Mama saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis & AV.

An open forum for all ex-BKs, BKs, PBKs, ex-PBKs, Vishnu Party and ALL other Splinter Groups to post their queries to, and debate with, any member of any group congenially.
User avatar
RudraPutra
Posts: 259
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To share knowledge along with the groups and to bring truth in front of everyone
with a hope that this might enlighten the truth in front of the joined members with an acknowledgement of knowing ShivBaba in an accurate form....
Contact:

Re: Obvious truth

Post by RudraPutra » 24 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote: If the whole knowledge and Shrimat is received by sitting in front of the Father physically, then why do Murlis frequently mention that you children should sit in front of Trimurti picture at amrut vela and churn deeply and you will understand everything....i think that the word "sanmukh" (ie in front of Father) has to be taken in an intellectual sense(behad ka sense) and not in a literal sense.....all Murlis when interpreted in literal sense take us away from the real meaning hidden in Murlis.....this is what i feel.
....dear Bhai, also the CHITRA is CHAITANYA.....this is what ADVANCE knowledge is.....unfortunately you are still basic...

User avatar
RudraPutra
Posts: 259
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To share knowledge along with the groups and to bring truth in front of everyone
with a hope that this might enlighten the truth in front of the joined members with an acknowledgement of knowing ShivBaba in an accurate form....
Contact:

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by RudraPutra » 24 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote: Murli dated 20-09-08 says: "Jagdamba Saraswati unka naam bhi balaa hai. Maa ke paas kitne milne aate thei, kyon ki uski Murli bahut acchi thi. Bacchiyaan bhi mahsoos karti hain ki Mama Murli acchi khainchti thi."
[" Jagdamba Saraswati is also famous. Many used to come to mother because her Murli was very good. Sisters also used to feel that Mama narrated nice Murlis."]
....also...bhi...what does that mean?
In 'n' number of Murli's it has been said
"Sabse jyaada balaa hai ShivBaba ka naam aur phir BRAHMA."....and
in few of the Murlis contains the SHIVSENA's quoted statements....
hence....
(SHIV+Ram) ShivBaba is different,Brahma is different and Mama is also different....
(SHIV+Ram) ShivBaba is famous,Brahma is famous and Mama is also famous....
but among these ShivBaba(SHIV+Ram) is GOD the actual PARAMPITA PARAMATMA and
rest of both (DL)BRAHMA and (Om Radhe)Mama are just purusharthi's.....of course number one for Satyug but not for Sangamyug....
....from this i would say no PBK would argue unless or untill you mix the ShivBaba and Mama....

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4318
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by shivsena » 25 Jun 2011

RudraPutra wrote:....from this i would say no PBK would argue unless or untill you mix the ShivBaba and Mama....
Please do not argue any further.
As per Vanis, i am trying to reveal Mama Saraswati as no. 1 shivshakti- karmatit farishta who will be revealed as personified ShivBaba and PBKs are trying to reveal a dehdhari VD as personified ShivBaba ... so let us wait and see who is right and wrong.

shivshakti
Posts: 39
Joined: 11 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: exchange of views of knowledge

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by shivshakti » 28 Jun 2011

Murli dated 20-3-02,page 3, 4th line from bottom of the page.

" Maata guru bigar koi ka uddhar ho na sake! kalash jagat maata ko miltha hai tho jagat maata hi guru hui na! aajkal sthriyo(women) ko bahuth maan dethe hai! baap bhi kehthe hai maata guru bigar mukti jeevanmukthi mil nahi sakthi! Tho jab maata dwara adopt ho tab jeevan mukthi mile! Maata ko guru samajna chahiye! bacche ko apna ahankar nahi rakna hai "

English Translation: " Without a mother guru no one can progress. World's Maata will only carry Kalash(container=knowledge container), therefore she can only be the guru! nowadays women get a lot of importance. Baap also says there is no " mukthi"(peace), " jeevan mukthi"(happiness) without mother guru. You can get jeevan mukthi only when you get adopted by the mother. Consider mother as guru. Kids should break their ego."

