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ANU
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Search for Answers.

Post by ANU » 24 Oct 2010

Dear All brothers.

There has been a pretty long discussion among few people regarding some vital points of the advanced Gyan. Some aspects have remained unclear. They were sent to AIVV with a request for help in understanding a long time ago. No final answer has come yet, as it was said that ShivBaba is very busy and in the tour all the time. If by chance you have come through some new research (allegedly some new research have been done) or points or parts of classes that may explain the following issues, please post them here. Please, post only the answers based on facts, not speculations or hypothesis. There are too many speculations and too few hard facts in Gyan so far and it brings about confusion.

1. What is the main scripture of Islam? The scripture should be written short after the coming of the religious Father. It was said many times in Gyan, in the Advance Course that Quran is the scripture of Islam. It would mean that Islam remained without its scripture for 1200 years, and only Muslims gave them the scripture. Then, it was mentioned that "Angel" is the scripture of Islam. However this name is unknown and no traces of such a scripture could be found so far.

2. Where are Islamis today? It was stated in clarifications that the Islamis became Muslims. However, there was also stated that the Jewish belong to the Islami branch. The Jewish have been living till today. Their sacred book is the TORA - the first five books of the Bible (wrote far earlier than the Quran). So, if Jewish are original Islamis livig today and they fight with Muslims, why has it been taught that the Islamis are Muslims and the sacred book of Islam is Quran?

3. What is the sacred scripture of Buddhism? The Dhammapada or the Suttapitaka, whose part the Dhammapada is? Or Tripitaka as the Buddhists themselves believe?

4. How can the soul of Prajapita play the role of Tulsidas and Shahjahan as it was declared - Shahjahan lived in 1592-1666 and Tulsidas in 1532-1623.

5. How is it possible that Prajapita played the role of the last emperor of the Mughal Kingdom - Abu Zafar Sirajuddin Muhammad Bahadur Shah Zafar
October 1775 – 7 November 1862. At the same time, according to the clarification of the Tree of the Kalpa in the Advance Course, the soul of Prajapita is supposed to play the role of establishing the kingdom of Sikh, the role of the grand-Father of Lenin and some role among Arya Samaj. All these three roles overlap with the life of the Mughal last emperor.
a. the grandpa of Lenin (the Father's line) - 1770-1838 Nikolaj Vasil'evic Ulyanov
b. the establishment of Sikh empire - MAHARAJA RANJIT SIGH (1780-1839) The Lion of the Punjab
c. the role among Arya Samaji - ? when is the time for it?

6. According to the Advance Course Prajapita should play a part in the establishment of Christian empire in Bharat. There are two key personalities in this: Robert Clive (1725-1774) and Warren Hastings (1732- 1818) ----- how then can he play the role in the establishment of the Christian empire and the role of Lenin's grandpa and the role of the last emperor of Mughals and also.... next point

7. the role of Dayanand's grandfather, whose date of birth and death are unknown. Dayanand lived 1824-1883. Usually grandfathers are app 60 years elder than grandsons. So, he could be born app. 1740/1750. When and how can all these roles be played by one soul?

8. It was taught in the Gyan that Prajapita was Sevakram in the previous birth and he was the husband of Dada's elder sister. Sevakram and Dada's sister as a married couple were Vishnu in their last birth and Sevakram was "bahanoi" for Dada. How is it possible, when Dada's sister, named Haki Hathiramani was a wife of a businessman name Kismatram Hathiramani who was running a business with Japan; they lived in Calcutta, but in some other place, not together with Sevakram who lived in the same building where Dada had his shop.

9. Dadi Nirmalshanta, according to the Advance Course, is supposed to have been an adopted daughter of Sevakram and his wife, Dada's elder sister. However, she herself recollects the Hathiramani family , not Sevakram, as her adopted parents. And she also mentions Sevakram as a seperate person, who as she says "was the most truthful man for Dada Lekhraj and Dada entrusted him with all his secrets".

10. Om Radhe Mama was born in 1917. It makes her 19 years old in 1936. However, it has been taught that she was 14 in 1936 (5 years difference) and it made her pravritti with Dada impossible. 33 years difference - not so much. In Indian tradition very young girls, even children, were forced to get married with much elder men and they were widely accepted as normal couples.

