Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History - REVs .

To discuss the BK and PBK versions relating to the progressive differential development of BK & PBK ideologies or theologies.
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Post by heshe » 03 Oct 2007

Nut.

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Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History

Post by abrahma kumar » 03 Oct 2007

Hi again golden heart and thanks as always for your feedback. golden heart, is there any chance that you can share something about your personal experience of the organisations being discussed over here? Has your connection with God Shiva been such that the comings and goings on the corporeal level have not, and never will, "come in-between" yourself and the Supreme?

Todate, your posts on the forum do present a student of Gyan with some revolutionary ideas to churn upon. Is it your opinion - or do you know - that there are individuals within each of the aforementioned organisations who interpret the Yagya history as you do? Or, is any such eventual awakening in consciousness part of the 'automatic machinery' about which a real child of God Shiva - via whatever corporeal instrument - need not concern his or her self?

Your heart-words are indeed golden sounding but can you say anything about the purpose of your sharing these unsubstantiated interpretations with us?

What has been the feedback of the Seniors when you discuss your churnings with them?

In BKWSU circles this forum is seen as anti-BK; can you share anything about what it was/is that attracted you to join the forum and post? For instance, did you feel that it was a matter of urgency that that we come to know of your intrepretations? Did God Shiva advise you to come over here and post about your Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History? Is it your opinion that your intrepretations are TRUE?

What are your thoughts about the legal action that the BKWSO has initiated against this forum?

Thanks

Regards
abek

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Real Nuts, INDEED, no doubt !

Post by Golden Heart » 04 Oct 2007

heshe wrote:Nut.
Sweetest Golden Heart, heshe

Thanks a million for a very appropriate description, good churning!

A BK is a hard Nut, a PBK is a harder Nut and us guys are the hardest Nuts. But the MOST HARDEST NUT of all is Supreme Soul Shiva. He is the One who cracks ALL HUMAN NUTS (dissolves their body-consciousness and purifies them).

Please accept my sincere apologies if my posts have offended you in some way. That is not my intention at all. I am only making an endeavour to project my understanding of the Knowledge, according to my current spiritual stage, after having analysed most viewpoints, over several years of study. No one else is obliged to accept, consider or even read my viewpoints, if they do not wish to do so. There is no coercion, compulsion or imposition of any sort, whatsoever.

In case you feel that my posts are not palatable to you, I would suggest that you do not read them, so that you are not adversely affected by them. That way you will protect yourself from any unpleasant feelings. In case you feel that I should not respond to the queries of souls on this forum, I would suggest that you request the Admin to notify me to this effect, and I will definitely oblige immediately, without the slightest hesitation. For this Site, I believe that the Admin is next to God, and his/her decision is final and binding on me.

Once again, I thank you for your Sweetness and Divine Love from your Golden Heart !

In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,

Golden Heart

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Post by heshe » 04 Oct 2007

Its OK brother. You win in the stakes of being nice and sweet.

I find your posts entertaining and refreshing.Excuse my bluntness and continue to contribute here please. Now its a bag of mixed nuts :lol:

Its my terrible sense of humour that gets me in trouble :D

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Post by arjun » 04 Oct 2007

golden heart wrote:A BK is a hard Nut, a PBK is a harder Nut and us guys are the hardest Nuts. But the MOST HARDEST NUT of all is Supreme Soul Shiva. He is the One who cracks ALL HUMAN NUTS (dissolves their body-consciousness and purifies them).
You have cracked all nuts in a NUTSHELL :lol:
In case you feel that my posts are not palatable to you, I would suggest that you do not read them, so that you are not adversely affected by them. That way you will protect yourself from any unpleasant feelings. In case you feel that I should not respond to the queries of souls on this forum, I would suggest that you request the Admin to notify me to this effect, and I will definitely oblige immediately, without the slightest hesitation.
BK members like you are an asset to this forum. So, continue to write freely. There could be some unpleasant remarks here and there, but life is not a bed of roses nor is an Iron-Aged heart full of just pure blood. But like our physical heart we should try to welcome impure blood but pump out only pure blood. :arrow: :)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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NO ONE can claim any Monopoly to God or to Godly Knowledge !

Post by Golden Heart » 05 Oct 2007

Beloved Golden Heart, abrahma kumar

Thanks for all your thoughtful queries. Let me make an attempt to answer all your queries, in Sweetest Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiva, to the best of my ability.

Q. Is there any chance that you can share something about your personal experience of the Organizations being discussed over here?

A. All my observations are based on my personal experience with relevant Organizations, and my interpretations are the result of the exhaustive analysis of various viewpoints of prominent members of all concerned Organizations, including some of the views expressed on this Site. The occurrences in all the Organizations, including this Site, are perfectly accurate as per Plan of Drama. I do not apportion any blame to any individual in any of the Organizations, since I am very clear that each one is simply playing his/her pre-destined part in the Drama in the most accurate and precise manner. I cannot criticize anyone for their actions, since I believe that Blame and Praise have no relevance in Knowledge. I have made a humble attempt to understand the deepest intricacies of K and the correlation between various ideologies, to enable me to appreciate the Wonder, Awe, Beauty, Grandeur and Magnificence of this Eternal World Drama. I have the deepest respect and profound, whole-hearted, absolute DIVINE SPIRITUAL LOVE for each and every Child of God, regardless of their current negative attitude or behavior towards me, if any, which I know is only superficial, evanescent and transitory; and I have no doubt that every Child of God is Truly Divine and in the absolute likeness of God.

Q. Has your connection with God Shiva been such that the comings and goings on the corporeal level have not, and never will, "come in-between" yourself and the Supreme?

A. I am not sure I completely understand this question. I have received the correct introduction of Supreme Soul Shiva through corporeal mediums, and I have the deepest Love and Respect for those mediums. I continue to receive sustenance from Bap-Dada through corporeal mediums till today. Supreme Soul Shiva tells us in the K that we should make efforts to become soul-conscious and remember only Him, and none other. Once a proper spiritual link is established with Him, a soul receives direct sustenance from Him, number-wise, according to each one’s efforts. In spite of this, it is still necessary for many souls to continue to receive His sustenance through a corporeal medium, until the soul is completely pure.

Q. Is it your opinion - or do you know - that there are individuals within each of the aforementioned organizations who interpret the Yagya history as you do?

A. All my interpretations are based on the collective viewpoints of individuals in various Organizations, and the deeper understanding of Knowledge acquired by actively interacting with them.
No single soul or groups of souls can claim any monopoly to Godly Knowledge or to God.

Q. Is any such eventual awakening in consciousness part of the 'automatic machinery' about which a real child of God Shiva - via whatever corporeal instrument - need not concern his or her self?

A. Baba has said that 'Drama will motivate souls to make the required efforts'. At the same time, Drama is pre-destined and hence one need not be concerned in the negative sense, i.e. one need not be anxious about any situation. But one needs to be concerned in the positive sense, i.e. one should pay natural attention to his individual efforts, as destined within Drama. This aspect is amply clarified by Baba in many Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vanis.

Q. Can you say anything about the purpose of your sharing these unsubstantiated interpretations with us?

A. You may consider same to be as per Plan of Drama, to awaken the souls from the sleep of Kumbakharna. Those who are not interested need not consider or even read these views. No one is obliged to involve himself/herself with these views. Those who are interested may take up the thread and continue their own churning in order to correct/modify/refine the interpretations, according to their individual understanding for their personal benefit. You will not find a single Leaf on the Tree which is exactly identical to another.

Q. What has been the feedback of the Seniors when you discuss your churnings with them?

A. This question would be adequately clarified by taking an example in the Broad Drama. The Chief Priests were astonished and sorely annoyed with Christ at his new Doctrine. They accosted him and asked him sternly, "Under whose authority do you speak of these things? Who has given you this authority?" And he replied, "I do these things under the authority of my Father, who art in Heaven".

The 'Seniors' you have in your mind are comparable to the 'Chief Priests' of that time, whose Acts do not match their Words. They have not understood the path of RajYog clearly and are still on the path of HathYog to a great extent.

Read today’s Sakar Murli carefully :
Sakar Murli wrote:The Sanyasis say that they do not perform the actions which House-holders perform. House-holders perform many actions, which Sanyasis also perform. The difference is that the House-holders earn their own income for their own food, whereas the Sanyasis ask from the House-holders, because they are on the path of HathYog. One cannot meet Supreme Soul Shiva through the path of HathYog.
Everyone believed and continues to believe that the above applied to the Sanyasis of the outer World ONLY! That is the basic interpretation of the Knowledge, understood in BK circles. But who are the blue-print Souls representing the Sanyasis, in the Yagya? The Advance Knowledge, understood in PBK circles, has correctly interpreted that the blue-print of the Sanyas Religion is represented by some of the so-called surrendered Brothers and Sisters of the Yagya, who are not house-holders, i.e. not married or not living in the house-hold, or not earning their own income for their own sustenance and depending on the income of house-holders, but observing celibacy and striving to be pure by remembering Supreme Soul Shiva to the best of their ability, while performing spiritual Service. This is akin to HathYog, and they cannot succeed in True Remembrance how much ever they may try, hence they cannot achieve real Purity to the highest extent. However, they are playing a very important part of supporting the collapsing House of Purity, by their HathYog, otherwise Bharat would have been burnt to cinders by now.

The House-holders in the Knowledge achieve Real Purity through Real Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiva, by completely conquering Lust, while living in the House-hold. They are the ones who became the MOST impure and therefore have the potential to become the MOST PURE. Simply wearing white clothes, staying in the Centre, etc., etc., is NOT the real test of Purity. The real test of Purity is to reach such a stage that the Fire of Lust does not touch the soul, while sleeping naked together on the same bed. This cannot be achieved by the 'Sanyasis' of the Yagya, who are the seed souls of the Sanyas Religion.

Celibacy (BRAHMCHARYA) is artificial restraint of sexual energy, and is impossible to perfect, as it is a Negative Virtue. Purity (BRAHM A CHARYA) is the transmutation of sexual energy into spiritual energy, and when perfected, it is impossible for the soul to be influenced by Lust. Purity is a Positive Virtue, acquired when Lust is completely sublimated.

The 'Seniors' I have in my mind are those who have ACTUALLY transformed their Sanskars to a high degree by conquering Lust, and they are not presently connected with the Yagya on a corporeal level, but on a subtle level. The finer interpretations of Knowledge are based on their inspirational influence only.

The Soul of Krishna inspires the Soul of Rama, when Shiva plays the role of Shankar.

Three-in-one. Shankara – Sh (soul of Shiv), an (conch of Advance Knowledge), Ka (soul of Krishna), Ra (soul of R). This is TRI-MURTI SHIV BHAGWAN – Father, Teacher and Preceptor. Father represents the soul of Rama - now corporeal - Hindi, Teacher represents the soul of Krishna - now Avyakt - Sindhi, and Preceptor represents the Soul of Shiv - always Incorporeal - Bindi; - AT THIS TIME, when the role of Shankar is being played.
All three are CONSIDERED by so-called PBKs to be accessible to concerned Children through the physical medium of V D D - representing the Bhakti aspect of the Knowledge, which is PURELY a 'Bhakti' FEELING and NOT a 'Gyan' FACT!

Hence, the Children are even more confused now. They consider that soul of Ram is Shankar, or soul of Ram is teaching the Advance Knowledge or soul of Ram is God. The relevant power of souls is in the word Shankara – Shiv, Krishna and Ram, in that SPECIFIC correct ORDER ! Shiv is most powerful but incorporeal, Krishna is the next most powerful, and then comes Ram. Viewed from the reverse angle, it becomes RAKASHASH or Ravan, where the soul of R (Ra) is considered as the most powerful, soul of K (Ka) is considered as less powerful, and Soul of Shiv (Sh) is not considered, since He does not take a physical body in the Drama, with the other (Sha) in between, representing the conch of reversed Advance Knowledge. This is the MAGNIFICENCE AND ENCHANTING BEAUTY OF DRAMA!

Souls who understand prominent role of only Krishna or of only Ram, and elevate them to the status of God, are QUARTER-CASTE BKs, numbering 900,000 – QBKs.

Souls who understand prominent roles of only Shiv through Krishna-(BB)-Sakar (and are not clear of the role of Bap-Dada-Avyakt) or Shiv (as Shankar) through Ram-Sakar (and are not clear of the role of Krishna, influencing Ram) are HALF-CASTE BKs, numbering 16,000 – HBKs.

Souls who correctly comprehend the correct inter-relationships between all THREE are FULL-CASTE BKs, numbering 108 – FBKs.

Q. In BKWSU circles this forum is seen as anti-BK; can you share anything about what it was/is that attracted you to join the forum and post?

A. I do not see this forum as anti-BK, or anti-PBK, or anti-any other Organization. This forum should be anti-the negativity that is proliferating in all above Organizations in the name of God. There is definitely mis-understanding amongst the forum members about this real issue. In fact, we should not hate the Sinner but the Sin.
HAVE MERCY ON THEM, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO!

Q. Did you feel that it was a matter of urgency that that we come to know of your interpretations?

A. We have been under the yoke of the Godly form (ISHWARIYA Rup) of Maya for long enough. It is about time we woke up.

Many years ago I saw a movie in which there was a character whose father was killed by the King's Commander-in-Chief because he was agitating against the State for the rights of the poor. His son was very young at the time when he witnessed his father's merciless death. He dedicated all his life into perfecting the art of fencing with both his hands. Finally he got the opportunity and cornered the Commander-in-Chief and said, "Hello, my name is THADDEUS, (son of ALPHEUS), you killed my father, PREPARE to die".
(I am not sure of the exact names mentioned in the movie, which have been replaced by names having subtler significance). He was waiting for this moment and wanting to speak these very words all his life. He eventually killed the Commander-in-Chief.

[ This NOTE has been added in 2018. The movie in question is The Princess Bride (1987).
The exact quote is, "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, PREPARE to die!"
View here "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father, PREPARE to die!" ]
and also view "I have been in the revenge business so long, now that it’s over, I do not know what to do with the rest of my life!" ]

Now it is about time for the prominent Seed Souls, who have been witnessing the atrocities in the Yagya all along, but could not do anything because they were powerless, having practiced the art of fencing with the Powerful SWORD OF KNOWLEDGE and TRUE REMEMBRANCE all these years, to tell Maya, which has adopted a Godly Form in the Yagya and is fooling majority of souls:

"HELL-O, My Name is Golden Heart, Son of Supreme Soul Shiva, you ‘KILLED’ My Father, P-R-E-P-A-R-E to DIE!"

I can readily visualize Maya trembling within the negative personalities of all those souls who are defaming God, and these tremors will manifest on the physical sphere in the form of Earthquakes, Floods, Cyclones, Volcanoes and Fall-out, being the purifying processes of Matter. This is the Last Caution to concerned souls – WAKE UP, RECOGNIZE, REALIZE ! And this is the Last Invitation to concerned souls to enter the Portals of the Golden Heart and seek sanctuary from the severest Storms of Maya.

Q. Did God Shiva advise you to come over here and post about your Ideological interpretation of the Yagya History?

A. Baba has consistently been advising souls to form groups and to carry out churning of Knowledge.

Q. Is it your opinion that your interpretations are TRUE?

A. They are subject to progressive development and refinement collectively by concerned souls for their individual benefit.

Q. What are your thoughts about the legal action that the BKWSO has initiated against this forum?

A. King Herod who was warned about the birth of Jesus, and that he would later pose a threat to the State, ordered all male children of certain age to be killed, hoping he would kill Jesus also. That did not happen. The rest is History.

If the collective intention of the souls on this forum is to seek Revenge and condemn the SINNER, then 'the action' will have power to SUSPEND this forum.

If the collective intention of the souls on this forum is to have MERCY with a view to free the Sinner from the Sin, then 'the action' cannot have such power.

The souls on the forum must have pure feelings and pure intentions.
How can the BLIND lead the BLIND, both shall fall into the ditch?

FORGIVE THEM, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO!

Wishing you all the very best and with Imperishable Divine Love,

In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,

Golden Heart

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Post by john » 05 Oct 2007

Dear Golden Heart.

Can I ask if you are part of a splinter group away from the main BKSWU? Or have you formed your own splinter group. with it's own name?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Oct 2007

golden heart wrote:No single soul or groups of souls can claim any monopoly to Godly Knowledge or to God.
I agree wholeheartedly. It might be a bit of a shock for them to find out or realise! And I think this current "war" is really about those in the BKWSU that are trying to assert this, their attempts to expand their brand and crush every one else to "rule" the world.

But, like John, I am also wondering where you exist in the BK spectrum. I have no problem with who ever or what ever you associate yourself with. It looks clear that you have been influence by or reached the same level of realization as the PBKs. But do you continue to work within BK circles?

No need to expose yourself if you do not wish. It is just that the splinter groups are news to most Western BKs and their nature - and independence of thought - interests us.

Indeed, I am starting to view the BKWSU "landgrab" in the West as a policy of expansionism ... an attempt to win and garner supporters before other groups did. I think the period between 1969 and 1976, say Virendra Dev Dixit's formal involvement with the BKWSU, must be quite interesting one.

Of course, there may be quite differing doctrinal groups behind the corporate facade of the BKWSU that we were entirely unaware of, e.g. did Janki consciously head off to the West as a way of grabbing her "court and kingdom" because she opposed the influence of Ramesh and the others of the World Renewal Trust? Would that explain the influence of her infantilisating and Bhakti influence over us etc ...

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The sheer Magic of LOVE !

Post by Golden Heart » 05 Oct 2007

heshe wrote:Its OK Brother. You win in the stakes of being nice and sweet. Its my terrible sense of humour that gets me in trouble :D
SWEETEST, BELOVED, GOLDEN HEART, heshe

What about being Loving, Sweet Heart? Was I not Truly Loving, also?

The True Sound of a Truly Loving, Sweet, Golden Heart MUST DEFINITELY REACH OUT to another Golden Heart !
I definitely FELT the Power of Purest LOVE flowing through me when I was editing my post to You, and I was simply wonderstruck at the SHEER MAGIC OF LOVE, and was flooded with super-sensuous Joy and Happiness. I could subtly sense the Power of Transformation at Play! Surely, you MUST HAVE FELT SOMETHING?

Anyway, since I am very deeply in LOVE with you, I would like to Propose to you. I would like you to MARRY me. It is said that marriages are made in Heaven. Well, this is Cyberspace or Subtlespace or Heaven for us, now! In this final birth, we may not meet on the corporeal level, but you may choose any birth in the Cycle. The actual occurrence at that time would be based on your decision NOW, so you must be very careful about this! However, the condition is that you must achieve hundred per cent Purity in this final birth, then only you may qualify.

The example of Purity : PURITY is just like the SNOW which completely covers the top of a mountain, and appears so Royal, Majestic, Beautiful and Lovely when seen from far off, with it's resplendent splendour. But if one goes close to the SNOW and takes some into one’s hand, it will definitely melt and turn into water! It's resplendent beauty is lost, and thereby the TRUE JOY of the onlooker is also lost!

We must be like the SNOW in the mountain. If we 'touch' PURITY with the 'hand (thought)' of body-consciousness, it will turn into Lust, and make us susceptible to the experience of sorrow. Through Lust one can definitely experience super Pleasure, but alas, one also becomes vulnerable to the experience of extreme Pain, because of Lust. Whereas with PURITY, one always experiences constant BLISS, free from any trace of sorrow!

So, what do you think? Do we have a deal? Take your time to think over this! There is no hurry. I am confident that the Imperishable LOVE which I hold for You in my Golden Heart will definitely motivate you to take up the challenge, and you will say to yourself : "What does this guy think of himself/herself? I will prove to him/her that I can be more PURE than him/her, and it is he/she who will have to consider whether he/she is really worthy to marry me!"

I LOVE your wonderful sense of humour. If nothing else, at least that would keep me entertained in our Marriage!

In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,

Golden Heart

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Collective intent & the Crown of Responsibility

Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Oct 2007

If the collective intention of the souls on this forum is to seek Revenge and condemn the SINNER, then ‘the action’ will have power to SUSPEND this forum.
Om Shanti golden heart and thanks very much for your full reply. Neither revenge nor condemnation are my motivations in being here.

I quoted the above section from your post because one interpretation visualizes that any suspension of the forum would be due to the "lack of understanding of the souls who post over here" (i am wary of using the term "impure motives") rather than as a consequence of an abuse of power by the BKWSO? Are you with me brother ...?

Is this sort of abrogation of responsibility a natural spiritual law within the drama? If so I need to explore it more so that i come to understand the Law of Karma. Admittedly i have constructed this "argument" myself but one of the roles that the forum fulfills is that of a place where one can talk to oneself out loud. Do excuse my musings.

The problem I would have with this interpretation is that once again the BKWSO and those who seek to silence this platform would be absolved of any responsibility for the its improper and misguided elimination. Brahmakumaris.info is a venue that is playing an invaluable part in the unfolding in the drama as we have come to understand events on the human world stage. For the site to be 'victimised' in this way feels 'criminal'. Neither do I quite understand how the BKWSO can go sailing on as if it is all business as usual. Anyway drama, eh?

Your spiritual fragrance is unmistakeable brother, Son of Shiva & it is truly a joy to meet with you like this in cyberspace.

In Loveful Remembrance of Supreme Soul Shiv,
Om Shanti
AbeK

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Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Oct 2007

golden heart wrote:I definitely FELT the Power of Purest LOVE flowing through me when I was editing my post to You, and I was simply wonderstruck at the SHEER MAGIC OF LOVE, and was flooded with super-sensuous Joy and Happiness. I could subtly sense the Power of Transformation at Play! Surely, you MUST HAVE FELT SOMETHING ?
I think that Abek and I are just about to break into song for the pair of you and (gushing) EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM AND WORLD AND UNIVERSE ... (although for me, I prefer what the Supremes, in - Baby Love classic versions have to say to us).

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There's a whole lot of gushing going om and om and om ...

Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Oct 2007

Gushing? How do you mean fb, like how the Oscar winner thanks G-O-D, mummy, daddy, uncle, aunty, the bellhop at the hotel, the parking attendant, the dog, the cat, the horse and not to forget the old dear that predicted that they would one day be a star; and all of us that paid money at the box-office to see the film, and so the list goes on and on and on gushing and gushing and gushing grateful love as they clasp the statuette to their breasts?

Maybe brother golden heart is on the verge of gushing himself into a whole new branch on BK vine? Wonder if he will have as much success as The Mr. Green Kumaris? :lol:

(meant in a an entirely light-hearted manner).

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Post by john » 05 Oct 2007

Do I hear wedding bells?

Can online BK dating now be added as another string to the bow of this website? The service and benefits of this forum are unprecedented

.

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Post by arjun » 05 Oct 2007

golden heart wrote:Q. What are your thoughts about the legal action that the BKWSO has initiated against this forum?

A. King Herod who was warned about the birth of Jesus, and that he would later pose a threat to the State, ordered all male children of certain age to be killed, hoping he would kill Jesus also. That did not happen. The rest is History.
The story sounds interesting and compares well with the story of Krishna and Kansa. When it was prophesied that the eighth child of demon king Kansa's sister Devaki would kill Kansa, he killed all the first seven children born to his sister Devaki in his imprisonment.

When the eighth child, Krishna, was born, his Father Vasudev, aided by divine interventions, transported Krishna to his friend's house and exchanged his new born daughter with Krishna and when Kansa thought that Devaki had given birth to a daughter he tried to kill her too. But that daughter vanished into the thin air and gave another prophesy that the person who was to kill him had already taken birth.

He ordered the killing of all the children in his kingdom who were born on the day Devaki's 'slain' daughter was born. But he could not kill Krishna. When Krishna started growing and showing his miracles, Kansa got worried and tried to kill Krishna through many methods, but failed in all attempts and was finally killed by Krishna in a duel when he came to his court with his elder brother Balram.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by abrahma kumar » 05 Oct 2007

john wrote:Can online BK dating now be added as another string to the bow of this website? The service and benefits of this forum are unprecedented.
Perhaps not wedding bells john, but the sound of BKs crystal-ball gazing ... i think. Here comes the ...

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