VIEWS on "Murli points for churning and inculcation"

To discuss the BK and PBK versions relating to the progressive differential development of BK & PBK ideologies or theologies.
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VIEWS on "Murli points for churning and inculcation"

Post by Abhimanyu » 01 Sep 2014

VIEWS on "Murli points for churning and inculcation"

== STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION ==

This topic is being commenced to segregate the posts, (with views of PBKs and BKs), from the topic "Murli points for churning and inculcation", so that ONLY posts with JUST the Murli points, (WITHOUT ANY VIEWS), will remain in that topic, (for perusal of all concerned), and any posts which contain views of PBKs and BKs have been moved into this topic, so that PBKs and BKs can present their corresponding views for each point of Knowledge highlighted in this topic henceforth.

'mbbhat' is requested to provide the views of BKs against all the PREVIOUS Murli points in all relevant posts in this topic, which have PBKs views, but which do not have corresponding views of BKs so far. This will enable the viewers to readily have access to BOTH the PBK and BK viewpoints in a more comprehensive manner for comparative study.

SAT

==========================================================================================

बाप कहते हैं मैं आता ही हूँ साधारण तन में। न बहुत गरीब , न बहुत साहुकार। (मु. 26.4.75 पृ. २ आदि)
I come only in an ordinary person’s body. Neither too poor nor too rich. [ Mu.26-4-73 Pg-2]


AIVV - PBK : We all know that DLR did not possess an ordinary body. He was well-built and had a king-like personality, which has also been described by BK Jagdish in his books. Also point to be noted is that he was very rich and wealthy. No doubt Shiv did enter in Brahma Baba but played a soft and patient role of a Mother. So Shiv played the role of mother through DLR, but through which personality does He play the part of God, the Father? So above Murli point is applicable to whom ?

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : This has adequately been addressed in the topic-
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t ... ody#p48787
ShivBaba is ACTUALLY REFERRING to the body of Brahma Baba or DLR as ORDINARY; and this is in comparison to BB's, or any other deity's, OWN ROYAL body of G A, and NOT to any other IMPURE or ORDINARY body of I A. DLR may have been well-built, with a king-like personality, but ShivBaba is STILL REFERRING to body of DLR as ORDINARY because his body at the end of I A is IMPURE, compared to his own body in G A, which is PURE and ROYAL. Also, DLR may have been wealthy, but such wealth CANNOT be considered to be "TOO RICH" from a proper 'unlimited' perspective; besides whatever wealth he accumulated, was as per Drama Plan, only to facilitate the process of him being the instrument or FIXED, APPOINTED, PERMANENT Chariot of God, to be able to sustain the selected children who were attracted to the Yagya in the very beginning. In any case, whatever wealth BB had, was instantly surrendered to God in the service of entire Humanity, thus CONFIRMING his role as the REAL Prajapita Brahma or Adam or Adi Dev. BB or soul of DLR played the roles of the Mother AS WELL as the Father, as confirmed by ShivBaba in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS in various SMs and AVs, while he was in 'Sakar'; and furthermore, he CONTINUES to play the role of both Mother as well as Father in 'akar' to date, FOR ALL THOSE RIGHTEOUS CHILDREN who have been FORTUNATE to develop their 'akari' consciousness, although still number-wise, WHO ARE PRACTICALLY CONTINUING TO RECEIVE SPIRITUAL SUSTENANCE FROM GOD THROUGH HIM TO DATE!
SO ABOVE Murli POINT IS ABSOLUTELY APPLICABLE TO PRAJAPITA Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR or soul of the first prince of G A, WITHOUT AN IOTA OF DOUBT WHATSOEVER - BUT ACCEPTED, AS SUCH, ONLY BY THE RIGHTEOUS CHILDREN; AND AS CLEARLY EVIDENT, NOT ACCEPTED, AS SUCH, BY THE UNRIGHTEOUS CHILDREN.

