Forum changes

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arjun
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Re: Forum changes

Post by arjun » 09 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:Regarding the andrey issue, i would like to clarify that i did not ban andrey.....he was banned by the bkinfo. admin.(anyone can confirm by writing to bkinfo.) and i just continued his ban when i inherited the forum....i have given my explanation regarding this before and i feel there is no further need to clarify by raising this issue again and again ... i personally feel that inspite of the hostility here, the forum is a better place without andrey (who had a knack to take the discussion on the wrong track.)
As far as I remember he was banned only after you revealed that you are the admin of this forum much after this forum got separated from bkinfo forum. Otherwise, why would people continuously blame you for his ban since so many years?
Admin of bkinfo can clarify if needed.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Forum changes

Post by Roy » 09 Jun 2011

arjun wrote:As far as I remember he was banned only after you revealed that you are the admin of this forum much after this forum got separated from bkinfo forum. Otherwise, why would people continuously blame you for his ban since so many years?
I believe you are correct here Arjun Bhai, as i read a post by Andrey Bhai only hours ago, that was written after the split, about moderators, in response to a post by Bansy on this subject.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2011#p29109

Roy

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Re: Forum changes

Post by pbkindiana » 09 Jun 2011

sachkhand wrote:
If someone gets irritated by my views about Veerendra Dev Dixit then it is his problem and not mine.
It is the PBKs' problem if someone illogically accuse Baba Dixit of his acts and anyone with a little sense will accuse Baba Dxit with documentation and not on hearsay.

indie.

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Re: Forum changes

Post by shivsena » 09 Jun 2011

Roy wrote: I believe you are correct here Arjun Bhai, as i read a post by Andrey Bhai only hours ago, that was written after the split, about moderators, in response to a post by Bansy on this subject.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2011#p29109
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

To know the whole story about andrey Bhai and his attitude and his banning and opinion of other members about him, please read the whole page on the link below.....Thread: "Confusing answers from AIVV. "(page 3) by sachkhand.....please read the top and bottom post.

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=37&t ... hai#p30041

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Re: Forum changes

Post by pbkindiana » 09 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:
My main objective is to make the PBKs aware of the ambiguity of Ak teachings, which i feel is completely contra-dictory to what the Murlis teach
Only those PBKs who attend your gathering will be inspired with your speculations and save your time, energy and breadth for them.
....Murlis say over and over again that : "Koi bhi dehdhari bhagwan nahin ho sakta" ("no bodily person can be bhagwan")
Also Murlis did not mention any form of fairy Godmother which you imagine and it is said in SM that "I am sitting next to Him" --- so share your philosophy with those who agree with you.

Also it is said in SM 12.2.04 -- "The soul is very tiny whereas the body which is visible to the tiny soul is so large. When the tiny soul separates from it, he cannot see anything."

So yo can continue to imagine your mateeshwari when she is not able to see you at all.

indie.

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Re: Forum changes

Post by pbkindiana » 09 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote"

To know the whole story about andrey Bhai and his attitude and his banning and opinion of other members about him, please read the whole page from top to bottom, on the link below.[/color]
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=37&t ... 041&hilit=
I still remember clearly that Andrey used the term 'barking dog' and you immdeiately banned him for that term.

So if you have the power of discrimination as an admin, then you have to ban Anu who used this similar term ie. barking dogs, and you have to take action on sachkhand for using the term 'rascal'.

You also have to relinquish you status as the admin for directly calling PBKs as idiots.

If you do not have the heart to take actions on your supporters, then reinstate Andrey.

If you are not going to take actions on those who used abusive terms and not reinstating Andrey, then you are not qualified to be the admin of this forum.

indie.

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Re: Forum changes

Post by sita » 09 Jun 2011

I read here, and post here, on a purely personal basis and ask you to allow me to do so.
We are the ones who can present ourselves well or embarace ourselves better than anyone else can do that about us. Why are ceremonies needed and permissions where we feel the place of our own and not like their place or our place. Problems start with separation. Of course it requires accomodating host, but also responsibility of the participants. no one likes rubbish on his own territory. This was the problem with bkinfo, it was home for some and foreign for others. There was agenda, some was along with it, some was not and it resulted in spoiling the natural community feeling. Some people were made to feel uncomfortable about themselves and threathened. No matter how many were banned but many were chased away by making them feel to be not on their place. There was demanding attitude to make people obliged for something they did not asked about - the "professional" outlook and standart they were not able to match and made to feel guilty for nothing. Many were there just for sharing, but they did nothing in rerurn, how comfartable is that, they were there to only taka and take, use and use and abuse and never give. Oh, how can it be that such people can be welcome. Is it a place for mere talk? Never. It is not professional. The admin took editing role too seriously as the public face were more than important. No suprise the volume of work grew to the level of not being managable. I don't know the tech matters, but i believe that managing forum with many participanst would be the same as with fewer, but if we are in a big group it feels better, like a bog familly, but we have to sacrifice the elitistic approach.

