Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

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mbbhat
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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 26 Aug 2016

sita wrote:Where do you have this information from?
From reliable sources- which I am not 100% sure, but believe probability is more than 50%.
If she has a corporeal body now, she has to leave it also, so that she can take birth like Radha, is that right?
Yes, she will have to leave her body. She will leave body when the last bell rings.
Now- you may question- does not that then become 84 plus 1 = 85 births?- etc, etc. These are silly matters, as in some special cases, such things may be there.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 26 Aug 2016

Now- you may question- does not that then become 84 plus 1 = 85 births?- etc, etc. These are silly matters, as in some special cases, such things may be there.
Yes, this question would arise. Why would it be silly? Do you mean that Baba speaks generally and not so accurately about 84 births and if it is 85 it is an acceptable exception.

How many births can a soul take in the same gender?

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 26 Aug 2016

sita wrote:Yes, this question would arise. Why would it be silly? Do you mean that Baba speaks generally and not so accurately about 84 births and if it is 85 it is an acceptable exception.
There can be special cases. Baba has said- some may take 2 to 3 births as brahmins. It is not said for all.
How many births can a soul take in the same gender?
It has already been mentioned several times in the SMs that a soul can take maximum 2 births in the same gender, after which the soul would change the gender - GENERALLY SPEAKING. It has to be appreciated that all these declarations are made generally, and there would ALWAYS be exceptions to same, which is also revealed in the Knowledge, if one cares to pay attention carefully to the subtle aspects contained therein.

It is mentioned in the SMs that in Satyug there would be only 2 children per couple, first being male, taking birth around the middle age of the mother (about 75 years old), and second being female, 8 to 12 years later.
Now, if this is an ABSOLUTE STATEMENT, and if only two children are born per couple, for ALL couples in Satyug, then THERE CAN BE NO INCREASE IN POPULATION!
Hence the above holds good ONLY for the RULING CLAN, or the Sovereigns, and NOT for the general populace, who would have more than 2 children, with the passage of time, in RamRajya.

This is also NOT an ABSOLUTE STATEMENT for the RULING CLAN, FOR ALL TIME, since the last pair of LN would have TWO siblings of the same gender, due to which the name of the dynasty changes from LN to RS.
Everything needs to be understood in its proper perspective, that is why remembrance is given the TOP-MOST priority, since if there is no PURITY of the INTELLECT, through ACCURATE remembrance, it would not be possible to comprehend ANYTHING in the correct perspective.

Therefore, instead of 'CARRY ON CLEO', it should be 'CARRY ON REMEMBRANCE'!

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 26 Aug 2016

When exceptions are too much, it is like a parallel theory.


= RESPONSE =

CORRECT! There ESSENTIALLY has to be a PARALLEL THEORY for the sovereigns of the 'Night of the Cycle', EXTRACTED & FORMULATED from the VERY SAME Pure Versions of God in the SMs and AVs,
by CORRUPTING, ADULTERATING, MISINTERPRETING, MISREPRESENTING, MISAPPROPRIATING, REVERSING & INVERTING them, to be in ABSOLUTE consonance with the DEGRADED CONCEPTS of Ravan Rajya -
which would APPEAR to be ABSOLUTELY UPRIGHT & RIGHTEOUS to the INVERTED INDOCTRINATED INTELLECTS of those specific souls, who are instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya in the Yagya, more specifically, in the latter part of Confluence Age, to be able to enact their respective roles PRACTICALLY, during the ensuing, corresponding period of Ravan Rajya!

These ASPECTS CANNOT be appreciated/ACCEPTED by the souls who are actually INVOLVED in the ACTIVE process of carrying out such 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya, within the Yagya, in the latter part of Confluence Age!

As an example ONLY - if there are total 900,000 souls INVOLVED with such a PROCESS, then only about 1 per cent, or about 9000 souls may EVER come across these ASPECTS, which they would INSTANTLY treat with SKEPTICISM, SCORN, or even CONTEMPT - after which they would simply IGNORE these ASPECTS.
And out of those, about 9000 souls, only about 900 souls may CONTINUE to consider these ASPECTS for a SOME duration of time, AFTER which they would CONVINCE themselves that there is NO TRUTH in these ASPECTS, since they DO NOT EXPERIENCE any form of HAPPINESS by considering these ASPECTS, and they would FEEL that it is better not to WASTE their time by CONSIDERING these ASPECTS.
And out of those, about 900 souls, ONLY about 90 souls may CONTINUE to consider these ASPECTS for a LONGER duration of time, in GREATER DETAIL, to examine whether there is ANY TRUTH in these ASPECTS, and whether they are REALLY being TAKEN FOR A RIDE with their PARALLEL THEORY, with which they are CURRENTLY INVOLVED, after which they would CONVINCE themselves that these ASPECTS are best left alone, since SAME are not MEANT/DESIGNED/DESTINED for them!
And out of these, about 90 souls, ONLY about 9 souls may CONTINUE to ACTUALLY STUDY these ASPECTS for a MUCH LONGER duration of time, and begin to APPRECIATE the STARK CONTRAST between their PARALLEL THEORY, with which they are CURRENTLY INVOLVED, and these ASPECTS - which are being HIGHLIGHTED, on this forum CONTINUOUSLY! There is a possibility that such souls may EVENTUALLY begin to APPRECIATE these ASPECTS, in their PROPER PERSPECTIVE, and also APPRECIATE the underlying, governing principles within same!

Thus the PROBABILITY of such souls, (who are actually INVOLVED in the ACTIVE process of carrying out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya, within the Yagya, in the latter part of Confluence Age), EVER APPRECIATING these ASPECTS is VERY REMOTE or MINISCULE - only about 0.00001 per cent of the TOTAL!

The REST CANNOT AGREE with or ACCEPT these ASPECTS, owing to their PARTICULAR roles which they have to play within this EWD! Hence, they are NOT EXPECTED to AGREE with, or ACCEPT these ASPECTS, which are meant ONLY for the CONCERNED, SELECTED souls, EXCLUSIVELY!