11. Prajapita in this birth was in the pravritti with Jagadamba, is it correct? Does the age difference matter? She was said to be 9 in 1976. When she surrendered, she was not major. How was teh pravritti created then? Now, he is not anymore in the pravritti with Jagadamba and has changed the pravritti into the union with Yogini? Does the age matter or not in this case?

12. What is the original sacred scripture of the Hindu religion - the Vedas or the Gita? The Gita was written long after the Veda. If we follow the rule 'old is gold' the scripture that was narrated earlier contain more true facts. So, finally, were the Vanis narrated through Dada the Vedas or the Gita? These two names are used for them in Gyan. Yet, the Vedas and the Gita are substantially different things.

13. How was the kingdom of Islam established in app. 100 BC (this is the time when the kingdom should be established after the establishement of the religion).

14. Any facts and data that idols of Shankar are widely found in excavations across the world will be appreciated. The facts and data for phallus / ligam in excavations are available.

15. Any clear and final explanation on the difference between the last 4 souls (nashta deva) among the Suryavanshi 10 and the seed-souls which are fathers of the 12 belonging to the respective religions. Who finally becomes the direct Father of Abraham in the Silver Age - the soul connected with Islam out of the 10 Suryavanshi or the leader of the 12 Islami souls out of the entire Rudra Mala.

16. Does the seed soul of Arya Samaji that was identified in the advance gyaan in late 90-ties belong to the 10 Suryavanshi (meanig it would be the 9th one) or is it the leader of the 12 Arya Samaji in the Rudra Mala?

17. Which soul is Eve - Krishna or Lakshmi. In the end of the Treta Yuga it must be Lakshmi whose morals become corrupt, not Krishna, as Prajapita is with her. Well, how does the shooting take place?

18. What makes Buddhists and Christians believers in the Incorporeal one, not the corporeal one, as it has been taught in the Advance Course? Buddhists widely pray and worship idols of Buddha. Christians make pictures and idols of Corporeal God, and descript him as a Person, an old man with the beard and moustache, who walks, speaks, feels and so on.

19. Where and who is considered as Adam in Buddhism?

20. It has been taught in the course that the Bible is the scripture of the Christianity and it was written after Jesus Christ. Are there any evidence for this? According to the historical data the Gospel was written in II C AD and it was added to the Bible long after it was written. It is the real scripture that was written after Christ. The Bible, called also the OLd Testament, was written long before him. Is it possible that history is so falsified that the people who have been using the Bible - Jewish people who came long before the Christians - have been in darkness about this? So, finally, what is the scripture of Christias?

21. Is it possible to finally clarify the divisions in particular religions? It was taught in the Advance Course that Buddhism split in the mahayana and hinayana, Christianity in catholics and protestants, Muslims in shiah and sunna. However, the historical data show something different:

the main split in Buddhism - sthaviravada and mahasambhika (Buddhists don't accept that they are divided in mahayana and hinayana as mahayana contains the teachings of so called hinayana; Buddhists themselves say that the term hinayana is not correct and misleading)

the main split in Christianity - the eastern church and the western church (the division into catholics and protestants concerns only the western church)

the mai split in Muslim - shiah and sunna

what about Islam? The name 'Islam' in popular languages mean 'Muslim' and these two are used for the same thing - the Muslim religion establish in VII century. Why in Gyan is the word 'Islam' used in a different meaning? There must be a reason and it would be good to know it. Abraham has been described in history as the Father of three religions: Judaism, Christianity and Muslim. All three religions believe in him. Judaism was established by Abraham's son and grandson in Arabian Peninsula in the region of Palestine. Christianity was established among Jewish people in Arabian Peninsula and Muslim religion in the same peninsula. So the question is, how does Islam really split?

