Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

To discuss the BK and PBK versions relating to the progressive differential development of BK & PBK ideologies or theologies.
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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Jun 2015

BTW Arjun.

I have just noticed that I have also had my 'historical' moderator rights removed ... not that I really used them except to help the forum when it had technical difficulties.


I once renamed this topic because it has nothing to do with the Yagya's history.

Nothing more. I've never cautioned anyone either.

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S S S TEACHES as 'Father, Teacher & Guru' through BB-DLR !

Post by Golden Heart » 09 Jun 2015

Sweetest, Beloved Golden Hearts,
PBKIVV Rev SM dated 18.05.2015 wrote: प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा तो अब आया है, यह है प्रजापिता। बाप बैठ समझाते हैं कि सारी दुनिया पतित है तो जरूर यह भी बहुत जन्मों के अन्त में पतित ठहरे।
Prajapita Brahma has NOW come, THIS ONE (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) is PRAJAPITA. The Father (S S S) sits HERE (in His ‘mukrar-rath’, BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani - PRAJAPITA) and EXPLAINS that the WHOLE WORLD is impure. Therefore, this one (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani), too, has become impure, at the end of his many births.
( NO DOUBT, WHATSOEVER, as to who is REAL PRAJAPITA ! )
( Most ‘maha-murkh’ PBKs, in particular – ‘Kaput’ or Unrighteous children - would, of course, continue to be DELUDED & ‘ENCHANTED’ with their FALSE ‘Prajapita’, ‘maha-murkh’ V D D, since it is their PERSONAL CHOICE & DESIRE TO DO SO, PERFECTLY in ACCORDANCE with their INCLINATON towards their PRE-ORDAINED DESTINATION – sovereignty in ‘g a’ and ‘s a’ of C A of Ravan Rajya, in Maya’s or Ravan’s ‘paradise’)!

हम तो बाबा के बच्चे मालिक हैं। ब्रह्माण्ड का भी मालिक बच्चों को बनाते हैं। कहते हैं तुमको राज्य-भाग्य देता हूँ। ऐसा बाबा कभी देखा? उस बाप को पूरा याद करना है। उनको तुम इन आंखों से नहीं देख सकते। उनसे योग लगाना है।
We are Baba's Children, the Masters. I also make You Children into the Masters of Brahmand.
He says: I (S S S) give You (‘Saput’ or Righteous Children) Your FORTUNE of the Kingdom (of SOVEREIGNTY in G A and S A of RamRajya, in Shiv’s or Ram’s PARADISE – THROUGH BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, in ‘Sakar’ until 1969, and in ‘Akar’ to date). Have YOU EVER SEEN such a Baba BEFORE? Such a Father has to be remembered very well (ACCURATELY – UNADULTERATED REMEMBRANCE). You CANNOT SEE Him with your ‘PHYSICAL EYES’ (so the question of remembering him inside any ‘PHYSICAL Chariot’ DOES NOT ARISE AT ALL)!
You have to have Yoga (of the INTELLECT) with Him (S S S ALONE)!

कर्म-अकर्म-विकर्म की गति भी बाबा ने समझाई है। बाप, टीचर, गुरू तीनों से ही शिक्षा मिलती है। अभी बाबा कहते हैं मैं तुमको ऐसी शिक्षा देता हूँ, ऐसे कर्म सिखलाता हूँ जो तुम 21 जन्म सदा सुखी बन जाते हो। टीचर शिक्षा देते हैं ना। गुरू लोग भी पवित्रता की शिक्षा देते हैं अथवा कथायें सुनाते हैं। परन्तु धारणा बिल्कुल नहीं होती।
Baba has explained the philosophy of action, neutral action and sinful actions to you as well.
YOU RECEIVE TEACHINGS FROM ALL THREE: the Father, the Teacher and the Guru (through BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani). Baba (S S S) says: I NOW (through ‘mukrar-rath’of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) give You (‘Saput’ or Righteous Children) such TEACHINGS, and TEACH YOU such actions, that You become ever happy for 21 births. A (worldly) teacher would give teachings, is it not? The (wordly) Gurus (like ‘maha-murkh’ V D D) also teach purity, and tell you ‘stories’ (CORRUPTED clarifications pertaining to Ravan Rajya or the path of DEGRADED Bhakti), but NO INCULCATION TAKES PLACE AT ALL! (The DoGs keep on INCESSANTLY ‘barking like dogs’ with their CORRUPTED, ADULTERATED, INVERTED & Reversed Advance knowledge - ARROGANTLY & UNABASHEDLY DEFAMING & INSULTING GOD CONSTANTLYdisplaying NO EVIDENCE of any ‘REAL’ INCULCATION WHATSOEVER, in their PRACTICAL ACTIONS)!

मम्मा, बाबा और तुम बच्चे, तुमको तो मम्मा-बाबा को फालो करना पड़े, जो उनकी गद्दी पर बैठो। राजा के बच्चे प्रिन्स-प्रिन्सेज कहलाते हैं ना। तुम जानते हो हम भविष्य में प्रिन्स-प्रिन्सेज बनते हैं। ऐसा कोई बाप-टीचर-गुरू होगा जो तुमको ऐसे कर्म सिखलाये! तुम सदाकाल के लिए सुखी बनते हो। यह शिवबाबा का वर है, वह आशीर्वाद करते हैं।
There are only Mama (Om Radhe), Baba (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) and You Children (principal rulers of G A and S A). You have to FOLLOW Mama (Om Radhe) and Baba (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) so that you can claim their throne. The Children of a King are called Princes and Princesses. You Children know that You are to become the future Princes and Princesses. Is there any other Father, Teacher or Guru who could TEACH You such actions? (other than S S S, through His ‘mukrar-rath’, BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani?) You (principal rulers of G A and S A) become happy for ALL TIME. This is a boon from ShivBaba. He (S S S) grants You this blessing (NOW - through His ‘mukrar-rath’, BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani - in ‘Sakar’ until 1969, and in ‘Akar’ to date )!
THOSE WHO HAVE A CLEAR, PURE, DIVINE INTELLECT TO PERCEIVE, LET THEM PERCEIVE !!!

With Eternal, Infinite, Imperishable Divine LOVE . . . In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,
Golden Heart

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Re: S S S TEACHES as 'Father, Teacher & Guru' through BB-DLR

Post by khemkaran » 09 Jun 2015

Om Shanti, Golden Heart,
Most ‘maha-murkh’ PBKs, in particular – ‘Kaput’ or Unrighteous children - would, of course, continue to be DELUDED & ‘ENCHANTED’ with their FALSE ‘Prajapita’, ‘maha-murkh’ V D D
The remembrance of Duplicate Prajapita Brahma (Duplicate Krishna) of Sangamyug has a story on the path of Bhakti Marg also!

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by arjun » 09 Jun 2015

fluffy-bunny wrote:BTW Arjun.

I have just noticed that I have also had my 'historical' moderator rights removed ... not that I really used them except to help the forum when it had technical difficulties.

I once renamed this topic because it has nothing to do with the Yagya's history.

Nothing more. I've never cautioned anyone either.
There is nothing to be surprised by this move. I am ready to face the day when I will be thrown out of this forum by the Admin (shivsena Bhai) one day for raising voices against him.

Just yesterday made a comment in the Commonroom Section under the heading 'interesting topics...." but it was promptly deleted by the Admin without any notice just because I had questioned his moves of restricting the powers of members like us while at the same time posting quotations about truth and other virtues. While he continues to attach photographs from the path of Bhakti to oppose the PBKs, but he has withdrawn the facility from me in all the Sections. Now we cannot bring out the truth of BKs in the form of photographs but only in words. The way he is acting at the behest of the BKs, it would not be surprising if he closes this website one fine day at the behest of the BKs.

He may say that he is funding the website, but does that give him the rights to restrict the powers of other members arbitrarily?

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by arjun » 09 Jun 2015

golden heart wrote:Prajapita Brahma has NOW come, THIS ONE (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani) is PRAJAPITA. The Father (S S S) sits HERE (in His ‘mukrar-rath’, BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani - PRAJAPITA) and EXPLAINS that the WHOLE WORLD is impure.
If Prajapita Brahma has come, where is he? If BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani is Prajapita he should be with the praja (subjects) and not in the Subtle Region.
YOU RECEIVE TEACHINGS FROM ALL THREE: the Father, the Teacher and the Guru (through BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani).
None of the above three roles were played through BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani in reality. Neither did he give inheritance as a Father, nor did he clarify the unexplained versions of Murlis as a teacher nor did he take the children along with him as a Guru.
The DoGs keep on INCESSANTLY ‘barking like dogs’ with their CORRUPTED, ADULTERATED, INVERTED & Reversed Advance knowledge - ARROGANTLY & UNABASHEDLY DEFAMING & INSULTING GOD CONSTANTLY – displaying NO EVIDENCE of any ‘REAL’ INCULCATION WHATSOEVER, in their PRACTICAL ACTIONS)!
Your actions speak louder than the words used by you above. Nobody on this forum is blind to be unable to see who is arrogant and who is not.

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by fluffy bunny » 10 Jun 2015

Strange ... I can imagine why I might be banned for posting in a non-BK manner but I would have thought that I have acted in the past with complete trust on the administration/moderation side and not abused the responsibility.

Basically the only time I have used it is to upgrade the software or fix it when it crashed.

I can only think of one initiative of my own that I took, and that was to rename this topic, "Ideological interpretations of the Yagya" (approx) as it has absolutely nothing to do with the Yagya's History.

Shivsena must have changed it back.

It still has nothing to do with the history.

I have nothing against anyone posting whatever silly or offensive nonsense they want ... if that is how they want to portray themselves to the world ... but it's disrespect to spoil such an important subject (the Yagya's History) and confuse it with such offensive nonsense.

I cannot believe Golden Heart is a BK.

Not even the worse BK I have ever met goes on about anuses etc all the time. Are they just an ex-PBK, or from some other splinter group like the Vishnu Party?

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by karan » 10 Jun 2015

fluffy bunny wrote:I can only think of one initiative of my own that I took, and that was to rename this topic, "Ideological interpretations of the Yagya" (approx) as it has absolutely nothing to do with the Yagya's History.
Some topic titles can be general, for example - 'On the way to Paramdham'. Few more such topics are there on the forum.

Similarly, 'Yagya History' is also a relatively broad topic, which could accommodate a variety of viewpoints, by itself; and when the topic is 'Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History', there can be no limit to the viewpoints involved, particularly when considered from a more subtle perspective.

But, your observation is also right, from your personal viewpoint (if one thinks of it in just a particular way), but need not necessarily be the point of view of all concerned.

So, it depends on how we look at it. And since the topic has been started here by GH himself, others would not be in a position to understand his intentions, maybe he would like all his posts in just one topic.
Not sure, just guessing!

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by khemkaran » 10 Jun 2015

arjun wrote: If Prajapita Brahma has come, where is he? If BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani is Prajapita he should be with the praja (subjects) and not in the Subtle Region.
I am not clear about the EXACT interpretation of Prajapita, in accordance with your views.
According to you, Prajapita means one who is present with the Praja in a corporeal form.
According to you, Prajapita is the title given by Shiv Baba.
According to you, Prajapita can be used for BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani during 1937-1969;
but after 1969, can we use the word Prajapita for BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani or not, is that what you are trying to convey?

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by arjun » 10 Jun 2015

khemkaran wrote: I am not clear about the EXACT interpretation of Prajapita, in accordance with your views.
According to you, Prajapita means one who is present with the Praja in a corporeal form.
According to you, Prajapita is the title given by Shiv Baba.
According to you, Prajapita can be used for BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani during 1937-1969;
but after 1969, can we use the word Prajapita for BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani or not, is that what you are trying to convey?
That is what I am trying to say. He could have been called Prajapita before 1969, but not after that. But when the BK teachers read the above lines of Murlis in the centers they narrate as if Prajapita is practically present. That is wrong. But when the word Brahma and Prajapita has been used extensively in the Murlis then Prajapita should be present in this world when the Brahmins are also present. Just as Shiv entered in BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, He can enter in someone else also to complete His task of world transformation.

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by khemkaran » 10 Jun 2015

Aum Shanti, Arjun Bhai,
arjun wrote: He could have been called Prajapita before 1969, but not after that. But when the BK teachers read the above lines of Murlis in the centers they narrate as if Prajapita is practically present. That is wrong. But when the word Brahma and Prajapita has been used extensively in the Murlis then Prajapita should be present in this world when the Brahmins are also present. Just as Shiv entered in BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, He can enter in someone else also to complete His task of world transformation.
I feel that all the falsehood created by the BKs, PBKs and others will be DESTROYED before world TRANSFORMATION.
PBKs use Prajapita word for Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. If Baba Virendra Dev Dixit would leave his corporeal body without completing the task of Shiv Baba, as they understand it, then will PBKs still use word Prajapita for Baba Virendra Dev Dixit, thereafter? Or after that, will PBKs search for a new Prajapita?
If they (PBKs) would search for new Prajapita, would they change their surname (BK to PBK, PBK to ?) also?
Or do they (DELUSIVELY) 'believe' Virendra Dev Dixit can NEVER leave his corporeal body, without completing the task of Shiv Baba, JUST AS BKs (DELUSIVELY) 'BELIEVED', in the case of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, with regard to not leaving the CORPOREAL body before completing the task of Shiv???
Obviously, PBKs are FOLLOWING the very SAME TREND, and COMMITTING the VERY SAME BLUNDER, with regard to their DELUSIVE belief in this respect???

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by karan » 11 Jun 2015

arjun wrote:That is what I am trying to say. He could have been called Prajapita before 1969, but not after that.
So, what is MORE important? Being in a corporeal body, or the service one does? ACCORDING to you -
When B Baba is in CORPOREAL body, he can be called as Prajapita; even when B Baba does MORE service
while being in SUBTLE body, then he is not fit to be called Prajapita, even if the service is MUCH MORE PRONOUNCED - can this be considered to be a reasonable and sensible interpretation?

But, the following (and also MANY other) Murli point says - the SAME Prajapita, then becomes subtle:

SM 24-9-73(3):- Sthaapnaa karnevaalaa hai Parampita Paramatma - EES Brahma DWARA. Yah bhi Baba ne samjhaayaa hai sookshmvatanvaasi ko Prajapita nahin kahenge. Vahaan Praja hoti nahin. Toh zaroor Prajapita Brahma yahaan hoga. Vahee phir Avyakt sampoorn banega. Vah toh hai Avyakt. Zaroor vyakt bhi chaahiye jo phir Avyakt hona hai. Donon abhi dikhaayi padte hain. PRAJAPITA Brahma YAHAAN BHI HAI TOH SOOKSHMVATAN MAY BHI HAI. Prajapita toh zaroor yahaan chaahiye. Zaroor Prajapita Brahma ke bachche bhi yahaan hee hain. Tum sabko kah sakte ho Prajapita jo vyakt hai, vahee phir Avyakt hona chahiye.

= The one who establishes is Supreme Father Supreme Soul - through THIS Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani). Baba has also explained that the Subtle Region Brahma cannot be called as Prajapita
(AT THE TIME, when Lekhraj Kirpalani plays the role of Prajapita in a corporeal body in this corporeal world).
There can be no praja (people) there. So definitely Prajapita Brahma would be here. He HIMSELF (Lekhraj Kirpalani) will THEN become Avyakt and COMPLETE. That one is Avyakt
(only the symbolic, subtle, COMPLETE representative form of the effort-maker Lekhraj Kirpalani, who is in a corporeal body in this corporeal world at THAT TIME).
Definitely Vyakt (corporeal Lekhraj Kirpalani) is also needed, WHO (HIMSELF) will THEN become Avyakt. Both are seen now.
PRAJAPITA Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) IS ALSO HERE, (in corporeal, as an effort maker),
AS WELL AS in Subtle Region

(only the symbolic, subtle, COMPLETE representative form of the effort-maker Lekhraj Kirpalani, who is in a corporeal body in this corporeal world at THAT TIME).
Prajapita is DEFINITELY required to be here
(in a corporeal body, AS LONG AS, the CONCERNED Children are ALSO in a CORPOREAL CONSCIOUSNESS; and when they are able to develop a SUBTLE CONSCIOUSNESS, Shiv can CONTINUE to sustain them through the SAME Prajapita, Lekhraj Kirpalani, through his SUBTLE body, which takes place after 1969, through D Gulzar).
Definitely Prajapita Brahma’s Children would also be here
(receiving sustenance from Shiv through corporeal body of Prajapita, Lekhraj Kirpalani, AS LONG AS, they are in a CORPOREAL CONSCIOUSNESS; and THEREAFTER, CONTINUE to receive sustenance from Shiv, through the subtle body of SAME Prajapita, Lekhraj Kirpalani, when they develop their OWN SUBTLE STAGE).
You can tell everyone that the Prajapita (Lekhraj Kirpalani) who is NOW corporeal, HIMSELF then becomes subtle. (achieves the KARMATEET stage and becomes a COMPLETE ANGEL)!

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Jun 2015

karan wrote:But, your observation is also right, from your personal viewpoint
It's not a subjective view. It's an objective view.

There is ZERO about history in this topic.

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by shivsena » 11 Jun 2015

arjun wrote: If Prajapita Brahma has come, where is he? If BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani is Prajapita he should be with the praja (subjects) and not in the Subtle Region.
If Prajapita has to be with praja-subjects, then 108-kings-angels should be with whom.??

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by arjun » 11 Jun 2015

khemkaran wrote:PBKs use Prajapita word for Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit. If Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit would leave his corporeal body without completing the task of Shiv Baba, as they understand it, then will PBKs still use word Prajapita for Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit, thereafter? Or after that, will PBKs search for a new Prajapita?
Just wait and watch.

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Re: Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

Post by arjun » 11 Jun 2015

karan wrote:PRAJAPITA Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani) IS ALSO HERE, (in corporeal, as an effort maker),
AS WELL AS in Subtle Region
The above words were spoken when Dada Lekhraj was alive and the BKs of that time were habituated to going into trance for every small reason. They used to see the image of Dada Lekhraj in the Subtle Region. So, they thought that the one whom they used to see in trance was also Prajapita Brahma. But once Dada Lekhraj left his body, he no longer is eligible to hold that title.

Howevermuch service he may do through the subtle body, but the memorials are made only about the actions performed through the corporeal body in the Confluence Age. In the Confluence Age Dada Lekhraj is performing his task only by entering in Shankar's body after 1969. Hence his memorial is formed in the form of a crescent on the head of Shankar.

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