AK crazy story about peacock

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pbkindiana
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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by pbkindiana » 29 Apr 2011

sachkhand wrote:
And since AIVV is claiming Veerendra Dev Dixit to be the part of GodFather it has to be carefully analysed and understood.
Just want to inform generally that Baba Dixit has never claimed or declared that He is Shiva's appointed Chariot or Prajapita or Shankar or Ram. When a question was raised that whether He is Ram, Baba Dixit replied that --I am not Ram.

Based on AK teachings, the PBKs realized that He is the personified form of ShivBaba and AIVV expanded on the basis of the faith and belief that Baba Dixit is the appointed Chariot of Shiva.

So whoever wants to accuse Baba Dixit that He declared himself as the personifed form of ShivBaba, please provide the concrete proof of His acclamation.

indie.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by ANU » 29 Apr 2011

indie wrote:Just want to inform generally that Baba Dixit has never claimed or declared that He is Shiva's appointed Chariot or Prajapita or Shankar or Ram. When a question was raised that whether He is Ram, Baba Dixit replied that -- I am not Ram. So whoever wants to accuse Baba Dixit that He declared himself as the personifed form of ShivBaba, please provide the concrete proof of His acclamation.

A quotation from a discussion in which I took part in Farrukhabad:
"A student asks: Baba, what should be told when someone says that Baba doesn't make efforts like the other students. They say how is it possible?
Baba answers: Tell them, does ShivBaba need to make efforts? ShivBaba doesn't need to make any efforts."

Quotation from another discussion:
"Student: Bhai doesn't wake up or goes sleep in the daytime. He says, Baba also does like this.
Baba: Does ShivBaba need to do all this? Does ShivBaba need to make efforts?"
indie wrote:Baba Dixit replied that -- I am not Ram.
Let's think honestly. If he says "I am not Ram", we can assume that he speaks truth. So, he means it. He means that he is not Ram's soul, Prajapita. So, I should believe what he says, according to his own teaching that we should always be one, internally and externally; and that the one who thinks something else and speaks something else is the most dangerous for the yagua. So, if he has realised that he is Ram's soul, Prajpita (as it has been taught by AIVV for decades), yet he speaks somethig else, he misleads students or says untruth. I would prefer to assume that he speaks truth - and he really says what he means. So I shall believe him that he is not Ram's soul, Prajapita, because he says so. Then, what's the problem? Why does AIVV propagate that Virendra Dev Dixit is Ram's soul - Prajapita, when he himself says something opposite? This sounds to me completely crazy.

SM says "The Father himself comes and introduces himself". How will he introduce himself by saying that he is not the Father, but someone else? Have you ever met an ordinary Father, who comes to his child and aswers the child's question "Are you the Father", by saying "I am not the Father?" and expects the child to believe him that he is the Father? I haven't. Of course it doesn't mean anything.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by ANU » 29 Apr 2011

indie wrote:If you find that His teachings are not to your understanding, it is because you never tally His work with SM.
You made a big mistake by saying this. You don't know it, yet you said it. I did study lots of Sakar Murlis and compared them with AK.
indie wrote:Instead of reading more of SM to tally AK, you are more interested in finding ways to expose Him which is non-beneficial and no one will win as all of us are dealing with the personified form of ShivBaba.
I do not follow the path many PBK are folowing. Let mejust give you an example: even after presenting them independent documents stating that Om Radhe in 1936 was not 14 years old (as Baba Virendra Dev Dixit said in his Advance Course and in quite a view other classes and discussions), they say that it is impossible that Om Radhe was not 14, because Baba said that she was 14.

I am interesting in finding out facts and present them; I am not interesting in hiding anything or to believe blindly in whatever Baba said. I used to believe in his every word and it led me to a great disappointment. So, now I check everything.
indie wrote:So in the meantime, be my guest trying to expose Baba DIxit to which it is not worth a penny.
I don't understad what you are trying to say by this.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by pbkindiana » 29 Apr 2011

Anu wrote:
A quotation from a discussion in which I took part in Farrukhabad:
"A student asks: Baba, what should be told when someone says that Baba doesn't make efforts like the other students. They say how is it possible?
Baba answers: Tell them, does ShivBaba need to make efforts? ShivBaba doesn't need to make any efforts."

Quotation from another discussion:
"Student: Bhai doesn't wake up or goes sleep in the daytime. He says, Baba also does like this.
Baba: Does ShivBaba need to do all this? Does ShivBaba need to make efforts?"
You fall into this trap of imbecile questions and gets disappointed by the answers. Anyone who understands the Trimurti picture will know exactly that Shankar(Baba Dixit) is making so much of effort that His purusharth is unquestionable.Anyone with brains will never ask stupid questions regarding the purusharth of Baba. The questions was asked using the word 'Baba' and Baba means Father ie ShivBaba only, so the replies given are accurate. Even when I first met Baba, and told Baba that Shiva is in you, Baba replied no and yet i did not give up this study. I continued reading AK and SM and later i came to understand why Baba replied that Shiva is not in Him.
Let's think honestly. If he says "I am not Ram", we can assume that he speaks truth. So, he means it. He means that he is not Ram's soul, Prajapita. So, I should believe what he says, according to his own teaching that we should always be one, internally and externally; and that the one who thinks something else and speaks something else is the most dangerous for the yagua. So, if he has realised that he is Ram's soul, Prajpita (as it has been taught by AIVV for decades), yet he speaks somethig else, he misleads students or says untruth. I would prefer to assume that he speaks truth - and he really says what he means. So I shall believe him that he is not Ram's soul, Prajapita, because he says so. Then, what's the problem? Why does AIVV propagate that Veerendra Dev Dixit is Ram's soul - Prajapita, when he himself says something opposite? This sounds to me completely crazy.
How can Baba say that He is Ram, Prajapita or Shiva is in Him when He is still an effort-maker and hasnt achieve the stage of Ram, Prajapita or Bhagwan. If Baba says that He is Ram, then Ram rajya should be prevalent, If Baba says that He is Prajapita, then the world should declare that He is the Father of humanity, if Baba says that Shiva is in Him, then the role of Bhagwan should commence. Without understanding all this, you are making a mountain out of a molehill.
SM says "The Father himself comes and introduces himself". How will he introduce himself by saying that he is not the Father, but someone else? Have you ever met an ordinary Father, who comes to his child and aswers the child's question "Are you the Father", by saying "I am not the Father?" and expects the child to believe him that he is the Father? I haven't. Of course it doesn't mean anything.
Please do not bring in the biological fathers in this discussion as biological fathers and ShivBaba(spiritual Father) is entirely different. Lokik fathers give birth to us physically but we can only recognize the spiritual Father through His work as Shiva said that knowledgeable children are dear to Him. If we are unable to recognize the spiritual Father through His work, then how will we become His children. We recognize God through the third eye of knowledge and use knowledge to understand Him.

indie.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by pbkindiana » 29 Apr 2011

Anu wrote:
You made a big mistake by saying this. You don't know it, yet you said it. I did study lots of Sakar Murlis and compared them with AK.
Am i making a big mistake by saying this statement and if you claim that you read SM alot, then when Shiva said that "Father Brahma explains to you children and this Brahma is included in this, so do not get confuse" -- you will then understand the reason of the ambiguities in AK and never defy Baba Dixit-Rambap-ShivBaba.
I do not follow the path many PBK are folowing. Let mejust give you an example: even after presenting them independent documents stating that Om Radhe in 1936 was not 14 years old (as Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit said in his Advance Course and in quite a view other classes and discussions), they say that it is impossible that Om Radhe was not 14, because Baba said that she was 14.

