What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

An open forum for all ex-BKs, BKs, PBKs, ex-PBKs, Vishnu Party and ALL other Splinter Groups to post their queries to, and debate with, any member of any group congenially.
User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 24 Feb 2012

shivsena wrote:In AK, this alankar is assigned to Mamaa Saraswati as she was no. 1 in churning the knowledge and since she is associated with the swadarshan chakra , then why cannot she be personified ShivBaba, as it is said in Murlis "sabse pahele ShivBaba hai swadarshan-chakra dhari...phir woh tumko swadarshan-chakra dhari banate hain".[" First ShivBaba is swadarshan-chakradhari..then HE makes you (108) swadarshan-chakradhari."]
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Mama is represented as one of the four cooperative arms of Vishnu, she is not the controlling no 1 supreme human soul, which is Prajapita-Ram, whose full body is shown in the form of Confluence Age Narayan, decorated with all virtues and powers. It is Ram who is no 1 in Gyan and remembrance, and as a result he emulates Father Shiv's incorporeal stage, and becomes no 1 in all subjects.

Mama represented by the chakra is on the right hand side of Vishnu in the Trimuty picture, which i believe represents the Moon Dynasty Kingdom of the Confluence Age. Jagadamba and Lakshmi, eventually become Sun Dynasty souls in the Confluence Age itself, and are represented on the left hand side of Vishnu. So although Mama is represented by the chakra, she was only no 1 in Gyan in terms of the Moon Dynasty Kingdom... ShivBaba has said in the Murli that others are higher than Mama and Baba...

"If the post of Mama(Radhe) and Baba(Krishna) is high, then the post of (some more knowledgeable) children (Ram-Sita) could be much higher." [Mu 14.03.63]

You have said before i believe, that the knowledge should emerge naturally within the no 1 shiv-shakti soul... then why does Mama have to churn Gyan, if she is ShivBaba?

Roy

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 25 Feb 2012

Roy wrote:
You have said before i believe, that The Knowledge should emerge naturally within the no 1 shiv-shakti soul... then why does Mama have to churn Gyan, if she is ShivBaba?
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Mama never churned the Gyan...she narrated the Murlis(Gyan) as it emerged in her intellect....she never took any Murli in her hands to explain (like baba Dixit is doing at present)...( Murli point: "ShivBaba does not take any book in his hands to explain.")....and she(ShivBaba) never becomes a student (like Baba Dixit)

shivsena.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 25 Feb 2012

shivsena wrote:Mama never churned the Gyan...she narrated the Murlis(Gyan) as it emerged in her intellect....she never took any Murli in her hands to explain (like baba Dixit is doing at present)...( Murli point: "ShivBaba does not take any book in his hands to explain.")....and she(ShivBaba) never becomes a student (like Baba Dixit)
Then what does your Murli quote mean Shivsena Bhai?...

"First ShivBaba is swadarshan-chakradhari..then He makes you swadarshan-chakradhari."

is not swadarshan-chakradhari the activity of an effort maker soul... does ShivBaba need to spin the cycle of self realisation. He only enters a body to impart knowledge... surely he doesn't need to become self realised, this effort is for human souls only. But you say Mama doesn't churn knowledge... surely spinning the cycle in ones mind and intellect, is to churn knowledge?

ShivBaba never does take a book in His hands to explain... the Murlis He holds are for reference purposes only... He barely glances at them the whole time He is narrating His unique clarifications. You won't find these in the original Sakar Murlis, although they compliment them perfectly imo.

"(Prajapita) Brahma(Ram) is shown holding scriptures(Vanis of Confluence Age) in his hand. Scripture should be only one. So now, (Prajapita) Brahma(Ram) holds highest Gita(Murli in written form) in his hands. ShivBaba sits and explains the essence of all Vedas(i.e He clarifies the meaning of the Sakar Murlis, and reveals their hidden secrets) and Shastras(Avyakt Vanis) through (Prajapita) Brahma's(Ram's) body." [Mu 31.07.73]

Roy

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 04 Mar 2012

Dear roy Bhai.

Sharing my views about the second alankar (conch--shank) of Vishnu.

According to AK, the conch(shank) is attributed to sister Vedanti, who is believed to come at the end of the behad ka drama, to put an end to all controversies between the BKs-PBKs and ex-PBKs.
According to AK, sister Vedanti is head of vijaymala(chandravanshi)...so i do not understand how the MOON-dynasty HEAD is going to put an end to all disputes, when she has no true knowledge about the yatharth form of shiv.

My interpretation of the symbolic meaning of conch: Only when all 108 shivshaktis are united in one thread of knowledge (that the true Gita-sermoniser is adi-shakti Maa jagdamba--personified ShivBaba) , then the conch of knowledge will be automatically be blown in the bk-pbk family, and the 108 shivshaktis will reveal the no. 1 shivshakti (behad ki Vedanti), putting an end to all disputes about ''who is Gita ka Bhagwan''....so conch is the second alankar which every 108 shivshakti has to imbibe to become a true full-cast brahmin.

shivsena.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 04 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:According to AK, the conch(shank) is attributed to sister Vedanti, who is believed to come at the end of the behad ka drama, to put an end to all controversies between the BKs-PBKs and ex-PBKs. According to AK, sister Vedanti is head of vijaymala(chandravanshi)...so i do not understand how the MOON-dynasty HEAD is going to put an end to all disputes, when she has no true knowledge about the yatharth form of shiv.
Dear Shivsena Bhai, i'd like to quote a few Murli points to start with...

"The one who is called Saraswati(Sita-Adi Radhe) is the goddess of knowledge (or Shri Lakshmi of the Confluence Age). She is called the goddess of knowledge....
... She (Saraswati-Sita-Adhe Radhe) is also called the goddess of wealth (as knowledge is true wealth). At that time (i.e. before Sita recognises that Father Shiv has entered Prajapita-Ram), she is not the goddess of knowledge. This Brahma(Ram) and Saraswati(Sita) then (after Sita has recognised the living or practical ShivBaba) become the King and Queen (i.e. Lakshmi-Narayan of the Confluence Age, at the beginning of Ramraj, 111). Therefore, their children must surely also become the masters of heaven (i.e. Radhe-Krishna, are born to Ram-Sita, after 2036, in the Golden Age)." [Mu 17.12.08]

"These Lakshmi & Narayan(Ram-Sita) are called God & Goddess. They got the inheritance (directly) from God (in the Confluence Age - they are not re-born into Heaven-Ramraj, but their bodies are rejuvenated, after final world destruction, where they give birth to Radhe-Krishna)." [Mu 18.02.71]

"God himself teaches Yoga and makes Mahavir and Mahavirni. Mahavir(Ram) and Mahavirni(Sita) are called God of knowledge and Goddess of knowledge." [Mu 07.12.07]


It is my understanding, that once sister Vedanti recognises the living ShivBaba, she is able to imbibe Advance Knowledge very quickly, due to her stage of purity. She has been guided by ShivBaba on the basis of visions since 1976, and is the Bharat(Mata) mentioned in the 1966 Murli, and in declaration at the foot of the the Lakshmi-Narayan picture in 1967, in whom all corruption comes to an end within in 10 years(1976). This is when her visions began!

"Corruption, Irreligiousness, Unrighteousness, vices, insolvency and sufferings will come to an end in Bharat(Mata-Sita-Lakshmi) within 9 years, and Golden Aged Deity-world-Sovereignty of Shri Lakshmi and Shri Narayana will come to be re-established (in the intellect of Bharat Pita-Ram-Narayan) soon after the forth-coming huge world Destruction (that occurs within him on a subtle level, when he leaves the old Iron Aged world behind intellectually, after realising his part as Shri Narayan of the Confluence Age, through his own churning - this is the flower like birth of Confluence Aged Krishna or Ram)." (Declaration on the original Lakshmi-Narayan picture - June 1967)."

Roy

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 19 Mar 2012

Dear roy Bhai.

Sharing a Vani point about Vishnu-roop, which contradicts the teachings of AK.

Avaykt Vani: 15-12-2002 says: " चतुर्भुज रूप की महिमा ज्यादा है . पांडव और शक्तिओं दोनों का combined रूप है विष्णु -चतुर्भुज ."

" Chaturbhuj roop ki mahima jyada hai. Pandav aur shaktian dono ka combined roop hai Vishnu chaturbhuj."

[" The praises for Four armed (Vishnu) is more. Pandav and shaktis(108) both combined together, form the Four-armed Vishnu."]

The above Vani point is clearly contradicting the meaning of 4 arms of Vishnu, as explained by AK ....if brahma-DL is learning AK through the body of Baba Dixit then why is he not repeating the same thing in Vanis, what is taught to him in AK.

The above point proves many things: That avaykt Brahma-DL is not entering Baba Dixit and that avaykt brahma is not DL but some other soul(no. 1 shivshakti--Mama) who is teaching the 108 pandav-shaktis(true brahmins) to become combined Vishnu-roop.

shivsena.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 19 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:" The praises for Four armed (Vishnu) is more. Pandav and shaktis(108) both combined together, form the Four-armed Vishnu."]
The above Vani point is clearly contradicting the meaning of 4 arms of Vishnu, as explained by AK ....if brahma-DL is learning AK through the body of Baba Dixit then why is he not repeating the same thing in Vanis, what is taught to him in AK.
The above point proves many things: That avaykt Brahma-DL is not entering Baba Dixit and that avaykt brahma is not DL but some other soul(no. 1 shivshakti--Mama) who is teaching the 108 pandav-shaktis(true brahmins) to become combined Vishnu-roop.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Thank you once again for another great Murli point, which you continue to present us with on this forum. However, i cannot of course agree with your conclusions. The Pandav of course is Ram, the body of Vishnu; whilst the 4 co-operative arms or shaktis, are Brahma Baba, who plays the part of moon of knowledge mother... plus Sita-Lakshmi, Jagadamba and Om Radhe.

Brahma Baba doesn't teach Advance Knowledge as this is the job of ShivBaba... he simply narrates points of dharna, and gives hints about the existence of ShivBaba in corporeal form, and about the gathering of the Advance Party, who are waiting for the Chandravanshi souls to recognise ShivBaba, so as to unite the Sun and Moon Dynasty kingdoms.

Roy

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 24 Mar 2012

Dear roy Bhai.

Quoting a Murli point, which clearly proves that 4 alankars of Vishnu are not for any soul, but they are the 4 different qualities imbibed by true 108 brahmin souls symbolically represented by chakra--lotus--conch--mace.

Murli 12-8-04 says : "यह जो विष्णु को चक्र दिया है , यह चक्र है तुम्हारा, तुमको कमल फूल सामान बनाना है, परन्तु स्थाही तो तुम नहीं रहेते हो, इसलिए अलंकर विष्णु को दे दिए ... देवताओं को शंक आदि की दरकार नहीं ... मुख से सुनाने को शंक-द्वनी कहा जाता है ... गदा है माया को जीतने की निशानी. "

"Yeh jo Vishnu ko chakra diya hai, yeh chakra hai tumara, tumko kamal phool samaan banana hai, parantu sthahi to tum nahin rahete ho, issliye alankar Vishnu ko de diye....devtaon ko shank adi ki darkaar nahin...mukh se sunane ko shanka dwani kaha jaata hai....gadaa hai Maya ko jeetne ki nishani."

[" The chakra which has been given to Vishnu, this chakra is really yours(108 true brahmins)...you have to become like the lotus flower, but (during the shooting period) you(108) cannot remain stable, that is why the alankars are shown to Vishnu devta.....Vishnu devta does not need shank(conch) ...to give the introduction of (adi-shakti jagdamba as personified ShivBaba), you (108 brahmins) need the mouth (shank-conch)....gadaa(mace) is symbolic of victory over (Godly)Maya."]

The above Murli point clearly describes that the 4 alankars of Vishnu are not belonging to Vishnu, nor the 4 arms of Vishnu belong to 4 souls as described in advance knowledge.(total untruth).

The 4 alankars in the 4 arms of Vishnu all denote the qualities of 108 true brahmins, who will imbibe these alankars numberwise and form the 108 ki mala to reveal Maa adi-shakti as personified ShivBaba.

shivsena.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 24 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:Quoting a Murli point, which clearly proves that 4 alankars of Vishnu are not for any soul, but they are the 4 different qualities imbibed by true 108 brahmin souls symbolically represented by chakra--lotus--conch--mace.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

As Vishnu represents 5 karmateet complete souls in perfect harmony who sustain Vishnupuri, of course these souls will no longer be doing the service of introducing the Father, so the conch will not be necessary. However, these 5 souls represent the attainment that is achieved through the four subjects of RajYoga... Knowledge, Yoga, Inculcation of divine virtues through detachment, and Service; so it is quite right that Vishnu is shown holding them. Of course the 108 will have passed with high marks in all four subjects to reach such a high position, but this doesn't mean that the four arms of Vishnu do not also represent 4 co-operative souls; these pictures of knowledge have different layers of meaning.

Roy

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 17 Apr 2012

Dear roy Bhai and pbk brothers.

Murlis say that "Krishna is 16 * pure devta".(16 kalaa sampoorna)

Can you please share your views about "who is Krishna"....is he devta or farishta ??

shivsena.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 17 Apr 2012

shivsena wrote:Murlis say that "Krishna is 16 * pure devta".(16 kalaa sampoorna)... Can you please share your views about "who is Krishna"....is he devta or farishta ??
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I believe the Krishna being referred to here, is Krishna-Brahma Baba of the Golden Age, who is of course a deity. Confluence Age Krishna(Ram) is not limited to 16 degrees purity, as he is unlimited... that is, his intellect contains the unlimited knowledge, as he is the Sun of Knowledge, not confined by the celestial degrees that refer to the moon. When the moon of knowledge mother, Brahma Baba-Krishna finally becomes full, he then becomes a 16 degrees complete deity in the Golden Age, through re-birth. Krishna(Ram) earns the direct route into the Golden Age as Narayan(nar to Narayan), by being the Sun of Knowledge.

Confluence Age Krishna(Ram) is a complete Angel(King of the Physical body), but can also be called a Confluence Age Deity, as in the Deity Shankar(a role he, the soul of Ram, also plays), when he becomes Narayan after marriage to Lakshmi... He(Ram) cannot be called a Golden Age Deity of course, until his body is rejuvenated(becomes totally pure), after 2036.

Roy

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 18 Apr 2012

Roy wrote:
I believe the Krishna being referred to here, is Krishna-Brahma Baba of the Golden Age, who is of course a deity.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Thanks for your views.

What i cannot understand is : Krishna-DL is a Deity of Satyug (16 kalaa sampoorna)...but how come he is considered an angel (avaykt brahma) in Sangamyug and is narrating the Vanis and telling souls to become karmatit angels....A satyugi Deity(Krishna) teaching souls to become angels !!!!!

Also according to PBKs, VD is Sangamyugi Krishna.....so what i cannot understand is: Sangamyugi Krishna(VD) is in physical body and satyugi Krishna(DL) is an angel in Subtle Region.....and Father Sangamyugi Krishna(VD) is reading/explaining the Vanis of son (satyugi Krishna--DL) in Sangamyug (what purpose ??? ) ....the whole concept just does not make any sense to me.

shivsena.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 19 Apr 2012

shivsena wrote:What i cannot understand is : Krishna-DL is a Deity of Satyug (16 kalaa sampoorna)...but how come he is considered an angel (avaykt brahma) in Sangamyug and is narrating the Vanis and telling souls to become karmatit angels....A satyugi Deity(Krishna) teaching souls to become angels !!!!!
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Imo, although Krishna Brahma Baba is Avyakt, he is not a true angel, as angels are kings of the physical body.

"Angels mean those who are detached from the physical body, those who always have a body of light. Angels mean kings of the physical body." [AV 05.02.09]

Brahma Baba did not become Avyakt because he had conquered attachment, in fact he died of a heart attack because of his lack of detachment. This attachment still remains, which is why he returns to Mt Abu.

Imo it is Prajapita(Ram) who becomes the true Angel, as it is he who totally conquers attachment, whilst remaining in the physical body.

"When this Prajapita Brahma who is corporeal now, becomes complete (100% soul conscious at the end), destroys all his sins, then he becomes an angel (a King within his old degraded body)." [Mu 20.01.78]

Brahma Baba has said not to copy him in becoming Avyakt(leave the body).

"Do you think that we should also leave the body and become Avyakt? Do not follow in this matter. Father Brahma became Avyakt so that you could see the example of Avyakt form and follow easily." [Av 13.03.81]

Avyakt BapDada Vanis are not considered Shrimat by PBKs, until they have been clarified by ShivBaba. Brahma Baba teaches the BKs about dharna, so that they may become true angels. But the truth is, his Avyakt Vanis, without further clarification by ShivBaba, are not going to enable anyone to become a true angel. Only the direct teachings of ShivBaba(Shiv+Ram), can do this.

Just as Father(Shiv) comes to perform actions by entering into a human body while remaining detached, similarly angelic souls also perform actions by entering into the body for the purpose of service and not as a part of karmic bondage and they become detached whenever they wish. Are you free from such karmic bondages? This is only called farishta (angel).” [AV 17.10.81]

Roy

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by shivsena » 20 Apr 2012

Roy wrote:
Imo, although Krishna Brahma Baba is Avyakt, he is not a true angel, as angels are kings of the physical body.
Roy
If Brahma--DL is not a true angel, then what is his designation at present.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: What is our aim?..is to become Devta or Farishta

Post by Roy » 20 Apr 2012

shivsena wrote:If Brahma--DL is not a true angel, then what is his designation at present.
He is subtle or Avyakt Brahma! When he becomes complete, as in Brahma so Vishnu, then imo he can be considered a true angel.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests