Swarg ke rachieta

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andrey
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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by andrey » 29 Dec 2008

It is also said that the knowledge passes through stages, sato, rajo tamo, because the one through whose mouth the knowledge comes passes through stages.

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shivsena
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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by shivsena » 30 Dec 2008

Does PBKs believe that Rudra souls will get masculine personality? If yes, then obviously Rudrani must not be a Rudra bead as the word 'Rudrani' is a feminine word. Advanced Knowledge lebels RudraMala & VijayMala souls respectively as male & female; is this not the subtle shooting of gender-inequality ??
Dear brother.

I do not recollect having read the word 'rudrani' in Murlis anytime; if you have any Murli point which has the word 'rudrani' then we can think about the gender-inequality.

shivsena.

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by john » 30 Dec 2008

andrey wrote:It is also said that The Knowledge passes through stages, sato, rajo tamo, because the one through whose mouth The Knowledge comes passes through stages.
Where does it say this?

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by shivsena » 31 Dec 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

Murli 22-11-99, says "Kahan Krishna-bhagwanuvach aur kahan Shiv-bhagwanuvach; Dono mein raat-din ka farak hai."

I was just wondering why BKs and PBKs think about Krishna-bhagwanuvach as Bhakti-marg Gita of last 2500 years, when there is no Krishna present in the broad drama. The Bhakti-marg Gita has been only wrongly labelled as Krishna's Gita by the ancient rishi-muni who made the scripture in the beginning of dwapuryug; since Krishna was not present in last 2500 years, then Bhakti-marg Gita cannot be considered as Krishna-bhagwanuvach. The terms 'Krishna-bhagwanuvach' and 'shiv-bhagwanuvach' are applicable only to the behad ka drama and we have to churn and find out when these two are spoken with reference to Sangamyugi drama only.

shivsena.

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by andrey » 02 Jan 2009

Where does it say this?
I don't know if it is in any Murli. Many points Baba says are in the Murlis and many are new. In the Murlis it is said that knowledge used to be different in the beginning and changes and will get refined. It seems to be the contrary to this point, that refined knowledge will be more subtle more pure, more refined, because new students that arise are more smart and need new points. So new points are needed. But maybe these new points are not as good as the old ones as the new students are not as good as the old ones.

If we see also in the history, first there are the Piu Vanis that it is said used to be very powerful and they are not available. Then if we also see the letters from earlier periods, there used to be more enthusiasm and they used to be powerul. no one will write this today. Nowadays the teachers have to adapt to the situation, that is how various new inventions in the knowledge come. They may reach more public, but don't create heirs. If we also see the vcds older are more powerful. Everything passes through the four stages, even the Rudra Gyan Yagya.

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by shivsena » 02 Jan 2009

andrey wrote: Everything passes through the four stages, even the Rudra Gyan Yagya.
Murli says: " Bhakti se hoti hai durgati and Gyan se hoti hai sadgati" and you say that rudra-Gyan Yagya also passes through 4 stages. I cannot understand how any Yagya started by Rudra God ShivBaba can also pass through 4 stages and lead souls to durgati. It is most surprising to note how Murli points are convienently ignored by PBKs, who do not hesitate to give their own manmat, just to justify the girti-kalaa of the pbk family.

shivsena.

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by andrey » 02 Jan 2009

Then who created the Yagya? Was it not Shiv? You even believe the Murlis are spoken by Shiv. Problem is somewhere in your mind. It is you only who give your own churning and manmat. I tell whatever i have studied. If i also add some own churnings to this these can always be verified, whilst for you there is no higher authority than your own self or future God. This way whatever you tell cannot be verified.

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by john » 02 Jan 2009

Andrey

It will be good if you can find the relevant Murli points.
I can see how knowledge can become degraded with Murlis being edited and cut or how the understanding of Murli can become degraded.

What confuses me is the reference to the Chariot becoming degraded therefore the Knowledge from his mouth does?
In this case how can it be knowledge of ShivBaba? It must be knowledge from the Chariot.

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by shivsena » 02 Jan 2009

What confuses me is the reference to the Chariot becoming degraded therefore The Knowledge from his mouth does? in tIhis case how can it be knowledge of ShivBaba? It must be knowledge from the Chariot.
Dear john Bhai.

That is exactly what is want to convey to PBKs, that any knowledge which passes through 4 stages cannot be knowledge from all-knowledgeable, all-powerful God ShivBaba(whether basic or advance). It has to be from the mouth of the Chariot himself and it is Krishna who is in charge of the present Chariot (not Ram or shiv); The day Ram+shiv become combined as Ramshivbaba, then only true Gita knowledge will come and those who hear that knowledge will attain sadgati.

It was nise to hear from you after a long time.
shivsena.

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by andrey » 04 Jan 2009

I don't know the answer. Could be that it is because this knowledge is for us the souls who pass through stages. If it were that shiv could uplift us for a secons and we are maning effort for so long, so it is not Shiv uplifting, it is not so. It is said in the Murli that it requires effort and that all points cannot be given at once. Initially also we are very happy with one point then we are not happy with many. It is said in the Murli that the first and the last lesson is one and the same - Om Shanti.

There was also mentioned somewhere else about the Ascending Ladder. I have heard this mentioned in one VCD that it is the Ladder of our thoughts, like subtle thinking about points of knowledge is higher than mundane thinking and nirakari stage is even higher than this. When whilst ascending this ladder we reach point where we stop thinking about many there is no sin anymore.

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by shivsena » 20 Jan 2009

Dear arjun Bhai.

It is said in Murlis many times: "Brahma Saraswati hi Lakshmi-Narayan bante hain".
Can you please elaborate on who are these 2 souls who become Lakshmi-Narayan ??

shivsena

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arjun
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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by arjun » 20 Jan 2009

shivsena wrote:It is said in Murlis many times: "Brahma Saraswati hi Lakshmi-Narayan bante hain".
Can you please elaborate on who are these 2 souls who become Lakshmi-Narayan ??
Brahma Saraswati (i.e. Dada Lekhraj and Om Radhey Mama) become Golden Aged Lakshmi-Narayan and not the Confluence-Aged Lakshmi-Narayan.

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by shivsena » 20 Jan 2009

arjun wrote: Brahma Saraswati (i.e. Dada Lekhraj and Om Radhey Mama) become Golden Aged Lakshmi-Narayan and not the Confluence-Aged Lakshmi-Narayan.
I do not understand how the naked Deities of Golden Age will be recognised as Lakshmi-Narayan and who will call them as such,(when in fact it will be very hard to distinguish between a male and female in Golden Age). Also are the Deities aware of themselves as Deities and are the Golden Aged Deities worshipped in Bhakti-marg ??

And who becomes confluence-age Lakshmi-Narayan??
Also how does one decide when Shiva is talking about Golden Aged Lakshmi-Narayan and when is He talking about the Sangamyugi Lakshmi-Narayan.(because these prefix are never mentioned in any Murlis) ; they are just advance knowledge teaching.

shivsena

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by arjun » 20 Jan 2009

I do not understand how the naked Deities of Golden Age will be recognised as Lakshmi-Narayan and who will call them as such,(when in fact it will be very hard to distinguish between a male and female in Golden Age).
They will just be titleholders.
Also are the Deities aware of themselves as Deities and are the Golden Aged Deities worshipped in Bhakti-marg ??
No.
And who becomes confluence-age Lakshmi-Narayan??
Prajapita Brahma and the head of vijaymala.
Also how does one decide when Shiva is talking about Golden Aged Lakshmi-Narayan and when is He talking about the Sangamyugi Lakshmi-Narayan.(because these prefix are never mentioned in any Murlis) ; they are just Advanced Knowledge teaching.
The word 'Sangamyugi' (Confluence-Aged) is not an invention of advanced knowledge but mentioned often in the Sakar Murlis published by the BKs, although I agree that it may not have been used with the words 'Lakshmi-Narayan' in the Sakar Murlis.

Shiva Himself tells us how to differentiate between the Confluenc-aged L-N and Golden Aged L-N through His current corporeal medium.

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Re: Swarg ke rachieta

Post by shivsena » 24 Jan 2009

arjun wrote: They will just be titleholders.
Again this ''titleholder" word is used only in advance knowledge and never in Murlis. Also i do not see why Shiva should talk about titleholders of Satyug and not the original Lakshmi-Narayan which are revealed in front of 600 crore souls. Also if the Deities of Golden Age are not worship-worthy then why talk about them in the Murlis.
Prajapita Brahma and the head of vijaymala.
How can the head of vijaymala be Lakshmi when she is less knowledgeable than Mama Saraswati and mummy kamla devi ???? and she has never taken any responsibility of the Yagya.
The word 'Sangamyugi' (Confluence-Aged) is not an invention of advanced knowledge but mentioned often in the Sakar Murlis published by the BKs, although I agree that it may not have been used with the words 'Lakshmi-Narayan' in the Sakar Murlis.
Can you please show me one Murli where the word ''Sangamyugi'' is ever mentioned in Murlis anytime for any personality. The word Sangamyugi has never never been prefixed in front of either Krishna or Narayan.
Shiva Himself tells us how to differentiate between the Confluenc-aged L-N and Golden Aged L-N through His current corporeal medium.
I think you mean to say that Baba Dixit has taught to differentiate between the two, because Shiva would never say one thing in Murlis and teach something else in his clarifications. ( which again means that advance knowledge is Krishna ki jhooti Gita, contradicting all Murli points)
shivsena.

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