What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

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Roy
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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 05 Feb 2012

shivsena wrote:Murli says: "Shri Shri ShivBaba gives Shrimat." Who is this Shri Shri ShivBaba ...and What is Shrimat ??
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Shri Shri ShivBaba imo, relates to the combination of Shiv+Prajapita. Prajapita of course, being the no 1 or supreme effort maker soul, who completely emulates Father Shiv's nirikar stage.

Shrimat imo, is anything that the Supreme Father narrates directly, as the point below specifies...

"Sometimes the word Shrimat is used commonly. Actually the Godly versions uttered directly by Baap-Dada for the children is the Shrimat, which is received daily through Baap-Dada's direct Murlis even now and Baap-Dada's directions are also received from Madhuban from time to time. As regards the rest, directions of souls for other souls can only be termed as a good advice and not Shrimat. Hence, terming of advice received from junior or senior brothers and sisters as Shrimat is like demeaning the importance of Shrimat." [no details at present]
shivsena wrote:Are Sakar Murlis Shrimat ?....or is avaykt Vani Shrimat ?....or whatever Baba Dixit teaches is Shrimat ??
Yes, the Sakar Murlis narrated up to 1969, are Shrimat imo, according to the point above. It is taught in AK that the Avyakt Vani are Shrimat also; but only when clarified by ShivBaba i believe. Whether this applies to the Sakar Murlis narrated up to 1969 I am not sure, although i would say they are Shrimat in their own right, because they are mainly the words of Father Shiv Himself.

"Godly directions (Shrimat) and demoniac directions (manmat) are together (in the Murli), aren’t they? Dada’s directions are different; God’s directions are different." [Mu 27.04.72]

"One should obey whatever elder Baba says, is not it! One should follow Him with closed eyes. But they are not faithful in their intellect. Whether there is loss or gain in His sayings, you must accept it. Even if there is a loss in it, it has been told by Baba to always think that it is ShivBaba who speaks. Don't think that Brahma is speaking, ShivBaba is responsible, this is His Chariot, He will make things right. He says - I am sitting here... always think that it is ShivBaba only who speaks." [Mu 04.04.78]

So yes, according to these Murli points, we should consider anything coming from the mouth of the appointed Chariot as Shrimat, even though it may not be Father Shiv's specific directions.

This may be to do with remembrance... as if we are always trying to second guess if Father Shiv spoke something or Prajapita spoke, our remembrance gets broken in the process, and remembrance is the no 1 subject. If we have full faith in what Father Shiv has said about this topic, we know that all will come right at some point... karmas will be settled, and the accurate result will be achieved eventually.

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 07 Feb 2012

Dear roy Bhai.

Thanks for your views.

IMO, Sakar Murlis are intellectual exam paper(padayee) set by Mama Saraswati(goddess of knowledge and goddess of intellect) and only those who read/churn the Murlis deeply will be able to find the jewels of knowledge therein and find out the secret of rachieta-ShivBaba(Mama) and rachna Krishna(Virendra Dev Dixit).

Avaykt Vanis are Shrimat given by Shri Shri ShivBaba(avaykt Mama) who is emerging the 108 shivshakti souls and teaching them how to become avaykt farishtas like her.....Shrimat is not given by bindi shiv nor it is given by some deh-dhari manushya guru....Shrimat(avaykt Vanis) can be understood only if you recognise who is avaykt brahma and without understanding avaykt Vanis (Shrimat) one can never become farishta(angel).

Advance knowledge spoken by Virendra Dev Dixit is manushya mat, which is the biggest obstacle/ mayavi illusion which one has to cross, if one has to become mayajeet-jagatjeet.

Murlis say: "Shrimat se sadgati aur manushya-mat se durgati"....this applies to the Sangamyugi drama where if you follow Shrimat(avaykt Vanis of Mama), you will attain sadgati (become karmatit angels) and if you follow AK(manushya mat) then you will get durgati.....this is my belief.

shivsena.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 10 Feb 2012

Roy wrote: "Godly directions (Shrimat) and demoniac directions (manmat) are together (in the Murli), aren’t they? Dada’s directions are different; God’s directions are different." [Mu 27.04.72]
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

You have quoted a very rare Murli point from the year 1972, but i do not agree with your interpretations.