Apologize if English translation has missed any essence of the point.
Shivshakti

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4318
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by shivsena » 29 Jun 2011

Dear shivshakti.

Presenting a original Murli dated 21-6-64 which was revised on 24-6-03...which clearly shows that the Murli was narrated by "mateshwari" (written on top of the Murli).

Another Murli dated 24-6-65 revised on 24-6-10 also has "mateshwari" wirtten on top of the Murli, which clearly proves that before 1965 jun, it was mateshwari who was narrating the Murlis.

Murli-Mateshwari-1964-06-21.pdf
(40.49 KiB) Downloaded 175 times
Om-Radhe-Murli- 24-June2010.pdf
(731.79 KiB) Downloaded 142 times
======================================================

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by arjun » 29 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:Presenting a original Murli dated 21-6-64 which was revised on 24-6-03...which clearly shows that the Murli was narrated by "mateshwari" (written on top of the Murli).

Another Murli dated 24-6-65 revised on 24-6-10 also has "mateshwari" wirtten on top of the Murli, which clearly proves that before 1965 jun, it was mateshwari who was narrating the Murlis.
BKs have been presenting and reading Dadi Janaki's classes just like Murlis since many-many years. I was a BK more than 15 years ago. Even at that time one day of every week was devoted exclusively to reading Dadi Janaki's class at the BK center where I used to attend classes. So, it is hardly a surprise if BKWSU presents Om Radhey Mama's classes as Murlis on her death anniversary. That doesn't prove that Om Radhey Mama used to narrate Murlis before 1965.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: Mama saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by Roy » 29 Jun 2011

arjun wrote:That doesn't prove that Om Radhey Mama used to narrate Murlis before 1965.
I believe the following point, rules out the claim, that Mama was some all knowlegeable shakti, narrating the Sakar Murli, up to 1965.

"You can understand from the picture of the cycle that the Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul truly did give this knowledge. Radhe and Krishna are sitting in the Golden Age; they didn’t give themselves knowledge. There has to be someone else who can give knowledge. Someone must have had helped them pass. Who gave the knowledge for the attainment of a kingdom?" [Mu 27.11.02]

Roy

Sach_Khand
Posts: 571
Joined: 02 May 2010
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Seeking Truth and Truth only.

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by Sach_Khand » 29 Jun 2011

arjun wrote:BKs have been presenting and reading Dadi Janaki's classes just like Murlis since many-many years. I was a BK more than 15 years ago. Even at that time one day of every week was devoted exclusively to reading Dadi Janaki's class at the BK center where I used to attend classes. So, it is hardly a surprise if BKWSU presents Om Radhey Mama's classes as Murlis on her death anniversary. That doesn't prove that Om Radhey Mama used to narrate Murlis before 1965.
Following is some part of Mama's Murli
24/06/03
21/06/64
Morning Murli Mateshwari Madhuban
Sweet elevated versions to be read in class on the day of remembrance of sweet Jagadamba.
The eternal principles and laws of the world drama.
Song: My world is a small world…

Om Shanti. The unlimited Father who is knowledge-full has explained what you souls were originally and
what you have now become. ...
...
... Achcha.

To such sweetest, very good and sensible children of sweetest BapDada and the mother love, remembrance
and good morning. Achcha. Om Shanti.
1) Is Dadi Janaki's class also termed as Murli?
2) Does it also has a song in the beginning similar to Murlis?
3) And is the ending of Janki Dadai's class also have the Mother Love (still not Maat-Pita), rememberance and Good Morning?

The matter and it's presentation in the Mama's Murli is very similar to the ShivBaba's Murlis that we read.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

User avatar
RudraPutra
Posts: 259
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To share knowledge along with the groups and to bring truth in front of everyone
with a hope that this might enlighten the truth in front of the joined members with an acknowledgement of knowing ShivBaba in an accurate form....
Contact:

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by RudraPutra » 29 Jun 2011

Sach_Khand wrote: Following is some part of Mama's Murli

To such sweetest, very good and sensible children of sweetest BapDada and the mother love, remembrance
and good morning. Achcha. Om Shanti.
....what does the BapDada and MOTHER mean here, according to you.....

