Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special?

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shivsena
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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by shivsena » 04 Mar 2012

Roy wrote:
The BKs do not even know who Shankar is, so how can they prove Shiv and Shankar are separate? But by calling the Advance Party the Shankar Party, they have unknowingly given credit to Baba Dixit(Shankar) alone for being ShivBaba(Shiv-Shankar), when it is of course Father Shiv via Shankar who is running the Advance Party. They have made two become one through their ignorance!
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

I do not know how they(BKs) have made shiv-Shankar a single entity through ignorance, but they are certainly not preaching the same....but ask any pbk about shiv-Shankar and he will say unhesitatingly that shiv-Shankar are a single entity (Baba Dixit), and he will leave no stone unturned to prove the same, even though Murlis do not support the belief that shiv-Shankar are same.

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by Roy » 05 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:I do not know how they(BKs) have made shiv-Shankar a single entity through ignorance, but they are certainly not preaching the same
It's the same type of thing as when the BKs put Pitashri infront of ShivBaba in the Sakar Murlis... this effectivly removes ShivBaba from being the narrator of the Gita and makes Pitashri-Krishna this.

"Gita has been narrated by the Father. A problem has been created (in the Confluence Age) by (the BKs) adding the name of the child (Pitashri-Krishna to the Murli) instead of(before) the Father(ShivBaba).” [Mu 22.02.08]


So with Shiv-Shankar...

"If Shankar wasn't there (in practical corporeal form), I (Shiv) wouldn't have been mixed up with Shankar. They have prepared his picture (in Bhakti marg) and mixed Me also with Shankar (due to the same error the BKs made in the Copper Age, by calling ShivBaba's Advance Party, the Shankar Party). They call him Shiv-Shankar-Mahadev. Hence he (Shankar) becomes Mahadev (Greatest of all the deities, but this role is actually being played by Father Shiv through Shankar)." [Mu 23.06.70]

"They say Har-Har-Mahadev, the one who finishes sorrows of everyone. I (Shiv) am this myself, it is not Shankar (he is simply the Chariot). [Mu 04.11.73]

shivsena wrote:but ask any pbk about shiv-Shankar and he will say unhesitatingly that shiv-Shankar are a single entity (Baba Dixit), and he will leave no stone unturned to prove the same, even though Murlis do not support the belief that shiv-Shankar are same.
I put this comment to some PBKs and what i consider a very good ananolgy emerged...

Shiv and Shankar were likened to two separate elements, Sodium and Chlorine, that separately are of no value to us... but combine them to form a new compound, Sodium Chloride or common salt, and there is benefit. So similarly with ShivBaba(Shiv-Shankar) the two souls combine or come together, to transform hell into heaven... but there is always the recognition that this one compound or identity(ShivBaba), is made up of two separate elements(beings). The problem the BKs have, is they only see salt(Shankar), they don't recognise the spiritual chemistry that has created ShivBaba.

Roy

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by shivsena » 06 Mar 2012

Roy wrote:
. So similarly with ShivBaba(Shiv-Shankar) the two souls combine or come together, to transform hell into heaven...
Roy
This is the first time i am hearing that shiv-Shankar combine to transform hell into heaven.....can you please support your views with Murli point that heaven is established through Shankar...if Shankar creates heaven, then he should be called Shankar--The creator and not destroyer.

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by Roy » 06 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:This is the first time i am hearing that shiv-Shankar combine to transform hell into heaven.....can you please support your views with Murli point that heaven is established through Shankar...if Shankar creates heaven, then he should be called Shankar--The creator and not destroyer.
Part of the process of transformation, is the destruction of the old world... heaven cannot exist until the impure world has been destroyed! Not only that, i was speaking of Shankar as the Chariot of Father Shiv... the same Chariot that is known as Prajapita Brahma, the one through whom we receive the inheritance of heaven. You will also note that i put Shiv-Shankar in brackets, after ShivBaba.

