Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

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shivsena
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivsena » 20 Sep 2013

arjun wrote: So, the body of Shankar belongs to the soul of Ram who is also a Brahma, in fact Prajapita Brahma. So, remembering Shiv through Prajapita Brahma is not at all wrong. .
Which Murli says that body of Shankar belongs to Ram's soul and which Murli says that Ram is also brahma.???..Murlis say: "Ram arthat parampita paramatma".

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 20 Sep 2013

vrkrao wrote:VCD 616: Listen from 27:00 to 34:00
Would someone mind briefly summarising in English what was said. Thank you!

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 20 Sep 2013

shivsena wrote:Murlis say: "Ram arthat parampita paramatma"
Yes, so the part of Ram has to be played through Prajapita Brahma the corporeal Father...

"Incorporeal God Father (Shiv) cannot do any work without corporeal Father (Prajapita-Ram), He cannot play any role (without his corporeal body)." [Mu 06.02.76]

"They tell: Satguru akalmurt (the true guru Ram is immortal, he cannot leave his body). If the body itself is not here, then how can He give the true salvation (at the end, when He takes our boats-bodies across)? Then how will He (Father Shiv) become Satguru (without Prajapita-Ram - the especially appointed or permanent Chariot)." [Mu 03.10.74]

"If (Incorporeal)ShivBaba(i.e. Father Shiv) doesn’t play any role (for which he needs a corporeal body), He will be of no use. He wouldn’t have any value. He will be held valuable only when he bestows true salvation (sadgati) upon the whole world (at the end). Only then is He praised as Ram, the bestower of true salvation on all (a role he plays through Prajapita-Ram, not Avyakt Brahma Baba Krishna, who has no corporeal form, since 1968/9)." [Mu 16.12.74]

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivsena » 20 Sep 2013

Roy wrote:Murlis say: "Ram arthat parampita paramatma"
Yes, so the part of Ram has to be played through Prajapita Brahma the corporeal Father...
Is Ram(supposed-Virendra Dev Dixit) is he parampita paramatma or is he prajapita brahma or is he both?????

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by vrkrao » 20 Sep 2013

Your question is like asking a person whether if he is Father, husband, brother or friend or combination of these? Roles and corresponding actions are different. Names are assigned based on actions and hence meaning of Ram is discussed already in the past. Now, who is playing that role and through which medium is it being played is the question? Incorporeal play the role of Ram (one who pleases, rejoices and wanders in the heart of yogis) through the corporeal medium. Now, is it being experienced by anyone? Yes, it is number-wise. And when corporeal achieve that stage 100%, there will be no difference between the two.
Now, the meaning of parampita paramatma is shared on the forum several times. So, needless to explain it again

This is my understanding

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 20 Sep 2013

shivsena wrote:Is Ram(supposed-Virendra Dev Dixit) is he parampita paramatma or is he prajapita brahma or is he both?????
Good question! Corporeal Ram(Virendra Dev Dixit ji) is definately the corporeal Father Pajapita Brahma as far as i am concerned... and is also the supreme human soul... But as to whether he inherits the title of Parampita Paramatma at the end, i am not so sure about. My own feeling at this time is that only Father Shiv Himself can ever have the title of Parampita... the Father of all souls... as only He can create us in His own image through knowledge... although this still has to take place through a corporeal medium like everything else.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 21 Sep 2013

roy wrote:My own feeling at this time is that only Father Shiv Himself can ever have the title of Parampita... the Father of all souls...
That's correct.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivachild » 21 Sep 2013

shivsena wrote:Is Ram(supposed-Virendra Dev Dixit) is he parampita paramatma or is he prajapita Brahma or is he both?????

Sakar Murli dated 16.05.2013 says,"God, the Father, creates creation through them. That God, the Father, is the Father of all souls. This one is Prajapita and we souls are his imperishable children. So then, as you come into the cycle, this one is Prajapita Brahma who is called the great-great-grandfather. Shiva cannot be called the great-great-grandfather. Shiva is just called the Father. He is the Father of all souls."

according to above Murli point
1)Shiv is the Father (parampita parmatma) of all souls.
2)'Prajapita Brahma' is the great-great-Grandfather.

So, Parampita Parmatma(Father=Ram) and Prajapita Brahma(Great Great Grandfather) are two saperate souls.
This point also says that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit is not 'Prajapita Brahma' as these words were spoken before 1969 in the body of Krishna(Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani).

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 22 Sep 2013

So, Parampita Parmatma(Father=Ram) and Prajapita Brahma(Great Great Grandfather) are two saperate souls.
This point also says that Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit is not 'Prajapita Brahma' as these words were spoken before 1969 in the body of Krishna(Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani).
If Dada Lekhraj is Prajapita Brahma or Great Great Grandfather, then where is he now?

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by pbkindiana » 23 Sep 2013

shivsena wrote:
Is Ram(supposed-Virendra Dev Dixit) is he parampita paramatma or is he prajapita Brahma or is he both?????
If you as an ordinary human being can play the roles of a doctor, Father, husband, son, brother, friend, then why cannot the seed of the human world plays His role too?

AV. 5.9.74 -- "Father also transformed from corporeal to subtle, He will transform from subtle to incorporeal and from incorporeal to corporeal."

So based on these stages, ShivBaba (Baba Dixit) plays His roles.

AV. 17.5.1978 -- "Just as BapDada comes into the body from an incorporeal stage(bodiless or ashariri), you children must also remain in the body in a bodiless stage." ---- hope this av opens your internal eye and also a wake up call for you, so wind up your business of running after souls without bodies. There is only one concept in this spiritual study i.e. we are either in body consciousness or in soul consciousness in the body itself. You either live in body consciousness or in soul consciousness through the body itself, so wake up from the kumbhakarana sleep.

indie.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivachild » 23 Sep 2013

arjun wrote:If Dada Lekhraj is Prajapita Brahma or Great Great Grandfather, then where is he now?
Imo.....Soul of Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani is not in the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit at present.

soul of Om Radhey Mama=No. 1 Shivshakti=Bap
& soul of Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani=Dada;

Thus BapDada in combined form are narrating 'Avyakt Vanis' in the body of Dadi Gulzar in Mount Abu.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivsena » 24 Sep 2013

pbkindiana wrote: shivsena wrote:
Is Ram(supposed-Virendra Dev Dixit) is he parampita paramatma or is he prajapita Brahma or is he both?????

If you as an ordinary human being can play the roles of a doctor, Father, husband, son, Brother, friend, then why cannot the seed of the human world plays His role too?
indie.
In lokik life, in Father-child relationship, Father calls bacche-beta...in brother-brother relationship, Bhai-Bhai is used.
According to adv-Gyan, Lekhraj Kirpalani was partdhari(titleholder) prajapita with Father shiv present in him and Lekhraj Kirpalani used to call children as bacche-bacche…..if Virendra Dev Dixit is real prajapita with ShivBap present in him, then why does he not call every pbk as bacche-bacche !!....Virendra Dev Dixit is only a Bhai who has the power to manthan and as per Murlis, a brother cannot give varsa to other brothers….so PBKs have to wake up and realize this fact….i see him as no. 1 fraud…no. 1 imposter ..nothing less. (a brother impersonating as a Father.)

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 24 Sep 2013

shivachild wrote:soul of Om Radhey Mama=No. 1 Shivshakti=Bap
& soul of Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani=Dada;

Thus BapDada in combined form are narrating 'Avyakt Vanis' in the body of Dadi Gulzar in Mount Abu.
In your definition of BapDada you have completely forgotten Shiv? Doesn't He hold any importance for you?
And if the soul of Om Radhey Mama is the Father or Prajapita, then as per Murlis Prajapita should be present with the praja in corporeal form whereas according to you she is not present in a corporeal form, but just enters with the soul of Dada Lekhraj into Dadi Gulzar to narrate Avyakt Vanis. So, that proves that Om Radhey Mama is not Prajapita.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivachild » 24 Sep 2013

arjun wrote:In your definition of BapDada you have completely forgotten Shiv? Doesn't He hold any importance for you?
No. 1 Shivshakti is always combined with Shiv. (mother-Father combined)
arjun wrote: And if the soul of Om Radhey Mama is the Father or Prajapita, then as per Murlis Prajapita should be present with the praja in corporeal form whereas according to you she is not present in a corporeal form, but just enters with the soul of Dada Lekhraj into Dadi Gulzar to narrate Avyakt Vanis. So, that proves that Om Radhey Mama is not Prajapita.
Dear Arjun,
I too believe that No.1 Shivshakti=Om-Radhey Mama is not 'Prajapita Brahma'.

Because inheritance is not received from 'Prajapita Brahma'.

Murli dated 22.11.2012 says,"The Father gives an inheritance to you children. Only the two are called Baba. One is the Baba of the body and the other is the Baba of souls; no one else can be Baba. You cannot receive an inheritance from this Baba, that is, from Prajapita Brahma. Only from Shiv Baba do you receive an inheritance. Brahma also claims His inheritance from Him.

arjun wrote: according to you she is not present in a corporeal form, but just enters with the soul of Dada Lekhraj into Dadi Gulzar to narrate Avyakt Vanis. So, that proves that Om Radhey Mama is not Prajapita.
according to me soul of Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani just enters with the soul of Om Radhey Mama(No.1 Shivshakti) into Dadi Gulzar to narrate Avyakt Vanis.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by pbkindiana » 25 Sep 2013

Shivsena wrote:
In lokik life, in Father-child relationship, Father calls bacche-beta...in brother-brother relationship, Bhai-Bhai is used.
According to adv-Gyan, Lekhraj Kirpalani was partdhari(titleholder) prajapita with Father Shiv present in him and Lekhraj Kirpalani used to call children as bacche-bacche…..if Veerendra Dev Dixit is real prajapita with ShivBap present in him, then why does he not call every PBK as bacche-bacche !!....Veerendra Dev Dixit is only a Bhai who has the power to manthan and as per Murlis, a Brother cannot give varsa to other Brothers….so PBKs have to wake up and realize this fact….i see him as no. 1 fraud…no. 1 imposter ..nothing less. (a Brother impersonating as a Father.)


ShivBaba(Baba Dixit) will only call PBKs as bacche when the final examination is over. Moreover PBKs are also going along the path of not having 100% faith in Baba Dixit as the corporeal form of God of the Gita, as Maya too is playing her part with zeal and enthusiasm, just like a tug-of-war. Also not to forget that Baba Dixit too has to emulate His stage equal to Shiva.

AV. 30.1.2007 --"Until someone recognizes His true form and the true Father, they cannot attain complete purity or the power of truth." --- One has to recognize the true form of Godfather(i.e. with the body and not souls without bodies), then Father becomes the obedient servant. What else do we want?

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