Question for Shivsena and ex-pbks.

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fluffy bunny
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Question for Shivsena and ex-pbks.

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Jul 2011

I wanted to ask Shivsena a question in public, as I asked the same question to someone else in private and do not like to speculate or speak about other behind their back.

I think it is a good discipline never to say something about someone that you would not say to their face, and good teacher in life to say anything you have said and face the effect it has.

Shivsena, if you really does not believe in The Knowledge as it is taught by both the BKWSU and AIVV ... why do you remain so hooked on it? Why do you not just not let go and move on in life? Is there any chance that it is just a irresolvable mental obsession going round and round in your mind rather than anything of any importance?

We all know that The Knowledge, as taught by the BKWSU, is not true and has be re-written and re-edited by silly and dishonest humans. I also agree with you that "Advance Knowledge" also has failures and is at time illogical and inconsistent. That is a fact. As much as I appreciate his efforts and accept he has made a serious influence upon the BKWSU and suffered at their hands, some of Virendra Dev Dixit's responses are really disappointing and do not address the questions being asked.

Is there never a time when you think about just walking away from it all and becoming an ex-BK/PBK?

I, personally, think it might be good for you to step back and allow the BKs/PBKs to manage this forum ... as long as they allow you to continue posting as you wish. The forum needs updating and developing and you cannot do that alone. It requires a team working together do so.

It is good that there is somewhere for BKs and PBKs to get together, and it is fair that the PBKs have a place to work out their philosophy, even if it is currently wrong, because ultimately they will get to what is right in the end. I am afraid that you risk killing off the group spirit if you continue to go it alone your way.


Religion is a matter of faith. Most people are happy with illogical paradoxical beliefs. That is just the way it is. But it helps to allow people to fully express and explore what they believe in order to progress.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 10 Jul 2011

fluffy bunny wrote:I wanted to ask Shivsena a question in public, as I asked the same question to someone else in private and do not like to speculate or speak about other behind their back.
I think it is a good discipline never to say something about someone that you would not say to their face, and good teacher in life to say anything you have said and face the effect it has.

Dear bunny brother,

This is the spirit i like ....one must ask directly face to face and not behind their back and have the courage to speak, what one thinks to be the truth.
Shivsena, if you really does not believe in The Knowledge as it is taught by both the BKWSU and AIVV ... ? why do you remain so hooked on it?
I believe in the knowledge of both orgs, but i do not believe that they have interpreted the Murlis and Vanis correctly.....both are rightly playing their part as per this behad ka drama....i am certainly not hooked to it, but i have to duty towards the BKs and PBKs to make them aware of the fact that neither basic or advance knowledge is the last stop in spiritual knowledge and there is more to Godly knowledge than meets the eye.
Why do you not just not let go and move on in life.

since this is my life, where do i go from here. ("jeena yahan, marna yahan, isske sivaa jaana kahan")(meaning: Live here, Die here, where else to go.)

Is there any chance that it is just a irresolvable mental obsession going round and round in your mind rather than anything of any importance?
If you cannot see anything of importance in my posts then you are free to ignore them.
We all know that The Knowledge, as taught by the BKWSU, is not true and has be re-written and re-edited by silly and dishonest humans. I also agree with you that "Advanced Knowledge" also has failures and is at time illogical and inconsistent.
If you agree with the above fact that both knowledge are not the truth, then is it not your duty to make your fellow brothers aware of the same!!
That is a fact. As much as I appreciate his efforts and accept he has made a serious influence upon the BKWSU and suffered at their hands, some of Veerendra Dev Dixit's responses are really disappointing and do not address the questions being asked.
VD's efforts are certainly laudable as far as igniting the churning process of knowledge is concerned....but i will not agree that he has suffered at the hands of BKs so much as he has inflicted pain and mental agony to BKs in return...also in this respect i have seen PBKs suffering more than BKs due to Ak. Have you ever taken Advance Course and have you been in close contact with the pbk family to realise what repercussions Ak has had on their lives and how badly it has affected their personal lives and profession.....Unless you take the Advance Course personally and talk to senior PBKs and ex-PBKs only then you will understand why i have taken a stand to oppose the advance knowledge.
Is there never a time when you think about just walking away from it all and becoming an ex-BK/PBK?
I am an ex-BK/pbk, but i see no reason why i should be just walking away from all this Godly knowledge, when i devoted my whole life to the pursuit of truth.
Would you just walk away from something, which you have devoted all your life for ??? (just because few souls insist on the same)
I, personally, think it might be good for you to step back and allow the BKs/PBKs to manage this forum ... as long as they allow you to continue posting as you wish. The forum needs updating and developing and you cannot do that alone. It requires a team working together do so.
It is good that there is somewhere for BKs and PBKs to get together, and it is fair that the PBKs have a place to work out their philosophy, even if it is currently wrong, because ultimately they will get to what is right in the end. I am afraid that you risk killing off the group spirit if you continue to go it alone your way.
I feel that forum is working fine and each party has been given their own sub-forum also to present their ideas and each member is totally free to discuss anything anywhere (provided it is done in a relevant healthy manner)
BKs have their own forum and PBKs have their own websites to propagate Ak.....so I personally see no reason for stepping back to let BKs-PBKs manage this forum.

