Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

An open forum for all ex-BKs, BKs, PBKs, ex-PBKs, Vishnu Party and ALL other Splinter Groups to post their queries to, and debate with, any member of any group congenially.
mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 27 Oct 2010

WHEN, WHERE, WHO AND HOW Gita WAS SERMONIZED AND TO WHOM?

In this topic, I would like to put my effort to explain how God of Gita is actually not the physical personality number one divine human soul Sri Krishna. I will also try to explain the following slowly.

a)how lowkik sanscrit Gita does not have enough truth
b)How true Gita is the teachings of God through BKWSU (as per claims of BKWSU)
c)How teachings fo BKWSU resembles closest to even lowkik Gita.

Some initial questions

1)If Gita was sermonized at the end of Dwapur Yug/Age by Sri Krishna, then why the worst Kaliyug came? Dharma/religiousness in Kaliyug is lesser than in Dwapur Yug. If Sri Krishna did dharm_sthaapana (establishment of dharma), how can Kaliyug come next to Dwapur Yug?

Some say- “It is law of time. According to kalachakra (Time cycle), Kaliyug should come after Dwapur yug”. If so, then what is the significance of incarnation of God? Is his(God’s!) effort waste?

Some say- Sri Krishna came to reduce burden(population) on earth. If so- then what is need of preaching Gita? God could have created natural calamities to reduce population.

There is no need to come and teach religious matter to create a war. People fight among themselves. God need not preach dharma to make people fight. In fact, religious matters are to be taught to follow non violence.

If Sri Krishna’s purpose was to reduce population, why did he create millions of children from his 16108 queens/wives? [In Bhaagavat it is written crores of braahmins were appointed for education of Sri Krishna’s children created by his 16108 wives]

2)It is written in Gita- sarvadharman parityajya maamekum sharanam vraja, ahum twaa sarva paapebhyO, mokshayishyaami Maa shuchaha – (18-66) = Sacrifice all the religions and surrender to me. I will liberate you from all your sins.

Now- what all are the religions to be sacrificed? If all the religions are to be sacrificed, then what is the meaning of establishing dharma/religion? Because it clearly said in Gita- I have come to establish religion.

What all are the religions that did exist in Dwapur Yug? What is the religion the god of Gita wishes to establish? What are dharma, swadharma, saddharma, paradharma, adharma?

3) It is written in Gita- “Sacrifice all the religions and surrender to me. I will liberate you from all your sins”- (18-66).
Now- What all are the sins committed by Arjun? From this it implies that Gita knowledge is for those who commit sins. Was Arjun the highest sinner? Also- was Gita preached/needed for just one person? Was he alone sinner in the world?

OK- let us agree that “god spoke just to one person, but it is applicable to all”. In that case, what is the procedure to become free from sins? When did Arjun practice Yoga to purify himself? Will physical war (violence) increase sins or reduce?

Were those sins due to just of that one birth of Arjun or is it the total accumulated sins including his previous births? In which birth did he committed most sins? Should we consider all (or at least higher percentage) of his actions till he listened to Gita were wrong? In that case, should not this be said very clearly?



4)It is said- Ahimshaa Paramodharma (= Non violence is the highest religion). Then how can god of Gita whose duty is to establish dharma can teach/direct to do physical war on others? Because for a yogi, peaceful atmosphere and mind is necessary. Can establishment of dharma be achieved by physical war? If for a kshatriy physical war is his duty, is knowledge of Gita applicable to kshatriya category only? In that case, authority of Gita should have been more in the hands of kashatriyaas than braahmins, is it not? [but today braahmins read/preach it more than anybody else!].

Is warfield right place to give education? If yes, then it clearly implies that it is only for kshatriyaas. Other varnas need not study Gita knowledge, is it not? Also kshatrya varna/sect should have been given the highest place.

There is a saying - “braahmano devataya naamah”= Salutes to braahmins who become deities or salutes to braahmins and deities. In the varnas, kshatriya is given next place to braahmins and deities.

5)It is said- Arjun got attachment with his relatives at war field. Just think- How many such incidents have occurred so far? Usually one gets furious against his enemy or afraid at war field. Is it logical to get attachment at war field? Also Arjun had fought sigle handedly against kourava army when he was in disguise in the form of Bruhhannala. Why at that time he had no attachment?

