Need help to understand teachings of PBK

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T.K
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Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by T.K » 21 Apr 2012

I just spent 4 days studying the material from PBKs (mostly on the site www.PBKs.com).
That my mind is in a tizzy is an understatement.
I had some basic questions about what they have to say. I would appreciate it if PBKs or anyone else could provide some insights:

1. It appears that in 1969 Dada Lekraj's soul and Shiva Baba entered Virendra Dev Dixit's body and gave him the indication that he will now be the Chariot. Did I get this right?
2. It appears that Dada Lekraj used to and still enters Virendra Dev Dixit's body to study the advance knowledge. Is this true?
3. When Virendra Dev Dixit is reading the Murlis (as he does in the VCDs on the site) - does he say "I am Shiva Baba and I will now explain.." or do people simply believe it is Shiva Baba explaining through Virendra Dev Dixit?
4. Does Shiva Baba speak new Vanis through Virendra Dev Dixit or does he only explain the edited material put out by BKs?
Thanks,
T.K

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arjun
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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by arjun » 22 Apr 2012

T.K wrote:1. It appears that in 1969 Dada Lekraj's soul and Shiva Baba entered Veerendra Dev Dixit's body and gave him the indication that he will now be the Chariot. Did I get this right?
While it is true that in 1969 Dada Lekraj's soul and Shiva Baba entered Veerendra Dev Dixit's body but I don't think he got an indication that he will now be the Chariot. But the difference they made was that they inspired him to churn on the unexplained aspects of the basic BK knowledge. He went on studying the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis deeply and started putting together the pieces.
2. It appears that Dada Lekraj used to and still enters Veerendra Dev Dixit's body to study the Advanced Knowledge. Is this true?
Yes. He not only enters to study advance knowledge but also is instrumental in reading the Sakar Murlis or Avyakt Vanis through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and the clarification for the same is given by Father Shiv.
3. When Veerendra Dev Dixit is reading the Murlis (as he does in the VCD* on the site) - does he say "I am Shiva Baba and I will now explain.." or do people simply believe it is Shiva Baba explaining through Veerendra Dev Dixit?
No he doesn't claim that he is ShivBaba or that the soul of Shiv enters in him. It is on the basis of the knowledge that is spoken through his mouth that PBKs believe Shiv speaks through him.
4. Does Shiva Baba speak new Vanis through Veerendra Dev Dixit or does he only explain the edited material put out by BKs?
Mostly he has been clarifying the Sakar Murlis (spoken through Dada Lekhraj) and Avyakt Vanis (spoken through Gulzar Dadi). But when he is discussing the knowledge with the PBKs he speaks extempore for hours together, which is recorded as discussion classes, extracts of which are available in the PBK Section of this forum.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by T.K » 22 Apr 2012

Dear Arjun,
Thank you for your response. I am grateful for it.

So are you able to discern between Dad Lekhraj reading the Murlis/Vanis and Shiva Baba explaining The Knowledge?
Since BKs only put out edited Murlis/Vanis, are DL and Shiva Baba able to recall what they had said earlier or are they able to simply fill in the missing material? Or do the PBKs somehow have the original versions?

Thanks,
T.K

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arjun
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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by arjun » 23 Apr 2012

T.K wrote:So are you able to discern between Dad Lekhraj reading the Murlis/Vanis and Shiva Baba explaining The Knowledge?
No. We cannot discern clearly. This assumption is based on the pictures of the Bhaktimarg where the scriptures are shown in the hands of Brahma. So, it is the soul of Brahma Baba which reads and the Supreme Soul Shiv who clarifies.
T.K wrote:Since BKs only put out edited Murlis/Vanis, are DL and Shiva Baba able to recall what they had said earlier or are they able to simply fill in the missing material? Or do the PBKs somehow have the original versions?
Yes, PBKs have the original versions of the Sakar Murlis which are clarified by ShivBaba.
I would like to add here that although Shiv gives knowledge through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, but He does not act like a magician by recalling whatever He had said through Dada Lekhraj word by word. If He starts doing that, then every person will start asking what happened in his/her previous births. Then Shiv would not have time for His main task, i.e. of teaching Godly knowledge to transform His children from human beings to deities.

OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by T.K » 23 Apr 2012

Thanks, Arjun.

In some of the PBK literature there is a mention that although Shankar is supposedly responsible for destruction, in reality Shiv Shaktis will bring about the destruction. Did I get this right? If so, will these be BK Shiv Shaktis or PBK Shiv Shaktis? Do Shiv Shaktis refer to Mothers in the Yagya? Will the destruction happen through Yoga?

Thanks,
T.K

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arjun
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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by arjun » 23 Apr 2012

T.K wrote:In some of the PBK literature there is a mention that although Shankar is supposedly responsible for destruction, in reality Shiv Shaktis will bring about the destruction. Did I get this right? If so, will these be BK Shiv Shaktis or PBK Shiv Shaktis? Do Shiv Shaktis refer to Mothers in the Yagya? Will the destruction happen through Yoga?
Yes, you are right. But I think it will be PBK Shiv shaktis because the BK sisters/mothers (shaktis) do not have any real connection with Shiv in practical. Shaktis refers to mothers as well as virgins. The destruction would first take place in a subtle sense within the world of us alokik Brahmins and then in the outside world. I am not sure as to how the destruction will take place through them. I will have to check the records or consult Baba to give you a correct answer.

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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by T.K » 23 Apr 2012

So, Brother Arjun,
What is the deep drama mystery about DL letting the masses believe for the last 40 years that it is Shiva Baba+DL who enters Dadi Gulzar when in fact it is DL alone?
Is it to test the BKs so that only those who can truly understand the mystery can become full-cast Brahmins?
Thanks,
T.K

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arjun
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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by arjun » 24 Apr 2012

T.K wrote:What is the deep drama mystery about DL letting the masses believe for the last 40 years that it is Shiva Baba+DL who enters Dadi Gulzar when in fact it is DL alone?
Is it to test the BKs so that only those who can truly understand the mystery can become full-cast Brahmins?
T.K, you have raised an important issue related to the BK/PBK knowledge. Actually, when the Avyakt part began through Gulzar Dadiji in 1969 it was a spontaneous step in the unlimited drama to hold together the Brahmin family which had started developing doubts about the continuance of the Yagya or about the role of God. The orphaned BKs needed the guidance of someone to proceed further in the path of knowledge; so, the soul of Brahma Baba started entering Gulzar Dadiji to narrate Avyakt Vanis. Since the language of the Avyakt Vanis was such (especially the use of word BapDada) that BKs were under the impression that both Shiv and Brahma were entering in her body. But in reality it was only the soul of Brahma. And very clear hints about the same were given in the initial Avyakt Vanis itself. Meanwhile the permanent Chariot of Shiv became a BK in 1969 and started studying the BK knowledge (Murlis, AVs, pictures, literature, etc.) deeply and due to the entry of Shiv in him he got more and more inspirations about the hidden meanings in the basic knowledge. But it took nearly 6-7 years for this new Chariot of Shiv to be revealed. By that time, Gulzar Dadiji was accepted by all BKs as the new Chariot of BapDada. Moreover, the administrative power had been transferred from Brahma Baba to Prakashmani Dadiji and she distributed the same to various other Dadis and senior sisters and brothers by forming various zones, sub-zones, departments, etc. These Seniors had become conscious of their posts. So, by 1976 (which was declared by ShivBaba as the year of destruction way back in 1966) and 1977 (declared by BapDada as the year of revelation of the Father), when Baba Virendra Deo Dixit (an ordinary, poor BK) was recognized by some BKs (especially some ordnary BK mothers) as the new Chariot of Father Shiv, no prominent BK was ready to accept this BK as the new Chariot. So, the tussle began. The BKs, led by Dadi Prakashmaniji banished him (and the PBKs) from the Yagya.

Meanwhile, Dada Lekhraj continued to enter in Gulzar Dadiji’s body and deliver Avyakt Vanis during the winter season at Mount Abu. Another reason for his continuance was his attachment for the BKs. His was a soft motherly role (as Dada Lekhraj). So, he was attached to the BKs and therefore continued to deliver Avyakt Vanis which are basically related to inculcation of knowledge, Yoga, service etc. It is not much concerned with the explanation of the actual BK knowledge related to the four-five pictures (Trimurti, World cycle, Kalpa Vriksha, the Ladder, etc.). But he also continued to give hints about the new role of ShivBaba being played through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. But as he has not uttered the name of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit directly, BKs think that he is a fraud, but the entire Sakar Murlis, Avyakt Vanis and the divine pictures point towards Baba Virendra Dev Dixit being the permanent Chariot. Even in the current season’s Avyakt Vanis a lot of hints have been given in this regard. If you wish I can reproduce them.

On Godly Service,
Arjun

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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by T.K » 24 Apr 2012

But, Arjun Bhai,
Would not deliberate misleading, that too for so long, reduce DL's purity and knock him off the #1 Golden-age soul position?

Also, When Shiva Baba used to speak through DL, he would from time to time remind listeners that he was separate from DL.
Does Shiva Baba do the same when he speaks from Virendra Dev Dixit, either when he is explaining the old Murlis or when he is speaking extempore, imparting The Knowledge?

BTW, Arjun, I admire your steadfastness and your ability to serve by tirelessly answering queries, often the same, over and over again. You are truly deserving of the high status that you will surely receive in the future.

Thanks,
T.K

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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by arjun » 25 Apr 2012

T.K wrote:Would not deliberate misleading, that too for so long, reduce DL's purity and knock him off the #1 Golden-age soul position?
I don't think it is deliberate because whatever happens in this unlimited drama is beneficial (kalyaankaari). The Avyakt par of Dada Lekhraj's soul through Gulzar Dadiji will continue as long as it is beneficial for the Brahmin family, for God's cause. For the first time in the history of Avyakt Vanis a direct hint has been given in the last AV of the season dated 3.4.12 in which there are paragraphs which indicate that not even the soul of Brahma Baba, but Gulzar Dadi alone was speaking.

“आज बापदादा को अमृतवेले मधुबन के सेवाधारी सामने आये। हर एक से बापदादा वतन में भी मिले और खास आपको पहले भी बताया है कि चार बजे के समय आपकी एडवांस में गई हुई विशेष दादियां जरूर आती हैं। तो आज भी विशेष दादियाँ और विशेष भाई पहुँचे थे। उन्होंने खास मधुबन वालों को इमर्ज करने के लिए कहा। विशेष दीदी और दादी दोनों ने और विशेष भाईयों ने भी मधुबन वालों को याद किया।....तो बापदादा ने कहा उन्हों से पूछो तो मधुबन के लिए आपको मन में क्या आता है? तो दादी क्या बोली? पता है, जानते तो हो, दादी को तो जानते हैं ना। दादी कहती थी मेरी यह अभी तक भी दिल है कि हर एक मधुबन वाला चाहे पुरुषार्थ में कोई भी कमी अभी रह गई है उसका तो पुरुषार्थ करना है लेकिन मैं एक बात चाहती हूँ, मधुबन वालों से। वह क्या चाहती हूँ? एक-एक मधुबनवासी बाप समान बन जाये। वैसे तो सभी को बनना है लेकिन मधुबन विशेष है, मधुबन वालों को दादी से प्यार था, यह दादी कहती थी मुझे पता है। तो प्यार के रिटर्न में मैं यही चाहती हूँ कि जैसे मम्मा ने लक्ष्य रखा बाबा ने कहा मम्मा ने किया, यह तो मधुबन वाले जानते ही हैं। ऐसे ही अमृतवेले से लेके रात तक हर एक मधुबन वाले अगर बाबा के साथ मेरे से भी प्यार है, दादियों से भी प्यार है, तो जैसे मम्मा ने बाप की हर राय जीवन में लाई, ऐसे हमने भी लाई। तो अगर दादियों से प्यार है, तो यही करके दिखायें, सवेरे से रात तक ऐसा कोई संकल्प बोल कर्म नहीं लावें जो दादियों को या बाप को या किसी को भी पसन्द नहीं हो। यह हमारा सन्देश खास मधुबन वालों को देना। तो हमने (गुल्जार दादी ने) दादी को कहा, दादी आप मधुबन में कभी चक्र लगाती हो? अभी मैं (गुल्जार बहन) वतन का समाचार मधुबन वालों को सुना रही हूँ। तो मैंने गुल्जार बहन ने, उनको कहा दादी मधुबन वालों को तो आप जो कहेंगे वह करेंगे। तो मैंने ठीक कहा, करेंगे? हाथ उठाओ। दो-दो हाथ उठाओ। करेंगे? बहुत अच्छा।“ (अव्यक्त वाणी दिनांक 03.04.12, पृष्ठ 2 एवं 3)

“Today, at Amrit Vela, the servers of Madhuban came in front of BapDada. BapDada met each one in the Subtle Region and just as Baba has already told you previously, at 4.00 am, your special Dadis who have gone in advance definitely come. Today, special Dadis and special brothers had also reached there and they specially requested to make the Madhuban residents emerge there. Specially, both Didi and Dadi, and the special brothers too remembered those from Madhuban..... BapDada said: Ask them what comes into their minds about Madhuban? What did Dadi say? You know, you already know, you know Dadi, do you not? Dadi said: I still have the desire that each one from Madhuban, even if there is still something lacking in your efforts, you have to make effort for that but I want one thing from the Madhuban residents. What do I want? It is that each and every resident of Madhuban becomes equal to the Father. In fact, everyone has to become that, but Madhuban is special. Those from Madhuban had love for Dadi. Dadi used to say -1 know this. So, in return of love, I want it to be just as Mama had kept the aim -that whatever Baba said, Mama did. Those from Madhuban definitely know this. In the same way, from Amrit Vela until night, if each one from Madhuban has love for Baba and for me and for the Dadis, then just as Mama put every piece of the Father's advice into her life, so we too did the same. So, if you have love for the Dadis, then demonstrate it by doing this: From morning till night, do not have any such thoughts, words or deeds that the Dadis, the Father or anyone else does not like. Specially give this message of ours to those from Madhuban. So I (Dadi Gulzar) asked Dadi: Dadi, when do you tour around in Madhuban? I (Gulzarben) am now relating the news of the Subtle Region to those from Madhuban. I, Gulzarben, said to them: Dadi, those from Madhuban will do whatever you tell them to. So, did I speak correctly? Will you do that? Raise your hands! Raise both your hands. Will you will do that? Very good. (Avyakt Vani dated 03.04.12, pg.2&3)
Also, When Shiva Baba used to speak through DL, he would from time to time remind listeners that he was separate from DL.
Does Shiva Baba do the same when he speaks from Veerendra Dev Dixit, either when he is explaining the old Murlis or when he is speaking extempore, imparting The Knowledge?
Yes, definitely Shiv Baba does the same through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. He reminds again and again that Shiv and Shankar are separate although they are working through the same body.
BTW, Arjun, I admire your steadfastness and your ability to serve by tirelessly answering queries, often the same, over and over again. You are truly deserving of the high status that you will surely receive in the future.
Thanks for your good wishes. But I am stilly miles away from achieving the spiritual stage that ShivBaba wants us to achieve.

OGS,
Arjun

T.K
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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by T.K » 25 Apr 2012

So if DL still has soft motherly attachment to BKs - would that mean he has not gotten rid of that vice? Is he not 16-celestial-virtues complete yet?
Is that why he is still studying in Virendra Dev Dixit's body?
Will Virendra Dev Dixit's soul in the end be more complete than DL's?

Thanks,
T.K

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arjun
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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by arjun » 25 Apr 2012

T.K. wrote:So if DL still has soft motherly attachment to BKs - would that mean he has not gotten rid of that vice?
Yes, he hasn't.
Is he not 16-celestial-virtues complete yet?
Yes, he is not.
Is that why he is still studying in Veerendra Dev Dixit's body?
Yes.
Will Veerendra Dev Dixit's soul in the end be more complete than DL's?
Yes.

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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by T.K » 25 Apr 2012

Arjun Bhai,
Are the original, unedited, unmodified Sakar Murlis, as they were spoken by Shiva Baba through DL, available online? If so, where would they be?
I have seen one or two here and there, but I am wondering if there are more.
(Of course I see the snippets you post of the Murlis and Vanis containing the new explanations of Shiva Baba through Virendra Dev Dixit.)
Thanks,
T.K

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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by arjun » 25 Apr 2012

T.K wrote:Are the original, unedited, unmodified Sakar Murlis, as they were spoken by Shiva Baba through DL, available online? If so, where would they be?
I have seen one or two here and there, but I am wondering if there are more.
I don't think they are available online. I don't know how many of them are available with AIVV, but even if AIVV has those original Murlis, they must be in a very delicate condition keeping in view the long period of time that has elapsed since they were cyclostyled or typed originally. But the primary responsibility of making them online lies with BKWSU.

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Re: Need help to understand teachings of PBK

Post by T.K » 25 Apr 2012

Arjun,
Would Virendra Dev Dixit's thesis submitted for PhD be available online?
I am sure it would be fascinating to read how Virendra Dev Dixit's thoughts evolved about the yogya and Knowledge, and how he derived his conclusions as he studied the Murlis, Vanis, anecdotal information that he was provided verbally, and other materials, especially any notebooks of the then BK sisters/brothers.

Also, was Virendra Dev Dixit himself aware that he was Sevak Ram in his previous birth or did Shiva Baba and/or DL give him that information?
Thanks,
T.K

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