I am interesting in finding out facts and present them; I am not interesting in hiding anything or to believe blindly in whatever Baba said. I used to believe in his every word and it led me to a great disappointment. So, now I check everything.
For someone who claims reading alot of SM is not able to understand the contents of AK and gets disappointed just because everything is not at your fingertips. Only ShivBaba will reveal everything and sorry to say that you will never find any true facts of this spiritual study as it is said that Father teaches and never said that you do your own research and get the truth.
I don't understad what you are trying to say by this.
It means you can continue doing your research and defy AK and its author but you will lose only as all of us are dealing with God practically in sangam yug.

indie.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by Sach_Khand » 30 Apr 2011

arjun wrote: This is what I am stressing on. Why is Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit alone being subjected to minute dissection when he has never claimed that he is playing the part of ShivBaba?
Why aren't the BKWSU being subjected to the same questioning when they openly claim that God is coming in Gulzar Dadi?
This is an open lie.
What has Virendra Dev Dixit been doing since 1970s ??? And not just him alone. Many BKs too joined him in questioning BKWSU. And this is how the present AIVV has been established. And even now the followers are questioning and advertising against BKWSU wherever it is possible for them including this forum.
Arjun,
how do you think I came to Virendra Dev Dixit? It is because the BKWSU was questioned about their claims of God coming in Gulzar Dadi. And I as a BK when came across this, I too got this question in my mind. And for anyone when there is no satisfactory answer from BKs they have no choice left but to leave their theory. But the difficulty of those people did not end there.
Those people like myself, even after following Virendra Dev Dixit for more than a decade accepting his theories despite the contradictions in them, are told by Virendra Dev Dixit on one fine day that when did he claim to be ShivBaba's part? So, what are all his followers doing there? Do they have the capacity to recognise Shiv in Virendra Dev Dixit? If yes then why cannot they ask Shiv in Virendra Dev Dixit directly and get their doubts cleared. We can see even in this forum that there is no one version of explanation by followers of Virendra Dev Dixit to many important points.
arjun wrote: Why is not shivsena Bhai being subjected to the same questioning when he claims to have a knowledge higher than Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit? Just because he speaks of a fairy Godmother who cannot be made accountable, he is being let scot-free by the die-hard critics of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit?
This is just your imagination.
Who says that Shivsena is not questioned?
And, it is utter shamelessness to write such a response by a senior follower of Virendra Dev Dixit. Does Arjun want to compare Shivsena with Virendra Dev Dixit?
There is lots of difference in what Shivsena is doing and what Virendra Dev Dixit has been doing.
Shivsena is still not hundred percent sure of his theories. And he is not claiming to be ShivBaba himself. He is not creating a group of followers and claiming to give his followers inheritence in this birth. And he is not trying to instigate women folk to become Gopis of him.
But Virendra Dev Dixit has been doing all this and has amassed wealth in crores in the form of buildings and has got into relation with many women giving his explanations of Murlis. And has been doing all this for more than three decades now. And still does not want himself to be questioned or analysed !!!
And his followers like you start blaming anyone who questions the theories of Virendra Dev Dixit. That is not fair.
arjun wrote: Neither the God of BKWSU (incorporeal Shiv through subtle Brahma) can be made answerable nor the God of shivsena Bhai (incorporeal Shiv+subtle Om Radhey) can be made answerable because they do not have any appointed Chariot at all. So, their respective followers (BKs and members like shivsena and sachkhand) can get away with making any accusation or for making any false claim while Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit who is in his physical body and is answerable to the entire world is being subjected to defamation. Is this justified?
And what great accountability has Virendra Dev Dixit shown in all these three decades although openly spreading the information that a guy from UP (Farrukhabadi in particular) who studied in Ahmedabad (Ahem-da-badi) and got in connection with BK knowledge after the departure of DL is the actual appointed Chariot of Shiv because that guy was actually Shewakram in his previous birth through whom DL actually got the explanation of his visions because Shiv actually entered in Shewakram first which can be proved by the fact that Dl was not at all of the age sixty in 1936 when Shiv first talked.
:-?
But still, even now Virendra Dev Dixit has no accountability at all and his followers too openly state that Virendra Dev Dixit never claimed to be ShivBaba or Ram etc.,
pbkindiana wrote: Just want to inform generally that Baba Dixit has never claimed or declared that He is Shiva's appointed Chariot or Prajapita or Shankar or Ram. When a question was raised that whether He is Ram, Baba Dixit replied that --I am not Ram.