Religion is a matter of faith. Most people are happy with illogical paradoxical beliefs. That is just the way it is. But it helps to allow people to fully express and explore what they believe in order to progress.
I fully agree with your views about religion and faith...but what we are discussing on the forum is about " what is truth" and " what is untruth"....if BKs and PBKs openly say that they are preaching religion(philosophy) and not the truth, then i will stop opposing them.....i do not go to other religious forums to oppose them.....i am here solely because both BKs and PBKs claim that they are preaching the truth but imo, they are just preaching a philosophy.....BKs are preaching omnipresence of GOD by teaching that Shiva is a point of light nirakaar(which is already known to the world) and PBKs are preaching the philosophy of " atma so paramatma" by teaching that one deh-dhari becomes God.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by arjun » 15 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:PBKs are preaching the philosophy of " atma so paramatma" by teaching that one deh-dhari becomes God.
This is false. PBKs just believe that the soul of Confluence-Age Ram (i.e. Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) would become equal to Shiv in stage and hence the name Shiv and Shankar have been mixed up in the path of Bhakti. It has never been said that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit becomes God.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 16 Jul 2011

arjun wrote: This is false. PBKs just believe that the soul of Confluence-Age Ram (i.e. Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) would become equal to Shiv in stage and hence the name Shiv and Shankar have been mixed up in the path of Bhakti. It has never been said that Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit becomes God.
Ram(paramatma)never becomes equal to shiv(parampita) as it is said in Murlis that "Ram is shiv and shiv is Ram" (Shiv and Ram are always combined as shivshakti)....it is PBKs who believe that Ram and shiv as seperate souls and that is what is causing confusion amongst PBKs....they are subconciously doing the shooting of "Atma so paramatma"....One soul (Baba Dixit-Krishna) comes and does 7 days course and starts narrating his manthan and PBKs start thinking that he is equal to God....this is propagated as philosophy of "atma-so-paramatma" in Bhakti-marg.....if baba Dixit was paramatma part, then he should have never done the 7 days of Godly course from another soul and never churned on the knowledge for 3 years to know his part.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 16 Jul 2011

To rudraputra and sita.

If posts are addressed to you, then please answer relevantly otherwise all posts will be deleted.

shivsena.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 16 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:Ram(paramatma)never becomes equal to shiv(parampita) as it is said in Murlis that "Ram is shiv and shiv is Ram"
Dear Shivsena Bhai

If Father Shiv is called anything but Shiva, it means He is playing a role via a physical Chariot(i.e. a practical part in Sakar). So just as the part of Shankar is actually Father Shiv, so is the part of Ram. However; because Baba(Shiva) uses a physical costume to play these roles; the costume itself is attributed with the name of the role. Baba Dixit, eventually becomes bapsaman(complete incorporeal stage like Father Shiv), whilst being the Chariot for these roles to be played out; so he is attributed with these names, at this time in the Drama.

Having said this; i personally cannot attribute the term Parampita, to Baba Dixit; even when he becomes bapsaman - because Parampita denotes the position, of Father of all souls, with no Father above you. Baba Dixit is Prajapita(Father of Humanity); but imo, can never be called Parampita, as he can never become, Father of all souls; only Father Shiv can ever be this. However; Baba Dixit is entitled to be called Paramatma, because he is the supreme human soul; who through his supreme efforts, achieves an incorporeal stage equal to Father Shiv; who is, Parampita Paramatma.

Baba Dixit imo, is the no 1 Brahmin soul - and as such, makes the no 1 efforts, maintaining complete faith in Father Shiv, whilst becoming bapsaman over a period of about 50 years. He is therefore entitled, to be called, Paramatma, the supreme human soul. As an effort maker, he has to spin the cycle of self realisation; as he started out like all of us, at this point in the Drama, in a state of complete ignorance of the truth. This is the wonder of his role; that he goes from being the most impure degraded soul, to become Paramatma, following 50 years of effort making. This is much more inspiring imo, than the idea that the knowledge simply started to arise spontaneously in Mama, at some point in the Drama.

Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Rudraakash » 17 Jul 2011

Shivsena & Shiv shakti plz reply about above post

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 17 Jul 2011

Rudraakash wrote:What will u say abt that brahma baba was near about 50 your old in 1936, which is shown in GYANAMRIT, bt why BKs are saying that he was born on 1876
This is because, if he was only 50 years old in 1936/7, he couldn't have been the first Brahma(he wouldn't have reached retirement age), as BKs would have us believe. This would also mean, he is not the true Prajapita Brahma.

I've enclosed a link for to read older posts on this subject, that may contain all the answers you need.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=736

Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by arjun » 17 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:Ram(paramatma)never becomes equal to Shiv(parampita) as it is said in Murlis that "Ram is Shiv and Shiv is Ram" (Shiv and Ram are always combined as shivshakti)
This is your imagination. It has never been said in the Murlis that Ram is Shiv and Shiv is Ram. Murlis always say that His only name based on his soul (not on a body like other human souls) is only SHIV. But He has been given many names in the path of Bhakti based on the actions that He performs through His corporeal medium in the Confluence Age.
it is PBKs who believe that Ram and Shiv as seperate souls and that is what is causing confusion amongst PBKs....they are subconciously doing the shooting of "Atma so paramatma"
It is not the PBKs but you doing the shooting of 'atma so parmatma' (soul is Supreme Soul) by presenting a formless OmRadhey Mama as Shivshakti.
if Baba Dixit was paramatma part, then he should have never done the 7 days of Godly course from another soul and never churned on The Knowledge for 3 years to know his part.
Then why does Baba repeatedly say that you would become chakravarti raja (a king who conquers the world) by becoming swadarshan chakradhari (one who churns about his past present and future and about the Godly knowledge)? I think you too project yourself as a great churner of knowledge who has realized that the BK and PBK knowledge is false based on your churnings. If Baba Dixit cannot become no.1 soul by churning the knowledge, neither can you become part of the rosary of 108 without churning the knowledge. We should check what we are doing ourselves before criticizing others.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by arjun » 17 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:To rudraputra and sita.

If posts are addressed to you, then please answer relevantly otherwise all posts will be deleted.
Shivsena Bhai,
I don't know why you are getting angry and deleting posts, but instead of deleting posts it would be better if you request the concerned member to desist from writing in the 'ex-PBKs only' section. In other Sections, they can be allowed to express their views.
If you start deleting everybody's posts (rudraputra has informed me that his posts were deleted despite being according to rules), then this forum would get a bad name and will not attract any positive contributions.
However, you are free to decide as an Admin.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by RudraPutra » 18 Jul 2011

arjun wrote: I don't know why you are getting angry and deleting posts, but instead of deleting posts it would be better if you request the concerned member to desist from writing in the 'ex-PBKs only' section. In other Sections, they can be allowed to express their views.
...yes,i also want the thing to happen in a a gentleman way,where everyone would respect the decision....
Shivsena Bhai,
Since been away from the forum,i might be unaware of the new rules or whatever been implemented and for whatever the reason is.....but atleast this site has been famous for its tremendous support for all types of mentalities with bold scope....
why to put it in wrong way so that anyone feel bad for the acts administrative section....
i have a great respect for this site as well as for the members too inspite of all those frustrations and emotional misbehavior happened between us...but what i want here is atleast you should have given us warning....but that did not happen....

i had just answered the post where you commented on PBK's and asked you few questions related to the same....since you poked your finger on PBK's concept,i answered you considering my rights to withstand with PBK concepts....just tell me frankly shivsena Bhai,did i wrote anything which shows disrespect for anyone or anything or did i say something which was out of law?....if yes than please tell me my fault,unless or untill i know my fault in posts how could i assure you the non repetition of the same....?
If you start deleting everybody's posts (rudraputra has informed me that his posts were deleted despite being according to rules), then this forum would get a bad name and will not attract any positive contributions.
thanx arjun Bhai and to all admin members....including Shivsena Bhai....this is not for me,but for the site...!!!
However, you are free to decide as an Admin.
....hope you understand what i felt,Shivsena Bhai....but you have your own way and still i give you my wishes to administrate this site with selfless and neutral behavior.....it is really a tough job,i can understand!!!

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 18 Jul 2011

RudraPutra wrote: ....hope you understand what i felt,Shivsena Bhai....but you have your own way and still i give you my wishes to administrate this site with selfless and neutral behavior.....it is really a tough job,i can understand!!!
Dear rudraputra.

All my decisions have been taken in the interest of the forum to have a healthy discussion only....but i see PBKs breaking all limits of decency by passing individual unhealthy comments when somebody posts anything against AK....it is OK to defend decently with Murli points but to pass individual intimidating remarks is not at all called for....if some ex-pbk is passing some comments on Baba Dixit, it is taken as personal insult and PBKs respond as if they have taken for granted that Baba Dixit is their Satguru who is speaking nothing but the truth....Baba dixit has been the cause(seed) of all controversies in this Godly knowledge right from 1976 (Are PBKs aware this fact)... and everyone who has experienced this has a right to say that baba dixit is not personified God (because God does not come to this earth to raise controversies but to solve them)....but PBKs always make a big issue about it.....so to curb this i have been forced to take actions and i seperated the forums for this reason....but i see that, first the battle ground was pbk-forum and now the battle ground is ex-pbk forum...nothing seems to have changed....and i see only arguments and arguments and no attempt to understand other's viewpoint.... as you said it is a tough job and i have been neutral and tried to satisfy everyone on the forum...now it is PBKs turn to be neutral and see objectively whether Ak is the final truth or not and defend Ak philosophy in a decent manner.

shivsena.

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by Roy » 18 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote:Baba dixit has been the cause(seed) of all controversies in this Godly knowledge right from 1976
Truth is often controversial... people have been killed for daring to state it!

Roy

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by shivsena » 19 Jul 2011

Roy wrote:Truth is often controversial... people have been killed for daring to state it!
Roy
So let us all wait and see whether the truth(AK) is what baba Dixit is teaching or whether the 108 shivshaktis are the truthful children of the truthful Father.(no. 1 shivshakti.)

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Re: Question for Shivsena

Post by satyaprakash » 19 Jul 2011

shivsena wrote: whether the truth(AK) is what Baba Dixit is teaching or whether
Dear Shivsena,
I like your way of managing this forum. You are impartial and allowing every one to express what they want. You are no doubt spending a lot of your precious time on this. Many thanks for this.
As far as Baba Dixit is concerned, I see neither advancement nor knowledge in his talks (call AK as NANK!). He is full of hatred towards BKs and most of his figures and statistics are to say that BKs are wrong.
The BK's philosophy is very hollow and very false no doubt, but not because of the reasons that Baba VD is giving.
Dixit Baba does not know his own philosophy? Listen to some of his CDs and you will go mad with confusion. There is no meaning, so jist and no logic in what he talks! No doubt he can produce another thousand VCDs and no one will know what he wants to say! It is very funny that his followers believe that these are words of Siva!
Sorry, I do not have any specific question for you- please carry on with your work!
Best wishes.

Satya.

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