Mama saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis & AV.

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shivsena
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Re: Obvious truth

Post by shivsena » 17 Jun 2011

Roy wrote:
"You the best souls receive Shrimat sitting infront of the Father, not by inspiration or by touching." [AV 24.5.77]
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

If the whole knowledge and Shrimat is received by sitting in front of the Father physically, then why do Murlis frequently mention that you children should sit in front of Trimurti picture at amrut vela and churn deeply and you will understand everything....i think that the word "sanmukh" (ie in front of Father) has to be taken in an intellectual sense(behad ka sense) and not in a literal sense.....all Murlis when interpreted in literal sense take us away from the real meaning hidden in Murlis.....this is what i feel.

shivsena.

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by sita » 17 Jun 2011

Dear shivshakti,

Please, exchuse me, as i might have mistaken your idea. I came accros the Murli point that i never become a human and thought that if Mama had been the one who had spoken this, it would be a lie. But now i see you are speaking about the Supreme Soul as a separate soul to Mama. But Shivsena says Mama had entered Brahma Baba and spoken the Murlis. Then Mama might have spoken in her Murli via Brahma Baba, that i never become a human, that is contradictory.

Dear shivsena,

Yes, brother roy has outlined the main reason for coming in a body - narrating the knowledge. In the Murli it is said that you study through the organs of the ears, you listen through the ears. About the churning, i don't think it is something opposite to the knowledge - to churn the knowledge.

Also it is said, we will sit together, eat together, play together, do everything together and go together. I will take you on my eyelids. They could be, of course, unlimited eyelids, unlimited sitting in an atmic stage, unlimited eating the food of Yaad, unlimited playing with the jewels of knowledge, but as is with the case of any human soul also, the Supreme Soul also can only be recognized through a body and the way to recognize it is the knowledge that he gives, that no one else can give such knowledge and it must be only God who is giving this knowledge through this person.

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by Roy » 17 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:If the whole knowledge and Shrimat is received by sitting in front of the Father physically, then why do Murlis frequently mention that you children should sit in front of Trimurti picture at amrut vela and churn deeply and you will understand everything.....i think that the word "sanmukh" (ie in front of Father) has to be taken in an intellectual sense(behad ka sense) and not in a literal sense.....all Murlis when interpreted in literal sense take us away from the real meaning hidden in Murlis.....this is what i feel.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

The point you make is valid; Baba(Shiva) does instruct us to sit infront of the Trimurti picture at Amrit Vela, and that new points will emerge... but this advice(Shrimat) is given, face to face with the children, in the form of the Murli(oral teachings of the Supreme Fathere), via the human Chariot. There is no inspiration involved in the "basic" teachings of Gyan; Baba(Shiva) has to be in Sakar form(ShivBaba), to impart them. He will always encourage us to churn, so as to earn our status; and this process continues in Advance Knowledge. This is why there is some difference of opinion between PBKs; and this will be the case until Revelation, imo.

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by Sach_Khand » 18 Jun 2011

sita wrote: This is not from in the Murli. In the muri it is said about going to heaven and effort that it is not as easy as like going to your autie's home.
... It is said that knowledge is very easy. Recognizing the Father is not a problem, but maintaining relationship, in Yaad is where Maya comes. Maya does not come in The Knowledge. It is said that people recognize, feel enthusiastic and then go away, Baba never leaves children, but children leave.
1) I have read a Murli point which says that to be become "nischay buddhi in Baap" (Hindi) is not like your authie's home.

2) Recongnizing the Father itself is the greatest test. Why do we not maintain relationship with such a Father? It is because we doubt whether He is our true Father or are we getting fooled.

I heard a song in TV in Hindi (from film ARTH),
"Tum itna kyon muskara rahe ho
Kya gum hai jo chhupa rahe ho ..."

And I thought that this is what some children do. The doubts within make some children more agressive towards others who openly question about their doubts in recogising Father. And those some children just make show off about their Nischay (Hindi) or faithfulness in Fahter and this makes them stubborn. In erality those who recognise Father are carefree emperors. This is my opinion and we are our best judge.

3) In Murli it is also said that knowledge is also for Yoga or Yaad. Understanding or recognising Father is also Gnyaan. And Maya interferes here. It makes us egoistic or fearful and we become aggressive or hide our doubts. Unless we have fear and ego within that itself mean that we have not understood or recognised Father. We can boast of oursleves, but will it really help us? We are our best judge.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by sita » 18 Jun 2011

Therefore I personally feel that instead of breaking our heads and/or trying to break others heads to find out the Yagya history it is better to read the muralis. Focus on the muralis and Av Vanis...
Dear shivshakti,

In the Murli it is said that i cannot be achived through study of scriptures. I come and introduce myself. On the path of Bhakti they say that through study of scriptures one can know God, but no one can know me like this,because only when i peronally come in front of you can i give you my own introduction. By saying that we should study the Murlis to attain God we ask people to do bahakti. Knowledge is the introduction of the Father. It is to tell where is the Father, it is simple informtion where no effort is required. If one accepts or not we are not responsiblefor this. One may accept with one word, one may not accept with hundreds. It is said that we have to look for such souls who accept the knowledge from one word, they belong to our clan. If we convert someone violently, through persuation, he will shed blood of thoughts later in the knowledge, leave and make others leave. This is an easy path. Easy Raja Yoga and knowledge, and the path of Bhakti is the path of hard work and sorrow. They say there that do effort and you will have attainment, but they cannot even present the result of their own effort. To what conclusion have you reache by reading the Murlis. Where is God, who is God. If you have some result why don't you present this, but ask people to make effort, that they have made effort for thousands of yers and are exhausted and don't like to do effort anymore. And how can one know God by ones's own mind, without him coming and introducyiong, himself. This will be bkahti only. This path is for them who cannot do any effort anymore and cannot churn and cannot find God on their own, and it is easy. Knowledge is given ready-made, we just have to study. And study is face to face. Gyan comes from one. Bhakti come from many. Initially there is one God, one source of knowledge. Later, though teaching of people, various sects get introduced.

Anyone can subscribe to the idea that one is about to reach some intellectial superiority and post, through ones' own churning, but this knowledge is about the poor mothers of India, who does not even have wordly education, so what about them. Are they to wait for the able ones to give them result of their own churnning, or will they get jewels of knowledge by God, or are they also not worthy to high post as everyone else. Why do you make the easy difficult.


Dear Sach_Khand,

Everyone is subject to the cycle of gaining and losing faith, and it is a wonder, we never lose faith in our phisical Father, but we do in the spiritual Father. It is said that we gain from our phisical Father, phisical attainment and from the spiritual Father we have much more attainment, still we forget. We remember there where we have benefit, so probably we forget the benefit from Yaad. It is the main subject, but of course in order to have Yaad we have to have knowledge. But i don't believe the firmness of our faith is indicative for the truthfulness of the recognition. One can loose faith in the truth or one can be firm in the falsehood also.

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by Roy » 18 Jun 2011

I think these two Murli quotes, pretty much capture the problems we face in Gyan...

“You children have come here to study face to face with the Father. You listen to the direct versions of the Father. The Father does not give indirect knowledge. Knowledge is received directly. The Father is required to come. He says – I have come to meet the sweet children. You call me – ‘O BapDada’. The Father too gives a response – ‘O children’; now remember me nicely; do not forget me. You will face many obstacles of Maya. They will make you leave the studies and will make you body conscious; this is why - be alert. This is the true satsang (spiritual gathering or company of truth) – to rise. All those satsangs etc. cause downfall. The company of truth is received only once; the company of falsehood is received many times in many births.” [Mu 09.04.09]
“Many children get confused on seeing the ordinary form; they start speaking in an opposite way. Maya slaps even the nice children. They think – the incorporeal one is everything. That is alright, isn’t it? Had the incorporeal one not been there, how could I or you have existed? But the incorporeal one certainly requires a Chariot, doesn’t He? What can He do without a Chariot? What can ShivBaba do? Only when He comes in a Chariot that you can meet Him. (It is said that) “I shall listen only to you, I shall sit only with you.” So, the Chariot is certainly required, isn’t it? OK, remember the incorporeal without the corporeal and show. Will you get knowledge through inspiration? Then why did you come to me in the first place? This Baba also says that the inheritance has to be obtained from ShivBaba. ShivBaba says I sit in this ordinary body and teach. Knowledge is certainly required, isn’t it? The brains of very nice children get twisted. No sooner than they open two-four centers they become egotistic. Then they keep speaking in an opposite way. Then sometimes it even comes to their intellect that whatever they spoke was not proper. Then they repent. Baba says how will I explain without the corporeal (medium)? There is no question of inspiration in this at all.” [Mu 22.09.07]


I have found in Gyan, the biggest threat to my faith, is the lack of faith in myself, and my own understanding or belief. Maya in the form of ego, is obviously the root of this fear, as Sanjeev Bhai pointed out in his post. The fear of being wrong, can be very undermining; and can stop you from truly immersing yourself in something, or cause you to "bale out", if things sometimes don't seem right, or don't go according to plan. If this fear is allowed to take root and grow, you are big trouble; because in no time, Maya will have you out of Gyan, and you'll be flat on your back, dazed and confused(or much worse).

