Some evident errors

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by arjun » 15 Jul 2015

karan alias mbbhat wrote:I am God, you are God, everyone is God
In which Murli did ShivBaba tell you dear brother that I am God, you are God and everyone is God?????? ;-)

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by sita » 15 Jul 2015

As per PBKs claim by quoting that Murli point, it should be like some event should have happened in 1976 which was highly special as compared to the period from 1969 till 1976, is it not?
I think that at that time there was a leaflet distributed to the Bk centers with the points from the Advanced knowledge.
Even if it is for one personality, a personality cannot be called as Brahma and Krishna and Ram, all at the same time. Also note that sometimes Baba says Lakshmi is ahead of Narayan. Again, this one personality is B Baba, as most of the Murli points specifically say so, and not Mr Veerendra Dev Dixit.
Yes, Lakshmi is ahead of Narayan with respect to purity. Narayan also has an unlimited meaning – the one whose house is in the water of knowledge, who lives in the knowledge. Brahma Baba surrendered his life, so he will no doubt become Narayan. Mr. Dixit also has dedicated his life to the knowledge, maybe he can also become Narayan. There are many Narayans.
But Baba has also said "old points will not come into use". So, just if there is some reference, should it be followed just blindly? There are also references, as Baba has said - I am ling, thumb, indivisible infinite light, I am God, you are God, everyone is God. Should we follow them now?
There is difference between the two points. One is point of knowledge. As knowledge changes, points change. But the other is historical reference. This cannot change. Baba cannot say about them that it was not 20 years, it was 30 years, or that such personalities were not there at all.

But you can use the point “old points will not come into use” about every point from the Murli, then you will have a universal argument and no one will be able to prove anything.
Again has Baba said they are souls of Conf Aged LN?
The matter was that on this path it is not that our guru will leave and we will have to make, to appoint another one, to change it. You have said there is double standard, we point fingers to BKs that they appoint Dadis , but for us also, after Brahma Baba, now we have this new guru Mr. Dixit.

With the point that Brahma emerges from the navel of Vishnu and Vishnu emerges from the navel of Brahma I liked to illustrate that, according to the advanced knowledge interpretation, this one is accepted as the original one and Brahma Baba is regarded as temporarily sustaining the Yagya and playing the role of Brahma. And Vishnu is the form of Lakshmi and Narayan. And Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are all personalities from the Confluence Age. Golden Age is said to be the land of Vishnu, because it emerges from the form of Vishnu. You can clearly see on the picture of Trimurti, it is said "I sustain the deity world through Vishnu Chaturbuj". "I"means the supreme Father Shiva, and He is there in the Confluence Age only.

This is also another point with regards to Confluenced aged Lakshmi and Narayan, because if they were complete there would be no need for the Supreme Father to be there. The tasks of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar go on one after the other - Brahma, Shankar ,Vishnu; but they also go on together. At any given point of time, when one becomes a Brahmin, when he sustains the new family, the pure vibrations, where there are virtues and harmonizing of sanskars, the role of Vishnu is enacted. If we practice opposite knowledge, we slide towards Kaliyug and destroy our status. And among all souls, the ones with best effort and courage, the Supreme Father will help them.
Dear soul,
Have you witnessed Mr Dixit when he was arrested? An eye witness- a senior PBK member has said Mr Dixit was trembling when he was arrested. OK, leave it.
No, I have not witnessed. But you have information from an eye witness, so I cannot dismiss that. If Mr Dixit was trembling, he is not ShivBaba.
OK, leave it.
There is no need for special mercy on us. If you raise a point, raise it. What is the point in raising and asking to leave it. Don't raise it then.
Kamala Devi Dixit (Jagadamba of PBKs) had left AIVV and got married and has two children now. Do you believe she was not mentally affected? 
No I don't believe she was not mentally affected.
Interesting one sided arguments are- PBKs can just use words in subtle sense, in unlimited sense, etc., and use the points as they like, to argue one sided. But, they cannot take in the same way when the question of Prajapita comes. There they demand the personality to be in corporeal, even when lots of Murli points do not say so.