बाप कहते हैं मैं बहुत साधारण तन में आता हूँ इसलिए कोई विरला पहचानते हैं। मैं जो हूँ, जैसा हूँ, साथ में रहने वाले भी समझ नहीं सकते हैं। (मु.4.2.74 पृ. 3 अंत)
Father says, I come in a very ordinary body, that’s why hardly any people recognize Me. Those living close to Me also cannot recognize Me, as I am, what I am. [Mu 4-2-74 Pg-3]


AIVV - PBK : ब्रह्मा अथार्त् बड़ी माँ का तन तो असाधारण था = Body of Brahma or big Mother was not ordinary

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... t=10#p4070 [post No. 19]

Body of Brahma Baba, was IN FACT, ORDINARY, AS CLEARLY EXPLAINED in the point above!
Viewers should also CLEARLY NOTE, how a PBK in the first point, above, records TWO MUTUALLY CONTRADICTORY statements, viz., -
1) "We all know that DLR did not possess an ordinary body."
2) "No doubt Shiv did enter in Brahma Baba but played a soft and patient role of a Mother."
PBKs use above points to treacherously propagate that body of DLR was NOT ORDINARY, (and hence they ASSUME or PRESUME that Shiv CANNOT enter body of DLR, ON THE ONE HAND).
Then they STILL ACCEPT that Shiv DID ENTER body of DLR, (to play the role of a Mother), which means Shiv CAN enter body of DLR, ON THE OTHER HAND (although they delusively believe that body of DLR is NOT ORDINARY)!
THIS CLEARLY PROVES THAT THE INTELLECT OF THE PBKs AND THEIR BODILY GURU IS DEFINITELY MUDDLED, SEGMENTED & FRAGMENTED - ONE ASPECT OF THE SAME MIND DOES NOT REALIZE WHAT THE OTHER ASPECT OF THE SAME MIND IS PROJECTING, AND THE INTELLECT IS UNABLE TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE TWO!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 02 Sep 2014

मालूम कैसे पड़ता है कि इनमें बाप भगवान है ? जब नॉलेज देते हैं। बच्चों को बैठ समझाते हैं।
(मु. 27.10.74 पृ. 2 मध्य)
How it is known that God is in him ? When knowledge is given. Children are explained while sitting.
[Mu.27-10-74 Pg-2]


AIVV - PBK : In this Murli point Baba is saying that through knowledge it is known that God is present in the person. Well knowledge given before 1969 in the form of Murlis through DLR contained the knowledge of 3 aspects of time(past, present, future) and new points kept on emerging with each Murli. But after the demise of Brahma Baba the Avyakt Vanis spoken through Dadi Gulzar are Vanis of only inculcations(dharnas) and virtues and neither it contains 3 aspects of time, also no new points emerge. This proves that Avyakt Vani through Dadi Gulzar is spoken only by Brahma Baba, which is human soul, not God(Shiv), because only God knows about 3 aspects of time and can tell new points of knowledge as He doesn't come in the cycle of birth & death while human soul does(due to which they cannot tell about past or future). Whereas in the case of Virendra Dev Dixit new points of knowledge do emerge, plus it also contains knowledge of 3 aspects of time.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : The main teaching is already over. Post No. 117 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=160 . Baba has also said- point-wise study cannot continue now. And, we can find lots of errors in teaching of Mr Virendra Dev Dixit. Put here - http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593

Point by point response to views of PBKs:
The TYPE of knowledge, which is pertaining ONLY to Ravan Rajya, and the MANNER in which such knowledge is spoken by -Virendra Dev Dixit, PROVES BEYOND DOUBT, that -Virendra Dev Dixit is the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya in Confluence Age.
Soul of Brahma Baba is 'NOT DEAD', while PBKs CONFUSE the 'demise' or 'death' of the physical body of BB, AS IF the soul of BB has CEASED TO EXIST, (since the PURE consciousness of the PBKs and their bodily guru is ACTUALLY 'DEAD'), whereas ACTUALLY BB IS MORE ALIVE than before, AFTER he became Avyakt in 1969, in his SUBTLE body, ACTUALLY EXPERIENCING the 3 aspects of Time, being able to travel throughout the 3 Worlds at ease, and being beyond the constraints of physical matter. So new points about the 3 aspects of time, as well as subtlest aspects of the Knowledge KEEP ON EMERGING in the INTELLECTS of the RIGHTEOUS CHILDREN who develop their 'akari' consciousness, (although number-wise), who are being sustained by ShivBaba through the SAME soul of Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or the soul of DLR, to date. The very purpose of the Knowledge given in the SMs is for INCULCATION to take place, and the DEEP, POWERFUL & POTENT Knowledge contained in the AVs is intended to ensure that the INCULCATION also becomes MORE PRONOUNCED, which is the FINAL AIM of every soul in this study of Raja Yoga. Hence the AVs contain the ESSENCE or CREAM of the Knowledge which was contained in the SMs, and has to be ESSENTIALLY given by GOD or ShivBaba through His SAME 'mukrar-rath' Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR himself, (and NO OTHER SOUL), Dadi Gulzar being simply the corporeal instrument involved, in this Avyakt role of God Himself through BB. The PBKs who believe that ONLY the soul of BB speaks the AVs, are CLEARLY performing the 'shooting' of HiranyaKashyap & Ravan Rajya, thus being instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of the FALSE belief among the devotees of the outer world that the sermonizer of the Gita is Shri Krishna (soul of DLR), rather than Supreme Father Supreme Soul, ShivBaba or God.
Whereas, in the case of -Virendra Dev Dixit new points of CORRUPTED & INVERTED knowledge DEFINITELY DO emerge; PLUS such ADULTERATED knowledge ALSO contains the issues pertaining to the 3 aspects of time - BUT SOLELY RELATING to the periods of C A and I A - or Ravan Rajya, and NOT RamRajya!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 03 Sep 2014

गुलज़ार मोहिनी में शिव नहीं आते, सिर्फ ब्रह्मा आते हैं।

शिव बाबा "पवित्र कन्या के तन में आवे; परन्तु कायदा नहीं है। बाप सो फिर कुमारी पर कैसे सवारी करेंगे ?"
(मु.15.10.69 पृ.2 मध्य)
ShivBaba "to come in the body of a pure virgin; that is not according to law. How can the Father ride on a spinster [Mu.15690-74 Pg-2]


AIVV - PBK : Here Shiv Baba is clearly saying that he won't enter a virgin. But we all know that Gulzar Dadi is a virgin right from the beginning. She has been grown in the pure atmosphere of Yagya. So how can BKs claim that Shiv enters in Gulzar Dadi to speak Avyakt Vani ?

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : post no. 122 - here - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... n&start=10

This has already been also adequately addressed in the topic -
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t ... gin#p47984

A PURE virgin (pavitra kanya) or a PURE ‘Kumari’ DOES NOT EXIST in Iron Age or the Confluence Age, since BOTH the CORPOREAL BODY as well as the SOUL are IMPURE!
The PBKs have PERVERTED this Version TOTALLY to imply that ShivBaba does not or cannot enter in the corporeal vehicle of Dadi Gulzar, since Dadi Gulzar is CONSIDERED to be a ‘pure virgin’ or ‘Kumari’ from a Kaliyugi VIEWPOINT of Ravan Rajya !!! Whereas, BOTH the BODY as well as the SOUL of Dadi Gulzar are IMPURE in the Confluence Age, UNTIL the end-time when the ‘karmateet’ stage is ACTUALLY ACHIEVED! Hence, CLEARLY, these points have no relevance to the ‘Avyakt’ entry of ShivBaba in the corporeal vehicle of DG, who is an EXPERIENCED, ELDERLY WOMAN (buzurg mata), when the ‘Avyakt’ part is being played by BapDada through her!
MORE SIGNIFICANTLY, as already highlighted above, the ‘Avyakt’ part is EXCLUSIVE, and NOT a DIRECT Sakar ENTRY of ShivBaba ALONE in the corporeal vehicle of DG, but the COMBINED ENTRY of both ShivBaba and Brahma Baba, as BapDada, which all the more PROVES the TOTAL IRRELEVANCE of the CORRUPTED INTERPRETATIONS of the PBKs, who think that these versions are written in ‘stone’, WHEREAS, these versions have actually been TOTALLY MIS-INTERPRETED by their bodily guru and BLINDLY accepted by the STONE INTELLECTS of the PBKs, who are TRAPPED in their body-conscious stage, and who are DELUSIVELY made to believe that they have 'unlimited intellects'!!! In this manner, Ravan or Maya SUCCESSFULLY manages to DIVORCE many souls from REAL ShivBaba, and prevents them from ‘meeting’ BapDada after 1969, to claim their REAL inheritance of RamRajya from God.

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 04 Sep 2014

बंदरों की महफिल में आता हूँ। मैं देवताओं की महफिल में कब आता ही नहीं हूँ। जहाँ माल मिलता, 36 प्रकार के भोजन मिल सकते, वहाँ मैं आता ही नहीं हूँ। जहाँ रोटी भी नहीं मिलती बच्चों को, उन्हों को आय गोद में लेकर बच्चा बनाय गोद में लेता हूँ। साहूकारों को गोद में नहीं लेता हूँ। (मु.15.8.76 पृ.3 मध्यादि)
I come in the gathering of monkeys. I never come in the gathering of deities. Where one receives property(wealth), where one receives 36 varieties of food, I do not come there at all. Where the children do not even get bread, I come and take them in My lap, make them My children and keep them in My lap. I do not take the wealthy in My lap. [Mu.15-8-76 Pg-3]


AIVV - PBK : Here ShivBaba is clearly saying that he doesn't come where material and 36 varieties of food is served. Whereas at Brahmakumari's Madhuban in Mt. Abu varieties of food is served at their mess. Further Baba says that he doesn't adopt rich persons, whereas we can see that there are many rich BKs also. So doesn't this Murli point prove that Shiv does not come at Mt. Abu in Gulzar Dadi to speak Avyakt Vani but only soul of Brahma enters.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : The above point VERY MUCH REFERS to BKWSU or PBKIVV, since from the very beginning only souls with wavering/wandering or 'monkey-like' intellects came to the gatherings, where ShivBaba came to meet them, through His 'mukrar-rath' of Brahma Baba or DLR; and furthermore, most of them were from poor families, while very few who were from richer families were disowned by their earning family members, thus rendering them poor as well; furthermore these souls had to pass through a PROLONGED BEGGARY PERIOD ALSO, and the question of having any property or enjoying 36 varieties of food DID NOT ARISE AT ALL!!! During the BEGGARY PERIOD they did not even have enough for even ONE SQUARE MEAL A DAY, and it was such RIGHTEOUS CHILDREN whom God came and took in His lap, and made them His Children, belonging to Him, and kept them in His LOVING LAP PRACTICALLY, whereas, the wealthy ones who had arrogance of their wealthy status had NO CHANCE or NO FORTUNE to Re-Cognize or meet God when He was in 'Sakar' through His 'mukrar-rath' of Brahma Baba or DLR.
This point refers to this period of time in the Yagya, which the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit has TREACHEROUSLY TWISTED to COMPLETELY FOOL and CAPTIVATE his BLIND followers, the PBKs!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 05 Sep 2014

The one who resided [with us] for 10 years and she used to go into trance. She used to make Mama and Baba perform the drill (of remembrance). Baba used to give directions by entering into them. They commanded so much respect. They are not present today. At that time there wasn't so much of the knowledge. [Mu.23-7-69 Pg-2]

AIVV - PBK : This Murli point clearly says that in the beginning of Yagya there were such personalities who even used to perform drill of remembrance to Mama(Om Radhey), Baba(Lekhraj Kirpalani). And Shiv used to give directions to them(Lekhraj Kirpalani, Om Radhey) through those personalities. In Bhakitmarg we know that Shankar is called Mahadev(the greatest deity). Thus this point indicates that one of those personalities must be of the soul who will be revealed as Shankar in the world in his next birth(i.e. current time) because Shankar(Virendra Dev Dixit) is greater than Brahma(Lekhraj Kirpalani). Also the other personality could be his companion(Jagdamba) as Shankar is called Jagatpita.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Post No. 12 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... t=10#p4063

Has also been adequately addressed in following topic -
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t ... nce#p48694
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t ... nce#p47915

Refers to the trance-sisters who were placed in charge by BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, as a matter of regard, and for training purposes. However, they FAILED to PROPERLY recognise both the Parlokik and Alokik Parents, and left the Yagya, since storks and swans could not continue to exist together; and hence they FAILED, and can only hold PRINCIPAL administrative positions in Ravan's 'paradise' during Ravan Rajya.

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 11 Sep 2014

बाप ही समझाते हैं, जिसमें प्रवेश किया है वह भी सुनते हैं। (मु.07.02.68 पृ.1 आदि)
The Father explains: the one in whom I enter, he also listens. [Mu.07-02-68 Pg-1]


AIVV - PBK : Here Baba clearly says that the person whom he enters also listens. But what happens in the case of Gulzar Dadi when Avyakt BapDada comes? She is unable to listen the Avyakt Vani and has to read afterwards. Thus, doesn't this Murli point proves that Shiv does not enter Gulzar Dadi to speak Avyakt Vani but only the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani enters. It happens so because the soul of Brahma Baba exerts pressure of his astral body as a result of which she becomes unconscious of the Vani being spoken through her.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : The one in whom Supreme Father Supreme Soul, ShivBaba or God enters is Prajapita Brahma, Brahma Baba or soul of DLR, who ALSO listens with his physical ears, when he is in his corporeal body, when ShivBaba speaks through the 'lotus mouth' of his corporal body; and BB is able to 'listen' or PERCEIVE MORE THAN MILLION TIMES BETTER & CLEARER when ShivBaba speaks through his subtle body, using the instrumental corporeal body of DG. The question of DG listening DOES NOT ARISE AT ALL, since this is NOT A DIRECT ENTRY of ShivBaba or God by Himself ALONE, but a COMBINED ENTRY of BOTH ShivBaba and Brahma Baba, as BapDada, using the subtle body of BB and the corporeal instrumental body of DG.
It is by TREACHEROUSLY TWISTING such simple points of PURE Knowledge of God, that Ravan or Maya SUCCEEDS in DECEIVING & TRAPPING the BLIND PBKs through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 11 Sep 2014

'शिव'बाबा तो बड़ी सभाओं में नहीं बैठ समझावेंगे। (मु.4.9.73 पृ.2 मध्य)
ShivBaba would not sit and explain in large gatherings. [Mu.23-7-69 Pg-2]


AIVV - PBK : What happens at Mt. Abu when there is program of Avyakt BapDada ? There is huge gathering of BKs in number of thousands. Thus, it could be concluded that only soul of DLR enters to deliver Avyakt Vani and not the soul of Shiv.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : It is applicable to period prior 1969 to lowkik gatherings. - Baba has also said- Old points will not come into use - Post No. 37 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 7&start=30

And, even after 1969, when compared to lowkik gatherings, the gathering at Mount Abu is still smaller.

BTW, Has any PBK thought why God cannot come in big gatherings? Any problem? Has God fear of people? And- main teachings are already over. So, now BapDada is not coming to teach like in a regular way. - Post No. 117 in the same topic above.

Also adequately addressed in the topic -
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t ... ngs#p48713
Father - Supreme Soul ShivBaba - through His ‘mukrar-rath’, BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani - cannot go to LARGE GATHERINGS OF THE OUTSIDE WORLD. Father (ShivBaba) meets ONLY His Children who recognize Him TRULY, REGARDLESS OF THE SIZE OF THE GATHERING. ALL types of BKs, who do not recognise the accurate roles of either the Parlokik Father (ShivBaba) or the Alokik Father (BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani), CANNOT meet God directly, FACE TO FACE, when He plays His role through the SOLE Chariot of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani (in ‘Sakar’ until 1969, and then in ‘Akar’, to date!
THIS CLEARLY DEMONSTRATES & PROVES HOW Ravan OR Maya IS AFFORDED THE POTENTIAL WITHIN DRAMA TO COMPLETELY INVERT/REVERT THE INTELLECTS OF THE BLIND PBKs INTO BELIEVING THAT SUCH TREACHEROUSLY TWISTED POINTS HAVE ANY SEMBLANCE OF TRUTH IN THEM!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 16 Sep 2014

ऐसे नहीं बाबा का आह्वान करते हैं। नहीं, बाबा का आह्वान तो कर ही नहीं सकते। बाबा को आपे ही आना है।
(मु.12.4.76 पृ.1 आदि)
It is not that you invoke Baba. No, one cannot invoke Baba. Baba has to come himself. [Mu.12-4-76 Pg-1]


AIVV - PBK : What happens in the case of Gulzar Dadi, when there is Avyakt BapDada's program at Mt. Abu. BKs there invoke BapDada by playing music. They invoke BapDada and BapDada too comes in Gulzar Dadi. But in this Murli point Baba clearly says that He cannot be invoked. So, doesn't this prove that only soul of Brahma enters and not the soul of Shiv. Because a human soul requires respect and position, and not Supreme Soul Shiv, as he is completely soul conscious.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Actually, there is no invoking of BapDada in BKWSU. It is already pre-fixed in both limited (by BK administration) as well as unlimited way (by drama). If BKs can invoke BapDada just by playing music, then every BK would have done so at his home, or it would have been done more number of times, or EVEN EVERYDAY, in Madhuban(Mount Abu). HOW SILLY CAN THE PBKs GET???