Sach_Khand
Posts: 571
Joined: 02 May 2010
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Seeking Truth and Truth only.

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by Sach_Khand » 29 Jun 2011

RudraPutra wrote:....what does the BapDada and MOTHER mean here, according to you....
It is better if my questions are answered first with respect to who narrated Murlis. BapDada can be discussed in different post.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4318
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by shivsena » 29 Jun 2011

Everybody seems to be diverting from main issue:
The word "mateshwari " wirtten on top of the Murlis....if this Murli is clarification of original Murli spoken by Shiva then where is that original Murli ....if it is existing then it has to be found out and if such a original Murli cannot be produced, then it means that Mama jagdamba(mateshwari) is narrator of Murlis....arjun Bhai compares it with janki Dadi narrating her classes....but the comparison is just not apt as janki Dadi never gave explanation of Murlis and they are just her versions of dharna.

The main point of argument is that if Mama is giving explanations of Murlis of Shiva before 1965, then those Murlis of Shiva also have to be produced(side by side) and if they are not produced(or existing), then it means that it is Mama mateshwari who gave the whole Gyan as it emerged in her part as paramatma(no. 1 shivshakti always combined with parampita)

shivsena.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11513
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by arjun » 30 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote:The main point of argument is that if Mama is giving explanations of Murlis of Shiva before 1965, then those Murlis of Shiva also have to be produced(side by side) and if they are not produced(or existing), then it means that it is Mama mateshwari who gave the whole Gyan as it emerged in her part as paramatma(no. 1 shivshakti always combined with parampita)
Just as very few classes of Om Radhey Mama have been made available by the BKs, very few Sakar Murlis narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba are available. But such Murlis are emerging. Few days ago ShivBaba narrated the clarification of a Murli from 1964 through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit at the local mini-Madhubans where I attend the classes. So, ShivBaba's Murlis narrated through Brahma Baba do exist and will come out before the Brahmin family.

User avatar
RudraPutra
Posts: 259
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To share knowledge along with the groups and to bring truth in front of everyone
with a hope that this might enlighten the truth in front of the joined members with an acknowledgement of knowing ShivBaba in an accurate form....
Contact:

Re: Mama Saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by RudraPutra » 01 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:Everybody seems to be diverting from main issue:
The word "mateshwari " wirtten on top of the Murlis....if this Murli is clarification of original Murli spoken by Shiva then where is that original Murli ....if it is existing then it has to be found out and if such a original Murli cannot be produced, then it means that Mama jagdamba(mateshwari) is narrator of Murlis....arjun Bhai compares it with janki Dadi narrating her classes....but the comparison is just not apt as janki Dadi never gave explanation of Murlis and they are just her versions of dharna.

The main point of argument is that if Mama is giving explanations of Murlis of Shiva before 1965, then those Murlis of Shiva also have to be produced(side by side) and if they are not produced(or existing), then it means that it is Mama mateshwari who gave the whole Gyan as it emerged in her part as paramatma(no. 1 shivshakti always combined with parampita)

shivsena.
....well according to Murli,Maa- JAGADAMBA - Saraswati- MATESHWARI etc. are the title names given to Om Radhey Mama...
but those are the titles....not the actual role player.....it has been clearly stated in Murli that "This Brahma is actually your jagadamba" but for the kanya-matayein,Om radhey Mama has been alloted the head responsible of female groups because Brahma was male...

hence female titles of BRAHMA has been assigned to Mama...
....so why the issue so much...."MAATESHWARI" is told to BRAHMA.....and suppose if this or any other title appears it's for BRAHMA and not for Mama imo...

moreover i have certain original Sakar Murli's in audio which clearly indicates the BRAHMA's voice....period is when Mama was alive....