22. Who are real atheists (apart from the explanation 'those who do not know the Father'; there are few explanations of atheists in the Gyan, not necessary leading to the same conclusion)? This issue seems to be very confusing. In the Advance Course Russians are said to be atheists, despite the fact that 60-70% of Russians in the outside world are Christians belonging to the Eastern Church (the most orthodox type of Christianity). Who are those Russians that the course is speaking about? They were declared as those who create atom bomb. However, the atom bomb was created by Jewish (if we use the laukik criteria of religion) among Christians in the west (America). Now, regarding atheism, it was present in India since...? Among 6 classical philosophical schools one was purely atheistic; then, atheism was the fundament of buddism - they do not accept the existence of God and soul. Finally, if we look at facts - atheism among Christians was born among French and they were first who killed their kings, not Russians. So, all this seems to be rather unclear. The advise received by some students from the Head Office, was to reject the history and use only those facts that correspond with ShivBaba's explanations. To do this strong evidences are needed that could be shown to the public convincing them that the new way of thinking is based on something tangible and real.

If somebody has some materials related to these topics, points or whatever that could be used, please post them here.

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Re: Search

Post by arjun » 27 Oct 2010

Anu,
Om Shanti. I have gone through your questions. They seem to be well researched. I can attempt answering them to some extent. But it will take time.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Search

Post by shivsena » 28 Oct 2010

ANU wrote:

22. Who are real atheists (apart from the explanation 'those who do not know the Father'; there are few explanations of atheists in the Gyan, not necessary leading to the same conclusion)? This issue seems to be very confusing.
If somebody has some materials related to these topics, points or whatever that could be used, please post them here.
In Murlis, the words "nastik"(atheists) and "aastik" are often mentioned, but BKs and PBKs interpret these words differently.

BKs feel that, since they know the bindi Father shiv they are aastik, while the whole outside world is nastik.....PBKs feel that BKs are nastik and they are aastik as they have identified Father Ram.....but in reality all the 3 worlds are nastik and only 108 will be proved to be real aastik souls in the end (as they will have identified the no. 1 shivshakti(Mama Saraswati) as their combined spiritual parents)....this is my view.

shivsena.

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Re: Search

Post by ANU » 28 Oct 2010

In the Advance Course nastik are are those who don't know the Father (not only BKs, but also all PBKs who lose faith and turn back to the Father) and in the same Advanced Knowledge Russians are called nastik and Americans are called nastik. WHo are those Russians and who are those Americans? In the laukik world over 80% Americans are Christians (western churnch) and up to 70% of Russians are also Christians (eastern church). What is the definition of Russian and what is the definition of Americans? Sometimes teh word "Yadavas" is used for both Russianns and Americans and sometimes the same word "Yadavas" is used for Christians. So, if Russians are atheists and Yadavas at the same time, and Yadavas means Russians and Christians, all seems unclear and ambiguous. Further Yadavas are said to be those who are very rich, live in big buildings and drink alcohol. Russian in laukik drink a lot, but they definitelly do not live and never lived in high buildings. People there were and are very very poor.

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Re: Search

Post by shivsena » 28 Oct 2010

ANU wrote: What is the definition of Russian and what is the definition of Americans? Sometimes teh word "Yadavas" is used for both Russianns and Americans and sometimes the same word "Yadavas" is used for Christians. So, if Russians are atheists and Yadavas at the same time, and Yadavas means Russians and Christians, all seems unclear and ambiguous.
In Murlis, there is no mention of Russians or Americans....there is mention only of Europewasi yadavs, bharatwasi kauravs and gupt Pandavs.

So i feel, pertaining to the behad ka drama, yadavs are 9,00,000 BKs (who are rich and live in palatial houses)...kauravs are bharatwasis 16,000 PBKs (who are sleeping in kumbhakaran ki neendh thinking that Virendra Dev Dixit is Ram's soul)....and gupt Pandavs are 108 who will believe in the yartharth roop of ShivBaba ie Mama Saraswati and have Yoga with their combined ruhani Maa-Bap.

shivsena.

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Re: Search

Post by ANU » 29 Oct 2010

In Murlis, there is no mention of Russians or Americans....there is mention only of Europewasi yadavs, bharatwasi kauravs and gupt Pandavs.
The Sakar Murlis go together with the four pictures. In the picture of the Cycle the Russian and American flags have been clearly depicted in the stage of war. They are symbolised by two cats. Then, cats in the Advanced clarification have been connected with Christians who are angry and create atom bombs. However, there are many classes in which it has been said that atheists Russians create the atom bombs. So, it is hard not to raise the question: who finally in the Gyan is responsible for creating the atom and who is who among all these names.