But, it is perfectly alright, as it is the way of interpretation of PBKs.
It is natural to have one sided argument when we present a one sided teaching. You have to agree that although many points can be disputed, (as it seems there are contradicting points in the Murlis) the advanced knowledge represents a complete teaching, supported with Murli points. It can be true or false, but you cannot avoid appreciating the fact that so many points of knowledge are connected in a clear theory and it also manages to explain the contradictions. And it is not only that, but a gathering is there, regular students, feeling of a family, practice of dharna, seva, etc.

You may have studied the Murlis intensively and you know many points related to many subjects, but it is a different thing altogether to come up with a new possibility which is supported with Murli points theory. Shivsena tries to do this advanced task of coming up with a new theory, but so far only 108 are able to understand it. Although there are many points in the advanced knowledge and new ones are also coming, but in its essence it is easy to comprehend. It is said easy knowledge, easy Raja Yoga.
PBKs can just use words in subtle sense, in unlimited sense, ...
We are concentrated on our spiritual effort, so subtle and unlimited matters are our priority. Who married whom, how many children did they have, who has done what, it is this 'par chintan' that leads us to downfall. You may say these are the leaders, so what about the followers, but everyone is answerable for their own acts. There are many PBKs who don't marry, face the police bravely, not all are as cowards as Baba and as degraded as Mama. Contrary to the claims, we are not preoccupied with any personality, but try to follow the knowledge from the Murlis.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by arjun » 16 Jul 2015

warrior wrote:Arjun, so what is the correct date of Veerendra Dev Dixit birth? He says it is not correct. What date is correct?

Please clarify.
The correct month and year of birth of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit as per reply given by Baba is June, 1942.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 16 Jul 2015

arjun wrote:In which Murli did ShivBaba tell you dear Brother that I am God, you are God and everyone is God?????? ;-)
It is not in Murli dear. It was the initial concept in Yagya. And, we have Murlis of just last few years , is it not dear?
From 1969 to 1975 BKs did not know anything about the Confluence Age Lakshmi-Narayan. They were confused as to when Krishna will be born and when he will grow up to become Narayan. But those BKs who started realizing the practical part of ShivBaba through Shankar (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit) understood as to who were the Confluence Age Lakshmi-Narayan from whom Golden Age Radha and Krishna would get birth.
Can you explain how Confluence Aged Krishna took birth (as Murlis clearly say there is instant when Krishna takes birth) and when he grew into Narayan? Can you explain this dear?

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 16 Jul 2015

sita wrote:No, I have not witnessed. But you have information from an eye witness, so I cannot dismiss that. If Mr Dixit was trembling, he is not ShivBaba.
My question was - Can Narayan tremble? If you believe Mr Dixit was Narayan from 1976, can such a person tremble?

Again
No I don't believe she was not mentally affected.
If you believe she and the other children were affected, will the Kingdom of Narayan be like this?
I think that at that time there was a leaflet distributed to the BK centers with the points from the Advanced knowledge.
Was the leaflet sent in 1969 regarding the matter of Confluence Aged Narayan? It should have been, as the Murli point was spoken in 1966, is it not so?

And, when Mr Virendra Dev Dixit tries to say something for which BKs do not have reply, it seems that PBKs get stuck like this- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adhyatmik ... _Vidyalaya
Wiki wrote:The group is made up of predominantly disaffected ex-members of the BKWSU University, some of whom had conflict with the BKWSU's local representative.[2]

Walliss identifies the Advance Party as radically re-interpreting the millenarianism of the BKSWU to regain its "true" original form. As a result they set a specific date of 2008 as that expected for the destruction of the world and the emergence of the millennial kingdom in 2036.[5]
So, here is a failure. On one hand, PBKs accuse BKs that they had not understood the real meaning of 1976 prediction, on other hand they themselves have announced, which are also failures.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by sita » 16 Jul 2015

Was the leaflet sent in 1969 regarding the matter of Confluence Aged Narayan? It should have been, as the Murli point was spoken in 1966, is it not so?
I think the leaflet was sent in 1976.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by arjun » 18 Jul 2015

karan wrote:Can you explain how Confluence Aged Krishna took birth (as Murlis clearly say there is instant when Krishna takes birth) and when he grew into Narayan? Can you explain this dear?
Birth means revelation. The revelation like birth took place in 1976, but very few people came to know of it. Later on when many surrendered BK sisters joined the Advance Party in 1988-89, it was like a lightning that accompanies the birth of Krishna.

He is going to be revealed as the Confluence Age Narayan in the near future. You can say that now he is the Confluence Age Krishna. He will be revealed as Confluence Age Narayan after his sanskars become one with those of the Confluence Age Lakshmi.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 21 Jul 2015

arjun wrote:Birth means revelation. The revelation like birth took place in 1976, but very few people came to know of it. Later on when many surrendered BK Sisters joined the Advance Party in 1988-89, it was like a lightning that accompanies the birth of Krishna.
Can you name the very few people? Is there any evidence that they have certified it? Are they (at least one or two) in AIVV today? Is there any experience of them regarding why they felt Mr Dixit from 1976 as Krishna (and why not during from 1969 till 1975)?

Again there is nothing explained here by PBKs so far- how the period 1976 was special when compared to the activities or incidents which took place in AIVV (during 1969 or 1888-89).
He is going to be revealed as the Confluence Age Narayan in the near future. You can say that now he is the Confluence Age Krishna. He will be revealed as Confluence Age Narayan after his sanskars become one with those of the Confluence Age Lakshmi.
PBKs write the Murli point as - "Kingdom of LN started from 1976 itself", which is not at all logical. Their Jagadamba left, married,... So, my point was- Is this the Kingdom of LN? Or can this at least be called as era of Krishna?

Also- how much time does Krishna take to become Narayan? Usually baba says- 20 to 30 yrs. But, here from 1976, till now, the Krishna has not grown into Narayan. Again ...?

But, one point is see here. At least now, our Arjun brother seems to call Mr Dixit as just Krishna (not Narayan). In other posts, he had written "For me, Baba Dixit is both Krishna and Narayan, etc". Something better.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 21 Jul 2015

sita wrote:I think the leaflet was sent in 1976.
PBKs believe Mr Dixit had sent a copy of his churning by regd post to BKWSU during 1969 itself. Is this second leaflet? If you have a copy of that, you may please post them. Else, just by saying Mr Dixit had been revealed as Narayan, blah, blah, does not fit.

Moreover, it is easy to say or declare that Mr Dixit was the Conf Aged Narayan in 1976 or after. Because when no one has a proper reply, to say something is easy. If he had said it in 1969 itself, it would have some more value.

If we see churning of Mr. Dixit, there is no anything special in it. He could not grasp even a little of the Yagya history or anything. In the document recovered from British library, we have got more information. Even then he could not solve the Sevakram issue. Nothing regarding date of births of the three personalities of either those births or next births. He just gives his interpretations which have totally no logic, evidence or proof.

But, again that is perfect as per drama. So, everything is right.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by sita » 21 Jul 2015

PBKs believe Mr Dixit had sent a copy of his churning by regd post to BKWSU during 1969 itself.
I don't know about such occurrence. I mean I know, but I think it was later than 1969. And I am not sure who had sent it. Was it Mr. Dixit himself or someone else.

The leaflet I mentioned was prepared not by Mr. Dixit, but by some of the people who at that time got faith that a new role of the supreme Father is going on. So they did their own effort to reveal the Father to their fellow brothers. In the Murli it is said that children reveal the Father and that foreigners reveal the Father. Foreigners here refers to the sanskars of the soul of belonging to certain foreign religion and not to the body. So in the year 1976 declared as the year of revelation of the Father, the foreign children revealed the Father to the world, spread the message about the role of the Father to the BK world. These children are regarded as the souls who are mentioned in the Murlis as fathers of Krishna who make less effort than Krishna.
PBKs write the Murli point as - "Kingdom of LN started from 1976 itself", which is not at all logical. Their Jagadamba left, married,... So, my point was- Is this the Kingdom of LN? Or can this at least be called as era of Krishna?

Also- how much time does Krishna take to become Narayan? Usually Baba says- 20 to 30 yrs. But, here from 1976, till now, the Krishna has not grown into Narayan. Again ...?

But, one point is see here. At least now, our Arjun Brother seems to call Mr Dixit as just Krishna (not Narayan). In other posts, he had written "For me, Baba Dixit is both Krishna and Narayan, etc". Something better.
These are addressed to Arjun, but let me also tell.

The correct Murli point is that.....when did this Lakshmi and Narayan got birth, 10 years less than 5000 years back. This is said in 1966. So 1976 is the birth of Lakshmi and Narayan. As it was mentioned, birth means revelation and also some initial stage of the souls of Lakshmi and Narayan realizing their own part. At that time they have not become complete yet, nor is it their rule, but just as Brahma Baba had intoxication that I will become prince Krishna in Satyug and Mama had the intoxication that I will become Radha, but they were not Krishna and Radha at that time, but it only sat in their intellects at a certain point, but it also sat in the intellect of the children at a certain point, and they were seeing in them the future Radha and Krishna, the future Lakshmi and Narayan. This point could have been even before 1976 for the confluence aged Lakshmi and Narayan - these are internal matters one can hardly give account of. It is equally hard to tell when, at which particular moment someone develops faith in the knowledge and starts believing Brahma Baba is to become Krishna for e.g. It happens gradually and slowly. 1976 is when they are revealed to the outside world, that is the small Brahmin world.

1976 is also the year of destruction and this destruction also starts in the small Brahmin family. Souls left due to declaration not materializing and when the Father is revealed, a sorting starts taking place as to who has faith, who has loving intellect and is victorious, and who has opposing intellect and is destroyed.

Although Jagadamba is regarded as Mahalakshmi, she is not seen as Lakshmi, because of being bead of the rudramala, a soul possessing king-like sanskars. That's why she may leave, etc, because of the independent character. The soul of Lakshmi comes from the Chandravanshis.

I don't know when and where has any PBK stated that it is now the rule of the confluence aged Lakshmi and Narayan, or leave alone now, that it has started in 1976. No. Neither then nor now is the rule of Lakshmi and Narayan. Now is the rule of Ravan. But for the souls who have recognized the Lakshmi and Narayan it could be said that they are in the Confluence Age, sometimes under the influence of Ram, sometimes under the influence of Ravan.

With regards the time needed for one to reach his complete stage, in the Murli it is said that it takes 40 to 50 years to become from tamopradhan to satopradhan. So 40 - 50 years from 1976 makes 2016-2026.

With regards why straight Narayan, it is straight, because it is in the same life, in the same body from shyam to sundar, but from a human being one becomes complete beggar first, first one becomes a brahmin and from complete brahmin one becomes a complete deity, from beggar one becomes prince. As mentioned the name Narayan is adopted after he sits on the throne, which has not happened. The points from the Murli that indicate that Lakshmi and Narayan rule in the Confluence Age are still valid, but it is something to take place in future.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 22 Jul 2015

Error No. 15) Total failure to explain year 1976:-
The leaflet I mentioned was prepared not by Mr. Dixit, but by some of the people who at that time got faith that a new role of the supreme Father is going on. So they did their own effort to reveal the Father to their fellow Brothers. In the Murli it is said that children reveal the Father and that foreigners reveal the Father.
No logic here. New children coming to Yagya (either BKWSU or AIVV) is a continuous process. Today, a few people may come to gyaan and get faith. Does it mean this year is also like 1976?
Birth means revelation
Of course, revelation had happened in 1969 itself, when Mr Virendra Dev Dixit had sent his churning to BKWSU by regd post, (they write so in their blog), is it not? Or do you mean to say, till 1976 role of Virendra Dev Dixit was not revealed?

So, point is- How and when did the attitude/drishti/belief about Virendra Dev Dixit change in 1976? For example, did BKWSU's (or members of AIVV or the world) thinking about Virendra Dev Dixit change in 1976? [It had changed in 1969 itself when he began to oppose/question them, is it not?].

So, again totally no logic in the arguments.
At that time they have not become complete yet, nor is it their rule,
Why do PBKs add the word rule in the Murli point?

OK, let it be. Now, did Virendra Dev Dixit get the feeling that I will become Krishna only in 1976 and not in 1969?
It is equally hard to tell when, at which particular moment someone develops faith in The Knowledge and starts believing Brahma Baba is to become Krishna, for e.g. It happens gradually and slowly. 1976 is when they are revealed to the outside world, that is the small Brahmin world.
Then why do PBKs stress on the year 1976?

But- At least few souls including B Baba and world people had experienced something new in 1936/37 itself by vision, or some activities, or inner feelings, etc. So, my point was, how come 1976 is highly important to AIVV?

Actually birth means revelation, means becoming brahmin. Krishna, Narayan are the words for deities. So, you may say Virendra Dev Dixit got revealed/birth as Prajapita in 1969 itself, is it not? Is there again birth of Mr Dixit in 1976?
1976 is also the year of destruction and this destruction also starts in the small Brahmin family. Souls left due to declaration not materializing and when the Father is revealed, a sorting starts taking place as to who has faith, who has loving intellect and is victorious, and who has opposing intellect and is destroyed.
Sorry, again no point here.

Leaving Yagya had been happening since long before. During beggary part itself, many children had left. And, even now many are leaving. Again of those who leave, only a very small percentage become PBKs.
Mu Point:- "If 4 people leave, ten people will come in brahmin family". [So, why bother?]

Even in AIVV, PBKs leave. So, can it be called as destruction of AIVV Yagya as well?

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by sita » 22 Jul 2015

Dear karan Bhai,

Please, don't make gross conclusions out of my statements. I am a new student, not so experienced and informed. I am trying my best, but someone else may explain better. Don't attribute it to the knowledge. And you seek to find faults, so I have to be flawless, that is not easy.

You like to prove revelation-like birth in 1969, but there is no basis for this. Nothing more has happened this year than Brahma Baba leaving the body and Mr. Dixit coming to knowledge. The revelation-like birth refers to the fact that previously no one knew about the soul of Ram. In 1976 on the basis of their personal faith that the Supreme Father is giving new knowledge through the soul of Ram, souls revealed the Father to the world. This is the faith in the new role of the Father I was talking about, not about someone believing in the role of the Supreme Father through Krishna/Brahma Baba and coming to knowledge. And these were BKs who got the new knowledge. Generally no one is able to convince a BK in some other knowledge. Again about when Mr. Dixit developed faith in himself and when the children developed faith in him, I am not able to give a date, because it is an internal process. But if you like to take 1969 as a special year, you can regard is as the time when the soul enters the womb, there is some time in between, till the new baby gets revealed to the world.

You speak about experience of newness in 1936 as proof of the part of the supreme Father. What newness? Visions? Trance? None of these is connected to knowledge. Brahma Baba did develop faith in himself as Krishna, but on what basis? Some say on the basis of having a vision of Vishnu uttering "I am you". Is this enough for you? This draws a line between souls developing faith on the basis of visions and experience, and on the basis of knowledge.

The newness in 1976 was the new information-like knowledge about the new role of the Father, about the fact we are to change in this life itself, matters about the Golden Age with regards to the Golden palaces, vimanas, etc., and the important point about the God of the Gita and this knowledge was based on the Murlis and a matter of explanation.

Souls losing faith in 1976 is different, because it is on the basis of failing of Baba's prediction. If someone leaves the Yagya due to his own inability it is different, but here it is Baba who failed. And it is not only about leaving the Yagya, you can well stay within the Yagya, do seva, etc., and still do it in a gross way, like business for a living without any faith in Baba, that is in the words of Baba.

Destruction will be there where there is no Father. Those who use physical power will be destroyed, destruction is destruction of status, those who were special in our eyes, we saw them as ordinary and those who were ordinary became great. Faithless intellect is destroyed. In 1976 establishment and destruction started hand in hand. On one side cries of victory on the other cries of distress. There is victory where there is Father, this is our birthright, there is peacelessness when we are orphans.

Destruction comes if we remember destructible things like the body of Brahma. Faithlessnes is when we consider ourselves creator and responsible for bringing about heaven and leave no space for the role of the Father. If we organize conferences, when in the Murli it is said that peace cannot come like that, it means we don't have faith in the Murli. If we remember only a point of light, we remember a non-living object, so we don't get jeevan-mukti, so our reward is destroyed.

Why was 1976 special? Because from one side it was the year of destruction and on the other the year of revelation of the Father. All of these are not claims of the PBKs, but declaration of Baba and announcement of BapDada. In the PBK knowledge there is just explanation about these. You may say 1976 was a test, etc., but if it was a test, there are results of the test, some pass, some fail. Explain this. Also why, and in what way was 1976 the year of revelation of the Father?

IMO those have failed who thought it to be a physical destruction.
Even in AIVV, PBKs leave. So, can it be called as destruction of AIVV Yagya as well?
Certainly destruction is going on in the AIVV.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 23 Jul 2015

sita wrote:You like to prove revelation-like birth in 1969, but there is no basis for this. Nothing more has happened this year than Brahma Baba leaving the body and Mr. Dixit coming to knowledge. The revelation-like birth refers to the fact that previously no one knew about the soul of Ram. In 1976 on the basis of their personal faith that the Supreme Father is giving new knowledge through the soul of Ram, souls revealed the Father to the world.
So, do you mean to say Mr Dixit got faith that he is going to become Ram's soul only in 1976, and not in 1969?
But if you like to take 1969 as a special year, you can regard it as the time when the soul enters the womb, there is some time in between, till the new baby gets revealed to the world.
I am not saying this. It is PBKs who say this as special year for them and sustenance through Mr Dixit had begun from 1969 itself.
You speak about experience of newness in 1936 as proof of the part of the supreme Father. What newness? Visions? Trance? None of these is connected to knowledge.
Knowledge is next. A child takes birth much before, then it begins to understand Knowledge fully. DOB is a most important date. And, in 1936 itself great incidents had taken place in BK Yagya, both from BKs as well as lokik point of view. Baba says, the essence of knowledge is just seed stage, the final paper is of one second. So, knowledge will not have place even in the end. Just fruit will be there.

Else, why the final paper is of one second? What knowledge can you deliver in one second?
This draws a line between souls developing faith on the basis of visions and experience, and on the basis of knowledge.
PBKs knowledge is based mainly on just manipulations. It is proved in this forum. Lots of errors of different types are disclosed here.

OK. Even then, why are PBKs bothered about entrance of ShivBaba in someone other than B baba? Without any proof, why do PBKs claim that ShivBaba had entered in someone else in 1936?
----------------
You may say 1976 was a test, etc., but if it was a test, there are results of the test, some pass, some fail. Explain this.
What is there to explain. Those who have failed, left. That is all.
Also why, and in what way was 1976 the year of revelation of the Father?
Yet to know. If possible, quote the Murli point. I will try to know more. But, your points do not fit there.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by sita » 23 Jul 2015

So, do you mean to say Mr Dixit got faith that he is going to become Ram's soul only in 1976, and not in 1969?
I told you. There is no way I can know and tell about this?
Knowledge is next. A child takes birth much before, then it begins to understand Knowledge fully. DOB is a most important date. And, in 1936 itself great incidents had taken place in BK Yagya, both from BKs as well as lokik point of view. Baba says, the essence of knowledge is just seed stage, the final paper is of one second. So, knowledge will not have place even in the end. Just fruit will be there.
That is fine. First is Bhakti and then Gyan.

Which great incidents you mean?

I agree that the purpose of Gyan is that we can have Yaad, that the essence of knowledge is to achieve the seed stage, but then why would Baba narrate Murlis for years, instead of giving us an experience? Probably because it depends on our own effort. It depends on us how much we study, how much we churn, how much effort we make to attain the seed stage.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 23 Jul 2015

Error No. 16)Most of the theories in AIVV seem to be just manipulations:-
arjun wrote:The correct month and year of birth of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit as per reply given by Baba is June, 1942.
On what basis, did he discover his DOB suddenly, only now? What happened to the Day of birth, is it still a mystery? What is the proof of this declaration? Just hearsay, and BLIND BELIEF?
Does he still believe, and do all PBKs still believe, that he was Shevak Ram, the material diamond business partner of Dada Lekh Raj, in his previous birth, or has he turned turtle regarding this as well?
Because, there have been many misrepresentations regarding this matter also? And concerned Shevak Ram is known to have left his corporeal body only between 1946 and 1947, and not in 1942?
If he can determine his date of birth now, why can he not determine and declare DOBs and names of all the three personalities of the beginning period?

Most of their theories and propagations seem to be just manipulations of this slip-shod nature!

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