A note:- nearly 15 questions are already ready. But I am not posting now to reduce length of this post.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 28 Oct 2010

6)Does knowledge of Gita say to fight against one’s own brothers? Or does it say the maximum possibility of fight will be always with one’s own brothers!? That is- if somebody becomes my enemy, the highest probability is they would be my own brothers? Or is knowledge of Gita applicable to only such a few cases where one gets attachment with his cheating brothers?

There is no any incident mentioned in scriptures about Kouravas troubling the citizens of the country. The kouravas had enmity or hatredness just over their brothers, pandavas. Then how can that situation be climax (dharmaglaani)? If kouravas did injustice just to pandavas, is it correct to destroy all the people?

In case, if all the people of the country were irreligious, is it correct just to kill just male category? Were women category religious? In the war, fight was shown just among the male category.

7)God is incorporeal (bodyless). Sri Krishna is corporeal(physical personality). Then how can Sri Krishna be God? God is neither male nor female. But Sri Krishna is male! In Gita, it is written Bhagavaanuvaach. Bhagavaanuvaach means versions of God(bhagavaan). When Sri Krishna has no eligibility to be called as Bhagavaan, how can he be god of Gita?

8)If Sri Krishna , Sri Rama, etc all are avatars God, then even words of Sri Rama should have been as famous as bhagavaanuvaach. There should have been another scripture which consists of Bhagavaanuvaach (versions/words of Ram).

But why words of Ram are not called as bhagavaanuvaach? Why not even words of Sri Krishna during other incidents are not as famous as bhagavaanuvaach? In that case, even the cry of that pig should be considered as Bhagavaanuvaach! [It is said- one of the ten avtaars of Vishnu is pig- the third avtaar].

9)Just see- In India, the oldest temples are Shiv temples. The glory of Shiv temples is much more than other temples. Even in count, the number of Shiv temples is highest. Shiv temples can be seen even in hills as well as village/town/cities. People take very high risk to visit Shiv temples than any other temples. All these imply Shiv is higher than SriKrishna.

Even in Mahabharat, it is said- Sri Krishna did tapasya of god Shiv and from that he got the highest weapon sudarshan chakra from Shiv. There is no mention of god Shiv meditated(did pooja or tapasya of) someone. When Shiv is definitely greater than Sri Krishna, his scripture(biography) should be greater than that of Sri Krishna, is it not? Since Gita is the highest scripture (sarvashaastramayi shiromani = mother of all the scriptures), Shiv only can be its sermonizer, is it not?

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 29 Oct 2010

10) It is written in Gita- “Sacrifice all the religions and surrender to me. I will liberate you from all your sins”- (18-66.
Sri Krishna belongs to a particular religion (Yaadav kul). So how can he say –sacrifice all the religions? Is it ever said yaadav kul is greatest among all the religions or varnas?

It is said- “braahmano devataya naamah”. Braahmins and deities are considered to be highest among the different varnas/sects. No person from Sri Krishna’s religion (Yaadavas) is famous or worshipped (except very few like Balaram who is considered to be his blood relative (own brother) . If Sri Krishna’s religion as written in scripture is the best, yaadavaas should have been the best, is it not? But in fact, yaadavaas are shown as highly egoist, low character people in scriptures. Then what is the religion of Sri Krishna?

If you say- Sri Krishna is above religion matters, then what about his body? He has his own body. He has parents! He got body from them. So definitely he is bound by the religion of his parents, is it not?

Still even if we take it for granted that Sri Krishna is above all the religions, he got body just to discharge his duties, then one should not remember body of Sri Krishna during meditation (Yoga), is it not? But people remember physical body of Sri Krishna during meditation.

It is clearly mentioned in Gita to sacrifice body consciousness. If we remember a bodily personality, can we become free from body conscious?

In Gita, it is said- “remember ME(God) always in every action”. Sri Krishna is shown as died just from an arrow of hunter. So body of Sri Krishna really perished. So how can God’s real form be that of Sri Krishna? God is called as truth. So his form can never change, is it not? When the body is perishable, then why we should remember perishable things?

Many people say- God has no name and form. Then what is the importance of name and form of Sri Krishna? Why do they direct to chant name of Sri Krishna and worship his physical personality/form?

11)Was Sri Krishna bound by Laws of Karma?:- Some say- yes, he was; because he was in human form. So- did he experience pain while dying? It was shown that he died by a hunter’s arrow. But it was shown that he did many miracles. Then it does not look right to say that he was bound by Laws of Karma.

If he was not bound by Law of Karma, then can there be any use by studying his biography of actions like killing many people and doing miracles? It is said- He killed many irreligious people. So what is our duty? Should we also begin to kill such people? Of course, he had powers to do miracles. What about us?

If he himself comes to kill bad people and rescue good people, then does not that imply that there is no need to teach anything for the good people? In that case, what is the need of preaching Gita? If following Gita uplifts us automatically, then what is the need of killing so many people? If it does not uplift us and there is still need of God to kill such people, then what is the use of Gita?

We study biography of great people either to follow them or follow or implement their research activities (what they gave to society). For example we study biography of Mahatma Gandhi to adopt at least some of the values he had in his life. We study biography of Isaac Newton to bring his inventions to practical so that it can make life better.

Now- see the biographies of personalities of heroes in the scriptures. Sri Krishna did miracles. There were brahmaastras, varunaastras, paashupataastras, etc. Just by chanting some mantra a grass would become some great astra! Bhim (= one of the pandavas) had power of 1000 elephants, etc, etc.

Now- by studying such stories are we going to get such powers? What is the teaching they gave us? Are their teachings and actions (miracles and extra ordinary power) similar to one another? It is said- one’s words should be according to his actions. But there is no coincidence in their teachings and actions. Then what benefit we will get from them?

[Of course we can enjoy it like a movie or novels. And people are doing the same]

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 30 Oct 2010

12)Is Gita scripture of just Hindu religion? If yes, why not the word Hindu mentioned in Gita?

If Gita is applicable to all the religions, in which category other religions (Eg:- Muslim, Christian, etc) should be placed among different varnas (braahmin, kshatriy, vaishy, shudr)? Also how can the other religions be convinced that Gita is applicable even to them? Because all the religions believe god is incorporeal. They do not believe corporeal Sri Krishna as God.

Some say Hindu is not a religion, but it is way of living. But then also why there is no name of Hindu is Gita? So- does it mean Gita has no value for Hinduism? Is not Gita teaching is for way of living?

13)In Gita, it is said- “Paritraanaaya saadhunam (4: 08) = I come to protect saadhus”. Now who are Sadhus? The meaning of sadhu is one who does saadhnaa (effort). Then how can today’s saadhu/saints who put effort to reach god help us? Does not that imply these saadhus are also ignorant, weak and sinners?

Some people believe Sadhu means one who is pure and honest. In that case, why do they need protection of god? Why should god of Gita say- I come to protect Sadhus. [Because god’s protection is necessary only for impure/weak people, is it not? Doctor is necessary for patients and not for healthy people]. So God is most needed for adharmis and impure people, is it not?

There have been countless number of Sadhus/saints in India. (There were many good saints also). Still why India lost its independence? How come other religion/countries got capacity to loot India’s health and wealth? That too they looted even from temples!

Some say sadhus are already protected. Then do we need Gita to follow or the sadhus? Does not this imply that even these sadhus are ignorant and irreligious today?

14) Scriptures say, “Now it is just beginning of Kaliyug. The life of Kaliyug is 432000 years. Just around 5000 years of Kaliyug is crossed”. That is, according to them Sri Vishnu incarnated as Sri Krishna 5000 yrs before from today/present and preached Gita. That was eight avatar. It is also said that the ninth avatar was that of Buddha. It is known that Buddha’s time was around 2250 yrs before. So did dharma established by Sri Krishna got degraded just in 2750 (5000 – 2250) years and god had to incarnate as Buddha?

OK, let us agree.

Even then- according to them Kaliyug will exist for 427,000 years (=432000 – 5000) from today.

They say God will incarnate as KALKI at the end of Kaliyug. Now the question here is- did dharma created by avatar Sri Krishna got degraded in just 2750 years and that created by Buddha will sustain for 427000 years?

OK, let us agree even this.

In that case, is avtar Buddha more powerful than Sri Krishna! If yes, do/will Gita followers suggest worshiping Buddha more than Sri Krishna?

Not only that- If Buddha was ninth avatar according to Hinduism, then how come Buddhism got named as separate religion and has separate scripture?

15)It is written in Mahabharat that Sri Krishna married daughter of Jambavant. Jambavant is shown in Silver Age during period of Rama. Sri Krishna is shown at the end of Dwapur Age. Now the question arises- what is the life span of Jambavant’s daughter? Can she live for one full age (from end of Silver Age to evd of Dwapur age)? Did she remain virgin for the whole age and then married to Sri Krishna at the end of Dwapur age?

OK, let us agree so. Even then was she young lady while marrying? If yes, then what is the period of her marriage life? Because Sri Krishna died very soon. How did she die? What about history of other queens of Sri Krishna?

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 03 Nov 2010

16)When it is said- “sambhavaami yuge2 = I come in every age”. then there should be just four avtaars(incarnations), is it not? Because there are only four ages.

17)It is said Vyyaas Bhagavaan… But in Mahabharat, it is shown that Vyas failed in an incident but his son succeeded and his son is given higher place than Vyaas. Then how can he be called as Bhagavaan?

18)Some say- “The 16108 ladies were those who had been under bondage of Narakaasur. No one was ready to marry them. So Krishna married them”. If that is the case, then why Sri Ram sent his innocent wife back to forest?- that too- after passing in the test (agni pareeksha)? They say Ram did so to respect kul maryaadaa of the citizens or respect the society, something like that.

So- whom, should we follow- Krishna or Ram? Can such a Ram be called as Maryaadaa purushottam? Because while marrying the husband takes oath that he will take care of his wife in righteous way. Now was Ram’s acts towards his wife were according to dharma?

OK- let us agree that what Ram did was as according to dharma. Then do we need such a Ram rajy? It is also shown in Ramayan that Ram fought with his own children. How can such a rajy(kingdom) be praise worthy?

19)It is said in scriptures that - the ashareeravani spoke that- the eighth child of Devaki will kill Kansa (Devaki’s elder brother). Hearing this Kansa imprisoned her with her husband. Now why did he put them together? He could have imprisoned separately, is it not?

OK- let us agree that he was a fool. Now- when Devaki was seeing her every child being killed one after the other by Kansa, how can she think of bearing child? Devaki and her husband continued to do sex in prison!?

Just think- A satwik person of put in jail, he is not likely to do such actions. But the couple continued till the eighth delivery. Is this part of ancient culture of India? What spiritual power a person will get by reading/following such ugly stories?

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 03 Nov 2010

If we think sensibly-

1)GOD CANNOT INCARNATE IN EVERY YUG/AGE. HIS INCARNATION PERIOD CAN BE ONLY AT THE END OF Kaliyug:-

IF GOD comes in every age, it becomes illogical. Because the purpose of incarnation of god is to establish dharma. Hence after his incarnation, we should go back to the previous yug/age. Actually we should go back to the first age, Satyug. Because dharma is best in Satyug and worst during and of Kaliyug.

Also note that God cannot incarnate till the end of Kaliyug. Because dharma does not become fully degraded till end of Kaliyug. So how can he come (=how is it logical for God to incarnate)? Usually a house is not destroyed in its middle of the age. The whole of its life span is utilized before it is destroyed. Similarly god will have to wait till the near end of Kaliyug is reached.

[It is said in scriptures-- Religion/dharma has four(100%) legs in the beginning of Satyug (Golden Age) and three legs(75%) in the beginning of Silver Age. In the beginning of Copper Age, it reduces to two(50%) and in the beginning of Iron Age, it reduces to one(25%). At the end of Iron Age, it hardly exists. That is the time when all the religions become irreligious].

Supporting points:-

a)God is called as Purifier. Hence after his incarnation, pure (golden) age should get established.

b)God is called sarv ka sadgati-daata (Benefactor of all). So God will have to come when the population is maximum. That is- when all the souls are present in Corporeal world. It would be during the end of Kaliyug only. Because before incarnation of God no one can go back(since to get sadgati(= true status or good status), God’s company is needed)

Also sarv(all) should be in durgati(degraded state) when God descends. Today we can see it. Even the human Gurus have degraded and are caught by ego and also by worldly laws of Kaliyugi politicians.

Just see- a Kingdom becomes weak when the King is weak. So religion also becomes irreligious when its heads become weak or irreligious, is it not? Today we can see the religious heads are weak and adharmis. So God comes when sarv (= all, even these human gurus) are in durgati (degraded state).

[some more points will be posted in next post]

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 08 Nov 2010

c) Significance of “sarvadharmaan parityajya maamekum sharanam vraja, ahum twaa sarva paapebhyO, mokshayishyaami Maa shuchaha – (18-66) = Sacrifice all the religions and surrender to me. I will liberate you from all your sins”.

In scriptures there is no mention about what all were the different religions during the end of Dwapur Age. Hence it implies that the Gita written is not applicable for that time. That is- it implies Gita is incorrect. But it can/may imply that some event had occurred long before (say - in previous Kalpa= time cycle) and Gita is an attempt to recollect that event. Since there is obviously long gap (-explained shortly) between the event(establishment of dharma = incarnation of God) and writing of its scripture, there could be error.

Note that- if there is more than one religion at a time, it implies that all those religions are weak. For example- a lady needs just one husband. If she has two, it implies that both are weak or degraded. So- if there is more than one religion it implies all those religions are irreligious.

Also note that when there is true religion, there cannot be scripture. Because a healthy person will not have medicine/scripture at home. One who has fear or experienced at least some ill health only will keep medicine. It is said – one realizes unhealthiness (irreligiousness) only after losing 50% of health. So it is clear that scriptures can come only after Dwapur Yug when dharma degrades to below 50%.

So- Now- if we assume that time is cyclic and has four ages, in the first half of the cycle, religion is religious (= religion is above 50%), there can be only one religion and it should not have scripture. That should be in Satyug (Golden Age) and Treta Yug (Silver Age). After Copper Age, the religion decreases to below 50% and then the husband (the first religion) becomes weak. Then only other religions can take birth. Else when the first religion would be good and powerful and no one could be attracted/converted into other religions. If the first husband is powerful, wife won’t get deviated.

So this implies that God will create just one religion and other religions by human beings. Also God will not rule the world, because in that case, the world would never get degraded. So- God will descend at the end of Kaliyug and establish saddharma = true religion and return back and keep quite. This will put an end to Kaliyug and transform it into Satyug and that true religion will begin from Satyug.

Since from Satyug God is absent the true/best/first religion starts degrading. Now- when time reaches/enters into Dwapur Age, other religions come one by one. Since they already had disease in the beginning itself (there was violence from the very beginning of some religions and they were never divine),. They needed scripture immediately for their existence/maintenance. So followers of those religions created/wrote books of their religion. Since they had written very soon after the period of their religious fathers, they had enough data with them and hence errors were less.

Also since by Copper Age, even the first religion also had got degraded, they also write scripture of their religion. But two ages had already passed and they had no enough correct data to write. So there would be maximum confusion. SO- IT IMPLIES THAT THE SCRIPTURE OF THE FIRST/BEST RELIGION WOULD BE PREPARED MUCH LATER AFTER ITS ESTABLISHMENT AND HENCE WOULD CONTAIN MAXIMUM NUMBER OF ERRORS. So- there is long gap between the establishment of the religion and the scripture.

Since any scripture is imperfect (since all get formed only after Copper Age), no real guidance is obtained and all go descending and time of climax reaches by the end of Kaliyug. Then God descends and gives true knowledge. But God is bodyless and hence needs a body to give knowledge. He needs to enter a person’s body and speak/give knowledge through mouth of the person. Since God does work for new Time Cycle/ Kalpa this work of transformation is also called as creation. Hence the name of the person in whom God entered is called as Brahma. God’s entrance in a human body is called as divine birth of God and celebrated as Shivratri with most simplicity.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 08 Nov 2010

[A note:- If scriptures are enough to get sadgati, then God will lose his importance! Hence it is clear that just scriptures cannot bring sadgati. And when God needs to descend, then in front of God, the scriptures will have no value. So it is waste to find God just from scriptures].

Those who have listened to Godly knowledge at the end of Kaliyug only will get transformed into deities (will attain a state of dharma more than 50%) and get entrance to heaven.

Shiv is also known as mahaakaal = the greatest death. God is bodyless. When he comes to this world and completes his role, natural calamaties and civil and atomic war will take place and all the souls get death (liberation from impure bodies). Please note that Krishna is never called as mahaakaal. There is temple Mahakaaleshwar in Ujjain which is one of the 12 jyotirlingams of Shiv temples.

In Mahabharat, huge destruction and mass death is shown. But Krishna is never called as mahaakaal. Why? This also implies that Shiv is more near to the post of God of Gita than Krishna.

All the religions know date of establishment of their religions and their respective religious fathers. But Indians do not know their religion. They are even confused about Hindu- some say Hinduism is not a religion, some say it is way of living, etc. This also implies that the present Gita of sanscrit is false or cannot give enough truth.

Today there are many religions. Also all these religions have become irreligious. They fight in the name of God. They do not have any power in them. All the religions have expectation from others. They even beg from politicians for their existence. That is- there is no power in religion today. They also fight or do violence on one another.
Significance of the shloka 18-66= “sacrifice all the religions and surrender to me”.

Since it is wise to sacrifice ego all these religions (Hindu, Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, etc)- because all are weak and irreligious. So this clearly implies god of Gita- the real God descends/incarnates during the end of Kaliyug and directs to sacrifice all these religions and surrender to him. This clearly implies no religion or scripture created by human beings can help human beings.

d)Significance of “dharmasamsthaapanaarthaaya,... = I come to establish dharma”. God comes to establish SANAATAN religion. The word sanaatan is very famous in Hinduism. But Hindus cannot explain its meaning. On one hand they say sanaatan is the one which is oldest but they say- Sanaatan Hindu religion.
Indians say- SANTAN Hindu RELIGION. But the word Hindu is given by Persians and hence not ancient. So how can the saying SANAATAN Hindu RELIGION is correct?

{BKs’explanation:- The full name is AADI SANAATAN DEVI DEVTAA DHARM, also called as DEITY religion. Sanaatan = santaan = children.
All are children of God, but those who realize him are his first(= aadi) children. So ASDDDharm means religion of the first children of God. The other religions are religions of next children of God, because they realize God later -after too late board = at the time of destruction].


e)Even in this world, the work of VIPs is special. Their efficiency will be high. Even a visit of the President to a village can develop/help it a lot. But if we believe God(the highest VIP) comes during every age but the world goes on degrading, it is not only foolishness but also insulting our most beloved god Father.
----- ------

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 08 Nov 2010

Still more things are to be written. But it will take some time to write because this is not a simple and small topic.

I will be out of station for next two weeks, so will be back after that.

In remembrance of ShivBaba thanks to all

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

2)CAN GOD HAVE DIFFERENT NAMES?

Post by mbbhat » 11 Nov 2010

2)CAN GOD HAVE DIFFERENT NAMES?

Indian scriptures say god takes different forms during different incarnations. Sometimes they say God has no name and forms. They say chant god’s name (naam kaa smaran) and remember him (dhyaana). All these statements violate one another. Let us try to find truth.
Let us discuss about name of RICE. In English, it is called rice. In Hindi, CHAAVAL, in Kannada language, it is called as AKKI. Why does its name change? BECAUSE IT HAS NO AUTHORITY OVER ITSELF. SOME OTHER PEOPLE USE/OWN IT. It becomes property of other people. Hence those people name it according to their wish. So each one calls it by his choice. Sometimes different religion people may call it by different names.

Parents keep name of their children, because the child is owned by them. But when the child grows up, it can change its name according to its wish. See the difference!

Note that name of a person does not change as language changes. It remains same even in different religions. A person whose name is John will have same name in any language or religion. Because his authority is more than that of the language.

But when a person changes his religion, his name changes! Because he bowed/surrendered himself to the other religion. He respected the other religion. He gave up his authority. Hence his name changes.

So it is clear that the name of the highest authority cannot be changed by lower authorities. GOD IS THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY. HENCE NO HUMAN BEING CAN NAME GOD. ALSO SINCE THERE IS NO CHANGE IN GOD (LIKE GETTING CONVERTED INTO OTHER RELIGIONS, ETC), HIS NAME ALSO SHOULD REMAIN CONSTANT. HENCE GOD SHOULD HAVE ONE PERMANENT ETERNAL NAME WHICH CAN NEVER CHANGE. THAT NAME IS SHIV.

Even though no one has right to name God and God can have only one name, today we can see different people/religions call God by different names. THIS CLEARLY IMPLIES NO RELIGION (OR ALL BUT EXCEPT ONE) KNOWS GOD’S REAL NAME!

SUPPORTING POINTS FOR THE NAME SHIV:-


a)The word SADAA_SHIV (= always Shiv) is famous. Sadaa (= always= constant= eternal) is not joined with any name other than Shiv. It is never said SADAA_KRISHN or SADAA_Ram. Hence it is clear that Shiv always remains as Shiv. He does not change at all. Hence he is truth. This also implies Sri Krishna and Sri Ram do not have eternal existence in the same name and form. That is- since they come in birth and deaths, their name and forms change. But Shiv is above birth and deaths.

b)The word Shivohum (= I am Shiv) is famous. There is no any other word that says Krishnohum (= I am Krishna), Ramohum(I am Ram). So this implies Shiv had come to this world and has spoke, “I AM SHIV”.