When it comes to remembrance, it is just so easy to get caught up in daily life; and the force of one's habits or sanskars, can be very powerful at times. Unless we are really determined, and have a lot of love and faith; the toing and froing can be very wearing; and it just seem like too much trouble and hassle sometimes. This is why Baba(Shiva) says, this knowledge is not like going to your aunties house. We are involved in a marathon race, which takes much patience and perseverance, plus many other qualities... we also have to maintain our faith whilst all this is going on, which can be watered down and lost, along the way. We are in a war of attrition, with Maya(five vices)!

Roy

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by sita » 18 Jun 2011

It is also said that the Father comes and gives the meaning of all the scriptures. It is not that we come to know by ourselves.

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by shivsena » 18 Jun 2011

Dear shivshakti.

I am producing a Murli point which proves what you have written at the beginning of the thread, that it is not Shiva who is narrating the Murlis but someone else.

Murli dated 28-10-08 says: "Murli se tumari sacchi kamai hoti hai...sirf yeh maloom pad jaye ki Murli kiski hai."
[ meaning: "Murlis are your true source of income, only you have to find out who spoke the Murlis."]

There was no need for shiv to speak the above point if Shiva himself was speaking the Murlis (as is understood by BKs-PBKs)... so the above point clearly indicates that there has to be a mystery(secret) behind who narrated the Murlis...and only those who know(unravel) this secret can understand the gems of knowledge therein and have true source of income.

shivsena.

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by Roy » 18 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:"Murlis are your true source of income, only you have to find out who spoke the Murlis."
In other words; who is the God of the Gita... Father Shiv or Krishna(DL)?

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by shivsena » 19 Jun 2011

Roy wrote: In other words; who is the God of the Gita... Father Shiv or Krishna(DL)?
Dear roy Bhai.

God of Gita is neither bindi Father shiv (as BKs believe) nor it is Krishna(Virendra Dev Dixit as PBKs believe) but it is personified ShivBaba(Mama no. 1 shivshakti) who will finally be revealed as Shri Shri ShivBaba and onch-te-onch ShivBaba (highest of the high and holiest of the holy Father)....this is my view.

shivsena.

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by sita » 19 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:
There was no need for Shiv to speak the above point if Shiva himself was speaking the Murlis (as is understood by BKs-PBKs)... so the above point clearly indicates that there has to be a mystery(secret) behind who narrated the Murlis...and only those who know(unravel) this secret can understand the gems of knowledge therein and have true source of income.
In the Murlis it is said that at the time of Brahma Baba there was a test. He used to ask "Childen whose lap have you come to" Those who answered brahma's failed, those who answered ShivBaba's passed. It is a matter of what understanding do we have, what do we see in the one body, which soul.

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by Roy » 19 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:Murli dated 28-10-08 says: "Murli se tumari sacchi kamai hoti hai...sirf yeh maloom pad jaye ki Murli kiski hai." [ meaning: "Murlis are your true source of income, only you have to find out who spoke the Murlis."] There was no need for shiv to speak the above point if Shiva himself was speaking the Murlis (as is understood by BKs-PBKs
Dear Shivsena Bhai

This is an interesting point, but appears to be somewhat abridged. Would it be possible to quote it in English, within the context of the Murli in which it was contained; without any abridgement?

Roy

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by shivsena » 19 Jun 2011

Roy wrote: Dear Shivsena Bhai
This is an interesting point, but appears to be somewhat abridged. Would it be possible to quote it in English, within the context of the Murli in which it was contained; without any abridgement?
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

The above point is one continous statement and there is no abridgement.....i cannot quote it in English but i have translated it within brackets to the best of my ability.

shivsena.

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by Roy » 19 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:The above point is one continous statement and there is no abridgement.....i cannot quote it in English but i have translated it within brackets to the best of my ability.
Okay, thanks Bhai!

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Re: Obvious truth

Post by shivsena » 20 Jun 2011

sita wrote:
It is a matter of what understanding do we have, what do we see in the one body, which soul.
Everything in this Godly knowledge is a matter of understanding...that is how numbers will be made....i would like to know how you came to understand that Supreme shiv is present in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit and giving clarifications of Murlis and it is not the soul of Virendra Dev Dixit who is giving his own manmat.

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