Also addressed in the topic -
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t ... led#p48340
DG is NOT the Sakar Chariot of ShivBaba in the sense that PBKs delusively believe to be the understanding of (REAL) BKs. The ONE and ONLY Chariot of ShivBaba in Sakar is BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani. The part played by ShivBaba and BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani together, after 1969, through the vehicle of DG is an Avyakt part, where ShivBaba continues to sustain the Children through the subtle vehicle of BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani.
Many are of the WRONG understanding that the body of DG jerks on the entry of ShivBaba and BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, which is incorrect. The body of DG jerks on the EXIT or MERGING of the consciousness of DG in the subtle awareness. Only when, after a short while, the eyes of DG actually open once again, the lights are turned on, when the actual entry of both ShivBaba and BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani together is UNDERSTOOD to have taken place. The actual second when this entry occurs cannot be determined on a gross level, since it is between the jerk of the body and the opening of the eyes! The time of these visits have to be scheduled in advance to facilitate the meetings of innumerable souls across the World, WITH THE EXPRESS PERMISSION AND CONSENT OF BapDada, via TRANCE MESSAGES.
SO ShivBaba IS NEITHER INVOKED WHEN Brahma Baba WAS IN Sakar, NOR AFTER 1969, WHEN THE Avyakt MEETING TAKES PLACE THROUGH THE BODY OF DG.
The BLIND PBKs CANNOT COMPREHEND ANY OF THESE SUBTLE OCCURRENCES DUE TO THEIR GROSS BODY-CONSCIOUSNESS and IMPURE INVERTED INTELLECTS!!!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 17 Sep 2014

ड्रामा में जिसका पार्ट है उनमें ही प्रवेश करते हैं और उसका नाम ब्रह्मा रखते हैं। ... अगर वह दूसरे में आवें तो भी उनका नाम ब्रह्मा रखना पड़े। (मु.19.3.78 पृ.2 मध्यांत)
He only enters the one who has a part in Drama, and keeps his name as 'Brahma'. ... If He were to come in another, then too his name would have to be kept as 'Brahma'. [Mu.19-3-78 Pg-2]


AIVV - PBK : गुलज़ार मोहिनी का ब्रह्मा नाम तो नहीं पड़ा = Gulzar Mohini did not get the name 'Brahma'.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : AS ALREADY EXPLAINED IN PREVIOUS POSTS, it is not just Shiv ALONE, by Himself, coming in Dadi Gulzar. Both ShivBaba and Brahma Baba come TOGETHER, as BapDada, for an Avyakt meeting through the body of DG. So, how can her name be changed? The name of the 'mukrar-rath' of ShivBaba had ALREADY been changed to Brahma when BB was in 'Sakar', and ShivBaba comes to meet in 'akar' through the SAME SOUL of Brahma through his SUBTLE BODY, ONLY using the instrumental corporeal body of DG to facilitate such a meeting - hence the question of considering DG as Brahma DOES NOT ARISE AT ALL!
And - Post No. 93 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... adi#p12057

What ShivBaba is indicating in the above point is that, whichever body he may take as the 'mukrar-rath', that PARTICULAR body would have to be named as Prajapita Brahma or Brahma. The need to clarify this matter arose when some souls of the outside world started asking AT THAT TIME as to why God has to enter ONLY in DLR and why only DLR is named as Brahma. So then God clarified this doubt by way of the above point.
The point does not AT ALL imply that God can enter into ANOTHER individual, and that individual can also be named as Brahma.
SUCH IS THE TREACHEROUS TWISTING OF THE PURE VERSIONS OF GOD BY Ravan OR Maya TO COMPLETELY TRICK AND FOOL THE BLIND PBKs!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 18 Sep 2014

मैं जब आता हूँ तो किसको भी पता नहीं पड़ता है; क्योंकि हैं गुप्त। तुम बच्चे भी हो गुप्त। ... प्रवेश कब किया, कब रथ में पधारा, मालूम नहीं पड़ता। (मु.26.1.68 पृ.1 आदि)
No one can know when I come, because I am incognito. You children are also incognito. ... When I entered, when I came in the Chariot, cannot be known. [Mu.12-4-76 Pg-1]


AIVV - PBK : गुलजार दादी में प्रवेशता का पता पड़ जाता है। = The entry into Gulzar Dadi is known.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : As said earlier- It is not just Shiva entering. It is both Shiv and Brahma Baba entering there.

Many are of the WRONG understanding that the body of DG jerks on the entry of ShivBaba and BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani, which is incorrect. The body of DG jerks on the EXIT or MERGING of the consciousness of DG in the subtle awareness. Only when, after a short while, the eyes of DG actually open once again, and the lights are turned on, the actual entry of both ShivBaba and BB-Lekhraj Kirpalani together is UNDERSTOOD to have taken place. The actual second when this entry occurs cannot be determined on a gross level, since it is between the jerk of the body and the opening of the eyes!

WHEN EXACTLY ShivBaba COMES IN PRAJAPITA Brahma OR Brahma Baba, WHILE HE WAS IN Sakar, CANNOT BE KNOWN; SIMILARLY, WHEN, BOTH BapDada, ACTUALLY ENTER THE INSTRUMENTAL CORPOREAL BODY OF DG (THE EXACT MOMENT) CANNOT BE KNOWN!