IMO, the above point can also be interpreted as follows:
"Godly directions (Shrimat) and demoniac directions (manmat) are together (in Sangamyug), aren’t they? Dada’s(Krishna bada Bhai--big brother also known as Dada) directions(AK) are different; God’s(personified ShivBaba-Mama) directions(avaykt Vanis) are different."

The above Vani point is comparing two different directions given by two different souls...Godly directions(avaykt Vanis taught by no. 1 angel) teach us to become angels- farishtas by remembering Ruhani Bap-ALAF (Mama) in Subtle Regions....while Dada's(Krishna-Baba Dixit's) manmat(AK) teaches us to become body-conscious by remembering shiv in a human body(which is demonical direction)....this direction by a bodily guru can never make any soul farishta-angel.....so one has to be very careful is deciding what is manmat(demonical direction) and what is Shrimat(Godly direction).

If PBKs feel that whatever Baba Dixit speaks is Godly direction(spoken by Shiva), then they should be following his directions only and they should not be reading/following the avaykt Vanis and Murlis(which will confuse them more)....but if PBKs have any doubts about AK not being 100% Shrimat, then they should start reading/churning the Murlis and try to find out what is Shrimat and who is shri shri ShivBaba.

shivsena.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 11 Feb 2012

shivsena wrote:Dada's(Krishna-Baba Dixit's) manmat(AK) teaches us to become body-conscious by remembering shiv in a human body(which is demonical direction)
Dear Shivsena Bhai

If what you say is correct, then how do you explan the following Avyakt Vani point?

"During meditation, along with the Incorporeal (Shiv), if the corporeal (Prajapita-Ram) is remembered then you will become "charitravan(virtuous)". But if only the corporeal form (of Prajapita-Ram) and his character (of supreme or no 1 effort maker) are remembered, then only that character will be in the memory (and this remembrance alone will not result in you aquiring the inheritance of jeevanmukti). Hence, along with the Incorporeal Luminous point (Father Shiv), the corporeal form (Prajapita-Ram) and his character should be remembered (Please note, that Brahma Baba's corporeal form was no longer in existence in 1970, when this Avyakt Vani was narrated)." [Av 18.01.70]

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 11 Feb 2012

Roy wrote: Dear Shivsena Bhai
If what you say is correct, then how do you explan the following Avyakt Vani point?

"During meditation, along with the Incorporeal (Shiv), if the corporeal (Prajapita-Ram) is remembered then you will become "charitravan(virtuous)". But if only the corporeal form (of Prajapita-Ram) and his character (of supreme or no 1 effort maker) are remembered, then only that character will be in the memory (and this remembrance alone will not result in you aquiring the inheritance of jeevanmukti). Hence, along with the Incorporeal Luminous point (Father Shiv), the corporeal form (Prajapita-Ram) and his character should be remembered (Please note, that Brahma Baba's corporeal form was no longer in existence in 1970, when this Avyakt Vani was narrated)." [Av 18.01.70]
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

The whole confusion in the knowledge is about the definition of Sakar(corporeal) form of Shiva. I have already shared my views about who is ''Sakar form of Shiva'' in another thread...and i completely differ from BKs and PBKs who think that the Chariot DL and VD are the corporeal form of Shiva.....imo, the Sakar form of Shiva is no. 1 shakti(Mama) and if the above Vani point is interpreted in that light then the whole point proves the Bhakti-marg saying :"shakti is Shiva and Shiva is shakti".

Actually the above point talks about "chitra mein vichitra ko dekho toh charitravaan ban jaaenge."[ "See the pictureless(Shiva) in the picture(of Mama-no.1 shakti), then you will become charitravaan (like Mama)..ie you become numberwise 108 shivshaktis.]....by remembering bindishiv in the chariots(DL or VD) one cannot become a shivshakti....only by remembering and following Mama no. 1 shivshakti that one can become charitravaan(inculcate all virtues and powers), as Shiva gives all powers only through his shakti and not through the chariots.....this is what i firmly believe.

shivsena.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 12 Feb 2012

Roy wrote:
Shri Shri ShivBaba imo, relates to the combination of Shiv+Prajapita. Prajapita of course, being the no 1 or supreme effort maker soul, who completely emulates Father Shiv's nirikar stage.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Is Baba Dixit Shri Shri ShivBaba during the shooting period or does he become Shri Shri ShivBaba only when prajapita completely emulates Father shiv in the end.

shivsena.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 12 Feb 2012

shivsena wrote:The whole confusion in the knowledge is about the definition of Sakar(corporeal) form of Shiva.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I feel there is no confusion in the following Murli points... they appear to make the issue eminently clear imo.

"Shiva is Incorporeal Father, Prajapita Brahma is corporeal Father. Now you are obtaining inheritance from the Incorporeal Father (Shiv) through the corporeal (Father, Prajapita-Ram - which proves that Brahma Baba is not the true Prajapita, as we have yet to recieve our inheritance of Heaven, and Brahma Baba can no longer be considered a corporeal Father)." [Mu 14.01.00]

"The Supreme Soul is Incorporeal. He gives inheritance to his children (which we have yet to receive) only through the corporeal Father (Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 31.01.75]

"Children don’t even understand that (Prajapita) Brahma must certainly be in corporeal form, through whom the Supreme Father Supreme Soul creates the (new)world (of Heaven-Ramraj, in the Confluence Age itself)." (The Brahmin Religion is created through Brahma-DL, but not Heaven-Ramraj) [Mu 02.10.98]

"Incorporeal God Father (Shiv) cannot do any work without corporeal Father (Prajapita-Ram), He cannot play any role." [Mu 06.12.76]

"Souls are incorporeal children. Then Father creates. So certainly He will create corporeal Brahmins. Prajapita Brahma will be in corporeal form, isn’t it?" [Mu 29.07.05]

"For as long as Brahma Kumar-Kumari's are in the physical body, Prajapita Brahma is also in the physical body." [Mu 03.11.87]


Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 12 Feb 2012

shivsena wrote:Is Baba Dixit Shri Shri ShivBaba during the shooting period or does he become Shri Shri ShivBaba only when prajapita completely emulates Father shiv in the end.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Baba Dixit is never Shri Shri ShivBaba imo, because the double Shri implies two souls, Shiv plus Prajapita... the Supreme Father, and the Supreme Soul. Once Father Shiv leaves for Paramdham, i would imagine the title of Baba Dixit, is Shri ShivBaba, the Supreme Soul.

With regard to the title Shri Shri ShivBaba, i am not sure as to when this name applies, because Brahma Baba has been given the name Pitashri, and he has yet to become complete... although I am not sure if this title was given by ShivBaba, or by other Brahmins... perhaps you can enlighten me in this matter.

My own feeling is, that a soul only truly becomes Shri once they become complete at the end; and only Prajapita emulates Father Shiv's incorporeal stage completely; so that he becomes worthy of inclusion in the title, Shri Shri ShivBaba, and then becomes Shri ShivBaba in his own right, once Father Shiv leaves for Paramdham.

"All know life story of Supreme Soul(Prajapita-Ram), that too not of one life, there is biography of ShivBaba of how many lives (84), you know." (The Supreme Soul being referred to here, is Prajapita-Ram, who is the supreme "human" soul, who becomes entitled to be called ShivBaba when he emulates Father Shiv's incorporeal stage at the end. It is of course, Prajapita-Ram who has a biography of 84 births, not Father Shiv, who has no biography, apart from when He takes on a body, during the Confluence Age) [Mu 11.06.72]

"In reality the oldest thing on this earth is ShivBaba. But nobody(no BK) knows. All praises are for ShivBaba(Prajapita-Ram, who emulates the 100% incorporeal stage of Father Shiv, through his intense spiritual efforts). No. 1. oldest is ShivBaba. Nobody(no BK) can understand who this ShivBaba is." [Mu 21.05.87]


As a final note... imo, Shrimat is given by Shri Shri ShivBaba throughout the second half of the Confluence Age, from 1976... although anything spoken at the end by Shri Shri ShivBaba, when Prajapita is actually complete, will be Shrimat only; with no mixing of manmat from Brahma Baba.

"Godly directions (Shrimat) and demoniac directions (manmat) are together (in the Murli), aren’t they? Dada’s directions are different; God’s directions are different." [Mu 27.04.72]

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 12 Feb 2012

Roy wrote:
"Godly directions (Shrimat) and demoniac directions (manmat) are together (in the Murli), aren’t they? Dada’s directions are different; God’s directions are different." [Mu 27.04.72]
Roy
Are you trying to say that brahma(Dada) is giving demonical directions through the body of VD and shiv(God) is giving Godly directions through the same body !!!!!

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 13 Feb 2012

shivsena wrote:Are you trying to say that brahma(Dada) is giving demonical directions through the body of VD and shiv(God) is giving Godly directions through the same body !!!!!
Yes! It has been said on this forum many times by experienced PBKs, that especially in the discussion classes, Brahma Baba says things at times, that are not consistent with the teachings of Father Shiv.

"One should obey whatever elder Baba says, is not it! One should follow Him with closed eyes. But they are not faithful in their intellect. Whether there is loss or gain in His sayings, you must accept it. Even if there is a loss in it, it has been told by Baba to always think that it is ShivBaba who speaks. Don't think that Brahma is speaking, ShivBaba is responsible, this is His Chariot, He will make things right. He says - I am sitting here... always think that it is ShivBaba only who speaks." [Mu 04.04.78]

When it comes to the Avyakt Vanis, these are not considered Shrimat until they have been clarified by Father Shiv... but also, the content in these Vanis is mainly to do with dharna, which is a subject Brahma Baba is obviously much stronger in, than Gyan itself.

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 13 Feb 2012

Roy wrote:Yes! It has been said on this forum many times by experienced PBKs, that especially in the discussion classes, Brahma Baba says things at times, that are not consistent with the teachings of Father Shiv. Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Can you please give some examples of brahma-DL saying things which are not consistent with the teachings of shiv.... i find it very difficult to differentiate between what is spoken by Father shiv and what is spoken by brahma-DL.

shivsena.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 13 Feb 2012

shivsena wrote:Can you please give some examples of brahma-DL saying things which are not consistent with the teachings of shiv.... i find it very difficult to differentiate between what is spoken by Father shiv and what is spoken by brahma-DL.
Dear Shivsena Bhai,

I am afraid i cannot give you any examples of these inconsistentcies at this time... but should i ever recognise any in the future, i shall point them out to you.

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 13 Feb 2012

Roy wrote: I am afraid i cannot give you any examples of these inconsistentcies at this time... but should i ever recognise any in the future, i shall point them out to you.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

I find it very hard to digest, that Krishna-DL who is supposed to be a student learning RajYoga from Father shiv is interfering in shiv's explanations of Murlis(of which DL had very poor knowledge while he was in the body)....and omnipotent Father shiv allowing a student-Krishna-DL to interfere in HIS clarifications(for what purpose ???)....and then as avaykt Brahma--DL goes to mt abu and delivers avaykt Vanis (which are supposed to be dharana Vanis) and all BKs/PBKs are expected to follow them.....all this is very hard to accept by a logical mind.

Do you have any rational explanation for this deception game being played through the body of Baba Dixit....or PBKs have just accepted the whole thing without questioning.

shivsena.

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 14 Feb 2012

shivsena wrote:I find it very hard to digest, that Krishna-DL who is supposed to be a student learning RajYoga from Father shiv is interfering in shiv's explanations of Murlis(of which DL had very poor knowledge while he was in the body)....and omnipotent Father shiv allowing a student-Krishna-DL to interfere in HIS clarifications(for what purpose ???)....and then as avaykt Brahma--DL goes to mt abu and delivers avaykt Vanis (which are supposed to be dharana Vanis) and all BKs/PBKs are expected to follow them.....all this is very hard to accept by a logical mind.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I don't think Father Shiv would use his power to force the silence of his child. Thus if Brahma Baba wishes to say something he is allowed to. Just as he is allowed to keep visiting Mount Abu to deliver his narrations through Dadi Gulzar. He has free will.

Roy

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Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 14 Feb 2012

Roy wrote: Dear Shivsena Bhai.
I don't think Father Shiv would use his power to force the silence of his child. Thus if Brahma Baba wishes to say something he is allowed to. Just as he is allowed to keep visiting Mount Abu to deliver his narrations through Dadi Gulzar. He has free will.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

The question here is not of force, but why the supreme all-powerful Teacher shiv allows a student to interfere in HIS clarifications in the first place.....DL is supposed to have interrupted in Sakar Murlis, which are quite complex to understand and now for the second time (as per PBKs ) he is again interfering and causing more complications.....no student in lokik student life is allowed to interrupt, when the class is in progress, when the teacher is explaining some important issues.....here we see PBKs justify the free will of a student who has no understanding of Murlis when he was in the body and then when he supposedly enters VD, instead of listening to the supreme Teacher Shiva, he interrupts and gives demonical directions(according to Murlis) and we do not know his motive of doing so.... is this what advance knowledge all about(Shiva and Krishna-DL giving their own clarifications and making the whole Godly knowledge more difficult to understand...instead of simplifying it.)

shivsena.

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