Further, as the idea of Three Worlds says, everything what happens in one world happens in the other two. Three Worlds reflects each other, they are like concentric circles. This leads to a simple conclusion that the same things and patterns take place in each world, only the scale and manifest form is different. Those Christians, atheists, Russians, Yadavas, Kauravas and Pandavas should be present in all Three Worlds.

Finally, if we look at the history of the atom bomb, Oppenheimer, aJewish living in America, was the Father of the atom bomb. And lots of Jewish contributed to the entire process of creating the atomic weapon. So, if we look at all this and remember what is repeated in the Advanced Gyan, we may notice some vital points that are left open and need to be defined. Some names and terms have been used and repeated, but their meanings keep changing. This makes all issues unclear, in my view. I do not know in which meaning all these terms Russians, Americans etc. are used. Sometimes, it seems that they refer to some events in the general world (like in the case of the atom bomb); on the other hand, it has been said many times that Gyan applies only to the world of Copper Age world of the Brahmins.

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Re: Search

Post by shivsena » 30 Oct 2010

ANU wrote: Those Christians, atheists, Russians, Yadavas, Kauravas and Pandavas should be present in all Three Worlds.
on the other hand, it has been said many times that Gyan applies only to the world of Copper Age world of the Brahmins.
Dear anu.

Since you also believe that Gyan applies only to the Copper Age world of brahmins, then please give your views about who are yadav-kaurav-pandav in the world of brahmins.

Waiting for your views.
shivsena.

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Re: Search

Post by ANU » 30 Oct 2010

shivsena wrote:Since you also believe that Gyan applies only to the Copper Age world of Brahmins, then please give your views about who are yadav-kaurav-pandav in the world of Brahmins.
This issue is not clear to me at this moment. I used to think that I understand it, but some time ago when I again gathered all clarifications on this topic, it turned out that it is not so clear, beacuse terms from so called outside world are widely used in the Brahmin world, but without any clear definition what they mean. As far as I am concerned, it brings about confusion.

I also cannot understand the simple logic: Gyan is said to apply only to Copper Age world of the Brahmins. 1. Who are those Brahmins? Two worlds - BK and PBK. What about ex BKs and ex PBKs? Further, if Gyan applies to two worlds, why cannot it apply to the third world, if everything is united in the universe and everything influences everything and it has been said many times that whatever is noticed in the PBK world, it is in the BK world and in the outside world. Examples from the outside world are mentioned to confirm Gyan, yet Gyan is supposed not to apply to the outside world. I cannot get this.

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Re: Search for Answers.

Post by ANU » 30 Oct 2010

The information gathered on the Pandavas, the Kauravas and teh Yadavas


The Pandavas
1. those who know God, listen to him and obey him (clarifications AIVV, classes in www.PBKs.info)
2. those who do not have three feet of land (with an explicit indication at Brahma Baba and Prajapita, stated in clarifications clarifications AIVV, classes in www.PBKs.info)
3. 5 souls representing respectively: the Suryavanshis, the Chandravanshis, the Buddhists, the Sannyasis, the Sikhs in the Rudra Mala (the Advanced Knowledge Course. Kalpa Vriksha)
4. 8 deities (clarifications AIVV, classes in www.PBKs.info)


The Kauravas
1. those who know God, but do not listen to him (clarifications AIVV, classes in www.PBKs.info)
2. Arya Samaji (the Advanced Course, Kalpa Vriksha)
3. the Brahma Kumaris (clarifications AIVV, classes in www.PBKs.info)
4. those who make a lot of noise and eat dirt (clarifications AIVV, classes in www.PBKs.info)
5. those who rule (the Kauravas government)


The Yadavas
1. those who do not know God and do not listen or obey him (clarifications AIVV, classes in www.PBKs.info)
2. those who are on the left side of the tree: Islam, Christianity, Muslim, Atheists (The Advance Knowledge Course Kalpa Tree)
3. those who live in high buildings, drink a lot and are rich (clarifications AIVV, classes in www.PBKs.info)
4. those whose give birth to missiles (missiles emereg from their wombs) (clarifications AIVV, classes in www.PBKs.info)
5. those who invent atom bombs (clarifications AIVV, classes in www.PBKs.info)
6. Europeans

It seems to me that 'the Yadavas' is also said seperately for Russians and Americans in clarifications.


Then, in clarifications we come across:
1. Russia and America as two angry cats who will quarrel and explode bombs
2. Russians-Atheists who invent atom bombs
3. American-Christians who explode atom bombs

How to differentiate between the Kauravas (BKs) and the Yadavas, if all the religions, their roots are supposed to be among BKs?
How to know who are Russians and Americans among BKs and PBKs (if it is supposed to apply only to the Brahmins)?
What is the meaning of laukik terms used in Gyan?

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Re: Search for Answers.

Post by arjun » 30 Oct 2010

Anu wrote:1. What is the main scripture of Islam? The scripture should be written short after the coming of the religious Father. It was said many times in Gyan, in the Advance Course that Quran is the scripture of Islam. It would mean that Islam remained without its scripture for 1200 years, and only Muslims gave them the scripture. Then, it was mentioned that "Angel" is the scripture of Islam. However this name is unknown and no traces of such a scripture could be found so far.
May be it will be found later on.
2. Where are Islamis today? It was stated in clarifications that the Islamis became Muslims. However, there was also stated that the Jewish belong to the Islami branch. The Jewish have been living till today. Their sacred book is the TORA - the first five books of the Bible (wrote far earlier than the Quran). So, if Jewish are original Islamis livig today and they fight with Muslims, why has it been taught that the Islamis are Muslims and the sacred book of Islam is Quran?
Islamis used to worship idols. But after the advent of Muslims there is no Islami who still worships idols. So, in effect, all Islamis have become Muslims.
3. What is the sacred scripture of Buddhism? The Dhammapada or the Suttapitaka, whose part the Dhammapada is? Or Tripitaka as the Buddhists themselves believe?
Dhammapada.
4. How can the soul of Prajapita play the role of Tulsidas and Shahjahan as it was declared - Shahjahan lived in 1592-1666 and Tulsidas in 1532-1623.

5. How is it possible that Prajapita played the role of the last emperor of the Mughal Kingdom - Abu Zafar Sirajuddin Muhammad Bahadur Shah Zafar
October 1775 – 7 November 1862. At the same time, according to the clarification of The Tree of the Kalpa in the Advance Course, the soul of Prajapita is supposed to play the role of establishing the kingdom of Sikh, the role of the grand-Father of Lenin and some role among Arya Samaj. All these three roles overlap with the life of the Mughal last emperor.
a. the grandpa of Lenin (the Father's line) - 1770-1838 Nikolaj Vasil'evic Ulyanov
b. the establishment of Sikh empire - MAHARAJA RANJIT SIGH (1780-1839) The Lion of the Punjab
c. the role among Arya Samaji - ? when is the time for it?

6. According to the Advance Course Prajapita should play a part in the establishment of Christian empire in Bharat. There are two key personalities in this: Robert Clive (1725-1774) and Warren Hastings (1732- 1818) ----- how then can he play the role in the establishment of the Christian empire and the role of Lenin's grandpa and the role of the last emperor of Mughals and also.... next point

7. the role of Dayanand's grandfather, whose date of birth and death are unknown. Dayanand lived 1824-1883. Usually grandfathers are app 60 years elder than grandsons. So, he could be born app. 1740/1750. When and how can all these roles be played by one soul?
It is not just the soul of Prajapita but also the soul of Jagdamba (bari ma) who plays the role of establishing the kingdoms in various religions. Prajapita plays the role of establishing kingdoms in the leftist religions while Jagdamba plays the role of establishing the kingdoms in rightist religions.
Moreover, there could be inaccuracies in the history written by human beings.
8. It was taught in the Gyan that Prajapita was Sevakram in the previous birth and he was the husband of Dada's elder Sister. Sevakram and Dada's Sister as a married couple were Vishnu in their last birth and Sevakram was "bahanoi" for Dada. How is it possible, when Dada's Sister, named Haki Hathiramani was a wife of a businessman name Kismatram Hathiramani who was running a business with Japan; they lived in Calcutta, but in some other place, not together with Sevakram who lived in the same building where Dada had his shop.
When these issues were discussed with Baba long ago he had said that the genuineness of the facts mentioned in these documents may not be verifiable or reliable.
10. Om Radhe Mama was born in 1917. It makes her 19 years old in 1936. However, it has been taught that she was 14 in 1936 (5 years difference) and it made her pravritti with Dada impossible. 33 years difference - not so much. In Indian tradition very young girls, even children, were forced to get married with much elder men and they were widely accepted as normal couples.

11. Prajapita in this birth was in the pravritti with Jagadamba, is it correct? Does the age difference matter? She was said to be 9 in 1976. When she surrendered, she was not major. How was teh pravritti created then? Now, he is not anymore in the pravritti with Jagadamba and has changed the pravritti into the union with Yogini? Does the age matter or not in this case?
I think it does not matter. Take the example of Queen Lakshmibai of Jhansi and King Gangadhar Rao. There was a vast age difference between them.
12. What is the original sacred scripture of the Hindu religion - the Vedas or the Gita? The Gita was written long after the Veda. If we follow the rule 'old is gold' the scripture that was narrated earlier contain more true facts. So, finally, were the Vanis narrated through Dada the Vedas or the Gita? These two names are used for them in Gyan. Yet, the Vedas and the Gita are substantially different things.
The original sacred scripture of Hindu religion is Gita because Vedas are not clear.
Versions narrated through Dada Lekhraj are the Vedas whereas the versions narrated through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit constitute the Gita.
14. Any facts and data that idols of Shankar are widely found in excavations across the world will be appreciated. The facts and data for phallus / ligam in excavations are available.
From Greece and Mesopotamia.
15. Any clear and final explanation on the difference between the last 4 souls (nashta deva) among the Suryavanshi 10 and the seed-souls which are fathers of the 12 belonging to the respective religions. Who finally becomes the direct Father of Abraham in the Silver Age - the soul connected with Islam out of the 10 Suryavanshi or the leader of the 12 Islami souls out of the entire Rudra Mala.
The head of the group of 12 Islami souls among 108 will become the physical Father of Abraham (aadharmoort/base-like soul) and the seed of Islam among the nashtdev (among 12 suryavanshis) would become the grandfather.
16. Does the seed soul of Arya Samaji that was identified in the advance gyaan in late 90-ties belong to the 10 Suryavanshi (meanig it would be the 9th one) or is it the leader of the 12 Arya Samaji in the Rudra Mala?
Which soul are you talking about (who was identified in the late 1990s)?
17. Which soul is Eve - Krishna or Lakshmi. In the end of the Treta Yuga it must be Lakshmi whose morals become corrupt, not Krishna, as Prajapita is with her. Well, how does the shooting take place?
Adam is Prajapita / Ram's soul and Eve is Krishna's soul. But since it does not have a physical body of its own it is revealed through Jagdamba.
Head of not vijaymala is not Eve as is popularly believed by PBKs because Eve is famous only among the vidharmi religions whereas the head of vijaymala is just Bharatmata (Mother India).

The above replies are subject to approval by Baba.

The replies to rest of the questions will follow.

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Re: Search for Answers.

Post by ANU » 30 Oct 2010

Islamis used to worship idols. But after the advent of Muslims there is no Islami who still worships idols. So, in effect, all Islamis have become Muslims.
Then, why have Jewish people been classified as Islamic branch? The Jewish have never become Muslims - they fight with Muslims. They consider themselves as direct progeny of Abraham. Doesn't this fact matter at all? How can we say that they are not what they declare they are?
It is not just the soul of Prajapita but also the soul of Jagdamba (bari ma) who plays the role of establishing the kingdoms in various religions. Prajapita plays the role of establishing kingdoms in the leftist religions while Jagdamba plays the role of establishing the kingdoms in rightist religions.
Moreover, there could be inaccuracies in the history written by human beings.
Prajapita, not Jagadamba, was declared to play all the mentioned roles. It was clearly stated and declared for the soul of Prajapita. Of course that there might be mistakes in dating. However, we also need to use brains - Overlaps are too big. It is rather not possible that the last emperor of Mughals and all mentioned characters were living at some other time. The histrory of XVIII and XIX centuries are generally documented and it is hard to believe that all these role which were mentioned could have been played by one soul.

Regarding Tulsidas and Shahjahan. Tulsidas could have lived earlier, but then his life span would have overlaped with Babar's. He might have lived later, but what are the proofs?

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Re: Search

Post by shivsena » 31 Oct 2010

ANU wrote: This issue is not clear to me at this moment. I used to think that I understand it, but some time ago when I again gathered all clarifications on this topic, it turned out that it is not so clear, beacuse terms from so called outside world are widely used in the Brahmin world, but without any clear definition what they mean. As far as I am concerned, it brings about confusion.
The 3 1/2 years Sakar Murlis narrated by goddess of knowledge mataa Saraswati is an exam paper set by her intentionally to cause confusion in the minds of souls to make them numberwise ("yeh saraa buddhi ka khel hai")...rajdhani mein sab prakar ki atma chahiyee ie raja--rani--royal praja--sadharan praja--das-dasi etc. etc.
Every soul will read the Sakar Murlis, but each soul will interpret it differently and so will be his status, as Gyan has been called "Gyan-darpan"(mirror of knowledge)...If Gyan was narrated in an easy, clearly and non-confusing manner, then there would be no question of being numberwise.

shivsena.

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Re: Search for Answers.

Post by ANU » 31 Oct 2010

Arjuna Bhai

Thank you for your contribution. It a pity that you haven’t brought any tangible evidence. The easiest way of discussion is to reject something and to say that historical documents are false. Yes, it may be the fact, but saying so we need to proved it. If we say that something is false, or might be false, we need to present something tangible that makes us conclude that this and this is false. Otherwise, what will we achieve? I do not think that writing answers and giving it to approve is the right way. Should your answers be as good as God's answers? Why not to ask for clarification as it has been already done a long time ago? Why to ask for approving answers? This makes the entire process corrupt right from the beginning.

You have picked up some questions and tried to answer them out of context. Look, like in the case of 17 and 18 point. In AIVV it is taught that Mama Om Radhe was 14 years old in 1936 which made the pravritti impossible. First, why was it impossible if we observe something else in the history? Second how could she be 14, if she was born in 1917 and moreover she was the president of the Yagya business representing it outside officially by signing documents. How can a girl who is not major do this? If, as you said the age doesn’t matter, why wasn’t the pravritti with BB impossible? Why was the pravritti with Jagadamba possible?

Arjun Bhai, we need to read the entire description and refer to it as a whole. It is not enough to pick 1-2 sentences and answer them. Context and background are very important.

Further, it is in the Gyan where it is taught that the Gita was narrated through BB. So, the Gita or the Veda? Sometimes it is said that the Gita and sometimes it is said that the Veda. So, finally what was narrated? You said the Veda. ShivBaba sais the Gita and the Veda. “Original” means preceding all others in time or being as first made or performed; "the original inhabitants of the Americas"; "the book still has its original binding"; "restored the house to its original condition"; "the original performance of the opera"; "the original” being or productive of something fresh and unusual; or being as first made or thought of; "a truly original approach"; "with original music"; "an original mind"
It is clear that original refers to time. It was clarified in classes that the Vedas were first. Then Brahmana, Aranyakis, Upanishads --- the Gita was created long after them. This example was given in few classes when the origin of scriptures was discussed. So, the open question is – what is the original scripture of the Hindu? The original scripture, as it was clarified, contains the truth, while the offspring are more and more contaminated.


There are no known excavation in Greece where idols of Shankar were found. In the case of Mesopotamia it is not clear. Could you please bring some evidence – where exactly, what idols, how they look? It should be present all over the world.


How can the seed of Islam among nashtadev become the grandfather of Abram, if it is Prajapita who is to play this role – he is the grandfather of all fathers (Kalpa Tree)? So, according to the teachings, Nahor, the grandpa of Abram (in other words the Father of Terah who gave birth to Abram) is supposed to be played by Prajapita and Lakshmi is supposed to be his grandma. Then, the question is which soul plays the role of Terah – that out of nashta dev or out of the 12 islamis?

According to the historical limited sources, Terah’s family was producing idols – Abram was brought up in that environment. However, after the entering of the soul when he became Abraham, he challenged making idols and wanted to reject it. Then he traveled to the west. People already lived in those lands where he traveled. So they must have left paradise before its end. Worshiping idols was so strong among them that sooner or later they disobeyed Abraham.


If Lakshmi has nothing to do with the role of Eve, why was it explained in the advance knowledge that she is the first whose morals corrupt and leads Prajapita down?

You said that Baba said that the genuineness of the documents may not be verifiable? May not be or may be – this is not sure, as it was said. “May” mean 50% yes 50% no. However, what evidence has been brought that Sevakram was the husband of Dada’s sister? There are documents prepared by Om Radhe Mama in which Dada’s sister is listed – Haki Hathiramani. She was the wife of someone else, not Sevakram. The same thing was described by Nirmalshanta herself. Some articles of Nirmalshanta on this have distributed by AIVV. Sevakram is mentioned as a separate person.

Please, bring any evidence that those documents showing Sevakram as a separate person are false, and Sevakram was the husband of Dada’s sister. This would be very precious as there is a debate among few students on this issue also involving BKs.

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Re: Search for Answers.

Post by ANU » 31 Oct 2010

Every soul will read the Sakar Murlis, but each soul will interpret it differently and so will be his status, as Gyan has been called "Gyan-darpan"(mirror of knowledge)...If Gyan was narrated in an easy, clearly and non-confusing manner, then there would be no question of being numberwise.

Well, God is supposed to come to make things easy and clear and not to narrate things deliberately in confusing way to prove human souls that they are numberwise and confuse them more than they are already confused. This is what was repeated many times in classes. Further, it is not true that if something is narrated in a clear and simple way it wil make all listeners equal. It can be noticed in human schools - no even two pupils or students are equal even if teh issue is presented to them in the clearest and easiest way. So, it is really hard to believe that God - the ocean of knowledge would deliberately narrate knowledge in a confusing manner. It would make him worse and lower than man. The greatest philosophers and sages of teh human world used to teach and follow the path of simplicity - they highest things and the most complicated things can be explained in a simple and clear way; bringing about complications and confusions proves lack of knowledge. So, if it is God who is to make things confused, then who is to make them simple and clear?

I think that the 'reason why' is rather in the tamsi stage of the gyaan itself. Over 70 years of narrating Gyan. It has passed through so many explanations, interpretations and the number of terms used in it has increased a lot. As you know, the wrtitten form of Sakar Murli is also a form of falsification. You read the Sakar Murlis that passed through many hands. The direct narration creates the environment when the human mind can understand and pick up most. This is even confirmed by science. All other means of communication increase falsehood. The same sentence can have dozens meanings depending on voice, context, tone, rythm, body language etc. A piece of paper cannot be the source of knowledge as all these factors have been removed. Only words remained and you do not know whether these words were written in a right form or not. So relying on them as 'Gyan darpan' is a slippery matter. Relying on recordings is too slippery and in fact very similar to using scriptures as there are no chance for feedback and receiving clarification if something turns to be not clear.

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Re: Search for Answers.

Post by shivsena » 03 Nov 2010

ANU wrote:God is supposed to come to make things easy and clear and not to narrate things deliberately in confusing way to prove human souls that they are numberwise and confuse them more than they are already confused.
Dear ANU.

Let me ask you a frank Question.

Do you think that God Shiva has narrated the Sakar Murlis between 65-69 through DL and do you find them easy and clear to understand !!!!... and is God Shiva now giving the explanation of Sakar Murlis in the form of so-called advance knowledge through VD.

Please give your views.
shivsena.

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