It is by TREACHEROUSLY TWISTING such simple points of PURE Knowledge of God, that Ravan or Maya SUCCEEDS in DECEIVING & TRAPPING the BLIND PBKs through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 23 Sep 2014

गीताएॅं, ग्रंथ आदि जो भी बनाते हैं तो उनमें कोई addition वा काटकूट नहीं करते हैं। वही सुनाते हैं। यहाँ add भी किया जाता है। काटकूट भी किया जाता है। (मु.4.7.72 पृ.4 आदि)
Any addition or cutting is not done in the Gita, Granth, etc, which are published. The same is spoken. Here addition also takes place. Cutting also takes place. [Mu.4.7.72 Pg-4]


AIVV - PBK : Baba is clearly saying in Murli that at Brahmakumari Institution addition and cutting of Murlis are done. Is this right ? When PBKs bring out the truth to BKs through the Murli points then BKs either neglect those mulri points or say that these points are your own invention. Even some senior BKs either cut the Murli point or alter it in order to hide the truth from public.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Baba says- corrections will happen. See post No. 36 and 37 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ions#p4088

Post No. 87- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... ons#p11854

Also addressed in the topic -
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t ... ing#p47896 and
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t ... ons#p48537

ShivBaba is merely stating what takes place in PBKIVV or BKWSU in the above point, and He has given reasons also, for such requirements, in various other Versions.

Viewers may also refer to point nr 5 in the post dated 25.02.16, below -
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t ... =60#p51055

"= 5. घड़ी-घड़ी तुम बच्चों को नई-नई प्वाइंट्स मिलती रहती हैं तो चेंज करना पड़े, कुछ न कुछ चेंज कर अक्षर डाल देना चाहिए।
"You children continue to receive new points and so you have to KEEP CHANGING. You should CHANGE something or other and place more words."

The Righteous Children are CLEARLY aware of what needs to be CHANGED, in PERFECT ACCORDANCE with the CLEAR DIRECTIVES of REAL ShivBaba or God.

The Unrighteous children, as usual, consider such 'changes' to be in violation of God’s directives, owing to their INVERTED INTELLECTS, while they themselves CONTINUE to COMPLETELY MISINTERPRET & MISAPPROPRIATE the Pure Knowledge of REAL ShivBaba, by CORRUPTING & ADULTERATING EACH and EVERY point in the SMs and AVs, to be in consonance with the PERVERTED & DISTORTED CONCEPTS of ‘Tamopradhan Bhakti’ or DEGRADED DEVOTION! ="

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 02 Oct 2014

When the Father is so great, then he should come in the body of a king or a pure body of an ascetic. Ascetics (sanyasis) are anyhow pure. Baba can come in the body of a pure kanya (spinster). But there’s no such rule. How can Father sit (i.e. enter the body of) in a Kumari (a spinster)? Father sits and explains about the person in whom he enters. I enter into the body of that soul only which takes complete 84 births. Not even a day lesser. [15.10.69. P2]

AIVV - PBK : Is Gulzar Dadi not a pure kanya(spinster) ? Then how can BKs claim that Shiv enter in her during Avyakt BapDada program ? BKs are simply neglecting the words of Shiva which are like lines drawn on stone. Also in the Murlis it has been said that Indians(Bharatwasis) have gone degradation due to hearsay(believing in what others have said without using their own intellect)

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Post No. 121b) here- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... age#p12448

This has already been also adequately addressed in the earlier post dated 03 Sep 14, in this topic -
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2642#p47729

It is by TREACHEROUSLY TWISTING such simple points of PURE Knowledge of God, that Ravan or Maya SUCCEEDS in DECEIVING & TRAPPING the BLIND PBKs, (through the 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, -Virendra Dev Dixit), WHO HAVE CLEARLY GONE INTO DEGRADATION DUE TO HEARSAY ONLY, AND TOTAL INABILITY TO USE THEIR OWN INTELLECTS INDEPENDENTLY, OWING TO THEIR STONE INTELLECTS!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 19 Oct 2014

Chances are good in Delhi. You will see later, death is staring at the world. First, you used to write 10 years, now you write 9 years. Deity religion will be established in India within 9 years, and various religions will be destroyed, as it had happened in the previous Kalpa (cycle of 5000 years).
[30-1-69, Pg-2, Night Class]


