Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 12 Sep 2015

Definitely yes. ONLY after giving EVIDENT proof of subtle stage in a corporeal body, then only can one get promoted. [Of course, some may get promoted after appropriate punishment].

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 04 Aug 2016

from here - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51665#p51665
sita wrote:The aim of Gandhi and Nehru was independence from british rule, this was their Ramrajya. Gandi did not see it, Nehru saw it.
No real valid points.
Gandhiji expected a different Kingdom, not just freedom from British rule. He expected much better society- without crime, blind faith, or blind rituals; free from animal sacrifice, free from untouchability concepts, etc., etc. He had also expected - if a woman can walk freely on road during midnight, then it is true independence, something like that. He also had pointed to lots of mistakes made by Indians, and not just trying to conquer British (here, Maya).

Of course, Nehru became PM. But could not rule properly. He could not handle partition problems, also lost war with China, and as good as lost land to Pakistan, even after winning war.
I imply that Nehru refers to Prajapita.
Nehru did not get title Father of Nation. Only Gandhiji got it. Nehru was supported just by Congress people. But, Gandhiji is supported by many (except some hard hindutva people).

----------------

Regarding the Murli 18-2-76, it is once again clear that PBKs do not take whole of the Murli point. Read the next two sentences in the Murli point given in the link. Lots of discussion had already been done there with PBKs. If you have something to add, you may add there or here.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 04 Aug 2016

If Gandhi and Nehru refer to the two righteous children of ShivBaba who are Brahma (who becomes Vishnu) and Shankar I think Gandhi has more female part, like a mother of the nation in a male form, like Brahma Baba who is Jagadamba.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 05 Aug 2016

Even though it was said that Mama has taken rebirth in Nepal, it is also said that she does not have a body.

"Although Mama does not have a body, she continues to make efforts. She goes out on service. She enters into the bodies of children and shows the way to the sinful to become pure." (22-7-72 pg-2)

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 06 Aug 2016

sita wrote:"Although Mama does not have a body, she continues to make efforts. She goes out on service. She enters into the bodies of children and shows the way to the sinful to become pure." (22-7-72 pg-2)
Mostly, this is an error purposely committed by Mr. Dixit. A clear similar sample is here- Error No. 01 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593 .So, Hindi version is necessary.
--Moreover, at many places PBKs avoid the word "Naheen = No", which is very next to the sentence, thereby assuming exactly opposite of the Murli point. See error No. 02 there itself which says- This is "absolutely wrong".
---Another clear example is here- the first post - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2017&p=29155&hilit=lagaa#p29155
sita wrote:If Gandhi and Nehru refer to the two righteous children of ShivBaba who are Brahma (who becomes Vishnu) and Shankar I think Gandhi has more female part, like a mother of the nation in a male form, like Brahma Baba who is Jagadamba.
I believe- the assumption itself is wrong. Problem for Mr. Dixit is- he claimed "All the Murli points refer to Conf. Aged braahmins, not to lowkik people", to justify and propagate his false theories.
---So, deliberately, he had to equate Gandhi and Nehru to a BK or PBK. This is another type of spiritual suicide committed by Mr. Dixit.
Saying- Role of Gandhi is like a male and that of Nehru is female, would look very silly. Gandhiji was fully active in all the field, he had gone into prison, (not just Nehru, and the seed was sown by Gandhi and then only Nehru came. { I am even not saying Nehru played female part. ]

Moreover- in PBK view- B baba is NOT the righteous child. They believe B Baba is a ghost, number one false Guru, misuses body of Mr Dixit to the extent that he slaps some sister even in amrutvela, as well as committed atrocity on the mother. Where do the Murli points fit?
---But, since PBKs are already caught in the clutches of Mr. Dixit, they have no other choice except agreeing to his (mis)interpretations.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 07 Aug 2016

Mostly, this is an error purposely committed by Mr. Dixit. A clear similar sample is here- Error No. 01 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593 .So, Hindi version is necessary.
--Moreover, at many places PBKs avoid the word "Naheen = No", which is very next to the sentence, thereby assuming exactly opposite of the Murli point. See error No. 02 there itself which says- This is "absolutely wrong".
---Another clear example is here- the first post - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2017&p=29155&hilit=lagaa#p29155
So you say there is some error in this Murli point? Please, clarify what is the error.

