Questions for PBKs

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by fluffy bunny » 25 Sep 2012

mbbhat wrote:By proving Sevakram was partner of DL is not enough. PBKs need to prove his age. And- that he was in Yagya from 1936 till 1947 and the other two Sisters/mothers whom they claim.
Why 1936? The whole 1936 "Shivoham, Shivoham ..." story is made up. There was no mention of Shiva in 1936 ... not until around 1950.

It's more likely they had already left by 1936 then Lekhraj Kirpalani took over playing Krishna with all his melodramas.

The BKWSU could help resolve all this in an instant. The inner circles knows far more than they tell and is making it difficult for anyone to find out the truth. They have lied and falsified for decades. Why should anyone respect them and have to do anything for them at all?

No, problem Roy. You were just quoting something from someone else ... the typically inaccurate BKWSU.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Roy » 25 Sep 2012

This is the beauty of the internet... together we can eventually come to the truth in all of this. Each of us is wittingly or unwittingly playing a role in this. I am grateful for the contributions of all souls on this and other forums.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 26 Sep 2012

mbbhat wrote:The word- "as long as" - is purposefully added. And the word "WE" is removed.

Why cannot PBKs add brackets where they put their words additionally?
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Actually, one can argue that this Murli point may be valid up to 1969. But, when the word - "as long as" is added, then his weightage on argument decreases.
Whether the Murli point quoted by mbbhat Bhai is translated as 'we' or 'as long as' the interpretation does not change drastically. The Murli point says that when the PBKs are here, Prajapita Brahma should also be here. How can it be valid only upto 1969 when the BKs/PBKs exist even after that date?

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 26 Sep 2012

Om Shanti. As regards any mistakes in translation of Murli points by the PBKs is concerned, I have already stated that in the beginning of the Advance Party there were no computers and very limited human resources. The literature was produced only in Hindi by individual PBKs and Baba did not have time to verify each book individually. Advance Party started officially in 1982, a handful of BK sisters surrendered in 1989 and even among them there were hardly any English knowing surrendered PBK sister till mid nineties. The English translation of literature started in 1990s. And when the Hindi versions of the books themselves has mistakes, then one can understand that there could be mistakes in the English versions as well. Unlike BKWSU where nobody cares about large scale cutting and editing of Murlis, mistakes in Murli points were regularly pointed out to Baba by the PBKs. And when there were adequate number of PBK sisters who could cross verify the old and new Hindi and English literature, this work was undertaken by AIVV and it is still going on. As and when the final corrected versions of the literature are prepared, they are uploaded on the official website.

But just by pointing out a few minor mistakes (of one or two words) here and there, mbbhat is trying to discredit AIVV, while he remains mute to the large scale cutting and editing of Murlis by BKWSU which is not even ready to upload the official versions of the Murlis on their website. This only shows that his views are prejudiced and his aim is only to defame the AIVV and not to know the truth.

OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by mbbhat » 26 Sep 2012

fluffy bunny wrote:Why 1936? The whole 1936 "Shivoham, Shivoham ..." story is made up. There was no mention of Shiva in 1936 ... not until around 1950.
It is unfortunate to see its LLU (Low Level Understanding) .

This topic is- "Questions for PBKs" and not "Questions for BKs".

And i have already replied to this question as per my churning in another thread.
It's more likely they had already left by 1936 then Lekhraj Kirpalani took over playing Krishna with all his melodramas.
Very good. Do PBKs agree with you? Or at least do you have confidence that PBKs will agree with you? And why no such mentioning of them in lowkik people reports?*
The BKWSU could help resolve all this in an instant. The inner circles knows far more than they tell and is making it difficult for anyone to find out the truth. They have lied and falsified for decades. Why should anyone respect them and have to do anything for them at all?
Again off topic. I am not asking any respect from you. Very silly arguments.
No, problem Roy. You were just quoting something from someone else ... the typically inaccurate BKWSU.
Good to know one who does not believe in pbk philosophy , but supporting PBKs even in this case. Probably- there is some FUD (Fear, Uncertainity and Doubt) and hence the inner feelings- "Oh - PBKs should not fail" (or even if they fail, it is not so. It is because of BKWSU). One one hand, FB says Murlis are wrong, on the other hand, supports who believe in Murlis (PBKs), and when they fail, then the mistake is put on BKWSU.

Good judgement and discrimination power!

That is why even though there is 100% wrong in understanding the Murli point, it is "no problem" for such a truth seeker.

Good. This shows in what truth they soul really interested.
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*A truth seeker is ready to assume any lie to get support from PBKs.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by mbbhat » 26 Sep 2012

How can it be valid only upto 1969 when the BKs/PBKs exist even after that date
Because Baba has said- "the old points will not come into use".

Already replied here- http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2111
arjun wrote:Om Shanti. As regards any mistakes in translation of Murli points by the PBKs is concerned, I have already stated that in the beginning of the Advance Party there were no computers and very limited human resources. The literature was produced only in Hindi by individual PBKs and Baba did not have time to verify each book individually. Advance Party started officially in 1982, a handful of BK Sisters surrendered in 1989 and even among them there were hardly any English knowing surrendered PBK Sister till mid nineties. The English translation of literature started in 1990s. And when the Hindi versions of the books themselves has mistakes, then one can understand that there could be mistakes in the English versions as well. Unlike BKWSU where nobody cares about large scale cutting and editing of Murlis, mistakes in Murli points were regularly pointed out to Baba by the PBKs. And when there were adequate number of PBK Sisters who could cross verify the old and new Hindi and English literature, this work was undertaken by AIVV and it is still going on. As and when the final corrected versions of the literature are prepared, they are uploaded on the official website.

But just by pointing out a few minor mistakes (of one or two words) here and there, mbbhat is trying to discredit AIVV, while he remains mute to the large scale cutting and editing of Murlis by BKWSU which is not even ready to upload the official versions of the Murlis on their website. This only shows that his views are prejudiced and his aim is only to defame the AIVV and not to know the truth.
Great to know this attitude of PBKs. The Murli point which was being addressed here- "SM 10-7-82" - the meaning of Hindi words were changed purposefully. I have also given a few more examples.

And arjun soul is saying- as if the mistakes had already been in the Hindi version of this Murli point.

When they do such mistakes deliberately- do they have right to accuse others either to cutting the Murli points or not providing them?


On the one hand - PBKs say- Shrimat is in the level of administration/organization and dharna is in the individual level. But, here we can see - violation of srimath due to highly mis interpretation of Murli points. And if roy soul accepts that- it is his mistakes- even then according to PBKs, it is violation of srimath, because it is as good as their Chariot not bothered or not being strict about their children misusing Murli points. One of the greatest mistakes.

If Baba could not get time, then is it right to give permission to others to make it public?

OK- you may accuse me personally that- I am prejudice, etc.

In fact, all the accusations rebound back to the other side and it becomes clear to what extent they are interested in truth.
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If PBKs feel they had great difficulty, they did not have computers, etc, then they should also understand how much difficulty BKWSU also have passed through its stages from the beginning, beggary part- and how much service activities they are doing , etc.

Also- there was no computers even in BKWSU in the beginning. Some BKs have hand written them. So- there could be some errors. Now, how to rectify them? It is impossible. Also- lots of Murlis are already destroyed or buried. Only five years Murli is left. Then ShivBaba of PBKs should find some other alternative, is it not? rather than sticking to those which can neither be 100% accurate nor complete.

And, if BKWSU cuts Murlis, it is up to them. Only BKs have right to accuse or question. If it is a great mistake, then Avyakt BapDada is there to warn them. PBKs accuse BKWSU as if Murli is their birth right but criticize BKWSU as kouravas.

PBKs say- all service activities of BKWSU and dharna etc are cowardice. But, still depend on Murlis of such a third class organization!
----------------------
OK, let us agree that Murli cutting has created a loss.

Now,

1)What is the loss to BKs there? Does the new smaller Murli creates any hindrance to BKs in putting effort for self progress or service activities? If yes, how much?

2)Or is it a loss to PBKs to do their service to BKs? If yes, how much?

3) How much loss is there for PBKs in doing their self effort?
--------------
Can PBKs say- what is the yaadgaar of the "Murli cutting by BKs" and "failure of their ShivBaba in recognizing them" in Bhaktimarg?

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 26 Sep 2012

Om Shanti. Whatever mbbhat Bhai has stated above is nothing new. The same old arguements of an egotistic person.
There is a Murli point which is very much relevant in this situation:
“बाप के हाथ में है – किसको चाहे साहूकार बनाये, चाहे गरीब बनाये। बाप कहते हैं जो साहूकार हैं उन्हों को गरीब जरूर बनना है, बनेंगे ही। उन्हों का पार्ट ही ऐसा है। वह कभी ठहर न सकें। धनवान को अहंकार भी बहुत रहता है ना – मैं फलाना हूँ, यह-यह हमको है। घमण्ड तोड़ने लिए बाबा कहते हैं – यह जब आयेंगे देने के लिए तो बाबा कहेंगे दरकार नहीं है। यह अपने पास रखो। जब जरूरत होगी तो फिर ले लेंगे क्योंकि देखते हैं – काम का नहीं है, अपना घमण्ड है। तो यह सब बाबा के हाथ में है ना – लेना वा न लेना। बाबा पैसे क्या करेंगे, दरकार नहीं। यह तो तुम बच्चों के लिए मकान बन रहे हैं, आकरके बाबा से मिलकर ही जाना है। सदैव तो रहना नहीं है। पैसे की क्या दरकार रहेगी। कोई लश्कर वा तोपें आदि तो नहीं चाहिए।“(ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक 02.11.09, पृ. 3)

“It is upto the Father whom He wishes to make rich and whom He wishes to make poor. The Father says – Those who are rich will have to definitely become poor. They will certainly become [poor]. Their part (role) itself is such. They can never stay on [in the path of knowledge]. The rich feel very egotistic, don’t they? I am such and such person. I possess this and this. In order to break their ego Baba says – When these people come to give, Baba will say – There is no need. Keep it with yourself. We will take when we need because it is observed – this person is not useful; he is egotistic. So, everything is in the hands of Baba, whether to take or not to take, isn’’t it? What will Baba do with money? There is no need. These buildings are being built for you children; you have to come, meet Baba and go. You don’t have to stay permanently. Will there be any need for money? No army or guns etc are needed.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 02.11.09, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

The BKs may interpret it to be physical money, but in a metaphorical sense it also refers to the ego of knowledge.
If anyone wishes to remain egotistic and deny Murlis to God's children, they are free to do so.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Roy » 26 Sep 2012

Nice Murli point Arjun Bhai; and like much of the Sakar Murlis, they can be taken at face value... that is, in a more limited sense... or looked at with an unlimited attitude, to reveal a deeper meaning behind them

What i find interesting about mbbhat Bhai's responses, is that he has completely ignored my acknowledgement of the mistakes in presentation and interpretation in the points he has mentioned, and the fact i welcome his attitude about this; and continues to shout foul. Had i tried to avoid the truth about these mistakes then this would be understandable. He is also unwilling to address the truth that the points collectively, clearly point at; and hides behind his false stance that all Murli points presented by PBKs or their supporters are false, which they definately are not. Arjun Bhai is particularly careful about his presentation of Murli points and their origin, and he is also an excellent translator. There will at times be errors, and correction will be made when these are discovered. However, there aren't great chunks being cut out Murlis by PBKs, or the hording of valuable Murlis, that clearly takes place in the BK Yagya.

If mbbhat wishes to get to the truth, let him address the points i have presented as a whole... not simply attack the genuine mistakes that have been made, that in reality do not detract from the truth these points reveal, when pieced together.

Roy

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by mbbhat » 26 Sep 2012

thanks to all

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 27 Sep 2012

Roy Bhai,
Om Shanti. It is really unfortunate that mbbhat Bhai has never acknowledged large scale cutting and edition of Murlis by BKWSU, while attacking the PBKs for minor mistakes that may have occured inadvertently and not deliberately as he is claiming.

It is very clear for anyone to see that PBKs have been presenting the extracts of discussion CDs, Murli clarifications and extracts of BK Murlis on this forum since many years. And mbbhat Bhai has not been able to point out any mistake in translation in these materials. The PBKs have painstakingly tried to cover each and every word spoken in a recorded in VCDs, whether it has been spoken by Baba or by any PBK. While it is a fact that in almost none of the Sakar Murlis published by BKWSU, the words spoken by BKs sitting in front of Brahma Baba have been covered. Even the words/sentences spoken by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba have been cut or modified by them not just after the advent of PBKs but even before that.

When I see his behaviour and the attitude of BKWSU, I am reminded of the Mahabharata epic, where the Kauravas, despite the best effort by the Pandavas and even Krishna till the last moment to avoid the war, the Kauravas were not ready to part with even an inch of land (from which they were banished in a dubious manner).

Anyways, he is free to continue with his adamancy in supporting the editing of Murlis by BKWSU and denial of original Murlis to the genuine seekers.

OGS,
Arjun


“यह भी बच्चे जानते हैं – यादव-कौरव बहुत हैं। पाण्डव बहुत थोड़े हैं। गाया भी जाता है राम गयो, रावण गयो....जिनकी बहुत सम्प्रदाय है। राम की सम्प्रदाय पाण्डव बहुत थोड़े हैं। यह है पाण्डव गवर्मेन्ट, श्रीमत पर चलने वाले। यह जैसे भगवान की गवर्मेन्ट है। परन्तु है गुप्त। तुम जानते हो हम श्रीमत पर चल भारत का बेड़ा पार कर रहे हैं। जो श्रीमत पर चलते हैं वे अपना बेड़ा पार करते हैं। यादव और कौरवों के पास कितने महल हैं। तुम बच्चों को कुछ भी नहीं। तीन पैर पृथ्वी के भी तुम्हारे नहीं। सब उन्हों का है। यह भी गाया हुआ है, जिनको तीन पैर पृथ्वी के नहीं मिलते थे उन्हों की विजय हुई और वह विश्व के मालिक बन गये।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक ०१.०५.०८, पृ. १)

“Children also know that – there are a lot of Yadavas and Kauravas. Pandavas are very few. It is also sung – Ram gayo, Ravan gayo (Ram departed, Ravan departed),... who had a big community. Ram’s community, i.e. the Pandavas are very few. This is a Pandava Government, those who follow the Shrimat. This is like God’s government. But it is incognito. You know that we follow Shrimat and are taking the ship of India across. Those who follow the Shrimat take their ship across. Yadavas and Kauravas have so many palaces. You children do not have any. You don’t even have three feet of land. Everything belongs to them. It is also sung that those who were not getting three feet land became victorious and they became the masters of the world.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 01.05.08, pg 1 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by mbbhat » 27 Sep 2012

But, here- the pandavas (PBKs) need the Murli of kouravas (BKs)! And believe the panadavs with the help of kouravas (2.25 lakh from each side) create heaven. and even in Vijaya mala, half if kouravas.

in which epic or Bhaktimarg, such yaadgaar is there?

So- PBKs always take half knowledge. Hence it is likely to be dangerous, is it not?

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by shivsena » 27 Sep 2012

arjun wrote: Those who follow the Shrimat take their ship across. Yadavas and Kauravas have so many palaces. You children do not have any. You don’t even have three feet of land. Everything belongs to them. It is also sung that those who were not getting three feet land became victorious and they became the masters of the world.”
Who are these pandav who do not have 3 feet of land and become masters of the world...BKs-PBKs have more than 3 feet of land.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Roy » 27 Sep 2012

What does it mean mbbhat Bhai, when you say the PBKs take half knowledge?... Where has the deeper analysis of Gyan started from?... certainly not the BK Yagya, where all one witnesses these days, is more and more Bhakti taking place. You've visited facebook, you can see how BKs are for the most part. They have no interest in understanding Gyan at a deeper level, and just share points from heavily edited Murlis, or Dadis classes, and love their pretty pictures, which contain little or no Gyan. Churning of Gyan has no place for the most part in the BK Yagya, but is the lifeblood of the PBK Yagya. You may have many Murlis mbbhat Bhai, but they don't appear to be helping you see things clearly... Maybe that's because you don't have the correct attitude when it comes to distributing your wealth.

You do however make an interersting point about the marriage of the two kingdoms, although it is not a marriage of Pandavas and Kauravas, as the souls of the Moon Dynasty who recognise Ram ShivBaba, and follow Radhe-Sita to Him, can no longer be called Kauravas, once they have this recognition and act accordingly. The symbol of this marriage is Vishnu of course, as it is the marriage of Confluence Age Radhe-Krishna, that Vishnu represents... the harmony between the souls that come from both the Moon and Sun Dynasty Kingdoms of the Confluence Age.

“So, Vaikunth or heaven(ramraj) existed here itself (in the Confluence Age). Krishna(Prajapita-Ram) was also present here itself (in the Confluence Age). Radhey and Krishna were not brother and sister (here in the Confluence Age). Both were separate and in their own kingdoms (in the Confluence Age - i.e. the Sun Dynasty Kingdom of Confluence Age Krishna, and the Moon Dynasty Kingdom of Confluence Age Radhey)." [Mu 21.07.08]

"When the queen bee(Radhe aka Sita) of honeybees(225,000 Moon Dynasty Kingdom souls) flies (to Ram ShivBaba upon recognising HIm); then all the bees run behind it." [Mu 05.08.05]

“People do not know as to what is the connection between Lakshmi-Narayan and Radha-Krishna. She (Confluence Age Radhe) is a Princess, and he (Confluence Age Krishna) is a Prince belonging to different kingdoms. It is not as if they are siblings. She(Radhe) was in her own kingdom and Krishna was a Prince in his kingdom. When they get married, they become Lakshmi-Narayan (of the Confluence Age).” [Mu 10.10.08]

"There was one kingdom and one language in the Golden Age, which is being established again now." [Mu 26.07.05]

"In the Golden Age, you were brother-sisters. There was no other relation(no marriages)." [Mu 04.05.74]

"Actually, Radhe-Krishna(of the Golden Age) are Prince-Princess... they are siblings. He(Krishna Brahma Baba) cannot be called Radha's(Mama Saraswati's) husband." [Mu 10.12.72]


Roy

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Sep 2012

Roy wrote:What i find interesting about mbbhat Bhai's responses, is that he has completely ignored my acknowledgement of the mistakes in presentation and interpretation in the points he has mentioned, and the fact i welcome his attitude about this; and continues to shout foul.
The BKs don't have 'understanding'. They only have 'acceptance via repetition'.

He does not want answers or to understand, understanding is beyond their level. What he is doing is trying to establish in your minds doubts, confusion and negativity by constantly repeating it.

He is playing the role of an advocate defending a guilty party.

He knows he cannot defend his client, so he is trying to seed doubts and negativity to create confusion in people's minds to lower the opposition's position.

Must of the BKs process of encultation happens at this level. They lead people along false or illogical paths until they in a state of confusion and doubt, and then once they in fear, uncertainty or doubt (FUD) offer them their simplistic salvation.

For me, it is a very second class way of behaving.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Roy » 27 Sep 2012

I totally agree with your analysis fluffy Bhai.

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