"Incorporeal God Father (Shiv) cannot do any work without corporeal Father (Prajapita Brahma), He cannot play any role." [Mu 06.02.76]

“Shiva is the name of the Incorporeal Father, the point of light. He has only one name (Shiva), which never changes. When the forms (or roles) change, then their (the chariots') names also change.” [Mu 24.01.75]

“I (Shiv) have been given names based on different tasks that I have performed (through physical bodies or chariots).” [Mu 04.11.73]

"The name ShivBaba is based on the body." [Mu 24.03.01]

"ShivBaba(Shiv+Prajapita) is called Ram (not Father Shiv the point). But they (BKs) have thought the Supreme Soul (Incorporeal Father Shiv) to be Ram." [Mu 14.04.76]

Shankar's part (or role) is to be played practically (via a corporeal body - Prajapita's). However, shakties (or mothers) play the role of destruction. Shankar doesn't have to play the part of destruction (himself, as this is the karavanhar role of Father Shiv). Shakties (or mothers) have to take up the destructive role." [Av 01.10.71]

“There is the Karan-karavanhaar (Supreme God Father) that is why the role of Karanhaar has been played (through Brahma Baba). Now He is playing the role of Karavanhaar (through Shankar).” [Av 14.02.78]

"Shankar is meant for destruction. So, he is next to Shiv (no 1 child, who emulates Father Shiv's incorporeal stage)." [Mu 21.02.71]

"Prajapita Brahma(Ram) is very great, is not it? He is called next to God(Shiv, as he is the same child as Shankar, only it's a different role)." [Mu 20.11.76]

"ShivBaba(Father Shiv) is subtle. Similarly Shankar is also subtle (i.e. Prajapita-Ram attains a 100% soul conscious or incorporeal stage equal to Father Shiv's by the end of the Confluence Age... hence the name at Revelation, of Shiv Shankar Bholenath)." [Mu 29.09.77]

"Father had explained that Prajapita Brahma(Ram), who is a bodily being now... he only becomes subtle(100% incorporeal like Father Shiv)." [Mu 23.01.84]


Roy

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by arjun » 09 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:but ask any PBK about shiv-Shankar and he will say unhesitatingly that shiv-Shankar are a single entity (Baba Dixit), and he will leave no stone unturned to prove the same, even though Murlis do not support the belief that shiv-Shankar are same.
Shivsena Bhai, you still continue to spread the lies that PBKs consider Shiv-Shankar to be a single entity despite the clarification having been posted hundreds of times on this forum that the souls of Shiv and Shankar are different but are present in the same body (of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit). I think it is you who leave no stone unturned to spread this lie. Anyway, you are free to do so.

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by shivsena » 09 Mar 2012

arjun wrote: Shivsena Bhai, you still continue to spread the lies that PBKs consider Shiv-Shankar to be a single entity despite the clarification having been posted hundreds of times on this forum that the souls of Shiv and Shankar are different.
I will continue to say that BKs are doing the shooting of sarvavyapi ka Gyan(by saying that ShivBaba is bindi and remembering ShivBaba in Paramdham) and PBKs are doing the shooting of ''atma so paramatma''( by saying that shiv is going to be revealed by a dehdhari) and they are also doing the shooting of Bhakti-marg belief that shiv-Shankar are same and that shiv enters Shankar and is revealed as shivshankar in the end.....can you deny that.

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by shivsena » 09 Mar 2012

Roy wrote: Not only that, i was speaking of Shankar as the Chariot of Father Shiv... the same Chariot that is known as Prajapita Brahma, the one through whom we receive the inheritance of heaven. You will also note that i put Shiv-Shankar in brackets, after ShivBaba.
Roy
So according to you ..roy Bhai.... ShivBaba and shivshankar are one and the same !!!

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by Roy » 09 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:So according to you ..roy Bhai.... ShivBaba and shivshankar are one and the same !!!
Yes Bhai! Only Shiv-Shankar is a more specific title based on the completion of Shankar(Baba Dixit) at the end, that is remembered in Bhakti marg. The true Shri Shri ShivBaba, is Shiv-Shankar Bholenath imo.

Roy

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by arjun » 10 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:PBKs are doing the shooting of ''atma so paramatma''( by saying that Shiv is going to be revealed by a dehdhari) and they are also doing the shooting of Bhakti-marg belief that shiv-Shankar are same and that Shiv enters Shankar and is revealed as shivshankar in the end.....can you deny that.
It is true that Shiv enters Shankar and is revealed in the end as Shiv-Shankar Bholeynath, but we never said that soul becomes Supreme Soul or that Shiv and Shankar are the same. These are pure lies being spread by you. You can do so if you get any happiness from doing so.

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by shivsena » 10 Mar 2012

arjun wrote: It is true that Shiv enters Shankar and is revealed in the end as Shiv-Shankar Bholeynath, but we never said that soul becomes Supreme Soul or that Shiv and Shankar are the same.
There are many things which PBKs do not say openly.....but their preachings openly imply, what they refuse to accept.

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by Roy » 10 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:This is the first time i am hearing that shiv-Shankar combine to transform hell into heaven.....can you please support your views with Murli point that heaven is established through Shankar...if Shankar creates heaven, then he should be called Shankar--The creator and not destroyer.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

"Brahma started the work of establishment through Gyan, and Shankar will finish it." [Mu 09.03.12]

I cannot guarantee this is an accurate point because i haven't seen the Murli myself... but in light of your question i thought i'd post it, and perhaps someone may be able to verify its authenticity.

Roy

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by shivsena » 10 Mar 2012

Roy wrote: Yes Bhai! Only Shiv-Shankar is a more specific title based on the completion of Shankar(Baba Dixit) at the end, that is remembered in Bhakti marg. The true Shri Shri ShivBaba, is Shiv-Shankar Bholenath imo.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

If you believe that ShivBaba and shivshankar are same, then do you have any Murli point to support your belief....i have never read in any Murli that ShivBaba and shivshankar are same....on the contrary, there is a Murli point which clearly says : "ShivBaba ko kahenge bholanath, Shankar ko bholanath nahin kahenge."( "ShivBaba is called bholanath..Shankar cannot be called bholanath")...this Murli point clearly implies that ShivBaba and Shankar are two seperate entities and not the same.

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by Roy » 10 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:If you believe that ShivBaba and shivshankar are same, then do you have any Murli point to support your belief.....i have never read in any Murli that ShivBaba and shivshankar are same....on the contrary, there is a Murli point which clearly says : "ShivBaba ko kahenge bholanath, Shankar ko bholanath nahin kahenge."( "ShivBaba is called bholanath..Shankar cannot be called bholanath")...this Murli point clearly implies that ShivBaba and Shankar are two seperate entities and not the same.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I agree with your point, Shankar alone cannot be called Bholanath, but this is imo, what the BKs are unintentionally implying or shooting, by calling the Advance Party the Shankar Party. This is the unknowing mixing of Shiv's and Shankar's roles, just as the ignorant placing of Pitashri infront of ShivBaba in the Murli, has been the shooting of Krishna becoming the God of the Gita in Bhakti marg. These are examples of the shootings of Ravanraj, that begin in 1969 in the BK Yagya, after Brahma Baba's death.

The PBKs are aware that Shiv and Shankar are totally separate entities, but that they come together or combine to become ShivBaba, or Shiv-Shankar... but this imo is not what the Murli point you posted is referring to, because the intellectual understanding of the PBKs is accurate about this combination; whereas the BKs' combining of the two roles is unintentional, born of ignorance... and this is what i believe your Murli point does refer to...

"... it cannot be said that Shiv enters Shankar, like you (BKs unintentionally) say(imply) Shiv-Shankar (when you call ShivBaba's Advance Party, the Shankar Party)... who told you (BKs) that Shiv-Shankar are one?"

Well no-one told the BKs that Shiv-Shankar are one... but through not recognising the Father role played by Shiv through Shankar, and believing only Shankar or Baba Dixit is running the Shankar Party, which is actually ShivBaba's Advance Party, their roles have been ignorantly mixed... just as they are in the Copper Age as it progresses. The accurate understanding of the PBK souls is represented by the Shivling, where the soul of Shiv is shown in the ling or body of Shankar. Only later do Shiv and Shankar's roles get totally mixed up, as the Copper Age progresses... which is born of the shooting in the Confluence Age, after Baba Dixit started to challenge the BK's understanding of the Murlis, and was soon exiled from the Yagya, and who would then be called the leader of the Shankar Party.

“The Father (Shiv) gives His introduction... You (complete Brahmins or PBKs) used to worship My ling (in Bhakti marg); you used to call it Supreme Soul (paramatma). ‘Param’ and ‘atma’ make ‘parmatma’. But they (the BKs of the Confluence Age) do not know as to what he (paramatma) does. They (BKs) just say that He (God Father Shiv) is omnipresent (through their actions of being human gurus-Dadis), and beyond name and form (as they have sent Father Shiv back to Paramdham, in 1969). Then it does not befit if you pour milk, etc. on it. He (the Supreme Soul, Prajapita-Shankar) has a form, this is why they pour (milk) on him (in Bhakti marg, in remembrance of this), don’t they? He (paramatma or Supreme Soul, Prajapita-Shankar) cannot be called incorporeal (as he is the permanent corporeal Chariot, of Parampita Shiv).” [Mu 18.06.09]

Roy

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by shivsena » 11 Mar 2012

Roy wrote:
"... it cannot be said that Shiv enters Shankar, like you (BKs unintentionally) say(imply) Shiv-Shankar (when you call ShivBaba's Advance Party, the Shankar Party)... who told you (BKs) that Shiv-Shankar are one?"
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

It is most amazing to note how easily and cleverly you have shifted the blame on BKs for what you are preaching....but i guess nothing new.....BKs are preaching omnipresence of God by saying that shiv is point of light in Paramdham above and they shift the blame on the outside world for preaching omnipresence of God.....and PBKs themselves preach that shiv is going to be revealed as Shankar, but blame the bk world for shooting the same belief.....i guess that it is easier to blame others than stand up to your beliefs.....also by shifting the blame, i just do not know who is deceiving whom.

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Shankar? What is his part? How is Shankar special

Post by Roy » 11 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:PBKs themselves preach that shiv is going to be revealed as Shankar
Dear Shivsena Bhai

If the PBKs were saying that Shiv is going to be revealed as Shankar, that would be mixing the two roles inaccurately, just as the BKs have done with their mistake... in fact you are probably revealing how the BKs also understand the PBKs' teachings. But the reality is, when one understands that Shiv is going to be revealed through Shankar; as the Advance Party is actually Father Shiv's party, not Shankar's... then both Shiv and Shankar are revealed together at the end, as Shiv-Shankar Bholenath... the Supreme God Father and the World Father together.

"By only one thing will you (PBKs) be well known. Creator Father Shiva will be known to everybody (at the end, when He is revealed through the body of Prajapita-Ram-Shankar). Then many (BKs) will come to you (PBKs)... the foundation of the sanyasis(BKs) will be shaken." [Mu 16.07.67]

"In the end, the whole world will turn to God Father (Shiv, in the body of His permanent Chariot, Prajapita-Ram-Shankar) for support. Through (Easy) RajYoga only (not the hatha Yoga taught by the BK sanyasis), God Father (Shiv) will be revealed to the world. The Father of Humanity (Prajapita) will be seen very clearly by the souls of all the religions (both in the unlimited and limited worlds)." [Av 28.12.78]

"The last bomb, i.e., the spiritual bomb, is the revelation of the Father(of Humanity, Prajapita). Whoever sees, whoever comes in contact (with him) will say just one thing, that the Father has come. The work of the Almighty Authority is going on directly. Sun of Knowledge (Prajapita-Ram-Shankar) has risen over the corporeal earth (by achieving an incorporeal stage, equal to Father Shiv's). This is incognito now (whilst Prajapita continues to make effort in remembrance of Father Shiv i.e. he remains in the seed stage, which is why Shankar is said to not have much have of a role to play). The Father(of Humanity) will be revealed before everyone through this last bomb (i.e. as the permanent corporeal Chariot, Prajapita-Ram-Shankar). The World (Almighty Authority) Father (or Father of Humanity, Prajapita) will be seen clearly by the world." [Av 28.12.78]


So God Father Shiv will be known to everyone, by being revealed through Shankar, who can actually be physically seen by the world. Thus two are revealed as Shiv Shankar Bholenath, not just one

Thus... "Son shows Father, Father shows son.'' - "Father is Shiv and Son is Shankar (i.e. the soul of Ram or Prajapita). Shankar is the first child. He reveals the Father Shiv and Father Shiv reveals the son Shankar in the world."

Roy

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