Based on AK teachings, the PBKs realized that He is the personified form of ShivBaba and AIVV expanded on the basis of the faith and belief that Baba Dixit is the appointed Chariot of Shiva.

So whoever wants to accuse Baba Dixit that He declared himself as the personifed form of ShivBaba, please provide the concrete proof of His acclamation.
indie.
In Hindi it is said "Toh ab tak kya zhak maar rahe thaey kya?" Please get it translated in English from someone who knows English really very well. I too do not know the real meaning of it but is used as a slang in Hindi to question someone what was he/she doing all this time afterall?

IS LYING OPENLY FOR MORE THAN THREE DECADES JUSTIFIED? VEERENDRA DEV DIXIT AND HIS FOLLOWERS HAVE BEEN OPENLY LYING SINCE MORE THAN THREE DECADES AND ARE STILL SPREADING THE SAME LIE. IS THIS JUSTIFIED?

There are many people who have their faith insomeone. Just recently Puttapurthi Sai Baba passed away. There are many throughout the world who claim him to be God. But they say it openly and directly. Why are Virendra Dev Dixit and his followers hesitating to say openly and directly what they have been spreading since more than three decades? I am not at all questioning their faith in Virendra Dev Dixit. But I am questioning their irresponsible way of behaviour.

:neutral:
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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by Sach_Khand » 30 Apr 2011

pbkindiana wrote: When a question was raised that whether He is Ram, Baba Dixit replied that --I am not Ram.

indie.
With that answer from Virendra Dev Dixit will indiana, arjun, nivi, roy and all others like them stop writing that Virendra Dev Dixit is Ram. Will you all please stop writing lies about Virendra Dev Dixit in this forum now onwards?

:neutral:
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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by Sach_Khand » 30 Apr 2011

pbkindiana wrote:For someone who claims reading alot of SM is not able to understand the contents of AK and gets disappointed just because everything is not at your fingertips. Only ShivBaba will reveal everything and sorry to say that you will never find any true facts of this spiritual study as it is said that Father teaches and never said that you do your own research and get the truth.

indie.
pbkindiana wrote: Based on AK teachings, the PBKs realized that He is the personified form of ShivBaba and AIVV expanded on the basis of the faith and belief that Baba Dixit is the appointed Chariot of Shiva.

indie.
Same person writes totally opposite things.
Again I question to all the followers of Virendra Dev Dixit, how did they understood that Virendra Dev Dixit is the personified form of ShivBaba?

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by pbkindiana » 01 May 2011

sachkhand wrote:
With that answer from Veerendra Dev Dixit will indiana, arjun, nivi, raoy and all others like them stop writing that Veerendra Dev Dixit is Ram.
We regard Baba Dixit as Ram based on AK and SM. Only human gurus will declare that they are God and then die of some diseases where it is said in SM that karmateet stage is a stage where you will be disease-free. If anyone claims that He is God, then He should be immortal and disease free.
Will you all please stop writing lies about Veerendra Dev Dixit in this forum now onwards?
The PBKs have full faith that Baba Dixit is the personified form of ShivBaba based on AK and with our own experiences with Baba Dixit-ShivBaba.

It is said in SM that we have to recognize God with the third eye of knowledge and based on SM and AK, the PBKs have full faith that Baba Dixit is the practical part of ShivBaba.

An intelligent person knows that Shiv will never leave till He has establish heaven, then the search for Shiv on the appointed Chariot should be done based on knowledge.

An intellectual will be aware that it is said in SM, if someone claims that He is God, then he is considered a demon, so based on this SM point, Baba Dixit will never claim that He is the practical form of ShivBaba. So instead of blabbering that PBKs are writing lies, he should read more SM before pointing a finger at the PBKs.

indie.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by Roy » 01 May 2011

Sach_Khand wrote:With that answer from Virendra Dev Dixit will indiana, arjun, nivi, raoy and all others like them stop writing that Virendra Dev Dixit is Ram. Will you all please stop writing lies about Virendra Dev Dixit in this forum now onwards?
They are not lies Sanjeev Bhai, they are our opinions(understanding). We are entitled to share our faith on this PBK forum, and that is what we will continue to do, as long as it exists. Sorry if that upsets you!
Sach_Khand wrote:Again I question to all the followers of Virendra Dev Dixit, how did they understood that Virendra Dev Dixit is the personified form of ShivBaba?

Through the teachings of AK; how else?

Roy

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by arjun » 01 May 2011

sachkhand wrote:This is an open lie.
No, it is not.
Who says that Shivsena is not questioned?
No. He is not, especially by the above member and anu.
And, it is utter shamelessness to write such a response by a senior follower of Veerendra Dev Dixit. Does Arjun want to compare Shivsena with Veerendra Dev Dixit?
No. It is not. Shivsena is trying to prove himself greater than Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. So, he too needs to be questioned and he too needs to be accountable. But just because he speaks of a fairy Godmother who is supposed to be revealed through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit (whom he defames the most) in future according to his imagination nobody is questioning him. Even if anyone questions him nothing will come out of it as he speaks of imaginary things which do not have any basis.
But still, even now Veerendra Dev Dixit has no accountability at all and his followers too openly state that Veerendra Dev Dixit never claimed to be ShivBaba or Ram etc.,
If he is not accountable, he would not have recorded every word spoken by him on video and uploaded it on the official website. There is no other religious leader on this Earth who has such guts.
But they say it openly and directly. Why are Veerendra Dev Dixit and his followers hesitating to say openly and directly what they have been spreading since more than three decades?
Those PBKs who have faith in ShivBaba's practical part do claim openly that God's part is being played through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. What else does the above member want? If he wants Baba Virendra Dev Dixit to claim that he is God, then his wish will never be fulfilled. He better use his time, money and energy for better purposes.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by arjun » 01 May 2011

sachkhand wrote:There are many people who have their faith insomeone. Just recently Puttapurthi Sai Baba passed away. There are many throughout the world who claim him to be God. But they say it openly and directly. Why are Veerendra Dev Dixit and his followers hesitating to say openly and directly what they have been spreading since more than three decades? I am not at all questioning their faith in Veerendra Dev Dixit. But I am questioning their irresponsible way of behaviour.
I have quoted the following Murli point in the past on this forum in response to sachkhand's views on the above issue. However, I am repeating the same.

“बाप का ज्ञान किसमें है नहीं। पूछो भगवान कहाँ है? तो कहेंगे सर्वव्यापी है। गोया भगवान का ज्ञान कोई में है नहीं। इसलिए भक्ति करते हैं भगवान से मिलने के लिए। परन्तु कैसे और कब मिलेंगे? यह किसको पता नहीं है। बाप कहते हैं कोटों में कोई मुझे पहचानते हैं। मनुष्य तो सरसों मिसल अथाह हैं। इनमें कोई जो सिकीलधे हैं वही आकर मुझे पहचानेंगे और बाप से अपना वर्सा लेंगे। तुम समझा सकते हो कि इस समय सभी भक्त हैं। चाहते हैं कि हम भगवान से भक्ति का फल लेवें। अगर तुम सब भगवान हो तो फिर भक्त तो कोई हो न सके। अगर तुम भगवान हो तो बाकी तुमको क्या चाहिए? भक्तों को फिर मिलना है भगवान से।

अपने को भगवान कहना – यह तो एक इन्सल्ट है, इससे बड़ी इन्सल्ट कोई होती नहीं। अल्लाह से तो हम बहिश्त का वर्सा लेना चाहते हैं। तुम कहते हो – हम अल्लाह हैं। अब तुम ही जज करो। तुमको कोई कहे – हम अल्लाह हैं, यह कैसे हो सकता? अल्लाह तो सबसे बड़ा है। यह बहुत समझने की बातें हैं। कभी भी कोई अपने को अल्लाह वा भगवान कह न सके। बाप सबका एक होगा। ऐसे बहुत कहते हैं परमात्मा सर्वव्यापी है। अरे, तुम भगवान हो, हम तो नहीं मानते। हम तो भक्त हैं। आशिक हैं उस माशुक के। एक परमात्मा को ही पतित पावन कहा जाता है।“
(ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली तारीख ०७.०६.०८, पृष्ठ २)

“Nobody has the knowledge of the Father. If you ask them where is God, they will say He is omnipresent. It means that nobody has the knowledge of God. That is why they do Bhakti to meet God. But nobody knows how and when they will meet (God). The Father says – A few among crores (millions) recognize me. Human beings are numerous like mustard seeds. Among them only those who are seekiladhey (long lost and now found) will come and recognize me and obtain their inheritance from the Father. You can explain that at this time everyone is a devotee (bhakt). They want that they should obtain the fruit of Bhakti from God. If you all are Gods, then nobody can be a devotee. If you are God, then what else do you want? The devotees would want to meet God.

Calling oneself God is an insult (of God). There cannot be a bigger insult than this. We want to obtain the inheritance of heaven from Allah. [And] you say – we are Allah. Well, you yourself judge. If anyone tells you that he is Allah, how can it be possible? Allah is the greatest one. These are things that have to be understood deeply. Nobody can ever call himself Allah or God. Everybody’s Father will be one. Many say that the Supreme Soul is omnipresent. Arey, you are God, we don’t believe it. We are devotees. We are lovers of that beloved one. Only one Supreme Soul is called the purifier of the sinful ones."
(Revised Sakar Murli dated 07.06.08, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, translated by a PBK)

Despite having quoted this point in the past the above member keeps repeating his question. It only shows how he does not accept ShivBaba's words to be true and in a way he is proving himself to be greater than God by challenging God's words again and again.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by pbkindiana » 01 May 2011

sachkhand wrote:
Same person writes totally opposite things.
Again I question to all the followers of Veerendra Dev Dixit, how did they understood that Veerendra Dev Dixit is the personified form of ShivBaba?
Shiva said in SM that knowledge will retain in the golden vessel-like intellect and knowledge slips off in the mud vessel-like intellect, so similarly eventhough it is said umpteen times that Bab Dixit will never declare that He is the practical form of ShivBaba based on the SM that whoever call himself as God is considered as a demon, but the above member repetitively ask the same question.

It is the PBKs only who regard Baba Dixit as the personified form of ShivBaba based on AK and SM.

indie.

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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by Roy » 01 May 2011

Nice posts Arjun Bhai!

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shivsena
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Re: AK crazy story about peacock

Post by shivsena » 02 May 2011

arjun wrote:

Calling oneself God is an insult (of God). There cannot be a bigger insult than this. We want to obtain the inheritance of heaven from Allah. [And] you say – we are Allah. Well, you yourself judge. If anyone tells you that he is Allah, how can it be possible? Allah is the greatest one. These are things that have to be understood deeply. Nobody can ever call himself Allah or God. Everybody’s Father will be one. Many say that the Supreme Soul is omnipresent. Arey, you are God, we don’t believe it. We are devotees. We are lovers of that beloved one. Only one Supreme Soul is called the purifier of the sinful ones." [/color](Revised Sakar Murli dated 07.06.08, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, translated by a PBK)

Despite having quoted this point in the past the above member keeps repeating his question. It only shows how he does not accept ShivBaba's words to be true and in a way he is proving himself to be greater than God by challenging God's words again and again.
If someone is not God and is impersonating himself and calling himself as God, then i can understand that it is definitely an insult of GOD....but if someone(baba dixit) is really personified God (as per PBKs) then why does Baba dixit not say clearly that he is personified God (as it is also said in Murlis : "Bhagwan aakar khud apna parichay bacchon ko dete hain" ("Godfather himself comes and gives his introduction to his children.")...so according to the above SM point If baba dixit is really GOd then he should say it very clearly as it will prevent a lot of hostility between BKs--PBKs--and ex-PBKs....unless there is a hidden agenda to the present part of Baba Dixit in this behad ka drama.
shivsena.

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