Indeed there is not so much to tell about Gyan besides parroting, but there is so much to do about it that is seen in the practical example and it is the community feeling, of bringing different people together like one that can be there with the attitude that we live toghether and share everything together, like our day-to-day concerns, off topics, anecdotes, different approaches to different aspects and matters of life, cooking recepies, spontaneous sharings, practical advices etc. And this is something to learn and practice every day with others, but such chance and such attitude was deliberately suffocated by the agenda, some people were just chased away, the problem was eliminated, but not solved, the topics were meant to be too strictly, unnessesarily observed, especially when they were not going there as they were supposed to go and of course there was extra officiality, superimposing ambition that killed it all. There was an approach and those who were along with it prospered, those who were different did not make it. Comply, accept the matters as we put them, or go away, here it is not for you was the message. The admin body never made any steps, it was always only other people's fault. Afrter all he is not a human but a super-hero that never have any faults. Making the admin not recognizable and accessable, may have had adantages, but it robbed it from this feeling of the ordinary person that brings people together.

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Re: Forum changes

Post by Roy » 09 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:To know the whole story about andrey Bhai and his attitude and his banning and opinion of other members about him, please read the whole page on the link below.....Thread: "Confusing answers from AIVV. "(page 3) by sachkhand.....please read the top and bottom post.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Thank you for the link to the Andrey banning scenario.

I only have a limited amount of knowledge on this subject, and i feel i understand why you banned Andrey, but i don't think i really agree with it. It appears that he was a very eager poster, and that perhaps he did wander off track a little at times; but it is easy enough to skip over those parts of his posts. His comment about barking dogs was fairly mild imo, perhaps not ideal, but he was feeling frustrated about his predicament when he said that. I cannot agree with your comment about quoting from VCDs etc., especially if it is in the PBK section of the forum... this comes across as a little strange. However, i can see that this is not ideal, if you are dealing with anti-AK opinion, as you do have to address this, using Sakar and Avayakt Murli quotes, to back-up your opinions.

I cannot make an ultimate judgement here, because as i say, i have too little experience of the situation. However, if I am honest Bhai; this seems more about your own personal feelings about Andrey Bhai, and that you found him very irritating(i don't believe you banned him because he opposed you), and could take no more of him. I am not sure this however, was a good enough reason to ban him; as i feel your roles of admin and forum member crossed here, and lead to you taking action, that may not have occured otherwise.

In short, I am not sure if Andrey Bhai's "faults" such as they are; were disruptive enough, to warrant him being banned. We all perhaps, need to work on our tolerance; and it appears Andrey Bhai, stretched yours to breaking point!

Roy

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Re: Forum changes

Post by shivsena » 09 Jun 2011

Roy wrote: In short, I am not sure if Andrey Bhai's "faults" such as they are; were disruptive enough, to warrant him being banned. We all perhaps, need to work on our tolerance; and it appears Andrey Bhai, stretched yours to breaking point!Roy
Yes--roy Bhai ---my limit of tolerance was reached and my patience was tested and ultimately the inevitable happened....even the previous admin. brother was fed up with andrey and many others like john and ex-l were also getting irritated (as you must have read in their posts)...so the circumstances that lead to the banning of andrey was his own undoing, as one is responsible for his own karma.(like we all are).

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Re: Forum changes

Post by button slammer » 09 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:Yes--roy Bhai ---my limit of tolerance was reached and my patience was tested and ultimately the inevitable happened....even the previous admin. Brother was fed up with andrey and many others like john and ex-l were also getting irritated (as you must have read in their posts)...so the circumstances that lead to the banning of andrey was his own undoing, as one is responsible for his own karma.(like we all are).
At the time Andrey was introducing and defending PBK concepts and history to a wide front. On top of introducing and explaining the role of ShivBaba And AK he was also simultaneously defending ShivBaba at the same time from several antagonist opponants yourself included. For example ex-l was trying to determine where AK fitted into the grand scheme of things, John was struggling to understand even basic AK concepts such as 'Living Paramdham' and you, (others) who were and still are utterly declaring AK as 100% false and delaring yourself as 'God of the Gita'. In my opinion Andrey performed an excellent role. He was very tolerant of all views and never deviated from the Fathers explanations, proved indefatiguable, and completely earned the certificate of contentment from myself, and others. He was faced with a very difficult task and never once complained. Your time is now up as admin.
A general consensus has formed. Whatever it takes for the regular PBKs to look after things for ourselves we will do. I myself am looking forewrd to talks with the admin at large in order to initiate a new way foreward in terms of taking over any financial upkeep or inputting manhours. Thanks for the recent changes but is a classic case of 'too little too late'. At least what little you have done may off set the enormous amount of damage done. But as you rightly say
shivsena wrote:as one is responsible for his own karma.(like we all are).
More to follow on the weekend.
OK AUM

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Re: Forum changes

Post by warrior » 09 Jun 2011

fluffy bunny wrote: My interest is purely in 'more historical facts' ... not interpretations. I wish someone would dig them out.
bunny Bhai and admin

It is a bit better around here now with the changes you have done.
Yes, historical facts is my thing also.
The history section is here now and you also made a link connecting to the bk.info Library. So, if I want to upload stuff do I need to login to bk.info to do that? But... bki banned us from participating over there is not it? If this is the case, can we have a Library over here also?

thank you,
aumshanti

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arjun
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Re: Forum changes

Post by arjun » 09 Jun 2011

Shivsena wrote in this thread recently:
Regarding the andrey issue, i would like to clarify that i did not ban andrey.....he was banned by the bkinfo. admin.(anyone can confirm by writing to bkinfo.) and i just continued his ban when i inherited the forum....i have given my explanation regarding this before and i feel there is no further need to clarify by raising this issue again and again ... i personally feel that inspite of the hostility here, the forum is a better place without andrey (who had a knack to take the discussion on the wrong track.)
Shivsena wrote in another thread in the past which he has now referred himself:
i just want to clarify the controversy regarding andrey Bhai (an issue which as been given undue importance and blown out of proportion).

First of all i have nothing personal against andrey Bhai, but i was against his persistent attitude of butting in healthy conversations and off-tracking important discussions with his irrelavant posts.( not only myself but many of the other members of the forum were also of the same opinion). Andrey Bhai was first banned when he was still in brahmakumaris.info forum by the original administrator and i had absolutely nothing do with it. He was rightfully penalised for his persistent irrelavant behaviour. I was glad when he was banned, as the forum became healthy with to the point discussions by all members. Then after some time he was banned, i received a personal email from andrey Bhai who requested to me, that i write to the administrator of brahmakumaris.info to unban him, and also i could see by his email that he was getting restless by not being able to participate in the discussions. But i remained silent for the simple reason that there was no mention in his email that he would rectify his habit of interfering and irrelavant talks. I did not write to the administrator nor did i reply back to andreybhai and things continued in the same fashion.

Then the administrator decided to seperate out the BK-PBK group into a new forum and wrote to me and i replied to him that i am willing to take the full responsibility of the new forum if no one else came forward. So with the help of that very helpful Brother(i am very grateful to him) i registered the domain BK-PBK.info and all the hard work of transferring the files were done by that Brother(whose name i still do not know) and the new forum was born; in that process, he unbanned all the members and so andreybhai and other Brothers(except you) were able to post ther views; when i received your email that you were still not able to post i tried everything in my means to unban you but i was not successful, so i wrote to the same Brother and he guided me on how to unban and ban members and i was glad that you were re-instated and able to post your views

Now andreybhai, when unbanned, he came back with his original enthusiam and persistent ways and i could not understand how can a soul could be so persistent inspite of repeated warnings; then i first started deleting his irrelavant posts to show my resentment and give him a warning signal but when he still persisted then i banned him in sheer desperation. Then andreybhai immediately wrote to me again requesting to unban him and i wrote back to him saying that he will be allowed to post only in the commonroom and if he wishes to post his views on the PBK section, then he should be relevant and to the point and quote only from Murlis and Vanis(which everyone respects) and not from cds and cassettes (which only PBKs believe); andreybhai immediately agreed and so i unbanned him(long before your request) and he was able to post his views again on the forum. This is the whole story and i have been un-necessary made the villain of the whole episode, when in fact the real culprit was andreybhai's persistent attitude of irrelavant posts and his reluctance to improve and ignoring the warnings.

Let the members decide who is responsible for andreybhai's past predicament!! Is it myself or is it andreybhai himself !!!... And if in future, he persists with his original ways or his ways are unhealthy to the forum, i will not hesitate to ban him again.
So the ball is in andreybhai's court now; he has the choice to kick it out or play it well.
The above two quotes prove the lies of shivsena Bhai. He has himself admitted in the above post that he banned andrey Bhai after he started writing on this forum after it was separated from bkinfo.

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Re: Forum changes

Post by shivsena » 09 Jun 2011

Arjun Bhai has a knack of proving it again and again that he can make non-issues into big issues and he has done it again....he has failed to see that what i wrote previously was in gist (short) that andrey was first banned by bkinfo and not by me.... and subsequently i was instrumental in debanning him and he was banned again by me when he persisted with his ways....so please grow up arjun Bhai and try to see the essence in everything and not stick to the words.

shivsena.

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Re: Forum changes

Post by Roy » 09 Jun 2011

warrior wrote:The history section is here now and you also made a link connecting to the bk.info Library. So, if I want to upload stuff do I need to login to bk.info to do that? But... bki banned us from participating over there is not it? If this is the case, can we have a Library over here also?
Will this be possible admin?

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Re: Forum changes

Post by shivsena » 10 Jun 2011

Roy wrote: Will this be possible admin?
Dear roy Bhai.

I will try to see if this is possible.

admin.

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