Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

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Roy
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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 16 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:According to AK, Shiv+prajapita is ShivBaba(not BapDada)...and prajapitaRam+ Krishna is BapDada....so other other half of the question still remains: who are the children for whom the avaykt BapDada(Ram+Krishna) are waiting in sukhmavatan.
I believe i've already addressed that question.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 22 Mar 2012

Dear roy Bhai.

The avaykt Vani of 20th march is all about : "Follow Father...Follow brahmabap and become like brahmabap".
Can you please share your views about who is this brahmabap whom we have to follow and become-like ??

shivsena.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 24 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:The avaykt Vani of 20th march is all about : "Follow Father...Follow brahmabap and become like brahmabap". Can you please share your views about who is this brahmabap whom we have to follow and become-like ??
Dear Shivsena Bhai

As i do not consider Brahma Baba as the true Father, then the only Father Brahma to follow is Prajapita Brahma, the true Brahmabap! That is, we have to become incorporeal whilst remaining in our old bodies, like Prajapita.

"It is sung constantly to follow the mother(Brahma Baba in your actions) and the Father(Prajapita), in becoming bodiless-incorporeal. You have to show the right path to every soul. Now it is your final 84th birth. You have the aim object of becoming a deity." [Mu 21.02.11]


Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 25 Mar 2012

Dear roy Bhai.

Murli 24-3-12 says: ''God-Father is praised, because certainly He would have done something. He liberates you from sorrow being in household. It is said King Janak attained liberation being in household .''

The above Murli mentions about king Janak who attained liberation(jeevan-mukti) in one second...can you please give your views about who is this king Janak ??

shivsena.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 25 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:The above Murli mentions about king Janak who attained liberation(jeevan-mukti) in one second...can you please give your views about who is this king Janak ??
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I know little about King Janak of the scriptures, although i read about how he lived in splendour and yet remained detached from it all, knowing that death could strike at any time. is not this how we are supposed to live as rajyogis, knowing that everything around us is about to come to an end, so we should become detached whilst living in our households.

Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 26 Mar 2012

Roy wrote:
I know little about King Janak of the scriptures, although i read about how he lived in splendour and yet remained detached from it all, knowing that death could strike at any time.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Thanks for your views.

IMO, King janak was not a single person who lived in household(in the broad drama) and got jeevan-mukti in one second.....King janak is symbolic of those 108 king souls who attained jeevan-mukti(fruition) in one second in Sangamyug by their gupt purusharth of remembering their spiritual parents(no. 1 shivshakti jagdamba) while remaining in their household and living a detached life from all the 3 worlds.....108 king souls like Janak never surrender to any dehdhari in any ashram.

shivsena.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 28 Apr 2012

Dear roy Bhai and pbk brothers.

What is the difference between avaykt BapDada and ShivBaba.

Please share your views.
shivsena.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 30 Apr 2012

shivsena wrote:What is the difference between avaykt BapDada and ShivBaba
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Imo, Avyakt BapDada refers to Avyakt Brahma being in the remembrance of ShivBaba, when he enters Dadi Gulzar. ShivBaba is corporeal BapDada, which since 1976, is the combination of incorporeal Father Shiv, in the body of Prajapita-Ram.

"The name ShivBaba is based on the body." [Mu 24.03.01]

Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 01 May 2012

Roy wrote:
Imo, Avyakt BapDada refers to Avyakt Brahma being in the remembrance of ShivBaba, when he enters Dadi Gulzar. ShivBaba is corporeal BapDada, which since 1976, is the combination of incorporeal Father Shiv, in the body of Prajapita-Ram.
Roy
Do you mean to say that avaykt BapDada is combination of avaykt brahma(supposed to be incomplete angel--DL) + shiv ... and ShivBaba is combination of Ram(Dehdhari Baba Dixit) + shiv . ????

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 02 May 2012

shivsena wrote:Do you mean to say that avaykt BapDada is combination of avaykt brahma(supposed to be incomplete angel--DL) + shiv ... and ShivBaba is combination of Ram(Dehdhari Baba Dixit) + shiv . ????
The only thing i know for sure is that BapDada refers to at least two souls, and that these two souls are 1 of three or four possible combinations.

Shiv+Krishna
Shiv+Ram
Ram+Krishna
Shiv+Ram+Krishna

Which of these combinations apply, appears to depend upon the context in which BapDada is spoken of.

"BapDada is never the name of a single person." [06.11.71]

ShivBaba has confirmed in AK that Ram+Krishna is definately BapDada, and this may be backed up by the following point...

"Both Baap(Father) and Dada(elder brother) are combined. Twins are born, isn’t it? Both their roles are combined." [15.6.72]


... although this point could mean could mean Shiv+Ram, as Ram is the true elder brother...

"(The true) Elder brother is always treated as Father. Here everything depends on knowledge. Whoever has more knowledge is supposed to be elder. Although he (Prajapita-Ram) may be young (he was only 34 in 1976) , but if he is clever in knowledge (no 1), then we think that he is going to become Vishwanath(Lord of the Universe, or World Emperor Shri Narayan of the Confluence Age)." [ Mu 03.05.76]

But then these point when looked at as a whole, may to point to Shiv+Krishna being BapDada...

"Father (Shiv) takes the support of (Prajapita) Brahma's body. He has to come in Bharat(Prajapita Brahma) only (to play the role of Father, or the Sun of Knowledge from 1976). Father's birth (or revelation) is also in Bharat(Prajapita-Ram's body) only. Brahma(Baba-DL) is also in Bharat(Prajapita-Ram's body) only (after his death in 1969)." [Mu 27.07.73]

"The Father (Shiv) does not give sorrow to anybody. Father (Shiv) always gives happiness. The one(Brahma Baba-DL) who gives sorrow is born (or revealed) in Bharat(Prajapita-Ram's body), and the One (Father Shiv) who give happiness is also born (revealed) in Bharat(Prajapita-Ram's body). Bharatwasis (Confluence Age Brahmins) celebrate Shiv-Jayanti, but do not understand its meaning." [Mu 08.12.01]

"Both Baap(Father) and Dada(elder brother) are combined. Twins are born (revealed through Prajapita-Ram from 1969), isn’t it? Both their roles are combined (mother and Father, in the body of Prajapita-Ram from 1969; which is illustrated or remembered in Bhakti-marg, the path of devotion of the Copper and Iron Ages, as Ardhanarishvar; the Lord who is half woman, who is said to be a living idol of the path of the household)." [15.06.72]

"Do not be afraid: Backbone BapDada, will be revealed through some person(Shankar-Prajapita-Ram) when the time comes; and to some Brahmins(co-operative souls or PBKs who recognised at this time, from 1969, that Shiv was entering Prajapita, along with Avyakt Brahma), He is being revealed even now." [Av 16.01.75]


Then there is this point, which imo appears to imply that Shiv+Ram is BapDada also...

"Shankar is also a deity. They(BKs) have then combined/mixed Shiva and Shankar (i.e. done this shooting, by saying it is only Shankar who teaches the PBKs). Now Father says, 'I have entered into this body (of Prajapita-Ram, to play the role of Shankar)'. Therefore, you(PBKs) say Baap-Dada, but they(BKs) say Shiv-Shankar(i.e. they mix or combine Shiv and Shankar into one being, by not recognising that Shiv Himself is playing the role of Shankar, through the body of Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 11.02.75]

I am sorry i cannot give you a definitive answer, because at this present time, i haven't got one.

Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 05 May 2012

Roy wrote: The only thing i know for sure is that BapDada refers to at least two souls, and that these two souls are 1 of three or four possible combinations.
Shiv+Krishna
Shiv+Ram
Ram+Krishna
Shiv+Ram+Krishna

Which of these combinations apply, appears to depend upon the context in which BapDada is spoken of.
Roy
So the situation is:

BKs believe that BapDada means shiv+Krishna and ShivBaba is nirakaar bindi.

Ak teaches that avaykt BapDada is Ram(VD)+Krishna(DL) and ShivBaba is shiv+Ram(VD).

You feel that the meaning of BapDada changes as per the context.
Many PBKs, whom i have talked to, are also not sure of who is BapDada.

In one of the avaykt messages in 2006, it is said that uptill now no one has recognised BapDada.

In Bhakti-marg Shiv is always combined with Ram, never with Krishna and the word ''shivram'' is more commonly used than ''shivkrishna''.

Imo, BapDada is the combined name for Shiv+Ram (no. 1 soul shivshakti ie Mama)....and both ''BapDada'' and ''ShivBaba'' and "parampita paramatma " are synonymous names indicating the combined form of shiv+Ram.(shiv+no. 1 shakti-Mama...the first soul to have become avaykt Farishta.)

shivsena

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 06 May 2012

Dear Shivsena Bhai... another point on this topic...

“Both Bap and Dada are the servants of children. You have two servants. Highest among all, i.e. ShivBaba(Incorporeal Father Shiv) and then Prajapita Brahma(Ram).” [Mu 02.06.05]

This point confirms for me, that BapDada, as well as referring to Ram and Krishna, also refers to Shiv and Ram.

Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 07 May 2012

Roy wrote:
This point confirms for me, that BapDada, as well as referring to Ram and Krishna, also refers to Shiv and Ram.
Roy
According to you, avaykt BapDada is Ram+Krishna and corporeal BapDada is shiv+Ram.(VD).
So which combination is to be remembered ??

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 07 May 2012

shivsena wrote:According to you, avaykt BapDada is Ram+Krishna and corporeal BapDada is shiv+Ram.(VD). So which combination is to be remembered ??
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I haven't said that i thought Avyakt BapDada is a combination of Ram+Krishna... i said that ShivBaba has confirmed that Ram+Krishna is BapDada. I have been thinking that Avyakt BapDada is the combination of Krishna in the remembrance of Shiv, when he enters Dadi Gulzar... although the term could mean something else too... for example, remembering BapDada in a subtle way, as in, when one is not in his immediate physical presence.

As to which combination is to be remembered, that for me is more simple. There is only one combination that will bring success, and that is the two fathers... Shiv in the body of Ram.

"Shiva is Incorporeal Father, Prajapita Brahma(Ram) is corporeal Father. Now you are obtaining inheritance from the Incorporeal Father (Shiv) through the corporeal (Father, Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 14.01.00]

"Elder brother (Dada or Brahma Baba) can’t be equal to Father... so the inheritance can’t be received through the brother (only through the Father, Prajapita, who emulates Father Shiv's complete incorporeal stage at the end, whilst remaining in his corporeal body)." [Av 03.12.83]


Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 20 May 2012

Roy wrote:
As i do not consider Brahma Baba as the true Father, then the only Father Brahma to follow is Prajapita Brahma, the true Brahmabap! That is, we have to become incorporeal whilst remaining in our old bodies, like Prajapita.
Roy
If you believe that true Father is prajapita brahma(Ram--VD according to PBKs) and we have to follow him, then why it is taught in AK that "do not follow Shankar". ( i presume that prajapita and Shankar are one and the same as per PBKs)

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