Questions for PBKs

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arjun
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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 03 Jun 2015

Only one Shankar is combined with Shiv on the path of Bhakti, not 108 Shankar. It has been said in the Sakar Murlis that one should not try to follow or become Shankar. There are many Shaligrams but only one Shivling representing the combined form of Shiv-Shankar and Jagdamba.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by shivsena » 03 Jun 2015

arjun wrote: It has been said in the Sakar Murlis that one should not try to follow or become Shankar.
Baba has never said in Murlis about not to become Shankar....this is -Virendra Dev Dixit's manmat....Please give the date of Murli and exact quote.....av-Vani clearly says that sometimes children have to become master Brahma and sometimes children have to become master Shankar.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by khemkaran » 04 Jun 2015

Om Shanti Arjun Bhai
There are many Shaligrams but only one Shivling representing the combined form of Shiv-Shankar and Jagdamba.
You are right here Arjun Bhai- One Shivling has among many Shaligrams.
you are wrong here - One Shivling representing the combined form of Shiv-Shankar and Jagdamba.
Shivling is represent only Paramata (Nirakar) form and Shaligrams also represents Atma form (Nirakar).

Thus- Shivling + Shaligrams = Parmatma (Supreme Soul) + Atma (Souls)

This situation is in the Paramdham which rememberance in Bhaktimarg.

And Shankar & Jagdamba represent human form.
So there are great different between Shivling and Shankar, Jagdamba
Shivling not combined form of any corporeal human, Shivllng is seprate form.


I agree with Shivsena.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 04 Jun 2015

khemkaran wrote:you are wrong here - One Shivling representing the combined form of Shiv-Shankar and Jagdamba.
You may mark me wrong, but on the path of Bhakti, if you ask the experts on Hindu scriptures, they will tell you that Shivling is a combined form of Shankar and Parvati. The ling represents Shankar while the Jaladhari represents Parvati. The only thing they don't know is that Shiv is different from Shankar and that Shiv enters in Shankar.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 04 Jun 2015

shivsena wrote:Baba has never said in Murlis about not to become Shankar....this is -Virendra Dev Dixit's manmat....Please give the date of Murli and exact quote.....av-Vani clearly says that sometimes children have to become master Brahma and sometimes children have to become master Shankar.
The mention of Master Brahma and Master Shankar in Avyakt Vanis is in a different context. It is with regard to inculcation of virtues. But in the Sakar Murlis it was mentioned not to become Shankar in a different context.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by karan » 05 Jun 2015

arjun wrote:You may mark me wrong, but on the path of Bhakti, if you ask the experts on Hindu scriptures, they will tell you that Shivling is a combined form of Shankar and Parvati.
Similarly, if you ask those experts, they will tell you that God of Gita is Krishna and Kalpa is lakhs of years.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 05 Jun 2015

karan wrote:Similarly, if you ask those experts, they will tell you that God of Gita is Krishna and Kalpa is lakhs of years.
Yes, the shooting for the same also takes place in the world of alokik Brahmins where they consider Lekhraj Kirpalani to be the God of Gita or at least show to the world that he is.
Similarly, they tell the world that the world is going to be destroyed but are building luxurious palaces for themselves. So, in a way they show to the world that the world is not going to end.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by khemkaran » 05 Jun 2015

Om Shanti, Arjun Bhai,
You may mark me wrong, but on the path of Bhakti, if you ask the experts on Hindu scriptures, they will tell you that Shivling is a combined form of Shankar and Parvati. The ling represents Shankar while the Jaladhari represents Parvati. The only thing they don't know is that Shiv is different from Shankar and that Shiv enters in Shankar.
If you churn the Knowledge on the basis of Tamopradhan Bhakti path, that would lead you to the Tamopradhan essence of Godly Knowledge? So you need to decide what exactly you want?

If you see the picture of the Ladder, you will observe that in Dwapar Yug when Bhakti Starts -
there is FIRST Avyabhichari (Unadulterated) Bhakti, followed by Vyabhichari (Adulterated) Bhakti.
FIRST Avyabhichari (Unadulterated) Bhakti is that of Nirakar Shiv, in the form of ShivLing.
The Bhakti of Shiv, CORRUPTED with Shankar, is Vyabhichari (Adulterated) Bhakti.

The combined form of Shankar and Parvati called Ardhnareshwar of the path of Vyabhichari (Adulterated) Bhakti:
Image

If you feel that you are right, kindly connect me with any expert or source on Hindu scriptures from whom/where you received such understanding?

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Abhimanyu » 05 Jun 2015

khemkaran wrote: The combined form of Shankar and Parvati called Ardhnareshwar of the path of Vyabhichari (Adulterated) Bhakti:
The personality ShivBaba(Virendra Dev Dixit) is in actual Ardhnareshwar because soul of both male(Virendra Dev Dixit) and female(Lekhraj Kirpalani) is present in him. Virendra Dev Dixit is the personality of Shankar who is considered to be the Father of entire humanity in bath of Bhakti.
Whereas Lekhraj Kirpalani is Brahma(Brahm + ma). Brahm means big and ma means mother. So he is the biggest mother. Thus the souls of biggest Father and biggest mother is present in Virendra Dev Dixit due which he is Ardhnareshwar. It is this remembrance which has continued in the path of Bhakti.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by shivsena » 06 Jun 2015

arjun wrote: But in the Sakar Murlis it was mentioned not to become Shankar in a different context.
Please give the Murli date and quote which says not to become Shankar.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by khemkaran » 06 Jun 2015

Om Shanti, Abhimanyu Bhai,
Veerendra Dev Dixit is the personality of Shankar who is considered to be the Father of entire humanity in bath of Bhakti.
Whereas Lekhraj Kirpalani is Brahma(Brahm + ma). Brahm means big and ma means mother. So he is the biggest mother. Thus the souls of biggest Father and biggest mother is present in Veerendra Dev Dixit due which he is Ardhnareshwar. It is this remembrance which has continued in the path of Bhakti.
I repeat again - If you churn The Knowledge on the basis of Tamopradhan Bhakti path, that would lead you to the Tamopradhan essence of Godly Knowledge? So you need to decide what exactly you want?

If Virendra Dev Dixit plays the part of Shankar, firstly Virendra Dev Dixit has to control the Ghost (Bhut-pret) of the World. After that he should think about becoming 'Shankar'. It is this remembrance which has continued in the path of Bhakti.
I think your Shankar cannot control the Ghost of the World, according to path of Bhakti.
'Shankar' means ONE who can CONTROL the World practically, and NOT just NARRATE the Knowledge!

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 06 Jun 2015

khemkaran wrote:The combined form of Shankar and Parvati called Ardhnareshwar of the path of Vyabhichari (Adulterated) Bhakti:
Even in the picture of Ardhanaareeshwar the corporeal Father (Prajapita), the corporeal mother (Jagdamba) and the incorporeal Father Shiv have been depicted. The same is depicted in the Shivling in the form of Ling+Jaladhari+Incorporeal point on the ling.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by khemkaran » 06 Jun 2015

Om Shanti, Arjun Bhai,
Even in the picture of Ardhanaareeshwar the corporeal Father (Prajapita), the corporeal mother (Jagdamba) and the incorporeal Father Shiv have been depicted. The same is depicted in the Shivling in the form of Ling+Jaladhari+Incorporeal point on the ling.
I repeat AGAIN - If you churn The PURE Knowledge from Shiv on the basis of TAMOPRADHAN (CORRUPTED, ADULTERATED & DEGRADED) INTERPRETATIONS of the path of Bhakti, that would LEAD you ONLY to the TAMOPRADHAN essence of Godly Knowledge; or PURE Knowledge from Shiv, which has been CORRUPTED, ADULTERATED & DEGRADED with the Mayavimat, Kumat, Manmat and Parmat of BODILY BEINGS, over a period of Time in Sangam Yug, is it NOT? So you NEED to DECIDE what EXACTLY you want?

Shankar + Parvati = Ardhnarishwar
Prajapita + Jagdamba = ? (No combined role ?)
since there are no memorials of combined role of Prajapita + Jagdamba on the path of Bhakti Marg ?

When we souls came into body-consciousness, in the very beginning of Copper Age, we could not think of or imagine Shiv only as a point of incorporeal light, so we FIRST made ONLY a SIMPLE, STRAIGHT, OVAL Shiv 'LING', to represent Shiv in a corporeal form, to which we could easily relate to, and remember Shiv in a corporeal form, since we ourselves were aware of only our own corporeal form, and FORGOT or LOST the AWARENESS that we were incorporeal souls.
This was the VERY FIRST UNADULTERATED remembrance or memorial of Shiv on Bhakti path.

LATER on, we desired to worship Shiv by putting water, milk, etc, on top of this SIMPLE, STRAIGHT, OVAL Shiv 'LING', and in order to facilitate the collection of same in a ready-made receptacle, we devised a base for the 'LING' at the bottom to collect the liquids, which was later interpreted by us as 'Jaladhari' or 'holder of water'.
As Bhakti DETERIORATED FURTHER, and we became MORE BODY-CONSCIOUS, we began to CONSIDER the straight 'LING' as the MALE PROCREATIVE ORGAN, and the 'Jaladhari' or 'receptacle at the base', as the FEMALE PROCREATIVE ORGAN, and considered this as the UNION of MALE and FEMALE in remembrance of Shiv, for fruitful and benevolent procreation.

LATER on, it was realized by some of us, with subtler intellects, that the 'LING' and the 'Jaladhari' ONLY represented the MALE and FEMALE PROCREATIVE ORGANS, or the MALE and FEMALE PHYSICAL BODIES in UNION, as considered by us, and actual remembrance of Shiv was not being represented; so we then placed a WHITE DOT on top of the 'LING' to represent Shiv as the 'INCORPOREAL POINT' of spiritual white light, on which we could FOCUS our attention during the worship. We NEEDED something PHYSICAL to represent Shiv, since we considered ourselves to be something PHYSICAL! Those of us with GROSS intellects, worshiped the 'LING' as a whole, while those of us with LESS GROSS intellects tried to FOCUS only on the WHITE DOT on top of the 'LING'.

LATER on, some of us, with still more subtler intellects, recollected that Shiv had performed THREE ACTS in the very beginning of creation of Humanity - REGENERATION of GOOD, DESTRUCTION of EVIL and SUSTENANCE of GOOD - and so we placed THREE WHITE LINES, below or across the WHITE DOT on top of the 'LING', to represent the THREE BENEVOLENT ACTS of Shiv.
So this then, in EFFECT, represented the benevolent UNION of MALE and FEMALE, in remembrance of Shiv, who had performed THREE BENEVOLENT ACTS for Humankind.
In the PUREST, UNADULTERATED sense, the ENTIRE 'LING' ACTUALLY REPRESENTS a SINGLE embodied soul, who has BOTH MALE and FEMALE Sanskars in a PERFECTLY BALANCED form, at the VERY END of Sangam Yug (shown as straight 'LING' and 'Jaladhari' in PERFECT, PERPETUAL UNION), and who is AWARE of himself/herself as a soul, in PERPETUAL UNION or CONSTANT REMEMBRANCE of the Supreme Soul, Shiv (shown as a WHITE DOT on top of the 'LING'), and who is also constantly AWARE of the THREE BENEVOLENT ACTS of Shiv (shown as THREE WHITE LINES below or across the WHITE DOT on top of the 'LING').

LATER on, as Bhakti became MORE CORRUPTED and DETERIORATED, we mixed up 'Shankar', (representing ONLY ONE of the ACTS of Shiv - DESTRUCTION of EVIL - which was considered by us to be the HIGHEST ACT of Shiv, since WITHOUT DESTRUCTION of EVIL, the REGENERATED GOOD could NOT be SUSTAINED) with Shiv; and began to represent the already 'DEVOLVED' Shiv 'LING', in the Ardhnarishwari form of 'Shankar', showing same as HALF MALE and HALF FEMALE, with a WHITE DOT and THREE WHITE LINES on the forehead, since we could MORE READILY RELATE to a human bodily form, since we ourselves CONSIDERED ourselves to be human bodily beings!

In the PUREST, UNADULTERATED sense, the Ardhnarishwari form ACTUALLY REPRESENTS a SINGLE embodied soul, who has BOTH MALE and FEMALE Sanskars in a PERFECTLY BALANCED form, at the VERY END of Sangam Yug (shown as HALF MALE and HALF FEMALE 'bodies'), and who is AWARE of himself/herself as a soul, in PERPETUAL UNION or CONSTANT REMEMBRANCE of the Supreme Soul, Shiv (shown as a WHITE DOT in the center of the forehead), and who is also AWARE of the THREE BENEVOLENT ACTS of Shiv (shown as THREE WHITE LINES below or across the WHITE DOT in the center of the forehead).

The image of the head of a female with a fountain emerging from the mouth, (shown on top of the tresses of the head of 'Shankar'), represents the EFFECTIVE propagation of the rather 'COMPLICATED', PURE Knowledge of Shiv, CHIEFLY by Brahma Kumaris or souls in female bodies, in Sangam Yug, since Shiv keeps the Mothers and Sisters always in the FRONT. The 'Serpent' shown on top of the head of Ardhnarishwari form represents the conquest of EVIL afforded by Shiv to the human soul. The New Moon shown on the head of 'Shankar' represents the WANING and WAXING stages of the human soul on the path to PERFECTION, and the round HALO around the head of 'Shankar' represents the SUN or STABLE 'FULL-MOON' CONDITION of the soul, on reaching the stage of PERFECTION!

Further to this, there are MANY MORE, MORE CORRUPTED and DEGRADED INTERPRETATIONS, as Bhakti DETERIORATES with the passage of time! So you NEED to DECIDE what EXACTLY you want?

Regarding Brahma being your 'bari ma' or 'senior mother', please see post below and give your views:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1217&start=390#p49129

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by shivsena » 07 Jun 2015

Abhimanyu wrote: The personality ShivBaba(Veerendra Dev Dixit) is in actual Ardhnareshwar because soul of both male(Veerendra Dev Dixit) and female(Lekhraj Kirpalani) is present in him.

Whereas Lekhraj Kirpalani is Brahma(Brahm + ma). Brahm means big and ma means mother. So he is the biggest mother. Thus the souls of biggest Father and biggest mother is present in Veerendra Dev Dixit due which he is Ardhnareshwar. It is this remembrance which has continued in the path of Bhakti.
Abhimanyu Bhai......IF Brahma-Lekhraj Kirpalani represents Badi Maa jagdamba in ardh-nari-ishwar Bhakti-picture, then who is jagdamba mounted alone on a lion (sheron wali Maa) ??
ARDHANARiSHWARA.jpg
ARDHANARiSHWARA.jpg (27.59 KiB) Viewed 1913 times
sheron wali maa.jpg
sheron wali maa.jpg (38.39 KiB) Viewed 1913 times

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arjun
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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 07 Jun 2015

khemkaran wrote:I repeat AGAIN - If you churn The PURE Knowledge from Shiv on the basis of TAMOPRADHAN (CORRUPTED, ADULTERATED & DEGRADED) INTERPRETATIONS of the path of Bhakti, that would LEAD you ONLY to the TAMOPRADHAN essence of Godly Knowledge; or PURE Knowledge from Shiv, which has been CORRUPTED, ADULTERATED & DEGRADED with the Mayavimat, Kumat, Manmat and Parmat of BODILY BEINGS, over a period of Time in Sangam Yug, is it NOT? So you NEED to DECIDE what EXACTLY you want?
khemkaran Bhai, thanks for sharing your churning with us. Prima-facie your churning seems to be a result of study of advance knowledge as propagated by the PBKs.

As regards the Shivling being the memorial of just the incorporeal point of light, I do not agree with you because the ling does not represent just the incorporeal Father but also the corporeal Father Prajapita Brahma who is revealed to the world in an incorporeal stage (of Shankar) in the end. Some see Shiv within Shankar and some are able to see only Shankar in an incorporeal stage. That is why they mix up Shiv and Shankar. Shankar is always shown in tapasya or Yaad. And Yaad (remembrance) is not an action. Actions are performed through the hands and legs when the body moves. If you remove the hands and legs from a body, whatever remains is in the shape of a ling only. So, the ling represents the incorporeal Father Shiv within Shankar who is in an incorporeal stage. This is the churning of the PBKs.
It is upto you to accept or reject the same.
shivsena wrote:IF Brahma-Lekhraj Kirpalani represents Badi Maa jagdamba in ardh-nari-ishwar Bhakti-picture, then who is jagdamba mounted alone on a lion (sheron wali Maa) ??
Jagdamba represents the soul of Brahma-Lekhraj Kirpalani through the body of Jagdamba (Kamala Devi).

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