For what cause it may be? All the souls might have forgotten real God. Hence Shiv might have to say- “My dear children, I am Shiv, I am Shiv”. Like parents teach their small children, I am your Father, mother, etc, even god needs to say, “I am your Godfather”, because we people forget God totally and become irreligious due to bodyconsciouness.

The word Shivohum also implies that- Shiv does not take births like Sri Krishna and Sri Ram. In fact, there is no need to say “I am Sri Krishna, I am Sri Ram” for Sri Krishna and Sri Ram. Because they had taken birth from their parents. Their parents will call their names, you are Sri Krishna, you are Sri Ram, etc. By the time they grew up, many would already know their names.
Hence it would be foolishness if Sri Krishna or Sri Ram begins speaking I am Sri Krishna, I am Sri Ram all of a sudden (when they get matured) . But Shiv does not enter mother’s womb. He enters a person’s body. Hence he needs to say- I am Shiv (Shivohum).

Moreover Ram, and Krishna are visible personalities, but Shiv is invisible(bodyless). So there is need to remind more. Also it is necessary to remember just one Shiv.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 11 Nov 2010

c)Shiv Jayanti (birth = incarnation of Shiv) of is also known as Shiv_raatri. The word raatri (night) is not connected to any other person than Shiv . This implies Shiv came in the deep night of ignorance.

[Even though birth of Krishna is shown in night, it is celebrated during day]

d)Glory of Shiv temples is the highest and hence Shiv is the highest. No temple of Sri Krishna or Sri Ram can be equal to even 10% of that of Shiv (Eg:- Somnath).

e)The word RUDR YAJN, JNAAN YAJN is famous. There is no name KRISHN YAJN. This also implies that Rudr (another name of Shiv) is one who can give jnaan (knowledge). Hence the highest knowledge which is Gita can be given by just Shiva only. How can then Sri Krishna be god of Gita?

f)Shiv is called as trinetri (the one who has third eye). No other deity has this title. The third eye is significance of eye of knowledge or wisdom. So authority over knowledge can be with Shiva. How can that be with Sri Krishna?

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 13 Nov 2010

g)In scriptures it is also said- UPA_NAYAN. Another name for Upanayan is BRAHMOPADESH. Upanayan is a ritual done for male child in braahmin caste (usually between 5 to 12 yrs of age). It is also said that till Upanayan, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BRAAHMIN CHILD AND Shudra CHILD. It is after Upanayan only even the braahmin child gets eligibility to be called as braahmin. It is believed that it is during upanayan the child receives highest knowledge and that is called as Brahmopadesh.

In fact, Upa = extra, nayan= eye. Upanayan means extra eye means third eye of knowledge. Now Shiva only is called as trinetri. So without him, how can Upanayan will be complete?

Upanayan is also called as Brahmopadesh. So it implies that the third eye is given through Brahma. So it clearly implies that Shiva only can give third eye(knowledge) and he needs Brahma to give that. This implies that Shiva is bodyless and hence needs a corporeal body of Brahma to give/speak knowledge. It also clearly implies that till the third eye is received from Shiva through Brahma nobody can be eligible for the title braahmin.

Also it is said braahmins are created through mouth of Brahma. What reply the lowkik/worldly braahmins can give to this? It is good if they explain how they are created from mouth of Brahma? Do they believe and feel that their Father is Brahma?

Also during upanayan, the Brahmin child takes oath that he will maintain purity in his thoughts, speech and actions. Even the Gita directs the same. So do not these clearly imply that Shiva incarnates through Brahma and gives knowledge which is mentioned in bhagavadgita?

[After all, why a child should take oath on purity and how can it take? Because it is already pure, and it does not know the difference between purity and impurity. So how this oath/ritual taken in lowkik upanayan is meaningful?]

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 13 Nov 2010

Also do lowkik braahmins agree that until upanayan their children are equal to a Shudra? Do they at least give same respect for a Shudra and child of a braahmin until he has not undergone upanayan/brahmopadesh?