Anyway, please, state according to you. Has Mama taken a body or not.
I believe- the assumption itself is wrong. Problem for Mr. Dixit is- he claimed "All the Murli points refer to Conf. Aged braahmins, not to lowkik people", to justify and propagate his false theories.
---So, deliberately, he had to equate Gandhi and Nehru to a BK or PBK. This is another type of spiritual suicide committed by Mr. Dixit.
Saying- Role of Gandhi is like a male and that of Nehru is female, would look very silly. Gandhiji was fully active in all the field, he had gone into prison, (not just Nehru, and the seed was sown by Gandhi and then only Nehru came. { I am even not saying Nehru played female part. }

Moreover- in PBK view- B Baba is NOT the righteous child. They believe B Baba is a ghost, number one false Guru, misuses body of Mr Dixit to the extent that he slaps some Sister even in amrutvela, as well as committed atrocity on the mother. Where do the Murli points fit?
---But, since PBKs are already caught in the clutches of Mr. Dixit, they have no other choice except agreeing to his (mis)interpretations.
It is the worldly people who compared Brahma and Vishnu with Gandhi and Nehru. And Brahma and Vishnu belong to the brahmin world.

For us there are two righteous children. Baba has said two. For you Gandhi and Nehru are one and the same soul in different time. For you there is no Shankar in corporeal form.
They believe B Baba....misuses body of Mr Dixit to the extent that he slaps some Sister even in amrutvela, as well as committed atrocity on the mother.
Who has told you that?

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 07 Aug 2016

sita wrote:So you say there is some error in this Murli point? Please, clarify what is the error.
Already pointed the great blunder committed by PBK Roy in the other topic given in the link. In the Murli point, there was no word "effort". This was added by AIVV literature. Kindly read properly before replying.
Anyway, please, state according to you. Has Mama taken a body or not.
I have already said at many other places, even with discussion with you. Please go through them.
It is the worldly people who compared Brahma and Vishnu with Gandhi and Nehru. And Brahma and Vishnu belong to the Brahmin world.
No. Baba sometimes speaks 'in a lighter vein' in the Murli. There is some resemblance. Baba many times speaks in a lighter vein in the Murlis. It does not mean that there is some great hidden nectar in that point in the way PBKs believe.

SM 25-9-73(4):- Bachchiyaan panda bankar aati hain. Vah achcha hai. Pande bankar aanaa service ki nishaani hai. Vah achchaa hai. Do2 varsh may koyi ko le na aave to unko hajaam panda kahenge. Baba hasi kudi karte hain. Tum to sikhiladhe bachche ho. Ishwar kahte hain tum mere praan ho. Main tum pranon ka Ishwar hun. Praan aatma ko kaha jata hai.

= ....Baba sometimes speaks 'in a lighter vein' (in Murlis)...
For us there are two righteous children.
PBKs do not have any righteous children at all. Because they believe- one is riding, controlling or misusing the other. And, their whole philosophy is mainly proving one righteous child greater than other. :laugh:
And, just recently , you yourself have said- the part through one of your/the righteous child was not great.
The other righteous child, whom you claim to be righteous- the Murli point clearly says- he went into stomach of python.
For you, Gandhi and Nehru are one and the same at different points of time.
Just again a plain lie dear. You are assuming lies. Where have I said- Gandhi and Nehru are one? It is because you have assumed just in your view. For us, Brahma and Prajapita are one and the same. We do not compare them with Gandhi or Nehru. (in the way PBKs compare). Of course, Baba sometimes compares 'in a lighter vein'. It is not a serious point for BKs.
And- true, for us, Brahma and Vishnu are same soul, at different points of time. [Actually it is "B, S so V(Lakshmi and Narayan)", not just B so V". But, since in lowkik world, it is said- B so V, Baba uses that to explain].
For you there is no Shankar in corporeal form
Partly true. We do not have enough knowledge about Shankar.
I believe Shankar is a pure soul, hence even if he acts through a corporeal body, the subtle body/stage will be doing service automatically. And- that soul has absolutely no vice, or feeling of 'karmabandhan'.
Who has told you that?
Ask the most senior PBK arjun soul. With him an ex PBK had done this discussion on the forum. You do not read most important discussions on the forum, and just put your views without having enough either practical knowledge or what all incidents have ACTUALLY occurred in AIVV - NEITHER are you inclined to believe in them.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 07 Aug 2016

Already pointed the great blunder committed by PBK Roy in the other topic given in the link. In the Murli point, there was no word "effort". This was added by AIVV literature. Kindly read properly before replying.
But you are pointing towards some other Murli points. I was asking if there is some mistake in the Murli point about Mama.

You may have replied, but I may have forgotten. Please, reply in short. Is Mama in a body or not.
And- your own leader had went into stomach of python.
Not possible.
Where have I said- Gandhi and Nehru are one?
What is the meaning that you derive from the saying that Brahma emerges from the navel of Vishnu and Vishnu emerges from the navel of Brahma. Is it not that Vishnu - that is Krishna or Narayan of the Golden Age, after taking 84 births, become Brahma Baba in the Confluence Age and Brahma Baba becomes Krishna in the Golden Age? Is it not about a single soul? This was the point I was making that Nehru and Gandhi were not one and the same person and had even lived together.
PBKs do not have any righteous children at all. Because they believe- one is riding, controlling or misusing the other. And, their whole philosophy is mainly proving one righteous child greater than other.
And, just recently , you yourself have said- the part through one of your/the righteous child was not great.
Although children are two, one of them is elder.
Ask the most senior PBK arjun soul. With him an ex PBK had done this discussion in the forum. You do not read most important discussions in the forum, and just put your views without having enough practical knowledge.
I know that discussion, but how can you say someone is misusing the body. Such an argument has no value in court. Responsibility lies on the corporeal.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 07 Aug 2016

sita wrote:Not possible.
Again clearly showing ignorance of PBKs. Already put at several places on the forum. Just go to topic "Flaws in PBK philosophy" and search for the word "python" and you will see what the Murli point says about.

Rest- already replied.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 07 Aug 2016

Again clearly shown ignorance of PBKs. Already put at several places in the forum. Just go to topic Flaw in PBK philosophy and search for the word "python" and you will see what the Murli point says about.
Can ShivBaba go into stomach of a python?

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 07 Aug 2016

sita wrote:Can ShivBaba go into stomach of a python?
I said- (the Murli point which PBKs quote to prove their stance) implies that - "PBK leader, Virendra Dev Dixit, went into the stomach of a python". But, the PBK member here perceives it as if I had meant it for ShivBaba or God! :laugh:

This is a wonderful example/proof, which clearly demonstrates the degraded or double-standard intellects of PBKs, and their 'Blind Vision'.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 24 Aug 2016

From - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&hilit=blood&start=780
sita wrote:The quote we have is from an earlier edition, from before 76. It is possible that some correction has been made in the later edition, because corrections have started mainly after 76.
1) Not sure whether you are putting allegations on BKWSU (regarding correction*) or accepting mistake from AIVV side (for the replacement of the word). But- in any case, PBKs do not have any strong point of argument.
----Because Corrections (from BK side) started only in late 1980s, when AIVV practically started.
----And- it is not just ONE CORRECTION. Several other mistakes from AIVV have also been pointed out.
----And- ball lies in the court of PBKs to show the original dated Murli. Because it is PBKs who claim the word as- "RULE" - whereas it is actually "ESTABLISHED". In most of other Murlis, we can see the word ESTABLISHED. But, in no Murlis it is said- RULED. (except the one what PBKs give the date- but still have no proof).

* 2)- If you are saying/implying- the actual word in Murli is "rule" and BKWSU has typed/corrected it as "established", you may kindly express your belief.
It would not be a surprise, because before the demise of Brahma Baba all used to think that destruction will happen in their lifetime and they will be protected during the times of destruction it means they will survive it. When the declaration has been made in 66 it did not occur to anyone's mind that Brahma Baba would leave and take birth in 76 to get birth as Narayan (Krishna), because there is no time for that. Radha and Krishna have to become mature before ascending the throne of Lakshmi and Narayan. And it was proclaimed that the rule of Lakshmi and Narayan will start from 76. So it was believed that they will survive the destruction, as Baba would give them protection.
3)This is just PBK assumption which is partly right.
BKs might have thought- destruction would happen in 1976, - And Krishna will take birth soon. For BKs, Krishna or Narayan does not differ, in the sense that when it is said LN took birth, it implies that they took birth as RK. Even if the Murli point says- LN took birth, BKs may apply it for RK. So, the underlined words are just PBK assumption.
It is said in the Murli that Radha and Krishna are from different kingdoms. It is also said that it is the Advance Party who will give birth to Radha and Krishna. If we take that in a literal meaning it will mean that some souls from the Advance Party must take rebirth as kings and queens. This has been the belief, as Mama has been physically traced in Nepal and in the royal court there....
4) Mr Dixit somehow tried to fit his theory using the Murli point said in the underlined sentence and hijacked the word "Advance Party". But, other Murli points on Advance Party clearly prove PBKs cannot be real Advance Party souls. As they clearly say
----- Advance Party souls would not be in the same body.
-----Their chance to have knowledge is quite lesser.
----- They are unlikely to give gyaan to others.
-----They would be doing service mainly from their character.

---- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... baal#p9119

----You can also see how PBK arjun brother argued illogically. -- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2515&start=15

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 25 Aug 2016

---- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... baal#p9119

I think Mama would be revealed at the end in corporeal form - since she has body now
You have expressed an opinion that Mama has a body now. Do you still think the same? What do you think about the below point then?

"Although Mama does not have a body, she continues to make efforts. She goes out on service. She enters into the bodies of children and shows the way to the sinful to become pure." (22-7-72 pg-2)


= RESPONSE =

The above Version was spoken during the INTERIM PERIOD - AFTER Saraswati Mama left her previous corporeal body, and PRIOR entering her current corporeal body.

For the benefit of interested viewers -
Souls who have developed a relatively high 'akari' stage of consciousness, can interact with the soul of Saraswati Mama and Brahma Baba, EVEN MORE REALISTICALLY, than can EVER be possible through any type of interaction through corporeal bodies!

Saraswati Mama currently lives in a spacious mansion in Nepal, on the outskirts of Kathmandu, in the isolated hilly terrain, with her 'lokik' parents, who are related to the Royal Family. Her 'lokik' father is held in high esteem within the Government of Nepal. Her 'lokik' functions, related to providing valuable guidance to the Government of Nepal, occupy about 3 hours of her time during the day, and this information is carried by her 'lokik' father to the City, since she herself works only through her own Office in her own mansion.
All the required fruits and vegetables are grown in the fertile land around the mansion, which is tended to by local natives. Only lentils and dry fruits are purchased from the City by her father. Her food mainly consists of fresh fruits and lightly steamed vegetables, as also porridge and soups. She advises that food should not be PRESSURIZED or cooked with HIGH HEAT, like ovens, including microwave oven!
She is CONSTANTLY LINKED and CONNECTED with Brahma Baba and ShivBaba through her intellect, and her World spiritual service is carried out ONLY in 'Akar', through her subtle body. She does not visit the local Brahma Kumari Centre at Kathmandu through her corporeal body, but DOES SO through her subtle body, regularly. Even when she performs her specific 'lokik' function for about 3 hours during the day, that time is NOT EXCLUSIVELY DEVOTED to such work, since she is CONSTANTLY LINKED and CONNECTED with BapDada through her intellect, and the subtle spiritual World service also continues SIMULTANEOUSLY!

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 25 Aug 2016

sita wrote:1) You have expressed an opinion that Mama has a body now. Do you still think the same?
What do you think about the below point then?

2) "Although Mama does not have a body, she continues to make efforts. She goes out on service. She enters into the bodies of children and shows the way to the sinful to become pure."
(22-7-72 pg-2)
1) I believe Mama has a corporeal body. But, since she has already attained karmaateet stage*, when it is mentioned that 'she continues to make efforts', it means she continues to do spiritual service of showing 'the way to the sinful to become pure', through her subtle body, just like Brahma Baba. ShivBaba also continues to make spiritual efforts in order for the Children to become pure. The meaning of the Version has to be understood in the RIGHT CONTEXT!
'Continues to make efforts', can mean for the self, or for others. ShivBaba, Brahma Baba and Saraswati Mama are now involved in making efforts for the PURIFICATION of ALL souls and PURIFICATION of the elements.

2) I believe the underlined words have been MISINTERPRETED/MISAPPROPRIATED by Mr. Dixit; as already a similar blunder** is shown here- Error No. 1) - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593

Now- regarding the bold line in the Murli point- the Murli point would be of year 1967 ?? (revised in 1972). Baba would have said at that time- "Mama does not have body", which can also mean that she does not use her corporeal body to interact on a corporeal level, with BKWSU, as well as the outer World, but she does spiritual service only through her subtle stage of consciousness or subtle body, just like Brahma Baba, who does not have a corporeal body. Baba has disclosed something more about her, later, in the Avyakt Vanis.

* - Even if she has a corporeal body, she will act through her subtle stage of consciousness, such that it is as good as her soul entering in someone and doing spiritual service of showing them the way to become pure. - Baba has already said here- Post No. 170) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 70+#p14353

See Baba compares Mama with HIMSELF.

3) SM 08-11-72(1):- Tumhaaree Mama kisko bhee samjhaatee thee to teer lagtaa thaa na. Unmay sachchaayi, pavitrataa thee. Lobh vaa krodh naheen thaa. Thee bhee kumari. AB BHEE SERVICE KAR RAHEE HAI. KAHENGE Mama TO ABHEE HAAJIRAA HAJOOR HAI, UNKI ATMA AMAR HAI, AB BHI SERVICE KAR RAHI HAI. JAISE KAHENGE ISHWAR HAAJIRAA HAJOOR HAI, Unki atma ab haajraa hajoor hai aur service kar rahi hai. To hamadh hota hai usney zaroor aisaa purushaarth kiyaa hoga. Unkaa naam bhi pahley baalaa hai. Pahley Lakshmi, peeche Narayan. Toh yahaan bhi pahley Mama gayi. Toh Baap kahte hain Mama jaise gun dharan karo. -9- [Mama, repeat inf]
= "When your Mama used to explain to anyone, then the arrow would touch, is it not? She had truthfulness and purity. She did not have greed or anger. She was also a Kumari. Now also, she is doing service. One can say that Mama is EVER PRESENT (on World Spiritual Service). Her soul is immortal. She is doing service even now. Just as you would say that God is EVER PRESENT, her soul is now EVER PRESENT and doing service. So it is evident that she definitely made such efforts. Her name is also renowned first. First Lakshmi, then Narayan. So here also Mama went first. So the Father says: inculcate virtues like Mama (soul of Om Radhe)."

4) Also- note how baba uses the word omnipresent.

SM 11-1-82(2):- Abhi tum baithe ho jaante ho Baba ki Yaad may baithe hain. Parampita Parmatma ke sammukh baithe hain. ISKO KAHA JATA HAI OMNIPRESENT. Haazir naazur to abhi hai na. Kyaa karte hain? Zaroor karm karte honge. Karm akarm vikarm kaa raaz samjhaa rahe hain sammukh. -14 [WOT, sarvavyaapi, spirit]
= "Now you know that you are sitting in the remembrance of Baba. You are sitting in front of Supreme Father Supreme Soul. This is called being OMNIPRESENT! He is EVER PRESENT now, is it not? What does He do? Definitely He performs actions. He is explaining the secrets of ACTION, NEUTRAL ACTION and SINFUL ACTION, face to face."

Hence, ShivBaba also continues to make spiritual efforts in order for the Children to become pure - NOT FOR THE SELF, BUT FOR OTHERS.

** 5) Further- as mentioned above- 'she continues to make efforts', means she is still doing spiritual service, just like Brahma Baba and ShivBaba. Churning on karmaateet stage is put here. -
http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 270#p15438

6) SM 2-3-89(2):- Yah baapdaadaa donon ikatte hain. Mama sabse achchi samjhati thi. BACHCHE SAAKSHAATKAAR BHI KARTE THEY SAMPOORN Mama KA. KAHAAN ZAROORI HOTA TOH BABA BHI PRAVESH KARKE AATAA THAA. Yah sab samajhne ki baatein hain. Padhayi phursat ke samay hoti hai. -85

= "BapDada are both together. Mama used to explain the best among all. Children even used to have visions of COMPLETE (form of) Mama. Where ever required, Baba also used to enter and come. These aspects have all to be understood (in the correct perspective and the correct context). Study can take place at the right/free time."

The above Sakar Murli point is- 1989 March - which is likely to fall on date - 1964 Feb/March/April. So, complete form of even Mama also was made visible to others by vision. As already said in the Post No. 170) - it implies she is on the top couple beads - from any logic.

So- I do not think PBKs have room to claim something different.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 25 Aug 2016

What about the words: "Although Mama does not have a body"?
OK. I got an answer. It is about a period in between.
Saraswati Mama currently lives in a spacious mansion in Nepal, on the outskirts of Kathmandu, in the isolated hilly terrain, with her 'lokik' parents, who are related to the Royal Family. Her 'lokik' father is held in high esteem within the Government of Nepal. Her 'lokik' functions, related to providing valuable guidance to the Government of Nepal, occupy about 3 hours of her time during the day, and this information is carried by her 'lokik' father to the City, since she herself works only through her own Office in her own mansion.
All the required fruits and vegetables are grown in the fertile land around the mansion, which is tended to by local natives. Only lentils and dry fruits are purchased from the City by her father. Her food mainly consists of fresh fruits and lightly steamed vegetables, as also porridge and soups. She advises that food should not be PRESSURIZED or cooked with HIGH HEAT, like ovens, including microwave oven!
She is CONSTANTLY LINKED and CONNECTED with Brahma Baba and ShivBaba through her intellect, and her World spiritual service is carried out ONLY in 'Akar', through her subtle body. She does not visit the local Brahma Kumari Centre at Kathmandu through her corporeal body, but DOES SO through her subtle body, regularly. Even when she performs her specific 'lokik' function for about 3 hours during the day, that time is NOT EXCLUSIVELY DEVOTED to such work, since she is CONSTANTLY LINKED and CONNECTED with BapDada through her intellect, and the subtle spiritual World service also continues SIMULTANEOUSLY!
Where do you have this information from? Do you speak about an actual person? If she has a corporeal body now, she has to leave it also, so that she can take birth like Radha, is that right?


= RESPONSE =

For the benefit of interested viewers -
Souls who have developed a relatively high 'akari' stage of consciousness, can interact with the soul of Saraswati Mama and Brahma Baba, EVEN MORE REALISTICALLY, than can EVER be possible through any type of interaction through corporeal bodies!

The answer to the first question has already been clarified above, as also in earlier response.
Saraswati Mama is an actual person in an actual corporeal body of her own.
The answer to the third question is AFFIRMATIVE.

Better comprehension of these subtle aspects can be obtained by properly studying the relevant AVs, and developing own 'akari' stage of consciousness, so that one does not have to depend on the understanding/comprehension/experience/opinion of others, under the circumstances.

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