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 27 Aug 2016

CORRECT! There ESSENTIALLY has to be a PARALLEL THEORY for the sovereigns of the 'Night of The Cycle', EXTRACTED & FORMULATED from the VERY SAME Pure Versions of God in the SMs and AVs,
by CORRUPTING, ADULTERATING, MISINTERPRETING, MISREPRESENTING, MISAPPROPRIATING, REVERSING & INVERTING them, to be in ABSOLUTE consonance with the DEGRADED CONCEPTS of Ravan Rajya -
which would APPEAR to be ABSOLUTELY UPRIGHT & RIGHTEOUS to the INVERTED INDOCTRINATED INTELLECTS of those specific souls, who are instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya in the Yagya, more specifically, in the latter part of Confluence Age, to be able to enact their respective roles PRACTICALLY, during the ensuing, corresponding period of Ravan Rajya!

These ASPECTS CANNOT be appreciated/ACCEPTED by the souls who are actually INVOLVED in the ACTIVE process of carrying out such 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya, within the Yagya, in the latter part of Confluence Age!

As an example ONLY - if there are total 900,000 souls INVOLVED with such a PROCESS, then only about 1 per cent, or about 9000 souls may EVER come across these ASPECTS, which they would INSTANTLY treat with SKEPTICISM, SCORN, or even CONTEMPT - after which they would simply IGNORE these ASPECTS.
And out of those, about 9000 souls, only about 900 souls may CONTINUE to consider these ASPECTS for a SOME duration of time, AFTER which they would CONVINCE themselves that there is NO TRUTH in these ASPECTS, since they DO NOT EXPERIENCE any form of HAPPINESS by considering these ASPECTS, and they would FEEL that it is better not to WASTE their time by CONSIDERING these ASPECTS.
And out of those, about 900 souls, ONLY about 90 souls may CONTINUE to consider these ASPECTS for a LONGER duration of time, in GREATER DETAIL, to examine whether there is ANY TRUTH in these ASPECTS, and whether they are REALLY being TAKEN FOR A RIDE with their PARALLEL THEORY, with which they are CURRENTLY INVOLVED, after which they would CONVINCE themselves that these ASPECTS are best left alone, since SAME are not MEANT/DESIGNED/DESTINED for them!
And out of these, about 90 souls, ONLY about 9 souls may CONTINUE to ACTUALLY STUDY these ASPECTS for a MUCH LONGER duration of time, and begin to APPRECIATE the STARK CONTRAST between their PARALLEL THEORY, with which they are CURRENTLY INVOLVED, and these ASPECTS - which are being HIGHLIGHTED, on this forum CONTINUOUSLY! There is a possibility that such souls may EVENTUALLY begin to APPRECIATE these ASPECTS, in their PROPER PERSPECTIVE, and also APPRECIATE the underlying, governing principles within same!

Thus the PROBABILITY of such souls, (who are actually INVOLVED in the ACTIVE process of carrying out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya, within the Yagya, in the latter part of Confluence Age), EVER APPRECIATING these ASPECTS is VERY REMOTE or MINISCULE - only about 0.00001 per cent of the TOTAL!

The REST CANNOT AGREE with or ACCEPT these ASPECTS, owing to their PARTICULAR roles which they have to play within this EWD! Hence, they are NOT EXPECTED to AGREE with, or ACCEPT these ASPECTS, which are meant ONLY for the CONCERNED, SELECTED souls, EXCLUSIVELY!
No. Baba has said that the knowledge is simple. Everyone can understand it. It is not that there will be different understanding in the knowledge, but there will be difference in the practice of the first and the last lesson of Om Shanti.
OK. I got an answer. It is about a period in between.
But I don't remember Baba saying that Mama now does not have a body and later saying that she got birth in Nepal. I don't think there was some period in between. Since from the start, Baba has said that Mama has taken birth in Nepal. But it was also said that she has taken birth in London and also that she is doing service in Delhi. You have located Mama in Nepal only. Do you have information about Mama in London and Delhi?


= RESPONSE =
CONFUSION is BOUND to PREVAIL when ONE is NOT ABLE to Re-Cognize REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, and STAUNCHLY BELIEVES that the Godly Form or 'Ishwariya Rup' of Ravan or Maya, is ACTUALLY God, or 'ShivBaba'; and UNLESS and UNTIL one LEARNS to Re-Cognize the DIFFERENCE between REAL ShivBaba and APPARENT 'ShivBaba', one would CONTINUE to CONFOUND the Pure Versions of God with the CORRUPTED promulgation of Ravan, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', in Confluence Age, through 'MAHA-MURKH' V D D!

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 27 Aug 2016

CONFUSION is BOUND to PREVAIL when ONE is NOT ABLE to Re-Cognize REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, and STAUNCHLY BELIEVES that the Godly Form or 'Ishwariya Rup' of Ravan or Maya, is ACTUALLY God, or 'ShivBaba'; and UNLESS and UNTIL one LEARNS to Re-Cognize the DIFFERENCE between REAL ShivBaba and APPARENT 'ShivBaba', one would CONTINUE to CONFOUND the Pure Versions of God with the CORRUPTED promulgation of Ravan, MASQUERADING as 'ShivBaba', in Confluence Age, through 'MAHA-MURKH' V D D!
You are not answering.

Knowledge is only a means, introduction to Yaad. In AUM the introduction of the soul is there that I am a creator, destroyer and sustainer. Brahm_A, Vishn_U and M_ahesh.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 27 Aug 2016

sita wrote:When exceptions are too much, it is like a parallel theory*.
I do not believe it is too much. Because knowledge/Murli is like an ocean. When compared to that- such exceptions are very less.

There is a saying- all are equal, but some are more equal than others. So, for some, the standard may be special. Drama is like that.

* - But, by arguing so, you again prove yourself as superior to ShivBaba and act like HK.
No. Baba has said that The Knowledge is simple. Everyone can understand it. It is not that there will be different understanding in The Knowledge, but there will be difference in the practice of the first and the last lesson of Om Shanti.
Again arguing with a baby-intellect. Baba has said both. Baba has said- Yaad is most easy, as well as most difficult. Even for knowledge, Baba has said- knowledge is simple, as well as like an ocean. Baba has also said- knowledge sits only in a pure intellect.
THE MILK OF A LIONESS CAN ONLY BE CONTAINED IN A GOLDEN VESSEL!
Of course, the BASIC essence is simple. That is why- the final/real exam would be of a second.
But, it is very clear that PBK knowledge is highly complicated, than anything else.
But I don't remember Baba saying that Mama now does not have a body and later saying that she got birth in Nepal. I don't think there was some period "in between".
You only quoted the Murli point- (mostly just to misinterpret??). You did not/could not explain anything of it even a bit.

The period "in between"- means - "from 1965 when Mama left till Avyakt BapDada spoke about her later".
In Sakar Murlis from 1965 till 1969- Baba might have said Mama does not have body -( not yet sure- it is only you, who have provided the Murli point, just in English words.)
Later in Avyakt Murlis- Baba might have said/hinted- She took birth in Nepal, etc, etc.
Please be also aware that after leaving one body, there is a period of about 12 days, before the soul can enter the womb of the mother in another body, and there is a period of about 4 months, before the soul can actually take birth. The concerned Version could have been spoken during this interim period, and to confirm same, the original date of the Version is required.
Since from the start, Baba has said that Mama has taken birth in Nepal. But it was also said that she has taken birth in London and also that she is doing service in Delhi. You have located Mama in Nepal only. Do you have information about Mama in London and Delhi?
The so called Gyani tu atma should be able to not only explain, but also prove, is it not? Or is the PBK churning just putting questions and replying just in a twisted way, that too just vague ones?

Well, you must definitely be aware that your bodily guru has given the unlimited meanings for -
Nepal ('nayi pal-na' - where NEW sustenance takes place),
London ('len-den' - where there is exchange of NEW Knowledge) and
Delhi ('dil li' - where the heart is accepted or taken with Pure Love).

If you are referring to the corporeal body or birth, in a limited sense, your information regarding her taking birth in London (PLEASE SPECIFY the SOURCE of this information), is still possible if her parents went there for about a month for special delivery of the child; and your information regarding her doing service in Delhi (PLEASE SPECIFY the SOURCE of this information), is also still possible if she accompanied her parents on a short trip to Delhi.

As far as spiritual birth is concerned, in an unlimited sense, she has taken a new spiritual birth in the
Loving Lap of BapDada, where NEW powerful spiritual sustenance takes place (Nepal - 'nayi pal-na'), and where there is unlimited exchange of the Gems of Knowledge (London - 'len-den'); and she is involved in doing unlimited spiritual service, where her heart is wholeheartedly accepted with the Purest Divine Love by BapDada (Delhi - 'dil li').

Please quote the Murli points, and prove yourself, dear.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 28 Aug 2016

sita wrote:Knowledge is only a means, introduction to Yaad. In AUM the introduction of the soul is there that I am a creator, destroyer and sustainer. Brahm_A, Vishn_U and M_ahesh.
Just by highlighting few alphabets (that too not in order or sequence - two from the end, and one from the beginning) in some words, does not mean that - you have given proof. It is just like 'kanras'.

Now, further to your query on the Murli- "Baba ke kitney righteous bachche hain? Brahma so Vishnu bantaa hai. Baaki rahaa Shankar. Toh doh huye na. Kumarkaa, tum Shankar ko kyon chodtee ho? = How many righteous children does Baba have? Brahma becomes Vishnu. The remaining is Shankar. So, two, is it not? Kumarka, why do you leave Shankar". - (you may correct or provide Hindi words if you like/have). You may also provide the date if you have/like.
I am yet to know fully and in what context Baba has said this*. The complete Murli is required.

BTW- you can try to prove- how does the above Murli point fit to Mr. Dixit?

Note that-
1)This Murli point is a Sakar Murli point.
2)Mr. Dixit had not yet come (back) to BKWSU.
3)And- in PBK view- their Shankar/Sevakram left Yagya by himself in 1942, went into stomach of python; and was playing role of lustful thorn, till almost 1969, in his next birth (as Mr Dixit).

So- honestly- try to address these issues, BY ACTUALLY CONSULTING -Virendra Dev Dixit, instead of speaking/defending just lies and/or in double standard way, BY YOURSELF!
Such a response would have some value.

* - At present, I believe BKs do not have enough information of Mama, as well as have not given enough importance/weightage to her. If asked- Why?, I can just say- even Avyakt Murlis have not given her enough importance. Again if asked- Why? I believe - for service activities- it is enough if we use the Chariot (which is only one) and the existing top hands (Dadis, Didis, etc).
---- But, within BK circles- it would have been better if her name had been given more/enough importance. I do not know why BK leadership has not given enough importance to her within BK circles.
---But- Drama balances itself. In Bhaktimarg/worship, temples of Jagadamba/Prajamata are much more than Jagatpita/Prajapita.
---But- when it comes to the question- has one used his intellect righteously, then such issues come into significance/focus.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 28 Aug 2016

http://www.PBKs.info/Website%20written% ... khand2.pdf

pg.195 - older edition, pg.198 newer edition


= RESPONSE =

ALL TYPES of the above CRAFTY INITIATIVES of Ravan or Maya, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, 'MAHA-MURKH' -Virendra Dev Dixit, have already been THOROUGHLY ANALYSED, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT, WHATSOEVER, that such initiatives of Ravan or Maya, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, 'MAHA-MURKH' -Virendra Dev Dixit, are SOLELY SCHEMED & DESIGNED to continue MISINTERPRETING, MISREPRESENTING & MISAPPROPRIATING the Pure Versions of God, to be in ACCURATE consonance with the PERVERTED & DISTORTED CONCEPTS of 'Tamopradhan Bhakti' or DEGRADED DEVOTION of the outer World, to be instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap & Ravan Rajya, more specifically, in the latter part of Confluence Age!

For better comprehension of the REAL Trimurti, refer to link below -
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1217&p=46831&hilit=Kumarka#p46831

sita
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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 29 Aug 2016

ALL TYPES of the above CRAFTY INITIATIVES of Ravan or Maya, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, 'MAHA-MURKH' -Virendra Dev Dixit, have already been THOROUGHLY ANALYSED, and there is ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT, WHATSOEVER, that such initiatives of Ravan or Maya, through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, 'MAHA-MURKH' -Virendra Dev Dixit, are SOLELY SCHEMED & DESIGNED to continue MISINTERPRETING, MISREPRESENTING & MISAPPROPRIATING the Pure Versions of God, to be in ACCURATE consonance with the PERVERTED & DISTORTED CONCEPTS of 'Tamopradhan Bhakti' or DEGRADED DEVOTION of the outer World, to be instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap & Ravan Rajya, more specifically, in the latter part of Confluence Age!

For better comprehension of the REAL Trimurti, refer to link below -
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1217&p=46831&hilit=Kumarka#p46831
Yes, I remember that you had explained that the role of Shankar, is that Mama also plays a part and the two righteous children are Mama and Baba. It would be right to say that Mama plays part in establishment also, along with Brahma, and certainly in Vishnu which is the combined form of Lakshmi and Narayan. In the Murli also it is said that Mama will continue to sustain the Yagya till the end. And certainly it is said that it is the shaktis that play the practical role of destruction and not Shankar, that is why if we put Mama in place of Shankar it would become easy to explain. But does that mean that Mama is Shankar. When it is said that Shaktis play part of destruction and not Shankar it implies shakti is different and Shankar is different. You said Brahma Baba is that Shankar who inspires destruction. And it cannot be denied. Each soul plays part of Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar to some extent. What we claim is that Brahma Baba does not play the number one part of Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar, and the Mama that is to be placed on the place of Shankar is not Om Radhe Mama.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 29 Aug 2016

Dear soul,
Mama is continuing to sustain Yagya/service through Advance Party. Service is not completed. It is going on.

First you try to explain the Murli point, how it fits for Mr. Dixit.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 29 Aug 2016

= BRIEF RESPONSE IS BEING PROVIDED IN RED LETTERING, HERE ITSELF =
"Vishnu and Shankar may also become body-conscious (sometimes)." [Mu. 17-12-72]

'Vishnu' represents the COMBINED PRACTICAL form of the VERY FIRST PAIR of Lakshmi and Narayan, as MAHA-LAKSHMI, in the beginning of G A. BOTH these souls would develop body-consciousness with the passage of time, EVEN in their OWN LIFE-SPAN, of their VERY FIRST BIRTHS in G A; and be sometimes body-conscious in Confluence Age, AS WELL, particularly when they are in their impure corporeal bodies, instrumental to sustain the emerging Brahmin Children, in 'Sakar'.

Shankar represents the COMPOSITE-PERSONALITY COMPLEX ROLE, PRIMARILY COMPRISING of the COMBINED SPIRITUAL ENERGIES of THREE HIGHEST SOULS within this EWD - Supreme Soul Shiva, Brahma Baba and Saraswati Mama. The TWO embodied ELEMENTS of this COMPOSITE-PERSONALITY can also manifest body-consciousness, particularly when they are in their impure corporeal bodies, when the COMPOSITE role of Shankar is also SIMULTANEOUSLY enacted, on a DIFFERENT LEVEL, in Confluence Age.


If Shankar is Avyakt Brahma (with the help of Mama) and is a pure angel and has finished, once and for all times body-consciousness, how could he become body-conscious. In fact subtle body is also form of body-consciousness. But then why is it said about Vishnu? This point is valid if the three murtis are there in corporeal form.

The TWO embodied ELEMENTS of the COMPOSITE-PERSONALITY of Shankar can also manifest body-consciousness, particularly when they are in their impure corporeal bodies, when the COMPOSITE role of Shankar is also SIMULTANEOUSLY enacted, on a DIFFERENT LEVEL, in Confluence Age.
Regarding Vishnu - see above. Regarding Trimurti - see link below.


In the Murlis the three murtis are said in such a way that it refers to different personalities.

Refer post in link - viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=50967&hilit=Shankar#p50967

Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar will also complete their roles and return. [Mu. 22-5-71 Pg-2]

Already explained above.

It is also said that Brahma Vishnu and Shankar are born together. Even if referred to one or two persons, the stage or role of Brahma Vishnu and Shankar does not take place at the same time. And Mama and Baba are also not born at the same time.

As SOON AS Shiva takes birth, B V S, and ALL the Brahmin Children ALSO SIMULTANEOUSLY take birth, that is why the BIRTH-DAY of the Father and the Children is EXACTLY the SAME! However, this birth takes place in the INTELLECTUAL WOMB of souls, when Shiva sows the spiritual seeds in their intellects through spiritual vibrations INSTANTANEOUSLY (equivalent to the entry of a soul inside the womb of the mother - the concerned souls being STILL UNAWARE of this occurrence since they are STILL in a 'SLEEP' stage - INTELLECTUAL WOMB PERIOD), and when they ACTUALLY come to the Knowledge, at the appropriate time, as per their governing roles, this is equivalent to the child being actually born and separated from the mother, etc., etc., etc.

"Actually, Brahma becomes Vishnu. Shankar is called Dev-Dev-Mahadev because Shankar is next to Shiva. Brahma and Vishnu take rebirth, but Shankar doesn't. ShivBaba is subtle. Similarly Shankar is also subtle." [Mu 29-9-77]

Already explained above. Brahma Baba, BOTH, as REAL 'Prajapita', and part and parcel of REAL 'Shankar', is NEXT to Shiva. The term 'Dev-Dev-Mahadev', ACTUALLY refers to Shiva, and NOT to Shankar. The ACTUAL meaning of 'Dev-Dev-Mahadev', is NOT 'HIGHEST AMONG ALL DEITIES', but 'HIGHER THAN ANY DEITY'!
The INCORPOREAL ELEMENT of the COMPOSITE-PERSONALITY of Shankar, who is Shiva, DOES NOT take re-birth. The INCORPOREAL ELEMENT of the COMPOSITE-PERSONALITY of Shankar, who is Shiva, is ALSO subtle.


In the advanced knowledge taking birth and dying is taken in an unlimited meaning. But how would the above point where it is said that Shankar does not get rebirth, refer to Brahma Baba and Mama when they do get rebirth?

Already explained above. If, according to advanced knowledge, the so-called 'unlimited' meaning (which is ACTUALLY a CORRUPTED meaning) means 'having faith and losing faith', then the soul of -Virendra Dev Dixit CLEARLY CANNOT represent Shankar, SINCE HE LOST FAITH, and LEFT THE Yagya, IN THE BEGINNING - IN ADDITION to LEAVING HIS CORPOREAL BODY, AS WELL!

"His soul's name is Shiva. The whole world knows this. All these remaining names are given to the bodies. ShivBaba is called just Shiva. Only His body is not visible. Shankar's name is also based upon his body. Soul is just a soul. There is a soul in him also. But names are given to the bodies, like Vishnu and Shankar. Nobody tells, "O soul! Come here"." [ Mu.23.3.76, Pg.1]

Here it is said that the name Shankar is based on the body. Even if you say that it refers to a subtle body, his name is already Brahma. For one body we have one name.

For one body we can have one name, when a SPECIFIC role is being played; and for the SAME body we can have ANOTHER name, WHEN ANOTHER SPECIFIC role is being enacted. Like a DOUBLE ROLE being played in the movies, with TWO DIFFERENT NAMES, by the SAME individual.
In the case of Brahma, the SOUL is the SAME, but the STRUCTURE of the SAME body changes - from CORPOREAL to SUBTLE.
The INCORPOREAL ELEMENT of the COMPOSITE-PERSONALITY of Shankar, who is Shiva, is the Supreme Soul, and in this PARTICULAR sense Shankar can also be considered to have a soul!



= SUMMARY of RESPONSE =
REAL Shankar is a COMPOSITE-PERSONALITY COMPLEX ROLE, PRIMARILY COMPRISING of the COMBINED SPIRITUAL ENERGIES of THREE HIGHEST SOULS within this EWD - Supreme Soul Shiva, Brahma Baba and Saraswati Mama. Hence REAL Shankar CANNOT be CONSIDERED to be ANY ONE of them, in TOTAL ISOLATION - PARTICULARLY the TWO embodied souls of Brahma Baba and Saraswati Mama. In order to comprehend these subtlest aspects, with any degree of meaningful CLARITY, ONE has to ESSENTIALLY develop one's OWN subtle/seed stage of awareness, and ACTUALLY EXPERIENCE same - since it is IMPOSSIBLE to EXPLAIN same in words - PARTICULARLY when concerned souls DO NOT have the POTENTIAL to comprehend such aspects, UNLESS and UNTIL they develop their OWN subtle/seed stage of awareness, and EXPERIENCE same, and VERIFY same for THEMSELVES.

It is considered that it would be a PURE WASTE of TIME for your good self, AS WELL AS, for any other soul, to continue this discussion, WITHOUT FIRST developing the required subtle/seed stage of consciousness.

Interested viewers may also review the following posts, regarding Shankar, in following links, below -
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51694&hilit=Shankar#p51694
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51638&hilit=Shankar#p51638
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51327&hilit=Shankar#p51327
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51305&hilit=Shankar#p51305
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=50967&hilit=Shankar#p50967

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&hilit=Shankar ... 150#p51762

mbbhat
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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 03 Sep 2016

sita wrote:"Vishnu and Shankar may also become body-conscious (sometimes)." [Mu. 17-12-72]

If Shankar is Avyakt Brahma (with the help of Mama) and is a pure angel and has finished, once and for all times body-consciousness, how could he become body-conscious. In fact subtle body is also form of body-consciousness. But then why is it said about Vishnu? This point is valid if the three murtis are there in corporeal form.
No surprise in this Murli point.
1)The Murli point says- "Shankar or Vishnu can become body consciousness".
It implies Shankar/Mama at present has corporeal body. And- even Vishnu in heaven will have corporeal body, so obviously can have body consciousness to a very small extent.
THAT IS WHY EVEN Vishnu DEGRADES. Else how can he degrade???. SO, BABA WOULD HAVE SAID SO, IN THAT SPECIFIC CONTEXT.

2)Now- why the same is NOT said for Brahma? It is for two reasons.
---The subtle Brahma cannot have body consciousness. Because he has no corporeal body AT ALL!
But- of course, even he too can have - even to a MUCH smaller extent. And- Baba has also said- no one can get 100 per cent marks- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... rks#p12500
----The other reason is- Corporeal Brahma will have/had at least some body-consciousness, since he is in the effort-making stage. That is well-known, need not be said.

3)f "in PBK view"- BVS refer to HIGHLY/CONSIDERABLE impure personalities (effort-making-stage), why should Baba say so?? (It is obvious that all impure personalities will have body-consciousness.) You yourself have added the word- "sometimes" in the bracket, but TOTALLY failed both to understand it, is it not?
4)In PBK view- all their three personalities are in highly body-conscious stage! Their Brahma/Jagadamba is in Kaliyugee vaishyaalaya, and their Vishnu/Vedanti is yet to recognize their ShivBaba, and their Shankar is still being controlled by ghost!

5)Moreover- "in PBK view"- when one becomes pure, all become pure. Then how does that fit here?

6)So- think sensibly- The Murli point says- "CAN BECOME body-consciousness". It does not say- "THEY HAVE body consciousness". [This clearly implies- ShivBaba is speaking about pure souls, not impure or effort-making personalities].
It is also said that Brahma Vishnu and Shankar are born together. Even if referred to one or two persons, the stage or role of Brahma Vishnu and Shankar does not take place at the same time. And Mama and Baba are also not born at the same time.
7) See Post No. 26- mu point No. 01 in the link below- where Baba says- BVS do not exist!*
----So- how do PBKs explain this- "they do not exist? "

8)In PBK view- BVS and Krishna too, took birth together - FOUR, NOT THREE! -How do PBKs explain this?

9) Baba has also said- "when I come, BVS would be with me". How? Is that possible? That is not possible. In fact, when Baba comes he has (a sketch/plan of) BVS with him. - See post No. 26 - from mu point No. 5.
http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... s&start=20

10) "In PBK view"- when ShivBaba comes BVS WOULD NOT BE with him. BVS got created only LATER!- after descending to physical world! Again a failure.
In the Murlis the three murtis are said in such a way that it refers to different personalities.
Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar will also complete their roles and return. [Mu. 22-5-71 Pg-2]
11) It can mean souls of BVS will complete their roles and return.
Three different personalities, need not mean three different souls. It can be two as well. Baba sometimes distinguishes between B and V as different, but the souls are same.
---Again Baba differentiates between corporeal and subtle Brahma, but the souls are one and the same.

12) See- all of your arguments are just pointing errors in others. So far you could not explain your own claims. As can be seen here. There are five different personalities, and total ambiguity in PBK concept of Trimurti! - put here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&start=135

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by mbbhat » 19 Sep 2016

sita wrote:In the scriptures Adidev is considered to be Shankar.
Not sure about that. But, it is not a surprise, as Shankar is a subtle deity, SAME as subtle Brahma, or Brahma Baba in his subtle body, AFTER 1969.
sita wrote:When Brahma comes from the navel of Vishnu, when they quarrel with Vishnu about who has come first they find out that Shankar has been there before them.
Let us see how PBKs explain this - what they themselves claim, or would like to believe in. When do PBKs believe birth of B and V occurred, and quarrel took place, in the Conf Age - or ???

PBKs also claim birth of BVS and Krishna- all 4 happened together.

In scriptures, almost all tyhe deities have been defamed.

So- dear soul, please prove/clarify yourself one by one, instead of beating around the bush, as usual.

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Re: Churning of soul Brother 'sita'

Post by sita » 20 Sep 2016

It is said that Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are born together. They are three and it is about the Confluence Age. If Vishnu was about the Golden Age, he could not possibly be there along with Brahma and Shankar.

In the Confluence Age there will be one soul who will transform from a human to deity first. In the Confluence Age, first souls become brahmins. Then these brahmins become deities, but there is the stage of an angel in between. Shankar is angel. Brahma is human, he belongs to the old world. The age of Brahma finishes in the land of death. And Vishnu is a deity, he belongs to the new world. It is Shankar who is considered the greatest deity who does not belong to the old world, but is there before the new world.

All the three souls belong to the Confluence Age, but the speed of their effort is different. Shankar is the subtlest, so the fastest. The Land of Vishnu is the symbol of pure Bharat. Deity status is lower than that of the Confluence Age. And third comes Brahma that is incomplete stage. We can compare the Trimurti to the arrows of the clock. It is only when the big, slowest arrow strikes that we count the hour, but it is the arrow of the seconds that strikes first for the hour to be complete, followed by the minute arrow.


= RESPONSE =

As clarified earlier B, V & S are Spiritually born, SIMULTANEOUSLY, with the INCARNATION of REAL ShivBaba, Shiva or God, on His entry into the corporeal body of Brahma Baba. BOTH of them, COMBINED as BapDada, enact the three roles Spiritually, right from the very beginning, supported by the soul of Saraswati Mama as well.

In the Confluence Age, the soul of Brahma Baba transforms from a human to Spiritual deity (angel), in 1969. In the Confluence Age, first souls become Brahmins - Brahma Baba was the very FIRST Brahmin, having taken spiritual birth from Shiva through his OWN Lotus Mouth. Then these Brahmins become deities, but there is the stage of an angel in between - Brahma Baba became an angel in 1969. Shankar is angel - role enacted by Brahma Baba, after 1969, when he becomes an angel, ALONG WITH ShivBaba and Mama. Brahma is human, he belongs to the old world - when he is in his corporeal body, UNTIL 1969. The age of Brahma finishes in the land of death - when Brahma Baba becomes 'karmateet' and leaves his corporeal body in 1969. And Vishnu is a deity, he belongs to the new world - the role practically played by the very same soul of Brahma Baba, when he takes PURE birth in G A, along with Saraswati Mama, when she takes PURE birth in G A. It is Shankar who is considered the greatest deity who does not belong to the old world, but is there before the new world - Brahma Baba DOES NOT belong to the OLD WORLD after 1969, and is there to OVERSEE the task of TRANSFORMATION, BEFORE the New World commences.

All the three ROLES of God, as B, V & S, are enacted in the Confluence Age, but the speed of EACH ROLE is different. The ROLE of Shankar is the subtlest, so the fastest - which is why Brahma Baba has to be in a subtle body in order to carry out the SUBTLEST task of World TRANSFORMATION at the fastest possible pace, which would NOT have been possible for any embodied soul, if such embodied soul would STILL be restricted by the CONSTRAINTS of the physical body of his OWN. The Land of Vishnu is the symbol of pure Bharat. Deity status is lower than that of the Confluence Age. The status of Brahma Baba, as Shri Krishna or Shri Narayan in G A, is considered to be LOWER than his VERY OWN STATUS in Confluence Age, when he is instrumental to enact the THREE ROLES of B, V & S, ALONG WITH ShivBaba and Saraswati Mama. Brahma Baba is in the incomplete stage, when he is in his corporeal body, UNTIL 1969!

View following points for better understanding of the status of Brahma Baba in Confluence Age and in G A -

"When Krishna (of G A) will come, THEN (AFTER a certain period) there will not remain any dirty soul (WHEN he ascends the Throne). Till then (till Krishna of G A comes) you will keep coming and going. The parents, etc., to receive Krishna should be present before-hand, is it not? THEN (when he ascends the Throne) all good souls will remain. All others (dirty souls in impure bodies) will leave. Then only will it be called a (REAL) Heaven. You will remain to receive Krishna (in your IMPURE bodies). Although your births takes place through dirt (impure bodies), means it is Ravana's Kingdom, is it not? One cannot have a pure birth (BEFORE Shri Krishna of G A comes). Only Krishna (of G A) will FIRSTLY take a flower-like (Pure) birth. [4-10-69]

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51775&hilit=impure#p51775
BKWSU SM, Revised 30.08.2016 wrote: कृष्ण का कितना नाम गाया जाता है। उनके बाप का नाम ही नहीं, उनका बाप कहाँ है। जरूर राजा का बच्चा होगा ना। वहाँ, बड़े राजा के घर में जन्म होता है। परन्तु वह पतित राजा होने के कारण उनका नाम थोड़ेही होगा। कृष्ण जब है तब थोड़े पतित भी रहते हैं। जब वह बिल्कुल खलास हो जाते हैं तब वह गद्दी पर बैठते हैं, अपना राज्य ले लेते हैं, तब ही उनका संवत शुरू होता है। लक्ष्मी-नारायण से संवत शुरू होता है।

The name of Krishna is praised so much. There is no mention of his father's name, where is his father? He (Krishna) would definitely be the son of a king. There, his birth takes place in the house of a great king. However, BECAUSE THAT KING IS IMPURE, he is not renowned. When Krishna is there, a few impure ones remain. When they (impure ones) completely leave, then he sits on the throne and claims his Kingdom, only after which his era begins. The era begins with Lakshmi & Narayan.
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51690&hilit=impure#p51690
BKWSU SM, Revised 09.08.2016 wrote: बच्चा तो जन्म से ही महात्मा है। बच्चों को तो पवित्र फूल कहा जाता है। नम्बरवन फूल है श्रीकृष्ण। स्वर्ग नई दुनिया का पहला प्रिन्स। जन्म लिया तो कहेंगे फर्स्ट प्रिन्स।

A Child is a great soul, right from birth. Children are said to be pure flowers. The NUMBER ONE Flower is Shri Krishna. He is the first prince of Heaven, the New World. As soon as he takes birth, he is called the FIRST Prince.
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&start=135#p51582
BKWSU SM, Revised 14.07.2016 wrote: बाबा का तो अनुभवी रथ है ना। तुम बच्चे अब समझ रहे हो - आत्मायें और परमात्मा अलग रहे बहुकाल... तुम जो पहले अलग हुए हो, फिर तुम ही आकर पहले मिलते हो। सतयुग का फर्स्ट प्रिन्स है श्रीकृष्ण। कृष्ण का बाप भी तो होगा ना। कृष्ण के माँ-बाप का इतना कुछ दिखाते नहीं हैं। सिर्फ दिखाते हैं माथे पर रखकर नदी से उस पार ले गया। राजाई आदि कुछ नहीं दिखाई है। उनके बाप की महिमा क्यों नहीं है? अभी तुम जानते हो इस समय कृष्ण की आत्मा ने अच्छी रीति पढ़ाई पढ़ी है। जिस कारण माँ-बाप से भी ऊंच पद पाया है। तुम समझते हो हम श्रीकृष्ण की राजधानी में थे, स्वर्ग में तो थे ना।

The Chariot of Baba is EXPERIENCED. You Children NOW understand, that souls remained separated from the Supreme Soul for a long period ... ONLY You, who got separated FIRST, THEN come and Meet FIRST. Shri Krishna is the FIRST PRINCE of the Golden Age (‘Satyug’). Krishna would also have a father, is it not? They have not shown very much about Krishna’s parents. They have just shown that he was placed on the head and carried across the river. They have not shown a kingdom, etc. Why is there NO PRAISE of his father? You NOW understand that the soul of Krishna STUDIED this study VERY WELL, at THIS TIME, and due to THIS REASON, he RECEIVED a STATUS, EVEN HIGHER THAN THAT of his PARENTS. You understand that You were in the Kingdom of Shri Krishna, You were in Heaven.
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&p=51632&hilit=impure#p51632
BKWSU SM, Revised 18.07.2016 wrote: यह शरीर तो इनका है ना। मैं सिर्फ इनमें आकर प्रवेश करता हूँ। मुख ही काम में लाता हूँ - तुम बच्चों को पतित से पावन बनाने। गऊ मुख भी कहते हैं ना। बरोबर ग्ऊ भी है। तुम जानते हो इनसे ही तुम बच्चों को एडाप्ट करते हैं। यह मात-पिता, दोनों हैं।

THIS body is his. I simply come and enter him. I just use his Mouth in order to make You Children pure from impure. They speak of the ‘Mouth of the Cow’ (‘gaumukh’). There really is a ‘Cow’. You know that I adopt You Children ONLY through THIS ONE. THIS ONE is BOTH, the Mother AND Father.
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&start=165#p51858
BKWSU SM, Revised 17.09.2016 wrote: माला में ऊपर हूँ मैंफिर युगल है ब्रह्मा-सरस्वती। वही सतयुग के महाराजा-महारानी बनते हैं। ... मैं भारत को इन ब्रह्मा-सरस्वती और ब्राह्मणों द्वारा स्वर्ग बनाता हूँ। ... अब बाप आकर समझदार बनाते हैं। यह लक्ष्मी-नारायण समझदार विश्व के मालिक थे ना?

I am at the top of the rosary, and then there is the couple, Brahma & Saraswati. They THEMSELVES become the Emperor & Empress of the Golden Age. ... I make Bharat into Heaven through THESE Brahma-Saraswati & Brahmins. ... The Father NOW comes and makes You sensible. THESE Lakshmi & Narayan were SENSIBLE Masters of the World, is it not?
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&start=150#p51730
BKWSU SM, Revised 24.08.2016 wrote: वह लौकिक वह पारलौकिक और यह है संगमयुगी अलौकिक बाप। लौकिक बाप तो सतयुग से लेकर होते आये हैं। पारलौकिक बाप को वहाँ कोई याद नहीं करते, वहाँ होता ही है एक बाप। हे भगवान, हे परमात्मा कहकर याद नहीं करते हैं, फिर द्वापर में जब भक्ति मार्ग शुरू होता है तो बाप दो होते हैं। संगम पर हैं 3 बाप। प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा भी अभी मिलता है, अभी तुम उनके बने हो। जानते हो यह अलौकिक बाप है। अभी तुम इन बातों को अच्छी रीति जानते हो और याद करते हो।

That one is a worldly (‘lokik’) father, the other One is the (‘Parlokik’) Father from beyond, and THIS is Subtle (‘Alokik’) Father of the Confluence Age. You have had worldly fathers from the beginning of Golden Age. No one remembers the Father from beyond this world THERE, where there is only ONE father. No one there remembers God or says: 'Oh God'! 'Oh Supreme Soul'! Then, when the 'Path of Devotion' begins in the Copper Age, there are TWO fathers, and at the Confluence Age there are THREE fathers. You meet Prajapita Brahma AT THIS TIME. You NOW belong to him. You know that THIS is your Subtle (‘Alokik’) Father. You NOW understand and remember these aspects VERY WELL.
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2602&start=150#p51835
BKWSU SM, Revised 10.09.2016 wrote: बाप ने समझाया है, नम्बरवन ही लास्ट नम्बर में तमोप्रधान बनते हैं। मैं खुद कहता हूँ कि, मैं बहुत जन्मों के अन्त में साधारण तन में प्रवेश करता हूँ। जिसने पूरे 84 जन्म लिए हैं, वह तो जरूर पतित होगा - पावन तो हो नहीं सकता। बाप खुद कहते हैं, पहले नम्बर में है श्रीकृष्ण - फर्स्ट प्रिन्स। श्री नारायण तो बाद में बनता है, जब बड़ा होता है - वह भी 20-25 वर्ष कम हो जाते हैं। उनके भी पूरे 84 जन्म नहीं कहेंगे। नम्बरवन है श्रीकृष्ण। भल वही फिर स्वयंवर बाद नारायण बनते हैं। परन्तु हिसाब तो बच्चों को करना है ना। पूरे 84 जन्म, 5 हजार वर्ष श्रीकृष्ण के ही कहेंगे। तो बाप बैठ समझाते हैं, मैं कल्प-कल्प उसी ही तन में आता हूँ, जिसका आदि से लेकर अन्त तक पार्ट है। दूसरे कोई में आ नहीं सकता हूँ। हिसाब है ना। ब्रह्मा ही पहला नम्बर ठहरामैं और कोई में आ कैसे सकता? तुमसे बहुत लोग पूछते हैं, सिर्फ एक ही ब्रह्मा में क्यों आते हैं? परन्तु यह हिसाब है ना। यह समझने की बातें हैं। गाया भी हुआ है ब्रह्मा द्वारा स्थापना करते हैं। विष्णु वा शंकर द्वारा स्थापना नहीं करते। यह और कोई का काम नहीं है। मनुष्य रचता और रचना को नहीं जानते हैं। यह भी ड्रामा में नूँध है। ...
जिनके 84 जन्म पूरे हुए हैं वही पहले नम्बर में लक्ष्मी-नारायण बनेंगे। यह सब राज बाप ही बैठ समझाते हैं।

The Father has explained that the NUMBER ONE soul, then becomes ‘tamopradhan’, at the end. I, Myself, tell You that I enter an ORDINARY BODY, at the END of his MANY births. He has taken the FULL 84 births and so he would definitely be impure - he cannot be pure. The Father Himself says: Shri Krishna is the NUMBER ONE - first Prince. He becomes Shri Narayan later on, when he grows up - when 20 to 25 years become less (than his full age). FULL 84 births cannot be said for him (Shri Narayan) too. Shri Krishna is NUMBER ONE, although he HIMSELF then becomes Narayan, after his marriage. However, Children have to keep an account. Only Shri Krishna is said to take the FULL 84 births, in 5000 years. The Father sits and explains: Every cycle, I ONLY enter the body of THAT ONE, who has a part from the beginning to the end. I CANNOT ENTER ANYONE ELSE's BODY. There is this account. ONLY BRAHMA is NUMBER ONE. How can I enter anyone else's body? Many people ask you: Why does God come in the body of ONLY ONE Brahma? However, there is this account, is it not? These matters have to be understood. It is remembered that establishment is carried out through Brahma. Establishment is NOT carried out through Vishnu or Shankar. This is not anyone else’s task. People neither know the Creator nor the creation, and this too is fixed in the Drama. ...
ONLY those who take COMPLETE 84 births will become the NUMBER ONE Lakshmi & Narayan. ONLY the Father sits and explains ALL of these secrets.
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BKWSU SM, Revised 14.06.2016 wrote: यह तो बच्चों को जरूर निश्चय होगा कि हमारा पारलौकिक बाप है – परमपिता परमात्मा शिव, और यह (ब्रह्मा) सब बच्चों का अलौकिक बाप है, इनको ही प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा कहेंगे। इतने बच्चे और किसको होते हैं क्या, सिवाए प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा के। पहले नहीं थे, जबकि बेहद के बाप ने इसमें प्रवेश किया है, तो यह हो गया दादा। यह दादा खुद कहते हैं कि तुमको पारलौकिक बाप की प्रापर्टी मिलती है। पोत्रे हमेशा दादे के वारिस होते हैं। उनका बुद्धियोग दादे में जाता है, क्योंकि दादे की प्रापर्टी का हक मिलना है। जैसे राजाओं के पास जो बच्चे जन्म लेते रहेंगे, ऐसे ही कहेंगे बड़ों की प्रापर्टी है। बड़ों की प्रापर्टी पर उन्हों का हक है ही। तुम बच्चे जानते हो कि हम बेहद के बाप द्वारा बड़े ते बड़ी प्रापर्टी स्वर्ग की बादशाही ले रहे हैं। हमको वह बाप पढ़ा रहे हैं। तुम अब सम्मुख बैठे हो। सम्मुख का नशा भी नम्बरवार पुरूषार्थ अनुसार रहता है। कोई की दिल में तो बड़ा लव रहता है। हम ऊंच ते ऊंच भगवान के आकर इस साकार मात-पिता द्वारा वारिस बनते हैं

You Children would DEFINITELY have the faith that OUR ‘Parlokik’ Father (‘from beyond this world’) is the Supreme Father Supreme Soul, Shiva; and that THIS ONE (Brahma) is the Subtle (‘Alokik’) Father of ALL the Children. ONLY he is called Prajapita Brahma. Could anyone, EXCEPT Prajapita Brahma, have so many Children? He did not have them before. It was when the UNLIMITED Father ENTERED him that he became 'Dada'. THIS Dada himself says: You receive the property of the ‘Parlokik’ Father (‘from beyond this world’). Grandchildren are always heirs of their grandfather. The Yoga of their intellects goes to their grandfather because they would receive the right to the grandfather’s property. Just as, when a child is born to a king, he would be told that that is the property of his elders. They definitely have a right to the property of their elders. You Children understand that you are claiming the greatest property of all - the Sovereignty of Heaven - from the UNLIMITED Father. That Father is TEACHING US. You are now sitting PERSONALLY IN FRONT. The intoxication of sitting PERSONALLY IN FRONT is experienced, number-wise, according to your efforts. Some have a lot of Love in their hearts of becoming heirs of God, the Highest on High, through THIS corporeal Mother and Father.

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