[In fact, this resembles very close to Bk philosophy. BKs believe until one undergoes UPANAYAN, there is no difference between braahmins by birth (lowkik braahmins) and lowkik shudras. Also they take oath to follow purity in their life and believe that we have new birth through mouth of Brahma from Shiv. And BKs give higher importance to other BKs than their lowkik children or relatives. They consider even their lowkik children as shudras if they do not get spiritual knowledge (BK philosophy)].

h)It is said the process of creation occurs through Brahma = It is said creation through Brahma. It is never said creation through Sri Krishna. So Brahma and/or the one who does the process of creation through Brahma should be the authority, is it not? Creation means transformation/purification. For that water of knowledge is needed. Hence the highest knowledge can be given by god through Brahma only, is it not?

i)Shiva is also known as one who can drink or drank poison, one who burnt lust. He is also called as paapakateshwar(one who cuts sins). Bhagavadgita also says- to sacrifice lust and all the other vices(poison = vices). Bhagavadgita aims to burn sins (18-66). Krishna has no glory or praise like paapakateshwar, etc. So do not even these also imply Shiva only can be God of Gita?

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 20 Nov 2010

j)In scriptures, it is said- “Brahma devtaaya namaha, Vishnu devtaayaa namaha, Shankar devtaaya namaha, Shiva Parmaatmaaya namaha” = Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are deities and Shiva (only) is GOD. Namaha (salutes) to each.
Now- When Vishnu is deity and not God(as mentioned above) and it is said Sri Krishna is 8th incarnation of Vishnu. When Vishnu himself is a deity, even Sri Krishna who is his incarnation also can be just a deity only, is it not?

How can incarnation of a deity be god? So this implies Sri Krishna is not Bhagavaan (God). So, how can words in Gita(Bhagavaanuvaach) be words of Sri Krishna?

The above is reply is given from logical thinking.
-------------- -----------

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3230
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Brahmakumaris and Bhagavadgita

Post by mbbhat » 20 Nov 2010

NOW LET US SEE WHO IS GOD OF Gita ACCORDING TO SHLOKAS OF Gita ITSELF.

a)Avyaktam vyakti maapannam, manyante maama buddhayaha, param bhaava majaananto, mamaavyaya manuttamam – (7-24) = Those whose intellect is weak, think/feel that me who is Avyakt(invisible) became vyakt(corporeal, visible) later.
That means less intellect people consider that god who is invisible got projected as corporeal and visible personalities like Sri Krishna, Sri Ram, pig, fish, etc. (as mentioned in dashaavataar= ten incarnations). From the above shloka, it is clear that god can never be seen through physical eyes of body. But Sri Krishna can be seen with physical eyes. Hence he cannot be god of Gita.

[The above shloka says God is incorporeal and will be incorporeal all the time. BKs also believe the same. BKs believe that God’s form is point and His form always remains as point. He does not take body of his own, he never takes physical birth from parents.]

b)kavi puraanamanu ... -(08-09) = (God of Gita) is knowledgeful, has no beginning, EVEN SMALLER THAN A MOLECULE. He is far from (beyond) tamas(darkness).

Is Sri Krishna smaller than molecule? Definitely not. So god of Gita is the incorporeal point of divine light and might, just a tiny point who is represented as a point in middle of Shivling. Even soul is a point. We put a dot at our forehead which represents soul(me). When soul is a dot, even Supreme Soul(God) also should be a dot. Is it not? So Sri Krishna’s physical personality has no value at all and is not told to remember by God of Gita.

c)Dwaavimow purushou loke, ksharaashchaakshara eva cha, ksharaha sarvaani bhootaani, kootasthokshara uchyate –(15-16)
= in this world, there are two puruhas/things one is perishable and the other is imperishable. In those, the bodies of all the living creatures are perishable and the living soul is eternal.

Uttama purushastanyaha paramaatmetyu da hrutaha, yo lo katrayamaa vishya bibhartavyaha ISHWARAHA –(15- 17)
= There is one more thing that is different than both of these two. That protects and nourishes everything. He is eternal and is Ishwar.

Yasmaat ksharamateetohum aksharaadapi chottamaha, atosmi loke vede cha prathitaha purushottamaha – (15-18)
= Because I am totally different than the perishable body and even than the imperishable soul. Hence I am well known as purushottam (best among all the souls = Supreme Soul. Purusha = soul) in world as well as in vedas.

From these three shlokas, it is very clear that god is totally different than body and all the other souls. So it implies there is no need to remember perishable body (of even Sri Krishna). Also it is mentioned that I AM ISHWAR (= SHIV AND NOT Krishna)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests