Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

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mbbhat
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by mbbhat » 06 Nov 2012

I don't know why the BKs cannot find peace with the PBKs.

....well, why doesn't the BKWSU apply that to the PBKs?
That is drama and Maya. Just 108 will succeed. Majority will fail in Raja Yoga like very few only will pass in IAS, ICS exams.

One can find peace externally, only after he sees internally.

That is absolute truth.
--------
But, I feel PBKs cannot find peace with BKs more than the other. Because majority of BKs are least bothered about PBKs and many are not aware of them at all.

But, PBKs will be criticizing BKs from beginning, middle to end, even their knowledge, study activities- it is a main part.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by fluffy bunny » 06 Nov 2012

I have not looked at them all ... but many of the criticisms the PBKs make of the BKs are absolutely true.

As usual, you state the opposite to the truth. The BKs have been condemning non-BKs for 75 years called them demons, shudras, unselfrealised and so on. Even Gandhi.


As far as, the PBKs believe that the BKs and PBKs are one religion and yet the BKs even deny the existence of the PBKs and carry on a propaganda war against even going as far as to use damage of property and violence.

There is no comparison between the two levels of contempt. The BKWSU is carrying out an international campaign against the AIVV losing their peace of mind over it.

Of course, most BKs know nothing about it ... the leadership are covering the PBK existence up.

As far as I understand, the PBKs make spiritual observations of the BKWSU which will be proven in time to be either absolutely true or false. In the meantime, it is their subjective interpretation of the statements made within the Murlis. That is not an attack.

mbbhat
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by mbbhat » 06 Nov 2012

but many of the criticisms the PBKs make of the BKs are absolutely true.
It shows you are interested only in half knowledge/truth. you know there is enough false there in AIVV. Still you like and enjoy that company. go on.

[There is no need of PBKs to point out mistakes in PBKs. They are well known nd many of them are also said in Murlis. ]

If you believe you came to know those due to help of PBKs, it once again proves your level of intellect is very weak. You need help of others to know the truth.
----------------------------
Just to show how correct you are in your own words:-
1)As a BK Brahmin, as you claim you are, I have a right to expect* a higher standards of behaviour from you, or 2)the right to call you a disgrace to your religion.
1)You call DL as liar, fraud. You call Mama as idiot. For you all the Dadis, dids are third class people or even worse. And all BKs are either criminals or fools.

You have already criticized me enough number of times. Then what right do you have to expect from me?

2) When you feel all are third class in BKWSU, then what is there need to mention me separately? [this shows your understanding of truth]

And, when you call the whole religion itself is third class, then how can I be a disgrace to my religion?

*3) One should fulfil needs, not expectation/desires. As a braahimn, I have already fulfilled your needs. "Consider yourself as a soul and remember the bodyless Father. Forget body and all bodily materials."

Even though it is said to you several times, you cannot understand.

You do not know what is your right at all. Remember- No one has right to expect even from God. If so, then according your statement, God himself is the first culprit. Because he is above all. [He did not fulfill your expectations so far in searching truth, right? And many people in this world cry to god, pray him for help. even many do not have basic needs of life. ]

It is very sad that a truth seeker like you neither know nor understand** even basic of basics even after explaining.
----------------
First learn how to give respect (actually, that is not needed, just not attacking is enough) to others and maintain it if you wish to interact with them.

** - there is a saying.

One who understands by symbols is a deity.

One who understands by words is human.

One who does not understand even by words is devil , something like that.

We all need to check ourselves (including me) before accusing anyone in this world.

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arjun
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 07 Nov 2012

mbbhat wrote:The questions are not for general public. It is for BKs. [nice to see PBKs openly saying one more lie*]

I have seen the poster. Even today it is there in trains. I have not teared them.

The poster says- Brahmakumaris, give reply, else we will give.

It never says- Hey general public (or hey Brothers and Sisters), give reply.
Although the questions are addressed to the BKs it is for the general public as well because all these questions have been asked in the Murlis. Just because BKs have lost faith in ShivBaba they are afraid of asking the general public. So, we are taking these questions to the general public. Year after year Avyakt BapDada has been asking BKs to prove the God of Gita, but instead the BKs are just busy in extracting money and displaying their money power by organizing megaprogrammes.
I think- PBKs are frustrated and wish to defame BKs publicly.
None of the questions asked in the sticker are defamatory. If they are defamatory, you can go to the court.
Else- if the questions are for BKs, then why should they put it in public?
We are putting it in public because BKWSU has not responded to several letters/notices sent to them by registered post at different official addresses. Nor have they called us officially to discuss these questions relating to knowledge.
It is PBKs who consider BKs as enemies by the very title itself what they give - Kouravas.
We never called BKs as Kauravas. It is through our own actions that we prove whether we are Kauravas or Pandavas. OK, if you are a Pandava, then tell us where is ShivBaba in practical with you?
BKs do not criticize outseide people like PBKs criticize BKs.
BKs consider the non-BKs to be Kauravas, Shudras, sinful, tamopradhan, herons, dog in the manger, coal, hot frypans, prostitutes and pimps, etc.. There is very strong criticism of non-BKs in the Murlis. That is why BKWSU has been cutting and editing them and even hiding them continuously since 1969 so that they are not dragged to the court by people of other religions.
When I remember this point, it gives a great satisfaction and removes all the ill feelings about PBKs and i feel saakshi bhaav and gratitude to them and respect them fully.
This is just for name sake. The language that you use for PBKs everyday on this forum proves how much hatred you have for the PBKs. You have declared yourself that you are on this forum because of your ego. And an egotistic person will definitely show his anger as well. Anyhow you are free to follow the path of love or hatred. Om Shanti.

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arjun
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 07 Nov 2012

fluffy-bunny wrote:As far as, the PBKs believe that the BKs and PBKs are one religion and yet the BKs even deny the existence of the PBKs and carry on a propaganda war against even going as far as to use damage of property and violence.

There is no comparison between the two levels of contempt. The BKWSU is carrying out an international campaign against the AIVV losing their peace of mind over it.
Recently, one of my PBK friends gave the message of advance knowledge to his BK friends in his village situated in an eastern state of India. The message spread fast and the BKs of the entire village started liking the advance knowledge. All the BKs of that village including the BK couple in whose house a gitapathshala (Gita school) was being run, developed faith in advance knowledge. As soon as the sister incharge of the concerned BK center came to know of this she started narrating false stories about the PBKs and Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. When they did not budge, she started threatening them that she will bring police and take away all the things that were being used in the gitapathshala for service when they were BKs. It should be kept in the mind that a gitapathshala is not an official center of BKWSU. It is just a Murli class being run in a BK household. So, all the things that were used in that gitapathshala were bought by the owner of the gitapathshala or by the local BKs. But the BK sister forcibly put a lock to the room where all these things (cooking utensils, plates, a stablizer, fan, table, chairs, etc.) were stored. She has threatened to bring police to take these things away.

So, one can understand whether BKWSU considers them to be enemies or brothers or was just after their property all these years.

OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 07 Nov 2012

mbbhat wrote:The questions are not for general public. It is for BKs. [nice to see PBKs openly saying one more lie*]
40
“बाप द्वारा सच्ची गीता सुनने से सदगति होती है। तो कोई को भी पहले-पहले बाप का परिचय देना है। यह है मूल बात। परन्तु कोई की बुद्धि में नहीं बैठता है तब तो बाबा ने यह पोस्टर छपवाया है कि गीता का भगवान कृष्ण बच्चा है या परमपिता परमात्मा?....तो यह पोस्टर लाखों की अंदाज़ में छपाओ, सब भाषाओं में। अंग्रेज़ी में तो जरूर छपवाना चाहिए। जहां-जहां गीतापाठशाला हो वहां बांटते जाओ। पोस्टर पर एड्रेस भी लिखी हुई हो। बाबा डायरेक्शन देते हैं, करना तो बच्चों का ही काम है।“(ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक १०.१०.०७, पृ. १ एवं ३)

"By listening to true Gita from the Father one attains true salvation. So, first of all one should give the introduction of the Father to anyone. This is the main issue. But it does not fit into anyone’s intellect. That is why Baba has got this poster printed that – is the God of Gita the child Krishna or the Supreme Father Supreme Soul?....So, get this poster printed in lakhs in all the languages. It must certainly be printed in English. Wherever there is a Gitapathshala, you go on distributing it there. The address should also be written on the poster. Baba gives the direction, but it is for the children to act/do." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 10.10.07, pg 1&3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

101.
"आदि सनातन हिन्दु धर्म कह देते हैं। परन्तु हिन्दु धर्म तो आदि सनातन था नहीं। तुम अखबार में भी डाल सकते हो, मैगजीन की तो बात नहीं। अखबारें तो लाखों की अंदाज़ में छपती हैं। हां, वह पैसे तो बहुत लेते हैं। समझाने से वह डाल सकते हैं। चक्र भी डाल सकते हैं। बाबा ने जो प्रश्न लिखा था कि गीता का भगवान कृष्ण वा शिव? वह भी अखबार में डाल सकते हैं। कभी खर्चे पर डालते हैं, कभी फ्री भी डाल देते। बाबा तो कहते हैं बच्चे बड़ी अच्छी-अच्छी अखबारों में डालो, परन्तु हमेशा पड़े तब मनुष्यों की आँख खुले। एक बार डाला, कोई ने पढ़ा, कोई ने नहीं भी पढ़ा। रोज़ डालने से मनुष्यों की आँख खुलेगी। फिर आकर समझेंगे। पुरुषार्थ करने में भी कितनी मेहनत लगती है। बहुत माया के तूफान आते हैं। मेहनत तो है ना। अखबार में डालना, प्रदर्शनी करना। प्रदर्शनी तो एक गांव में होगी। अखबार तो चारों ही ओर जाती है।" (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक २०.११.०७, पृ.२)

“They say Aadi Sanaatan Hindu Dharma. But Hindu Dharma was not Aadi Sanaatan (first and ancient). You can publish in the newspapers also. It is not a matter of magazines. Newspapers are printed in lakhs. Yes, they charge a lot of amount. If you explain to them they may publish (free of cost). They may publish the Cycle also. The question that Baba had written that – Is God of Gita Krishna or Shiv - can also be published in the newspaper. Sometimes they publish on payment and sometimes they publish free of cost also. Baba says – Children, get it published in the big good newspapers. But if it is published always (i.e. regularly) then people’s eyes would open. If it is published once, someone reads it, someone does not read it. If it is published daily then people’s eyes would open. Then they will come and understand the knowledge. Making efforts involves a lot of hard work. One faces a lot of storms of Maya. It involves hard work, does it not? (It involves hard work) to publish in the newspapers, to organize exhibitions. Exhibition can be organized in one village. But the newspaper is circulated everywhere." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 20.11.07, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

1450
“तो यह ओपीनियन भी बहुत जरूरी है। आजकल जिनसे तुम ओपनिंग आदि कराते हो, वह लिखते हैं ब्रह्माकुमारियाँ अच्छा काम करती हैं। बहुत अच्छी समझानी देती हैं। ईश्वर को प्राप्त करने का रास्ता बताती हैं, इससे लोगों के दिल पर सिर्फ अच्छा असर पड़ता है। बाकी यह ओपीनियन कोई भी नहीं लिखकर देते कि दुनिया भर में जो मनुष्य कहते हैं ईश्वर सर्वव्यापी है, यह बड़ी भूल है। ईश्वर तो बाप, टीचर, गुरु है। एक तो मुख्य बात है यह, दूसरा फिर ओपीनियन चाहिए कि इस समझानी से हम समझते हैं गीता का भगवान कृष्ण नहीं है। भगवान कोई मनुष्य या देवता को नहीं कहा जाता है। भगवान एक है, वह बाप है। उस बाप से ही शान्ति और सुख का वर्सा मिलता है। ऐसी-ऐसी ओपीनियन लेना है। अभी जो तुम ओपीनियन लेते हो वह कोई काम की नहीं लिखते हैं। हाँ, इतना लिखते हैं कि यहाँ शिक्षा बहुत अच्छी देते हैं। बाकी मुख्य बात जिसमें ही तुम्हारी विजय होनी है, वह लिखाओ कि यह ब्रह्माकुमारियाँ सत्य कहती हैं कि ईश्वर सर्वव्यापी नहीं है। वह तो बाप है, वही गीता का भगवान है। बाप आकर भक्तिमार्ग से छुड़ाए ज्ञान देते हैं। यह भी ओपीनियन जरूरी है कि पतित-पावनी पानी की गंगा नहीं, परन्तु एक बाप है। ऐसी-ऐसी ओपीनियन जब लिखें तब ही तुम्हारी विजय हो। अभी टाइम पड़ा है।“(ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक 10.09.09, पृ. 1 एवं 2)

“So, this opinion is also very necessary. Now-a-days, the persons whom you call for opening ceremonies, etc. write that the Brahmakumaris do a good work. They explain very nicely. They show the path to reach God; this leaves only a good impression on the hearts of the people. But nobody writes the opinion that what people say throughout the world that God is omnipresent is a big mistake. God is a Father, a teacher and a guru. One main topic is this; then secondly an opinion is required that we understand through this explanation that God of Gita is not Krishna. No human being or deity is called God. God is one; He is the Father. We get the inheritance of peace and happiness only from that Father. You have to obtain such opinions. The opinion that you obtain now is not useful. Yes, they just write that teachings imparted here are very good. But the main topic through which you are going to gain victory is when they write that these Brahmakumaris say the truth that God is not omnipresent. He is the Father; He is the God of Gita. The Father comes and frees us from the path of Bhakti and gives knowledge. The opinion that the purifier of the sinful ones is not the Ganges of water, but one Father is also necessary. Only when they write such opinions that you will gain victory. There is still time.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 10.09.09, pg 1&2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

The above Murli points clearly show what ShivBaba wants the BKs to do. But instead of focussing on these core issues they have diversified to other fields not even related to the above topics. That is why although people say that "teachings imparted here are very good" but they are unable to realize that God is with BKs. How can they when the BKs themselves do not have faith in the practical form of ShivBaba. ShivBaba is asking BKs to take these topics to the general public. He is asking them to publish them in lakhs and bring them to their notice again and again. But when the PBKs are using their limited resources to get the stickers containing the above questions to the notice of BKs as well as general public, BKs are using all their resources to tear these stickers. In fact most of the BK teachers must be directing the BK students that it is ShivBaba's direction and Godly service to tear these stickers. That is why at most places the stickers pasted on one day are removed the very next day by the BKs. So, the BKs should think and churn whether they are acting as per Shrimat by tearing these stickers or whether they are violating the Shrimat. It is upto them.

mbbhat
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by mbbhat » 07 Nov 2012

We are putting it in public because BKWSU has not responded to several letters/notices sent to them by registered post at different official addresses. Nor have they called us officially to discuss these questions relating to knowledge.
BKWSU is not bound to reply to your questions.

Also- there is a Murli point:- Tumhen kisee se sun_ney ki darkaar nahin = there is no need to listen for you from others.

And the points present in poster of PBKs are different than those mentioned in the Murli points!
------------------
Good to know for the news of that Gita pathashala where PBKs did service. It is both test to senior BKs as well as filtering of BKs. At least this will make them more attentive in their effort.

Murli point says- even those who were in gyaan for 30 , 40 years will leave. Even Maharathis will fail. Then what about pyaades/soldiers?

So- nothing new.
-----------------
OK, if you are a Pandava, then tell us where is ShivBaba in practical with you?
Already discussed. This cannot be proved anywhere. But, ball lies more in court of PBKs, since they still depend on both Sakar and Avyakt Murlis which have come out from mouth of BKs (DL and Gulzar Dadi). so- i think- they should first prove it that they are independent in all respects to deliver their knowledge.

Also enough failures of god of PBKs is already put here, both by me and also by ex PBKs.

And, where PBKs have proved it? It is just their statement that ShivBaba is there. even Vishnu Party people, Krishna Party people also can say like that.

Anyone can say I am Prajapita like Mr. dixit said. Just if someone says, I am Prajapita or his followers say so, it is not enough.

And already two very clear Murli points which clearly say- There could be false BKs (so called BKs or PBKs) in future who may copy knowledge from BKWSU and try to put false costume of Prajapita. So- those Murli points prove that PBKs are against real pandavas.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 08 Nov 2012

mbbhat wrote:And the points present in poster of PBKs are different than those mentioned in the Murli points!
BKs are stuck up to the level of basic/primary school knowledge since 1969. That is why ShivBaba has opened this university (AIVV) to explain the deeper meanings of the Murlis.
Already discussed. This cannot be proved anywhere. But, ball lies more in court of PBKs, since they still depend on both Sakar and Avyakt Murlis which have come out from mouth of BKs (DL and Gulzar Dadi). so- i think- they should first prove it that they are independent in all respects to deliver their knowledge.

Also enough failures of god of PBKs is already put here, both by me and also by ex PBKs.

And, where PBKs have proved it? It is just their statement that ShivBaba is there. even Vishnu Party people, Krishna Party people also can say like that.

Anyone can say I am Prajapita like Mr. dixit said. Just if someone says, I am Prajapita or his followers say so, it is not enough.

And already two very clear Murli points which clearly say- There could be false BKs (so called BKs or PBKs) in future who may copy knowledge from BKWSU and try to put false costume of Prajapita. So- those Murli points prove that PBKs are against real pandavas.
Just repetition. Already replied several times earlier.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by mbbhat » 08 Nov 2012

You are correct. you are a complete soul.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Nov 2012

mbbhat wrote:BKWSU is not bound to reply to your questions.
Bound to? ... The BKWSU acts in a surprisingly ignorant manner at times.

The PBKs are a thorn in the BKWSU's flesh. They raise valid questions, disprove some of the BK Knowledge and make its teachers look stupid and superficial, hence the BKWSU becomes angry and upset at that. There is nothing more that the BK leaders hate than losing face in public it seems.

The BKWSU leaders acts like arrogant Kali Yugi rulers and thinks that they can ignore, intimidate, crush and win a war of misinformation against the PBKs, keeping their adherents away from them out of fear ... and yet the PBKs do not disappear and their numbers are increasing.

If the BKWSU was truly enlightened it would act in an entirely different way.

Has the BKWSU *ever* tried to find peace with the PBKs, or have they always tried to suppress them and their questions?
mbbhat wrote:You are correct. you are a complete soul.
These words are poisoned by their insincere intention. Not good behaviour.

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Nov 2012

mbbhat wrote:1)You call DL as liar, fraud. You call Mama as idiot. For you all the Dadis, dids are third class people or even worse. And all BKs are either criminals or fools.
As everyone here knows, my criticisms and investigations are far more in depth and complex than how you present them.

What would you call a man who thought he was God and the Gita Sermoniser for 18 years (until Shiva was introduced sometime after 1950) ... and young woman who was in love with him and who taught the same to others?

What would you call people who covered up the truth of the history of the Om Mandli and the BKWSU for decades afterwards?
It is very sad that a truth seeker like you neither know nor understand** even basic of basics ...
No ... I understand what you say but I do not accept it because the fact, logic and proposals are either false or incorrect and the intention is not good.

One should not accept that which is not absolutely true, good and right; and one should keep working, refining and discarding falsehood until one finds it.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivsena » 08 Nov 2012

To all PBKs.

Murli 7-11-12 says: "Don't waste your time. Neither gossip nor listen to gossip."
Virendra Dev Dixit(supposed ShivBaba) sits for hours in the morning, first giving dhristi (ie teaching hatyoga), and then gossipping for hours with PBKs discussing the Bhakti-queries....He never seems to get tired of answering the time-wasting queries and the vartalap sessions end only when PBKs get tired and stop asking queries.
These vartalap sessions should itself be an eye-opener to logical minded PBKs, that Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be ShivBaba.

shivsena.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by mbbhat » 08 Nov 2012

As everyone here knows, my criticisms and investigations are far more in depth and complex than how you present them.
Really? congratulations. But, I give you more than that. I give you full 100 marks.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by mbbhat » 08 Nov 2012

These vartalap sessions should itself be an eye-opener to logical minded PBKs, that Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be ShivBaba.
Yes.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Nov 2012

But, let's be clear, just because Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba does not make it any more likely that Lekhraj Kirpalani is god or has a monopoly on god being inside him either.

What we need to work towards is an even better understand of what "god" is.

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