The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's History

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's History

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Oct 2012

I will attach a copy of the BK version as a reference for people when they have to re-write it again!
Yagya_Story_Oct_2012.pdf
(132.23 KiB) Downloaded 215 times
Split from this topic: Kamala Devi Dixit - jagdamba ???

This is the latest version of the BKWSU version of the history. It mentions Pushpa as Piyu and the Piyu Vanis.
BKWSU wrote:Brahma Baba though, believes in the distinct personality of Piyu. However, that does little to convince others.
  • As usually, it is very clearly factually and assumptively wrong in important places. Their vision or fantasy may be becoming clearer but only due to the pressure of outside influences. In my opinion, they still struggle to keep to manage the release of information to protect their own political positions within the Yugya.
It seems during the entire 1930s and 40s, Lekhraj Kirpalani basically had no voice at all. He keeps ... or is kept ... in the background and does everything to avoid coming out. As a fact, he even refused coming to the Tribunal on the grounds he was ill (I presume a lie or half-truth, from memory I think they claimed appendicitis).
BKWSU wrote:1943 During this period Brahma Baba relies heavily on a series of trance messengers to facilitate his own understanding and churning. Knowledge is still clearly Manmanabhav (let your mind be with God) Madhiajibhaw, ie Aham Brahma Asmi or Aham Chaturbhuj (I am the creator of creation/Vishnu/God).
shivsena wrote:... and after 1965 when Mama became farishta, then the whole subtle Sangamyugi drama became clear to her and that is what she describes in Sakar Murlis of 3 1/2 years through DLR ... when Mama came during-Lekhraj Kirpalani's class, then he used to stop giving Gyan and would say that now Mama will take the class.
Remind me, which are the original years of the oft mentioned "5 year Murli Cycle", it is the 5 years before 1969? I understand that you are placing emphasis on the years from 1965 to 1969. It would be interesting to study the change in personality of these and such theories would explain the great change in personality after 1969.
a complex riddle.....the whole mystery about who was narrating Gyan before 1965 will be clear only as the revelation time draws near and the senior Dadis who were with Mama reveal what really happened in the beginning of the Yagya.
Thank you for saying that. Yes, indeed.

We have heard talk of the Piyu Vanis, a so called "Golden Circle", perhaps some involvement of Janki Kripalani's sister, and a group who were involved but left. Who is going to be brave enough to spill the beans?

My feeling is that Janki Kripalani's ego/denial/attachment whatever is the primary obstacle ... and that people are either enthralled or afraid of her ... and the merchants within the Yugya value her profitableness to risk upsetting her.

My speculation ... and I emphasise this is *purely* my feeling and speculation ... is that her number one attachment is to Lekhraj Kirpalani and given than she was not his number one and did not have as much access to him as others hand in the early days, she is still hanging onto him and receiving his boons; and consequently the entire Yugya under her influence (mainly the West) has been skewed towards Lekhraj Kirpalani Bhakti clouding the truth.


Again, I write thing not on the basis of knowing Advance Knowledge but purely my own observations and experience. In the early days of the Yugya in the West under her, centers-in-charge were taught to encourage students that Lekhraj Kirpalani's versions were God's versions, or should be taken unquestionably as God's instructions. She was the one who, against Shrimat, demanded and instituted the trance lights. I remember her specifically pumping out large pictures of Lekhraj Kirpalani to each and every student, even placing him between couples that were in Gyan. "My Baba" she used to call him, like a cute little girl. She obviously felt second or third class to Om Radhe, and with her removal, Janki was ... perhaps ... able to have him for herself for the first time.

The impression I get from the likes of Jayanti, who is perfectly aware of all the revelations that are going on, is that she is afraid or unwilling to rock the boat because, naturally, Janki's throne will fall to her next. She rather manipulatively says the reason for not speaking up or out or question is due to "showing respect" for the elders. I guess she is playing the consummate politician and waiting until Janki dies and her position within the BKWSU Kingdom is secured until making any changes.

Will we have to wait until them for the revelation, or will the revelations come from outside their control?

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Oct 2012

Gosh, this is interesting ... for the first time we read that the "Shivohum ... Shivohum" episode did *NOT* happen in 1936 as they have been saying officially up until now!!!

They now claim it happens in 1948 ...
BKWSU wrote:1948 Shiv Baba speaks through Brahma Baba directly (not through Pushpa) saying “Shivohum” in the same whispering voice that had been associated with Piyu five to six years earlier.
... and that 1952 was when the separation of Lekhraj Kirpalani and Shiva happened with the final distinction as being in 1957-60.

Now, who said that before? I don't know what the scholars of the PBKs have been saying, but that is certainly what brahmakumaris.info have been saying for years.

This version is not signed, the BKWSU is releasing no information, but I am guess Tamasin Ramsay is involved in this. It's sloppy, exaggerated and inaccurate.
BKWSU wrote:The early documents and pictures are available at: (website ?) If you have any questions about the information here, please address them to (?) and cc (?). References can be provided.
Surely everyone knows that any sincere BK can find the documents and pictures here, or at brahmakumaris.info?

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Oct 2012

Politician don't lead their flock ... they just run ahead of it to pretend that they do, and have to keep looking over their shoulders for hints of which way the flock is turning in order to keep up the myth they are its leaders.

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Oct 2012

Note, they call 1948 the "second coming of Piyu" ... is there an Advance Knowledge opinion about this.

Obviously the BKWSU is in a high dance about all this stuff and my guess they are pillaging both brahmakumaris.info *AND* the AIVV/PBKs for a lead on all this.

My prediction is that they will pillage as much of the Advance Knowledge as possible in order to steal the thunder from the PBKs' sails.

The BK leadership have conditions BKs to be so totally under their control and reliant on them for information that they will have no idea where the inspiration has come from.

That way the BK leadership will be able to remain in power and influence over the movement ... rather than standing down for their corruption, exploitation and misdeeds as they should do.

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by arjun » 05 Oct 2012

fluffy-bunny,
Thanks for uploading the document. But is it an official document published by BKWSU or is it a part of a publication published by BKWSU or is it any draft extract of a publication planned to be published by the BKWSU? From the language and style of the document, it does not seem to be part of an already published book. So, please clarify about the source of the information.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Oct 2012

The immediate source of the information is the BKs discussion forum, here:

http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... -t619.html

I don't know yet what its proper status is. It seems BK Tamasin Ramsay has taken over the historical research that Dr Wendy Sargent was in charge of. She is an academic of sorts and has a different style to previous BK authors. She is, of course, still an adherent but, I guess, is sensible enough to see that the BKs in the West have to do something to get to grips with the mess or lose face.

You might remember her acting in Robin Ramsay's spoof video of the Om Mandli which the BK leadership banned and were unhappy with.

She has been using her academic position to skilfully 'doctor' the controversy over the BK"s history in publications and is clearly picking influences from outside of the Yugya.

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by arjun » 07 Oct 2012

Thanks for the clarification. I could not find any such file attached in that discussion. Anyway, whether it is an official publication or not, if the BKWSU agrees to what is written in the document, then they should also publish the actual 'Piyu ki Vani' (versions of Piu) narrated through Sister Pushpa as they claim.
BKWSU wrote:1943 During this period Brahma Baba relies heavily on a series of trance messengers to facilitate his own understanding and churning. Knowledge is still clearly Manmanabhav (let your mind be with God) Madhiajibhaw, ie Aham Brahma Asmi or Aham Chaturbhuj (I am the creator of creation/Vishnu/God).
This matches with the theory put forward long ago by AIVV/PBKs that there were some Brahmin children (one male and at least two females) who used to give directions to Mama (Om Radhey) and Baba (Brahma Baba). The females used to go into trance and bring messages for the Yagya.
fluffy-bunny wrote:Note, they call 1948 the "second coming of Piyu" ... is there an Advanced Knowledge opinion about this.
Again this matches with the teachings of the Advance knowledge which says that the entry of Shiv in Brahma Baba began only in 1948 when he was around 60 years old. And the actual narration of Murlis began from 1951 when they shifted to Mount Abu.

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by fluffy bunny » 07 Oct 2012

You can absolutely guarantee that the BKWSU have ripped off the ideas from the PBKs and via PBK influence at Brahma Kumaris Info.

What they are doing is co-opting elements of Advance Knowledge, to disempower the AIVV and the truths revealed by BrahmaKumaris.Info.

However, rather than give credit and respect to those sources, they are using one of their own to appear like the deliverer of these now found truths in order to make them acceptable and to keep their followers from going to, or finding genuine sources. In this way, they keep their followers enslaved to them in the case of the poor Indians, and allied to them, in the case of rich and privileged Westerners.

To understand how far they are willing to sink, and the ethics of these people, Karuna Shetty has now started up his own websites called ...
copying us in order to try and drown our influence off from the internet, or confuse readers who hear about BK Info. How pathetic ... but it shows you again what that man is like. I don't know what the PBKs says, but I consider him to be one of the worst corrupting influences of the Brahma Kumaris.

I cannot saying the AIVV has got everything correct, but if it was not for the work of Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs, the truth of the BKWSU would have been lost and forgotten a long time ago.

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by warrior » 07 Oct 2012

fluffy bunny wrote:Gosh, this is interesting ... for the first time we read that the "Shivohum ... Shivohum" episode did *NOT* happen in 1936 as they have been saying officially up until now!!!
Some more insides on the Shivohum and God Prajatipa Brahma story in this early collection of BK's print materials.
Souvenir 1976-77 (2).pdf
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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by arjun » 08 Oct 2012

fluffy-bunny wrote:To understand how far they are willing to sink, and the ethics of these people, Karuna Shetty has now started up his own websites called ...
It is not new for them. Many years ago when AIVV did not have an official website, one of the PBKs was running a website named www.ShivBaba.com, but BKWSU usurped that site name as soon as they got a chance to prevent anyone reading the advance knowledge.

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by Roy » 15 Oct 2012

fluffy bunny wrote:BKWSU wrote: 1948 Shiv Baba speaks through Brahma Baba directly (not through Pushpa) saying “Shivohum” in the same whispering voice that had been associated with Piyu five to six years earlier.
What's this about a whispering voice... ShivBaba doesn't speak with a whispering voice, especially through a male body with a voice as gruff as Brahma Baba Krishna's.

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Oct 2012

I cannot say. Someone with closer and better relationships to the BKWSU than I will have to ask them. By default and track record, I presume the BKs have it wrong and make things up.

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by Roy » 17 Oct 2012

fluffy bunny wrote:I cannot say. Someone with closer and better relationships to the BKWSU than I will have to ask them. By default and track record, I presume the BKs have it wrong and make things up.
I am no expert in this matter, but the idea that Father Shiv would whisper through Brahma Baba seems wrong to me... and as you say about the BKs, you cannot take anything they say to be true.

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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by warrior » 07 Jul 2013


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Re: The BKWSU latest historical revision of the Yagya's Hist

Post by Roy » 07 Jul 2013

warrior wrote:Some honesty at last!
Perhaps when you have time warrior Bhai, you could give a brief summary of the most important points raised in this history class, as my Hindi is still nonexistent.

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