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: Mama saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by Roy » 01 Jul 2011

RudraPutra wrote:....well according to Murli,Maa- JAGADAMBA - Saraswati- MATESHWARI etc. are the title names given to Om Radhey Mama...but those are the titles....not the actual role player.....it has been clearly stated in Murli that "This Brahma is actually your jagadamba" but for the kanya-matayein,Om radhey Mama has been alloted the head responsible of female groups because Brahma was male...hence female titles of BRAHMA has been assigned to Mama.....so why the issue so much...."MAATESHWARI" is told to BRAHMA.....and suppose if this or any other title appears it's for BRAHMA and not for Mama imo...moreover i have certain original Sakar Murli's in audio which clearly indicates the BRAHMA's voice....period is when Mama was alive....
Interesting points Rudra Bhai! I cannot accept that Mama was actually the narrator of Murlis, per se; there is just too much knowledge that disputes this. Most of us strongly believe, that only Shiva, the Father; is the true narrator of the Gita... this is the crux of this knowledge we study. Baba tells us, we have to prove this fact, to the world.

"The Father gives you such vast knowledge in order to prove that the Creator of the Gita is the Incorporeal Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul. The biggest mistake is that they have put Shri Krishna’s name in the Gita instead of the Father’s, the Purifier. You have to prove this. You have to create various yuktis for this. Show the difference between the praise of the Father and that of Shri Krishna." [Mu 27.11.02]


Then there is the question of who is jagadamba?

There is great praise of the Kumaris. Mama is the main one. That one is the Sun of Knowledge and this one is the incognito Mama (Brahma). Hardly anyone understands this secret. The temples created are also to that Mama. There is no temple to this incognito old Mama. They are the mother and Father in the combined form. [Mu 27.11.02]

My understanding, is that the true jagadamba(the Mama belonging to the sun dynasty, and who is still embodied, or in Sakar), in whose memory temples are created; is the Mama who at this point, is not "physically" within the Yagya... but at some point soon, must return, to complete Vishnu(for the 18 year practical part; between 2018, and 2036).

I will be reading the Murlis Shivsena Bhai posted, again soon; to look at them more closely. But whatever the truth is concerning them; Shrimat only eminates from Father Shiv... everyone else, is merely a student or effort maker!

The praise of Krishna is separate from the praise of the Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul. He is the prince of the Golden Age who gained his fortune of the kingdom by studying easy Raja Yoga. [Mu 27.11.02]

Roy

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: Mama saraswati--Omradhe: Narrator of Sakar Murlis.

Post by Roy » 02 Jul 2011

arjun wrote:BKs have been presenting and reading Dadi Janaki's classes just like Murlis since many-many years. I was a BK more than 15 years ago. Even at that time one day of every week was devoted exclusively to reading Dadi Janaki's class at the BK center where I used to attend classes. So, it is hardly a surprise if BKWSU presents Om Radhey Mama's classes as Murlis on her death anniversary. That doesn't prove that Om Radhey Mama used to narrate Murlis before 1965.
I have just been reading one of Mama's classes; and it is obvious that she and Father Shiv are totally separate souls, not "twinned souls"; with knowledge rising up in Mama naturally, which she narrated! In fact, i remember reading recently; that sometimes when Brahma Baba(DL) was unable to attend class; the Murli would be narrated beforehand, for Mama to read to the children. Either way, it is obvious; that whatever the truth is here; Mama herself, was never responsible for narrating Shrimat... only Father Shiv has ever been responsible for this, whoever the corporeal medium being used is.

I quote the following point once again, to confirm this...

"You can understand from the picture of the cycle, that the Supreme Father, the Supreme Soul truly did give this knowledge. Radhe(Mama) and Krishna(Brahma Baba) are sitting in the Golden Age; they didn’t give themselves knowledge. There has to be someone else who can give knowledge. Someone must have had helped them pass. Who gave the knowledge for the attainment of a kingdom?" [Mu 27.11.02]

The second half of this point is also interesting. Is Father Shiv simply asking a question He has just answered beforehand... or, is He referring to someone else, who helped Mama and Brahma, attain their status?

Roy

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests