to glare themselves as PRAJAPITA...2)i don't want to mention individual's name ....you can have your own research from members of splinter groups.....all categories of Vishnu Party,Krishna party,ppbk and so on are those groups.....you can have details from those members....
3)now i would like to know the answer of yours for my question.....i know whom you consider the fake one.....but want to know the real true present corporeal body costume of PRAJAPITA.....according to you?
1)Thankyou for the reply. Are you sure that they call themselves as Prajapita?

2)being so called advanced knowldge people, I request you to explain in detail the names of all those here. PBKs have no hesitation to mention names of Dadis, BK Shivani, etc, etc. So I think, they should mention who are fraud Prajapitas.

3)I have already mentioned the Murli point that Prajapita would become Avyakt. That is he will not be present in corporeal body till the end.

So- Prajapita is playing part of creation even now.

In Bhaktimarg, two types of creations are famous.

a)One through mouth of Brahma.

b)Second- by thoughts. That is- they say Brahma created by sitting there(at Subtle Region)

So the soul of Prajapita has two stages, one corporeal and another subtle.

Even now, BapDada(at least soul of Brahma as per pbk philosophy) decend in Dadi. So when he still has contact with corporeal world, why is not he Prajapita even now?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11517
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by arjun » 27 Oct 2009

Even now, BapDada(at least soul of Brahma as per PBK philosophy) decend in Dadi. So when he still has contact with corporeal world, why is not he Prajapita even now?
Is Dadi called Prajapita? And if Brahma's soul is playing a corporeal role through Dadiji, then why is the knowledge called Avyakt (unmanifest/subtle) Vani and why is BapDada called Avyakt BapDada and not corporeal (Sakar) Vani and Sakar BapDada?

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3242
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by mbbhat » 28 Oct 2009

arjun wrote:1)Is Dadi called Prajapita? 2)And if Brahma's soul is playing a corporeal role through Dadiji, then why is The Knowledge called Avyakt (unmanifest/subtle) Vani and why is BapDada called Avyakt BapDada and not corporeal (Sakar) Vani and Sakar BapDada?
1)Why should we call Dadi as Prajapita when it can be only one soul? What is the necessity? I have already supplied Murli point that the same vyakt Prajapita will become Avyakt.

Arey dear PBKs,
We give importance not to body. PBKs give. Even when ShivBaba is in brahma, BKs remember just Shiv [for me both Shiv and ShivBaba are same].

We give importance to the one who speaks through the body and not to the body. Dadi does not speak at all! So how come or why should she be called as Prajapita?

I have already explained that no convertion/adoption takes place through Dadi.

2)Now, He does not have body if his own. Hence it is called Avyakt Vani or Avyakt Murli.

Murli spoken when Brahma was in Sakar is Sakar Murli. Murli spoken after Brahma is Avyakt is Avyakt Murli.

What surprise/confusion is there?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11517
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by arjun » 28 Oct 2009

mbbhat wrote:We give importance to the one who speaks through the body and not to the body. Dadi does not speak at all! So how come or why should she be called as Prajapita?
If there is no importance of the body then why was Dada Lekhraj named as Brahma or Prajapita Brahma (according to BKs)?

There are hundreds of Murli points which say that the corporeal medium is also important. Without the corporeal medium, the incorporeal Shiv cannot do anything. Those who believe only in the incorporeal (nirgun) form of God are vidharmis, where as those who see the incorporeal through the corporeal (sagun) are swadharmis.
2)Now, He does not have body if his own. Hence it is called Avyakt Vani or Avyakt Murli.
Murli spoken when Brahma was in Sakar is Sakar Murli. Murli spoken after Brahma is Avyakt is Avyakt Murli.
Sometimes you say God is corporeal through Dadi and sometimes you say God is Avyakt (unmanifest) through Dadi. You yourself are confused. Anyway, you can continue to have your own beliefs. I am not here to argue with anyone.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3242
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by mbbhat » 28 Oct 2009

1)If there is no importance of the body then why was Dada Lekhraj named as Brahma or Prajapita Brahma

2)Sometimes you say God is corporeal through Dadi and sometimes you say God is Avyakt (unmanifest) through Dadi. You yourself are confused. Anyway, you can continue to have your own beliefs. I am not here to argue with anyone.
1)because he is number one soul, next to god, Father of humanity. We still are not going to see/remember body(chitr). We are interested in charitr(action).

Most of the Murli points say- do not remember Brahma. But of course, respect is to be given.

2)Sometimes when you ask questions of such type, answers will be like that.

Thankyou.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3242
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by mbbhat » 28 Oct 2009

Rudraputra soul wrote:- you can have your own research from members of splinter groups.....all categories of Vishnu Party,Krishna party,ppbk and so on are those groups.....you can have details from those members....
Will any pbk say- whether these groups'heads call themselves as Prajapita?

Also to which category these splinter groups fall according to pbk philosophy? - Pandav, Kourav or Yadav and how?

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11517
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by arjun » 28 Oct 2009

Will any PBK say- whether these groups'heads call themselves as Prajapita?
Please put this question to the members of those groups as you don't have any faith in PBKs.
Also to which category these splinter groups fall according to PBK philosophy? - Pandav, Kourav or Yadav and how?
They are definitely not Pandavas. But I don't think ShivBaba (through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) has categorized ex-PBKs as Kauravas or Yadavas. They are simply called vidharmis. However, I will try to send this question to Baba.
1)because he is number one soul, next to god, Father of humanity. We still are not going to see/remember body(chitr). We are interested in charitr(action).

Most of the Murli points say- do not remember Brahma. But of course, respect is to be given.
This topic has been discussed in detail by PBKs along with Murli proofs elsewhere. So, I will not give any further reply on this topic. You are free to see ShivBaba as a point of light (without the corporeal medium).

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3242
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by mbbhat » 30 Oct 2009

Please put this question to the members of those groups as you don't have any faith in PBKs.
So- no pbk has interest/willingness to say who is false Prajapita? Even though they call themselves as PBKs!

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11517
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by arjun » 31 Oct 2009

So- no PBK has interest/willingness to say who is false Prajapita? Even though they call themselves as PBKs!
Ask sensible questions and you will get answers. The answer to the above question is already available in the splinter groups Section of the forum.

User avatar
RudraPutra
Posts: 259
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To share knowledge along with the groups and to bring truth in front of everyone
with a hope that this might enlighten the truth in front of the joined members with an acknowledgement of knowing ShivBaba in an accurate form....
Contact:

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by RudraPutra » 03 Nov 2009

mbbhat wrote: It is just to accelerate effort of children. Baba has clearly said about the story of wolf and shepherd. The wolf came, wolf came, but did not come in the beginning. But finally it came. Similarly, the prediction of destruction should prove false.
THANX.....i must not have accepted any better answer than this from you.....there is a world famous story of a fox who satisfies itself considering the grapes as sour....same applies here.....but here the concept is not of grapes,it's of ShivBaba and his knowledge.....finally it's your decision to have grapes or not....
Dada Lekhraj is the true Prajapita after 1937. The same Prajapita became subtle after 1969.
------
SM 24-9-73(3):- Sthaapnaa karnevaalaa hai Parampita Paramatma- IS Brahma DWARA. Yah bhi Baba ne samjhaayaa hai sookshmvatanvaasi ko Prajapita nahin kahenge. Vahaan Praja hoti nahin. Toh zaroor Prajapita Brahma yahaan hoga. Vah hee phir Avyakt sampoorn banega. Vah toh hai Avyakt. Zaroor vyakt bhi chaahiye jo phir Avyakt hona hai. Donon abhi dikhaayi padte hain. PRAJAPITA Brahma YAHAAN BHI HAI TOH SOOKSHMVATAN MAY BHI HAI. Prajapita toh zaroor yahaan chaahiye. Zaroor Prajapita Brahma ke bachche bhi yahaan hee hain. Tum sabko kah sakte ho Prajapita jo vyakt hai vahee phir Avyakt hona chahiye.

= The one who creates is Supreme Godfather-through THIS Brahma. Baba has also explained that the subtle Brahma cannot be called as Prajapita. There is no praja(citizen). So definitely Prajapita would be here. He only will then become Avyakt. That is Avyakt(subtle). Definitely vyakt(corporeal) is also needed who will become Avyakt. Both are seen now. PRAJAPITA Brahma IS HERE AS WELL AS IN Subtle Region. Prajapita should be here. Definitely Prajapita Brahma’s children also would be here. You can tell all that the Prajapita who is corporeal himself will/should then become subtle. [VVIMP][118]
first you answer me, what does it mean "donon abhi dikhaayi padte hai?" which means both must be different?
second Prajapita must be here?....show me how?...
i agree that corporeal should become subtle....but it is also said that parajapita should be here.....so how come this works?....praja remain in corporeal world with corporeal body for 365 days of whole year hence prajapita should also be present for 365 days of whole year in this corporeal world with corporeal body.....who is that personality?
moreover it is also said that "vyakt and Avyakt brahma both are seen"------ how is it possible?....it is possible only if corporeal personality is present.....it is not at all applicable for subtle one.....as he cannot be called prajapita....!!!

User avatar
shivshankar
working towards unification
Posts: 246
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: reforming BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: dharna
Contact:

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by shivshankar » 03 Nov 2009

Mental masturbation. All this discussions is nothing but that kind of activity. Sorry for this words, but IMHO it is so . Theories theories theories words words words water water water. No practical experience only words for words. I am honestly wish you to stop this and to start discuss something PRACTICAL rather than THEORETICAL. You are wasting your own priceless time for... words.

User avatar
RudraPutra
Posts: 259
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To share knowledge along with the groups and to bring truth in front of everyone
with a hope that this might enlighten the truth in front of the joined members with an acknowledgement of knowing ShivBaba in an accurate form....
Contact:

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by RudraPutra » 07 Nov 2009

shivshankar wrote:Mental masturbation. All this discussions is nothing but that kind of activity. Sorry for this words, but IMHO it is so . Theories theories theories words words words water water water. No practical experience only words for words. I am honestly wish you to stop this and to start discuss something PRACTICAL rather than THEORETICAL. You are wasting your own priceless time for... words.
if you consider churning as mental masturbation than this is what you should answer ShivBaba.....it is he who asks us in Murli to undergo churn for knowing the true form of SHIV.....moreover if anyone like mbbhatt says something very much opposite to ShivBaba why don't you ask him about the thing....he is claiming that SHIV had lied about the incident of vinash in year 1976....do you think we are fool to believe on him or should keep mum on his rubbish statements?....his statement of saying "SHIV LIED" shows how much importance he give to SHIV's Murli.....how can i expect anything truth from him?????
it is obvious that this type of reaction would be seen hereafter if such type of statements come....
if mbbhatt claims in the same way....tomorrow he may even say that there would be no heaven...SHIV just lied.....no need of preparing for new world,no Krishna,no Radha,no Lakshmi Narayan and a big joke no brahma....everything was lied by SHIV.....is not this disgusting?
see if you do not know the answer accept the truth instead of blaming on SHIV.....SHIV never lies...."Paththar ki lakeer" word is used as comparison with SHIV's Murli.....and still mbbhatt lives in world of dreams....
if he continues to move in same path then i think he have to rethink on whether we have to respond him or not.....person with such mentality is next to nothing from bk as well as pbk point of view....
:frown:

sachkhand
ex-PBK
Posts: 381
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK

Re: Beware of fraud Prajapitas and Jagadambas.

Post by sachkhand » 07 Nov 2009

RudraPutra wrote: if you consider churning as mental masturbation than this is what you should answer ShivBaba.....it is he who asks us in Murli to undergo churn for knowing the true form of Shiv
many feel they are churning knowledge even if they are just repeating what is told to them. Even if they themselves do not understand or expereince what they tell others, they still feel they have churned the knowledge. Just repeating what someone tells, evenif it is Truth, does not help us unless we churn what we hear and bring it to our own expereince. And therefore ShivBaba has not told to advertise the knowledge, but to digest it by churning and get the power of expereince. Once we acquire the power of expereince no need to worry about what others say. Just follow our expereinces.
RudraPutra wrote: ....moreover if anyone like mbbhatt says something very much opposite to ShivBaba why don't you ask him about the thing....he is claiming that Shiv had lied about the incident of vinash in year 1976....do you think we are fool to believe on him or should keep mum on his rubbish statements?

it is obvious that this type of reaction would be seen hereafter if such type of statements come....
if mbbhatt claims in the same way....tomorrow he may even say that there would be no heaven...Shiv just lied.....no need of preparing for new world,no Krishna,no Radha,no Lakshmi Narayan and a big joke no Brahma....everything was lied by Shiv.....is not this disgusting?

see if you do not know the answer accept the truth instead of blaming on Shiv....Shiv never lies...."Paththar ki lakeer" word is used as comparison with Shiv's Murli.....and still mbbhatt lives in world of dreams....
:frown:
I totally agree that Shiv never lies. And I consider that even Brahma Baba never lied.
There is a difference between lying and telling something wrong. We might tell something wrong sometimes because we think it is right then. But lying means telling wrong purposely and consciously. I fell Brahma Baba too never lied.

But we have to accept that errors did occur through Brahma Baba in Murlis. And I think this was the reason why ShivBaba has spoken in Murlis that always say BapDada tells. If not others will think that only ShivBaba has said so. And ShivBaba has also said that He is responsible for Brahma Baba. Even if something goes wrong He will take care about it. There are clear Murli points regarding these two things.

So in my opinion we cannot say that everything is "Paththar ki lakeer". We can churn knowledge and if we find any explanation then it is good and fine. If not, just leave it and proceed further. some day we will understand that too.
:neutral:
Sanjeev.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests