What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

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shivsena
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What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 05 Jan 2012

Dear roy Bhai.

What is the aim of Godly study ??...is it to become Devta or Farishta !!!

Can you please share your views.

shivsena.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 05 Jan 2012

shivsena wrote:What is the aim of Godly study ??...is it to become Devta or Farishta !!!
Dear Shivsena Bhai

First of all i would like to present a few Avyakt Vani points on this subject...

"Angels mean those who are detached from the physical body, those who always have a body of light. Angels mean kings of the physical body." [Av 05.02.09]

“Farishta (angel) means those who remain detached from this vicious world, i.e. vicious atmosphere, vicious vibrations, vicious (human) nature & resolves, vicious vision or thoughts. They remain detached from all these matters. They always remain beloved for Father and Father remains beloved for them ... Just as Father comes to perform actions by entering into a human body while remaining detached, similarly angelic souls also perform actions by entering into the body for the purpose of service and not as a part of karmic bondage and they become detached whenever they wish. Are you free from such karmic bondages? This is only called farishta (angel).” [Av 17.10.81]

"Do you think that we should also leave the body and become Avyakt? Do not follow in this matter. Father Brahma became Avyakt so that you could see the example of Avyakt form and follow easily." [Av 13.03.81]


I think that in the Confluence Age, the aim is to become an Angel(Farishta), which ultimately allows you to become a complete Deity in this very birth (nar to Narayan) after 2036, when the body can also become pure. Although i believe a complete soul in the Confluence Age, can be termed either as an Angel or a Deity. This is because ShivBaba refers to Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar as deities.

Thus imo, the ultimate aim is to become a Deity, nar to Narayan in this very birth... but this can only be achieved by becoming an Angel or Farishta first.

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 06 Jan 2012

Roy wrote:Thus imo, the ultimate aim is to become a Deity, nar to Narayan in this very birth... but this can only be achieved by becoming an Angel or Farishta first.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Thanks for your views and quotes.
So which is higher stage ? ... Devta stage is higher or farishta(body of light and might) is superior !!!!

Please share your views.
shivsena.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 08 Jan 2012

shivsena wrote:So which is higher stage ? ... Devta stage is higher or farishta(body of light and might) is superior !!!!
Imo, the complete Angelic stage, which according to the Avyakt Vani, is a stage of being a King or Master over the physical body... is the same as the Confluence Age Deity stage. They are both stages of complete soul consciousness, whilst remaining in the degraded physical body. However, these are both higher than the stage of a complete deity in the Golden Age, as they from the word go are declining, due to a lack of knowledge.

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 08 Jan 2012

Roy wrote: Imo, the complete Angelic stage, which according to the Avyakt Vani, is a stage of being a King or Master over the physical body... is the same as the Confluence Age Deity stage. They are both stages of complete soul consciousness, whilst remaining in the degraded physical body. However, these are both higher than the stage of a complete deity in the Golden Age, as they from the word go are declining, due to a lack of knowledge.
Roy
If angelic stage is higher stage than the Deity stage of Golden Age, then why does Baba Dixit not emphasise the same in advance knowledge teachings.....whenever PBKs are asked whether they wish to become farishtas(angels) or devtas, they always reply that they wish to become devtas and not angels.

Which soul attains the complete angelic stage first ??
Please share your views.
shivsena.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 09 Jan 2012

shivsena wrote:If angelic stage is higher stage than the Deity stage of Golden Age, then why does Baba Dixit not emphasise the same in advance knowledge teachings.....whenever PBKs are asked whether they wish to become farishtas(angels) or devtas, they always reply that they wish to become devtas and not angels.
BKs think, that as soon as they reach the complete angelic stage, they'll shed their corporeal form like Brahma Baba supposedly did, and be reborn into the Golden Age. This is not the aim of a PBK though... the emphasis is on becoming a Deity in this very birth... nar to Narayan, the Angelic stage is a stepping stone to this.
shivsena wrote:Which soul attains the complete angelic stage first ??
"Angels mean kings of the physical body." [Av 05.02.09]

"Father had explained that Prajapita Brahma(Baba Dixit), who is a bodily being now... he only becomes subtle(bapsaman - completely incorporeal)." [Mu 23.01.84]

"Prajapita Brahma(Baba Dixit) is very great, is not it? He is called next to God (or bapsaman)." [Mu 20.11.76]

"When this Prajapita Brahma(Baba Dixit) who is corporeal now, becomes complete (100% soul conscious at the end), destroys all his sins, then he becomes an angel (a King within his old degraded body)." [Mu 20.01.78]


Although it is Brahma Baba who reaches his complete stage first; he does not have a body of his own, and therefore cannot be called a complete Angel... he doesn't become a king of the physical body. The only soul to do this 100%, is Prajapita Brahma.

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 13 Jan 2012

Roy wrote: This is not the aim of a PBK though... the emphasis is on becoming a Deity in this very birth... nar to Narayan, the Angelic stage is a stepping stone to this.?
Roy

Dear roy Bhai.

I do not understand...first you say that angelic stage is complete stage and then you say that angelic stage is a stepping stone to become nar-se Narayan....Are not farishtas(angels who can fly) superior to devtas(who just inculcate divine virtues but have no powers(ashta-shakti) to fly and spread the message of God.)

shivsena.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 13 Jan 2012

shivsena wrote:I do not understand...first you say that angelic stage is complete stage and then you say that angelic stage is a stepping stone to become nar-se Narayan.....Are not farishtas(angels who can fly) superior to devtas(who just inculcate divine virtues but have no powers(ashta-shakti) to fly and spread the message of God.)
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I believe the complete angelic stage is the same as the Confluence Age Deity stage, so both have the same powers. It is the deities of the Golden Age who are lesser beings, even though their bodies will be pure at this time.

Imo, the complete Angelic stage, or Confluence Deity stage, is a stage for service until final destruction, that only the 8, shortly followed by the 108(or remaining 100) will attain initially. But the overall aim of RajYoga is to become a Deity in the Golden Age, without having to be re-born into it, via another deity... i.e. to receive the inheritance of heaven in this very birth, not the next. However, the complete angelic stage has to be attained first; and for all but the 8, then the 108, this will take various amounts of time for the remaining 450,000 to achieve, up until final destruction, in 2036.

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by cal » 14 Jan 2012

Roy wrote:But the overall aim of RajYoga is to become a Deity in the Golden Age
Dear Brother Roy:
BTW, how do we do the Raj Yoga? What is the method for Yoga?
Cal

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 14 Jan 2012

cal wrote:BTW, how do we do the Raj Yoga? What is the method for Yoga?
Dear Cal Bhai

I am not sure why you are asking me this question... but i believe the accurate method of RajYoga, is to remember the Incorporeal Father Shiv, in the corporeal body of Prajapita Brahma. We have to become kings of the body or angels, and this is achieved by remembering the ever incorporeal Father Shiv, in His permanent Chariot. We can become that which we emulate, and Father Shiv is the Master or king of the physical body, as He never becomes attached to it, or reaps the karmic returns for His actions whilst in the body. He is always karmateet.

The complete angelic stage, is the stage of being 100% soul conscious, whilst remaining in the corporeal body, as is demonstrated by Father Shiv in Prajapita Brahma. We become God's angels, by remembering His practical example, but only Prajapita gets this 100% right.

"Father had explained that Prajapita Brahma(Baba Dixit), who is a bodily being now... he only becomes subtle(bapsaman - completely incorporeal)." [Mu 23.01.84]

"When this Prajapita Brahma(Baba Dixit) who is corporeal now, becomes complete (100% soul conscious at the end), destroys all his sins, then he becomes an angel (a King within his old degraded body)." [Mu 20.01.78]

"Angels mean kings of the physical body." [Av 05.02.09]

“Farishta (angel) means those who remain detached from this vicious world, i.e. vicious atmosphere, vicious vibrations, vicious (human) nature & resolves, vicious vision or thoughts. They remain detached from all these matters. They always remain beloved for Father and Father remains beloved for them ... Just as Father comes to perform actions by entering into a human body while remaining detached, similarly angelic souls also perform actions by entering into the body for the purpose of service and not as a part of karmic bondage and they become detached whenever they wish. Are you free from such karmic bondages? This is only called farishta (angel).” [AV 17.10.81]


Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by cal » 14 Jan 2012

Roy wrote: I am not sure why you are asking me this question...
Dear Brother Roy:
Based on my study of the Murlis, Raj Yoga will be taught only to 108, who will be the kings.
(I have asked this question to a lot of PBK's, teachers etc and everybody says "Sakar mein nirakar ko Yaad karo - remember the incorporeal in the corporeal. In my experience if you go to a soul conscious state, the question of remembering anything else is out of question)

Cal

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 14 Jan 2012

cal wrote:Based on my study of the Murlis, Raj Yoga will be taught only to 108, who will be the kings.
(I have asked this question to a lot of PBK's, teachers etc and everybody says "Sakar mein nirakar ko Yaad karo - remember the incorporeal in the corporeal. In my experience if you go to a soul conscious state, the question of remembering anything else is out of question)
Dear Cal Bhai

The fact you go into a very concentrated stage of remembrance, does not mean the method of remembering the incorporeal in the corporeal is wrong. If by remembering you are a soul, you become lost in the experience, well that is good... but we also have to be karma yogis, and remember ShivBaba as much as possible throughout the day, and also be aware of other beings as souls in bodies also. This is because in the Golden Age, we will continue to be in bodies, and will relate to each other via these bodies; although the focus of our minds will be on the soul in the forehead. ShivBaba has said, you cannot love a soul who is not in a body.

"God Shiva is incorporeal; you can love(remember) Him only through a corporeal body. How can you love the Incorporeal? You cannot love the soul once it leaves the body." [Mu 01.01.77]

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by sita » 15 Jan 2012

Dear Cal Bhai,

You say there is difference in the post achieved, so there must be difference in the method, but it is possible that there is difference in the way one and the same method is applied. It is said Baba does not teach anyone separately. He teaches Raja Yoga to everyone, but only few manage to learn and do the apppropriate effort in this path, others fail in studying the same study. In fact everyone does more or less effort in this same direction and achive more or less success, due to their own efforts. 108 souls, would probably achieve their post due to the special affort they make, based on the given method. Of course everyone is having his own, personal ways, but method is one and it is given by the Supreme Soul, and it is studied by everyone, it is not invention of someone. If someone follows his own inventions, this is manmat and this is not way to salvation. And it is said that giver of salvation is one. Would he give salvation to one with one method an deprive others with different method. will there be duality in his ways also? Our own salvation, our own post, the pen of our own destiny is in our own hands, there is nothing hidden or difficult in the matter it depends on how much do we follow.

One does not become kingship through proclaiming oneself. Even the worldly kings, some kepp the title that their kingship is given by God. all are children of God. he gives inheritance to everyone equally, children take numberwise.

Regarding the method of remembrance, also i feel that one cannnot just say - remember this and one starts remembering this, because remembrance is based on experience and if one does not have experience one does not have anything to remember. Yoga is said to be based on knowledge, but it is also said it is easy and natural and love. I don't know if it is possible to make yourself love someone by force. If one loves the Murli, he loves the murlidhar, he remebers them in natural way like teacher etc. and follows the method there. If one meets etc, he remembers. So the suggested method cannot be applied by force. If someone does not like the prescribed method, i don't know if there is a way to pursuade.

One difficulty is we only know the result at the end, so when we come to know if the method has been right or wrong, it would be too late to start making effort again.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 16 Jan 2012

Dear Shivsena Bhai

I came across this quote on facebook, which i believe is from a Murli... but i haven't been able to acquire the date for it.

"Now the time is called 'Purushottam Sangmyug'. Now Kaliyug is going and Satyug is coming. Now we are accepting the knowledge from God and making our life great and viceless. Our main aim is to become a 'diety from man'. In the Golden era we have got Diety life; now our main aim to be an Angel or to acquire the Avayakt stage. For this we have to become knowledgeful as well as acquire all virtues. Without acquiring all virtues, we cannot become an Angel, never achieve the Diety stage and Avayakt stage.

Essence: Without acquiring all virtues... we cannot achieve the stage of Angel."


Here are some more Avyakt Murli points on this topic...

"At this time the children are in the Brahmin form, and the last stage of the Brahmin form is the angelic stage, and the angels are then to become deities." [Av 21.10.05]

"The world of the soul is BapDada; the sanskars of the soul are to be a Brahmin becoming an angel, and an angel becoming a deity." [Av 21.10.05]

"Brahmin life is the most special of all – Brahmin life is invaluable. The speciality of Brahmin life is purity. Purity is the reality of Brahmin life. Purity is the personality of Brahmin life. Purity is the mother of peace and happiness. Purity brings happiness and peace in your life in a natural way, and it will be your nature. And the aim of pure souls is not to be deities, but first to become angels. The angels then become deities." [Av 21.10.05]


So imo, you are correct to point out that the Confluence Age angelic stage is the highest, but to make one's aim to become Narayan from an ordinary man, is simply to acknowledge that the deity form will be achieved in this very birth, only by those Brahmins who achieve the complete Angelic stage first of all.

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 04 Feb 2012

Dear roy Bhai.

Murli says: "Shri Shri ShivBaba gives Shrimat."

Who is this Shri Shri ShivBaba ...and What is Shrimat ??

Are Sakar Murlis Shrimat ?....or is avaykt Vani Shrimat ?....or whatever Baba Dixit teaches is Shrimat ??

Can you please share your views.
shivsena.

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