SHIV BABAKE RSTH

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Anjaneya
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SHIV BABAKE RSTH

Post by Anjaneya » 05 Feb 2017

The pbk knowledge says, "Gulzar Dadi ke than me shiv baba nahi aathe hei, balki Brahma pravesh karke avyaktavani sunathe hei, dhusre jagahme apoorna brahma shankarme pravesh kar Krishnake part baza rahe hei."

Yahan gyarayeese sochiye mai prashna nahi puchtha. Lekin aisa part bananeka adhar kya hei? Eh tho sirf suni sunaye bath hei. Eh practical me dhek rahe hei.

Guljar Dadi Kumari hei pavitra kumari ke shareerme shiv pravesh karneka kaida nahi hei. Lekin 1969 me Virendra Dev Dixit kumar me kaisa praveshtha ho saktha hei?

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trueshaiv
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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by trueshaiv » 05 Feb 2017

Om Shanti,

The Murli point does say "Pavitra Kanya ke tan mein aavein, parantu kaayda nahi hai. Baap so fir kumari par kaise sawari karenge"

Nowhere in Murli its mentioned that Shivbaap cannot choose a kumar(male corporeal form) as his medium. Also there's another Murli point that says: "main patit se patit kaante mein aata hun". As per Baba's clarification, here the term "kaante" in vastly knowledge refers to kaam ka kaanta or lust. In the Iron age it can be easily determined that the male forms in major are inclined towards this particular vice, lust which explains the points itself.

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by mbbhat » 06 Feb 2017


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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by trueshaiv » 06 Feb 2017

The other Murli points which prove that Supreme Soul does not enter Gulzar Dadi are as follows:

1.) "Aise nahi ki BapDada ka aawahan kar rahein hain. Nahi, baba ka awahan to kar hi nahi sakte hain. Baba ko to aap hi aana hai"(Mu. 12/04/71 begining and Mu. 12/4/76 begining)

If you tally this point with actually what happens at Mount Abu, One can easily determine that BKs over there sit in remembrance of Brahma baba and then dates are fixed by them so that all parties from all over India and different parts can reach there and meet baba in Gulzar Dadi. Therefore the soul of Shivbaap cannot be called on a date as per anyone's will. He's the Supreme Soul and he comes and gives knowledge by himself. Also, in the begining of Yagya when shivbaap spoke through Brahma baba's Chariot, there was no change in his facial expressions or actions, which otherwise happens in case of Gulzar Dadi.

2.)"Main sookshmvatanvasi Brahma devta mein pravesh nahi karta hun. Mujhe to yahan patit ko pawan banana hai. Mere dwara hi wo sookshmwatanvasi brahma pawan bana hai"(Mu. 04/11/65 Pg.1 mid-begining)

Also there's another belief among BKs that Shiv Supreme Soul enters Sookshmasharir of brahma baba and then they enter in combined form in Gulzar Dadi. But the Murli point says something different.

3.) "Baba to badi sabhao mein nahi baith samjhavenge" (Mu. 04/09/73 Pg2 Mid)

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by mbbhat » 06 Feb 2017

Kindly do not deviate from the argument. You have said-
trueshaiv wrote:The Murli point does say "Pavitra Kanya ke tan mein aavein, parantu kaayda nahi hai. Baap so fir Kumari par kaise sawari karenge"
PBKs believe there are 4/5 Brahmas. They believe Kamala Devi, sister Vedanti, and Om Radhe- all the three are Brahmas. And- for a personality to get name Brahma, God should enter in them. So- PBKs are inadvertently implying God enters in these three virgins. Yes or No??
------------------
Other queries are addressed here- viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2642

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by trueshaiv » 06 Feb 2017

Om Shanti bhaiji,

Brahma baba in his one of the recent Avyakt Vanis in "Mount Abu" in 2016 said "Om Shanti", ye kitne mahavakya hai.

Firstly, let's learn to respect his words and greet each other the same way coz if there's no application of Gyan in one's life then it shows that there's no Gyan in life.

Secondly, my previous post was not an answer to your post. Rather it was detailed explanation of other Murli points and facts which I wanted to bring in front of our brother "Anjaneya" who wanted clarification on this topic.

Thirdly, from the very first word I typed, I never considered it as an argument but a discussion of factual points from Murli but in your last response, your very first statement:

"Kindly do not deviate from the argument. You have said- "

shows that you aren't here for discussion but merely argument.

Nevertheless, all of this comes at last since this Gyan is not something to fight on but its something to churn onto. I'll get back to you tomorrow morning with exact Murli points and we will "Discuss" about it further then.

Om Shanti :)

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by mbbhat » 07 Feb 2017

trueshaiv wrote:shows that you aren't here for discussion but merely argument.
I have done both- discussion and arguments.

I just pointed to the link where it was very much relevant. Regarding subtle Brahma or virgin- I have attempted to reply here- - Post No. 121 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... gin#p12446

If possible, you may kindly explain how can God enter in virgins - Kamala Devi, Premkanta (who had been the first jagadamba of PBKs- then got shifted to Kamala Devi), Om Radhe, and sister Vedanti.

If you cannot do that- which is the soul foundation of PBK theory, then whatever attempt PBKs may do, it will be futile.

BTW- Kindly note that- In the Murli point (which says I do not ride in virgin) - Baba had said - I do not enter King, Saints, and Virgin. It again shows- Baba has said it keeping lowkik people in mind.

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by trueshaiv » 07 Feb 2017

Bhaiji,

I've been reading this blog page from past 2-3 months and have covered up most of the important discussions held and have read yours and other brothers' views. However, after so many discussions, in the end some of the important Murli points have always been totally ignored by BKs which I wish to bring forth again and I believe if these points are churned onto, I am sure it would help you to unfold the Yagya history to great extent and thereafter the 4-5 brahmas. So, here's how it goes:

1.) "10 varsha se saath mein rehne waale dhyaan mein jaaye, mumma-baba ko bhi drill kraate the. Head hokar baithte the. Unmein baba pravesh kar direction dete the. Kitna martaba tha. Mumma-baba bhi unse seekhte the. Aaj wah bhi hain nahi. Uss samay yah itna Gyan nahi tha." (Mu. 25/7/67)

2.)"Oonch te Oonch baap ko zarur oonch te oonch mein hi pravesh karna chahiye. Manushya samajhte hain oonch hai Shri Krishna"

3.) "Baba kehte hain hum bhi 60 varsha ki aayu mein bahut janmon ke antt mein inki vaan prastha awastha hui tab maine pravesh kiya."

Now, after studying these points, one can easily draw below mentioned conclusions:

1.) There were more intelligent students in the beginning of the Yagya who taught mumma-baba and Shiv Supreme Soul used to enter and give directions through their corporeal bodies. Therefore, brahma baba wasn't the only medium.

2.) As per clarification, Adi Brahma(Vishwapita or Prajapita) was "oonch te oonch" or permanent medium for Shiv Supreme Soul to enter into and give directions and he becomes the first brahma in 1936, in which Supreme Soul entered. That soul is Father of human existence in corporeal form and he's still present with his Chariot in Yagya( with new birth as Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit ji) to complete the task of converting impures to pure beings.

Nothing in this world is born without the presence of parents(mother and Father)

Now if there' Vishwapita, there should be Jagatamba in Yagya to make this Yagya pravruttimarg Yagya(presence of both Father and mother in family). Hence, Supreme Soul entered both Adi Brahma and Jagdamba in 1936 at the same time when Badi Ma(Jagdamba) who told Adi Brahma about the visions of brahma baba and laid the foundation of Bhakti-marg but she could not understand it. However, at the same time, through the words of Jagdamba, Adibrahma became the first brahmin and at the same instance due to presence of Supreme Soul he being the permanent Chariot understood the meaning of those visions. Therefore, this is how Jagatpita and Jagdamba were born in this vastly knowledge. Since Adi brahma understood the meaning of visions, he took the place of 1st brahma.

Now, he explained those same visions in front of Jagdamba and Choti Ma(relative of Dada Lekhraj Brahma). However, among these two mothers, choti ma was the one who understood the meaning of visions explained by Adi Brahma and had complete faith then about the role of Dada Lekhraj Brahma in Satyug and how this world will get destroyed. Therefore, on the basis of understanding, she took the place of 2nd Brahma and Jagdamba took the place of 3rd Brahma. Also, among these two mothers both of them tried to explain the meaning of visions to Dada Lekhraj Brahma. However, since he knew that Badi Ma was more inclined towards method of"sunna-sunana" he did not believe her but when the same explanation was given by Choti Ma to him, he had then utter and complete belief in her due to her vibes of intelligence and Brahma baba became "nishchaybuddhi" about his part and role.

After Adi Brahma(1st brahma) left his body in 1941-42, choti ma and Jagdamba(Badi Ma) were the only medium for Supreme Soul to teach children and Mumma-Baba, therefore, they will also be considered as Brahma. Those mothers had also left the Yagya by 1947(firstly choti ma and then Jagdamba). Since after 1947, the Supreme Soul entered into Dada Lekhraj Brahma and then Murlis were spoken from the year 1951 through his Chariot. Hence he's considered as 4th Brahma

The same 2nd brahma(choti ma) and 3rd brahma(Badi Ma or Jagdamba) have come back in Yagya with new birth whom today we know as Sister Vedanti and and Kamla Devi in this lowkik world.

So, they are considered as two faces of brahma since Supreme Soul used to enter them in their previous births and their age was above 60 years as well by then. Now at the age of 60, can a lady be called a kanya or will she be addressed as a mother. Ofcourse, as a mother, therefore, the point:

"Pavitra Kanya ke tan mein aavein, parantu kaayda nahi hai. Baap so fir Kumari par kaise sawari karenge"

does not get contradicted in case of Kamla Devi and Sister Vedanti due to entrance of Supreme Soul in them in previous births. But it does get contradicted in case of Gulzar Dadi since Avyakt Vanis have been going on through her Chariot since 21st Jan, 1969 and she was a kanya at that point of time and it still continues through her Chariot in the same way.

So, these are the ways in which 4 mukhi brahma have been sung in Hindu mythology.

The 5th Brahma is considered to be Om Radhe Mumma on the basis of the intelligence that she had shown in her corporeal form when Murlis were spoken. In the beginning of the Yagya, the students used to sit in remembrance of big red light as form of Supreme Soul and it can still be seen in the form of red lights merchandise being given by BKs at every centre. However, Om Radhe Mumma who always used to Father Brahma baba exactly as per the Murli points, in the prersence of vibration of Supreme Soul was able to determine that remembrance of big red light as Shiva Supreme Soul is wrong. She churned and found the point that if a soul is nirakaar and white point of light then the Father of all the souls is also nirakaar jyotibindu, therefore, one should remember nirakaar white point of light as Supreme Soul. However, due to bad health later on she couldn't fully unfold the mystery of the Murli points and left her corporeal body.

This is the explanation of 4-5 brahmas mentioned in Hindu mythology.

3.)Premkanta is not considered as brahma. The role of Premkanta is sung as one of the brothers of Ram, "Bharat". Just like in Ramayana, it's been sung that Ram had three brothers Bharat, Lakshman and Shatrughan and whatever is written in epics and puranas are remembrance of events or incidents that take place in Confluence Age in our Family of Brahmins including BKs and PBKs. We know that foreigners in limited world as well are intelligent and hence they lead their country to maximum growth in terms of money and development as compared to India. Therefore, the same thing happens in the Vastly world of brahmins wherein the foreigner souls due to extreme intelligence identify the part of Father first and Premkanta being first among them and that happens in 1976 when second corporeal role of Supreme Soul was introduced in the world of brahmins.

Om Shanti

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by mbbhat » 07 Feb 2017

trueshaiv wrote:So, here's how it goes:
1.) "10 varsha se (Mu. 25/7/67)
1.) There were more intelligent students in the beginning of the Yagya who taught mumma-baba and Shiv Supreme Soul used to enter and give directions through their corporeal bodies. Therefore, Brahma Baba wasn't the only medium.
Who had said B baba was the only medium? It was very well known that ShivBaba used to enter in other children too.
2.)"Oonch te Oonch baap ko zarur oonch te oonch mein hi pravesh karna chahiye. Manushya samajhte hain oonch hai Shri Krishna"
Obviously, the VERY SAME soul of Shri Krishna, in the Golden Age, is a Deity, who is considered to be not as great, AS COMPARED TO HIMSELF, when he plays the role as Brahma, in the Confluence Age - since braahmins are greater than deities. [Of course, the soul is one and the same. I trust PBKs have the minimum intelligence to understand this much, AT LEAST].
3.) "Baba kehte hain hum bhi 60 varsha ki aayu mein bahut janmon ke antt mein inki vaan prastha awastha hui tab maine pravesh kiya."
The above point was spoken through Brahma Baba, and therefore APPLIES to Brahma Baba, and NOT to Sevakram or to any other personality. PBKs do not have anything to claim that God had entered in Sevakram- take other points too, about 60 yrs. Post No. 84 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... sth#p11850

Take all the Murli points and prove that all of them direct to Sevakram.
As per clarification, Adi Brahma(Vishwapita or Prajapita) was "oonch te oonch" or permanent medium for Shiv Supreme Soul to enter into and give directions and he becomes the first Brahma in 1936, in which Supreme Soul entered. That soul is Father of human existence in corporeal form and he's still present with his Chariot in Yagya( with new birth as Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit ji) to complete the task of converting impures to pure beings.

Nothing in this world is born without the presence of parents(mother and Father)

Hence, Supreme Soul entered both Adi Brahma and Jagdamba in 1936 at the same time

when Badi Ma(Jagdamba) who told Adi Brahma about the visions of Brahma Baba and laid the foundation of Bhakti-marg but she could not understand it. However, at the same time, through the words of Jagdamba, Adibrahma became the first Brahmin and at the same instance due to presence of Supreme Soul he being the permanent Chariot understood the meaning of those visions. Therefore, this is how Jagatpita and Jagdamba were born in this vastly knowledge. Since Adi Brahma understood the meaning of visions, he took the place of 1st Brahma.

Now, he explained those same visions in front of Jagdamba and Choti Ma(relative of Dada Lekhraj Brahma). However, among these two mothers, choti ma was the one who understood the meaning of visions explained by Adi Brahma and had complete faith then about the role of Dada Lekhraj Brahma in Satyug and how this world will get destroyed. Therefore, on the basis of understanding, she took the place of 2nd Brahma and Jagdamba took the place of 3rd Brahma. Also, among these two mothers both of them tried to explain the meaning of visions to Dada Lekhraj Brahma. However, since he knew that Badi Ma was more inclined towards method of"sunna-sunana" he did not believe her but when the same explanation was given by Choti Ma to him, he had then utter and complete belief in her due to her vibes of intelligence and Brahma Baba became "nishchaybuddhi" about his part and role.

After Adi Brahma(1st Brahma) left his body in 1941-42, choti ma and Jagdamba(Badi Ma) were the only medium for Supreme Soul to teach children and Mumma-Baba, therefore, they will also be considered as Brahma. Those mothers had also left the Yagya by 1947(firstly choti ma and then Jagdamba). Since after 1947, the Supreme Soul entered into Dada Lekhraj Brahma and then Murlis were spoken from the year 1951 through his Chariot. Hence he's considered as 4th Brahma

The same 2nd Brahma(choti ma) and 3rd Brahma(Badi Ma or Jagdamba) have come back in Yagya with new birth whom today we know as Sister Vedanti and and Kamla Devi in this lowkik world.
So- far I had heard Adi Brahma means Kamala Devi. But, the above PBk says- Adi Brahma means Mr. Dixit!
WHAT A MIX UP. DO PBKs understand what they are talking about, AT ALL???
Nothing in this world is born without the presence of parents(mother and Father)

Hence, Supreme Soul entered both Adi Brahma and Jagdamba in 1936 at the same time
Ridiculous- How can God enter two bodies at the same time? Is God split into two or is God omnipresent?
You can see another PBK says something different here- viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2112&p=31892#p31892

Now, how come God creates children, when Kamala Devi is out of Yagya from 1998? Just father is enough to create children?
So, they are considered as two faces of Brahma since Supreme Soul used to enter them in their previous births and their age was above 60 years as well by then. Now at the age of 60, can a lady be called a kanya or will she be addressed as a mother. Of course, as a mother, therefore, the point:

"Pavitra Kanya ke tan mein aavein, parantu kaayda nahi hai. Baap so fir Kumari par kaise sawari karenge"

does not get contradicted in case of Kamla Devi and Sister Vedanti due to entrance of Supreme Soul in them in previous births.
Loose argument, as they had been- especially KD was too young, and inexperienced when she came to AIVV.
But, the first Jagadamba of PBKs was Premkanta, not Kamala Devi. So- it just fails. If we add Premkanta, it becomes 6 Brahmas!

More in flaw No. 478 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=52527#p52527
The 5th Brahma is considered to be Om Radhe Mumma on the basis of the intelligence
We can see some Dadis too taking classes. So- do you call them as Brahma? More service is happening in BKWSU in the absence of Mama and B baba. So- in your (weak) argument, why it cannot be said Dadis/Didis are more intelligent than Mama or at least good level and add them too to the list of Brahmas?
However, Om Radhe Mumma who always used to Father Brahma Baba exactly as per the Murli points,
Mostly the word 'follow' is missing there. PBK Sita soul had said it Mama used to follow Father Brahma 100% . Now the ridiculous thing is- how can an intelligent person follow a baby intellectual person?
3.)Premkanta is not considered as Brahma.
Mr Dixit gave the seat of Jagadamba first to Premkanta. When Premkanta failed, then that seat was given to Kamala Devi. Flaw No 118 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50885&hilit ... nta#p50885

It then automatically implies in PBK view- Premkanta was the first or second Brahma.

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by trueshaiv » 07 Feb 2017

Bhaiji,

You don't need to get irate at all or I better say "Irritated".

Like I had mentioned earlier, I am here not to argue but to discuss about this knowledge because it is not something to fight onto but to churn onto but I guess you have something else in your mind.

But though BKs claim their purity, I don't expect you to be even few celestial degrees pure being right now.

And here I quote:

"You had already anticipated your answers about this very conversation in the beginning but so did I"

One who has already anticipated not to understand others point of view would always respond the same way as you did. But I am happy coz I do not feel the need to prove anything since I am being taught by ShivBaba himself and we PBKs are proud to follow every direction that has been spoken by shiv Supreme Soul through the Chariot of Dada Lekhraj Brahma baba and clarified by His permanent Chariot right now.

By the way, in latest Avyakt Vani dated 31/12/2016, someone mentioned on stage in presence of Brahma baba(in Gulzar Dadi) that Dadi Janki is turning 101 this year and her Birthday will be celeberated on 1st Jan 2017 in eve and it did happen. However, the irony of the situation is, Supreme Soul through the Chariot of Dada Lekhraj brahma had said that "brahmins shouls not celebrate their lokik birthdays coz it leads to rituals of Bhaktimarg, but otherwise happens in among BKs. If one's actually on the path of knowledge, they would not look for or feel the need of a particular day to celebrate. Rather, the true yogis make effort to train and control their mind to be happy from inside and remain stable and focussed, be it any circumstances.

Since BKs call themselves as the only mouth progeny brahmins, I do not know one should give heartiest congratulations or express heartiest pity on birthday celebrations over there thereby disregarding the words of Supreme Soul spoken through the temporary Chariot of brahma baba.

I guess they would need to introspect themselves as per the directions of Murli.

Om Shanti

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by mbbhat » 08 Feb 2017

trueshaiv wrote:By the way, in latest Avyakt Vani dated 31/12/2016, someone mentioned on stage in presence of Brahma Baba(in Gulzar Dadi) that Dadi Janki is turning 101 this year and her Birthday will be celeberated on 1st Jan 2017 in eve and it did happen. However, the irony of the situation is, Supreme Soul through the Chariot of Dada Lekhraj Brahma had said that "Brahmins shouls not celebrate their lokik birthdays coz it leads to rituals of Bhaktimarg, but otherwise happens in among BKs.
If we see, PBKs are attached to lowkik date of births. They are more attached to 1884, 1866, 1876, etc- and keep on arguing on physical age of Sevakram, Lekhraj Kirpalani, and unfortunately, they could not have succeeded on sister Vedanti and KD.

PBKs always add 40 yrs to the physical age of so-called their Sevakram to get 1976!

BKs do not celebrate their birthday with lowkik relatives or on their lowkik date of birth. 1st Jan would not be DOB of Dadi janki- is it not? Of course, when some important personalities turn to be physically 75 yrs, 100 yrs, etc- some celebration may happen , and it is good - because they also have some value*.

Baba has also said - celebrate alowkik birthday. So- BKs see at least some alowkikathaa in lowkikathaa.
But, PBKs are seeing in the reverse order.

Jaise dhrushti, vaisee srushti.

* - If BKs are interested in lowkik birthday, then they should have celebrated birthday of Dadis in every year, in the same day as their lowkik date, is it not? - even if their lowkik relatives are not invited, is it not?

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by trueshaiv » 08 Feb 2017

Brother mbbhat,

One can create as many loop holes, shortcuts to Murlis as per their "manmat" and conveniences to please themselves and others. And when Shrimat is mixed with manmat, the knowledge gets adulterated. It means disregard to highest valuable words. I believe no words, occasion and even this whole world can be bigger than those words which have been said in Murlis.

As it has been said "ye Murli hamari laathi hai". If one has love for Murli, he/she has love for murlidhar.

Its all about feelings filled up with nectar of knowledge that works in our vastly world of knowledge given by Supreme Soul.

Brother if you look at this limited world, people(be it famous personalities, biggies or be it common man") choose to stand in big V.I.P. lines or common lines to worship an idol made of mud or plaster of paris etc. They choose to believe that god exists in that idol kept in temples or exists in dargah, in gurudwaras etc. etc. depending upon the religion.

Now, if we talk about Murlis, its just few of us (BKs and PBKs )who believe in every word said while the current world population is 7.47 billion and alone almost 1.3 billion in India and rest continue to believe the same thing as they find convenient. Also, in the same limited world where every soul is playing its part, there are many who have set up there own shivirs and camps like ravishankar, saints of oshoworld, radhe ma and many more which cannot be even counted. Each one of them believe their knowledge to be the topmost and have their own set of followers without opposing each other in same country and even states. Its only because, adulteration in knowledge from Copper Age has now come to its peak here in Iron Age and its mere business and source of excessive income for these saints.

This world has gone so far away from the actual knowledge that the pain, sufferings and sorrows have made people to follow those saints to spare themselves from those sufferings even without thinking, when we souls have the most amazing power of "buddhi" to control our mind("mind") and hence we can reason and judge unlike animals.

We know that when shiv Supreme Soul comes at the end of the cycle in Confluence Age in this "drama", he comes with 3 corporeal personalities, makes them medium and gives his knowledge in the form of Gyaan through one personality(brahma baba), Gyanamrit(meaning of those words which cannot be easily understood by the children since he speaks of the unlimited world) through the other personality("Jagatpita")and then teaches us to apply that knowledge in practical life by bringing the last personality("Bharatmata", mother of true bharatwasis)

Now in this world full of sorrows, where any aspirant can easily set up a shivir, is good at speaking, can easily gather people in the name of satsang and earn millions, doesn't it click to anyone that only one personality felt the need to study the same Murlis read by BKs and then depict the true meaning of those words which no one else chose to do and give utmost respect to those words spoken by Supreme Soul through Brahma baba.

Its not just a co-incidence but an effort made by the second corporeal form or personality (Baba Dixit ji)whom Supreme Soul has made the medium which BKs consider opposition to their knowledge though the points are same.

Now I would just request you to rewind back your memories to very first day of your life when you came to know about BKWSU and this vastly knowledge and you felt and chose to believe that Supreme Soul really spoke those words through the Chariot of brahma baba. Its the same way on the basis of clarification of those words by the other Chariot("Baba Dixit ji") others have chosen to be a part of PBKs based on the same knowledge.

This world is forest of thorns, which cannot work without existence of king of the jungle(Lion). Its another example of mother nature to us and in fact everything around us is an example of drama going on and what happens in Confluence Age. In the same way, after the departure of 1st lion(Brahma baba) whom no dharmaguru could oppose, no one else but only the permanent Chariot of Supreme Soul("Baba Dixit ji") was brave enough to churn through the knowledge of same Murli and gave those gems of knowledge to everyone who showed the interest thereby acting as the second lion in the jungle of thorns.

And as it has been said in Murlis:

"Jab tumhari aatma roopi sui ki katt utar jaayegi, to tum bachche direct baap se sunenge" .

Also, at many places in Murlis, you would have come across the line "samjhe naa" or "samajh rahe ho naa" which shows that there are many secrets behind those lines. So, it becomes important for all the students churning in this knowledge to think over it and go deep into the ocean of knowledge since we souls, be it BKs or PBKs are powerful enough to do that.

Rest, bhaiji I leave it upto you to decide the way you choose to churn in this knowledge.

Om Shanti :)

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by shivsena » 08 Feb 2017

trueshaiv wrote:Bhaiji,
The same 2nd Brahma(choti ma) and 3rd Brahma(Badi Ma or Jagdamba) have come back in Yagya with new birth whom today we know as Sister Vedanti and and Kamla Devi in this lowkik world.
So, these are the ways in which 4 mukhi Brahma have been sung in Hindu mythology.

This is the explanation of 4-5 brahmas mentioned in Hindu mythology.

Om Shanti
Sharing my views about 4-heads of Brahma and 8-Narayans & 8-gardens of Satyug based on study of Murlis-Vanis.
World Drama wheel shows the 4-main religions of the world viz:
1- Adi-sanatan Devi-Devta dharm (continued as Hinduism)
2- Islam religion established by Ibrahim.
3- Buddhism established by Buddha.
4- Christianity established by Christ.
Kalpa-vriksha picture shows 4-more religions which are really off-shoots of the above 4 main religions viz: Muslim religion--Sanyas religion--Sikkhism--Arya Samaj.
There is a very deep connection of the 8 above religions with 8-LN and 8-Gardens of Satyug.

Regarding the 4-heads of Brahma, the head of 1st Brahma (with body) represents the role of Prajapita Brahma-Lekhraj Kirpalani played in Sangamyug (in whom Nirakar-ShivBaba incarnated and is establishing Adi-sanatan Devi-Devta Dharm.)..He is also the First Narayan of Satyug....he is also remembered as nandi bull along with shivling in Bhakti-marg.

....the rest 3-heads(without body) represents the 3-souls who tried to copy Prajapita Brahma-Lekhraj Kirpalani after 1969 and claim to be Prajapita (with shiv incarnating in them).. ..these 3 souls are the 2nd--3rd--4th Narayan of Satyug and were all students of BKWSU at one time and accepted Lekhraj Kirpalani as Prajapita Brahma ...but later on they seperated out from BKWSU as per drama plan and formed their own groups by the name of Aivv -- Vishnu-party and Nagraj-party respectively.....these 3-souls do not take full 84 births and are really the foundation-souls of Islam-Buddhism-Christianity in whom the Founding Fathers of these 3 religions will descend from Paramdham from Dwapur-yug onwards & incarnate in them and establish their respective religions (as per Murli point : "Sab dharm ka adha sukh ka part hai aur adha dukh ka part hai").

....Similarly the last 4 Narayans of Satyug are foundation souls of the last 4 religions(as mentioned above) and will get converted into their respective religions after Dwapur-yug.
....Only the 1st Narayan-Lekhraj Kirpalani and his praja are 16 kalaa sampoorna and will take 84 births, while all the other 7 Narayans are actually girti-kalaa wale Vidharmi-Narayans (1/4 degree less in each birth)... all 8-Narayans and their praja will have seperate 8-Gardens in Satyug and they will never interact with each other, as their beliefs were totally different from each other in Sangamyug.....All the Narayans and their Praja will become Hindus after Dwapur-yug but only those who have taken 84 births will remain Hindus till the end of Kaliyug.....while the 7 girti-kalaa wale Narayans and their praja will get converted into their respective religions as and when their religion are established and will remain in their religion till the end of Kaliyug (when they will again accept BKWSU Godly Gyan and become brahmins again)....These 7-Narayans are remembered in Bhakti as Sapt-rishis (seven sages), the mind-born sons (manas-putra) of Brahma-Creator....but they are half-cast brahmins as they do not take full 84 births.

As regards Brahma being not worshipped in Bhakti marg is that Brahma created the Subtle Region of BKWSU with his sankalp(Murlis)... ("Brahma ke sankalpon se shristi rachee.")....aur iss sankalp(Murlis ) ko sab 8 religious groups ke head ne alag alag tarike se interpret kiya aur apni praja banayee....so brahma ke sankalpon se jo shristi banee usse BKWSU mei mahabharat ki ladayee hui (2018 mei civil war hogi )....aur iss yudh ke baad jin 108 rudramala(master Shankar) ki vijay hogi, unhi ka Bhakti marg mei gayan hota hai....issliye brahma ka koi gayan nahi hota.(Brahma aur Brahmins ki mala nahi banti)

This is my view as per the churning of Murlis-Vanis and tallying the scriptures.
...your views are awaited.

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Re: Shiv BABAKE RSTH

Post by trueshaiv » 09 Feb 2017

Om Shanti bhaiji,

Really appreciate you sharing your points in an organised way about the studies which you made. I am more than happy to share my views. Here's how it goes:

1.)If we talk about 4 heads of brahma which has been sung about in scriptures in Hindu mythology, it means there have been 4 mouths through which knowledge has been imparted in our world of brahmins. If we tally it with our Rudra Gyan Yagya which began from 1936, I have given detailed explanation about these 4 brahmas as per Baba's clarification in my 4th response in this same thread. I would request you to go through the same explanation.

2.)8 Narayans of Satyug and their connection with leftist and righteous religions shown in the Kalpa Vriksha:

I have the same view that Dada Lekhraj brahma would be born as 16 celestial degrees pure Shri Krishna and Om Radhe Mumma as Radha in Golden Age as first children. But then again, they would be extremely pure souls in corporeal bodies with the remembrance that they are souls and not physical corporeal bodies. The knowledge that brahmins imbibe here in Confluence Age in much detail will stay in brief form in one's intellect in Golden Age that we are souls and this is just a biological suit of five elements that we get to play our parts in Sakar. The same way how a cassette plays in a tape recorder but we see that the voice comes out of tape recorder. Another point I would lay emphasis on is that when Brahma baba would be born as pure Shri Krishna in Golden Age with 16 celestial degrees in corporeal form, as per the rule of mother nature and drama, there should be parents as well who will have celestial degrees slightly greater than or equal to 16 celestial degrees. As Supreme Soul through brahma baba said "main jab aata hun to prakriti ka koi bhi niyam nahi todhta"

Its the same way children born in present Iron Age imbibe same features as per genetics of parents which is the rule of mother nature that nothing in this world of five elements is bron without the existance of parents. The only difference between these two ages is that in present age, children are born through impure methods by the usage or corrupt organs and in Golden Age, the thought process or sankalp shakti by contacting through eyes ("sreshth indriyan")will result in birth of pure beings. It's been shown in the picture of Lakshmi Narayan which was made on the basis of buddhi Yoga in 1965-66 when brahma baba was present. You can see how the parents of Shri Krishna (Sangamyugi Lakshmi Narayan)would be who are experiencing happiness through vibration of mind and not even looking at each other (highest way of experiencing togetherness in this corporeal world which happens in diamond age)and below is Shri Krishna and Radha who are experiencing happiness of togetherness by contacting through eyes.

Like you said, last 7 Narayans of the Golden Age will be of less celestial degrees since they will be born in girti kala, therefore they become the base or adhaar of the Dharmapitas Ibrahim, buddh, Christ, Shankracharya, Muhammad, Guru Nanak and Maharshi Dayanand from Copper Age. Each of these religion beginning in Satopradhan stage and then with time they have now converted into tamopradhan stage.

Since everything written about in scriptures is the remembrance of the 100 years of Confluence Age itself, be it anyone of them, theres just one Narayan that has been praised in those scriptures who existed in Confluence Age of previous cycle and now in this cycle in the same form of permanent Chariot of Supreme Soul.

Bhagirath has been mentioned in Murlis which refers to one bhagyashali raath or mukarar rath and its the only one whose name is attached with the name of shiv in Bhaktimarg and that's Shankar.
Your other point that its been sung about shivling and bull sitting outside, absolutely fits into this vastly knowledge. The bull refers to soul of brahma baba who becomes the most helpful to the permanent Chariot in whom Supreme Soul enters and the shivling shows the nirakari stage of the permanent Chariot who has no sense of any sense organs or any other organs(in whom nirakar shiv Supreme Soul enters shown in the form of tilak or bindi in the centre of three horizontal lines on shivling) is the only one who attains the nirakari stage equal to Supreme Soul shiv being in corporeal body.

But all of this happens with time and in scriptures, fragmants of these remembrances have been mentioned in the form of stories. The real meaning of thise scriptures was either known by the writers or the gyaan surya baap shiv and those clarifications are being given now.

3.) Also, as per the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis of bap-Dada, it can be determined that AIVV or University of Advance Knowledge wasn't just a random thought by Baba Dixit ji like Vishnu Party and other groups who do not give importance to the words of Supreme Soul in Murlis. In Murlis its been said:

"tum bachche apni university ka naam God Fatherly university rakhoge"

Also, there's a phrase from Avyakt Vani dated 2/8/72 Page 349 which I would like to quote:

"Advance Party ka karya chal raha hai. Aap logon ke liye saari field tayyar karenge. Unke parivaar mein jaao, na jaao; Lekin jo sthapna ka karya hona hai uske liye vah nimitt banenge. Advance Party ka to apna karya chal raha hai. Unka karya hi aapke connection se chalna hai."

Therefore the best of both(4.5 lakhs in total in corporeal form present till the end who are mouth progeny and give importance to Murlis above anything) will lay the foundation of the new Golden Age and will give births to children like Radha Krishna. In the end everyone has to recognize the role of Father played by Supreme Soul through a media in this corporeal world just like we recognized the role of mother played by Supreme Soul through Dada Lekhraj brahma baba in same corporeal world.

I have included all the points which are my views. do not want to make it much longer :)

Any further inputs from your end are most welcomed.

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