AIVV - PBK : The declaration of the destruction of the world in 1976, and arrival of new world was made in Murli. The BKs took the above Murli point in limited sense and believed that world would be destroyed in 1976 and they would enter into the Golden Aged world. However in the Murlis Shiv has also said that unlimited Father speaks unlimited words to unlimited children, but children take it in limited sense. When the destruction did not took place in 1976, then many Kumar BKs got married and big maharathis(warriors) in BKs developed a doubting intellect, as if they were dead from knowledge. But they did not have any other option, also major Dadis had already left their worldly family long ago.
However the words spoken by Shiva are like lines drawn on stone. It is not the fault of Shiv if BKs took the meaning in limited sense. The unlimited meaning of the above Murli point was that in Murlis only Baba has said that this Brahmin family is like a small world in this big world. So Shiv declared about this BKs world that it would end in 1976. When they(BKs) developed a doubting intellect in 1976 it was like a destruction in BK world. And a new gathering called Advance Party(PBKs) got ready, i.e. a new world was established. 'Deity religion will be established in India' means that representative of India(Bharat), i.e. Virendra Dev Dixit(leader of PBKs world) will burn it's vices and wicked resolves and become constant in remembrance. Because everything has to start from scratch, nothing could be done all of a sudden. This was the unlimited meaning which Shiva later clarified and is still clarifying through his permanent corporeal medium Shankar(Virendra Dev Dixit). Also the Murli points related to destruction in 1976 are kept hidden from BKs that entered in knowledge after 1976 so that their business continue to flourish and they can keep making palaces for themselves.


PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : To say destruction (of BKs leaving Yagya) had started in BKWSU only in 1976 has NO LOGIC WHATSOEVER. Much bigger incident had taken place during beggary period, when around 80% (of the initial 400, just around 80 survived) had left. And, BKWSU has been developing at a much faster pace than ever before, is it not? WHICH PROVES THE COMPLETE NONSENSE DECLARED BY BODILY GURU OF PBKs, Virendra Dev Dixit, AND BLINDLY BELIEVED BY THE PBKs, OWING TO THEIR STONE INTELLECTS!

Also- see posts No. 55, 91 and 92 - http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593.

According to a PBK - "So Shiv declared about this BKs world that it would end in 1976".
REAL ShivBaba made NO SUCH declaration about the BK world, and the BK world CONTINUES till today. Ravan or Maya, through 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, made such MALICIOUS declaration, FOOLING the BLIND PBKs, by saying that same had an 'unlimited' meaning!

According to a PBK - "When they(BKs) developed a doubting intellect in 1976 it was like a destruction in BK world."
Another MALICIOUS declaration by Ravan or Maya. There was NO DESTRUCTION of the BK world. ON THE CONTRARY, those who developed a doubting intellect were the UNRIGHTEOUS children, most of whom became PBKs, and the PURE Knowledge of REAL ShivBaba was DESTROYED from their intellect, when they were BRAIN-WASHED with the CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED reversed advanced knowledge. Hence it was the PBKs who were ACTUALLY DESTROYED!

According to a PBK - "And a new gathering called Advance Party(PBKs) got ready, i.e. a new world was established."
The 'new world' of Ravan Rajya was established by Ravan through the 'mukarar-rath' of Ravan, Virendra Dev Dixit, in the 'shooting' period of Ravan Rajya, in the latter part of Confluence Age, and the PURE Versions in the SMs and AVs were PERVERTED & ADULTERATED to be in ACCURATE CONSONANCE with the CORRUPTED & DISTORTED CONCEPTS of Ravan Rajya!

According to a PBK - "Deity religion will be established in India' means that representative of India(Bharat), i.e. Virendra Dev Dixit(leader of PBKs world) will burn it's vices and wicked resolves and become constant in remembrance."
ON THE CONTRARY, the CHIEF representative or 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan, Virendra Dev Dixit, leader of the PBK world of Ravan Rajya, was ACTUALLY BURNING in the VICES, by physically copulating with the PBK kanyas & matas, BY COMPLETELY TRICKING them into DELUSIVELY BELIEVING that he was 'Shankar', and they were 'Jagadamba' or 'Parvatis', and that he was performing the act of physical copulation with them in remembrance of REAL ShivBaba, when, IN FACT, he was under the VICIOUS GRIP of Ravan or Maya, instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 05 Dec 2014

ईश्वर तो है निराकार। उनके साथ लव तो साकार में चाहिए ना। निराकार को कैसे लव करेंगे ?
(मु. 1.1.72 पृ.1 आदि)
God is incorporeal. You have to love him in the corporeal, is it not? How would you love the incorporeal? [Mu. 1.1.72 Pg-1]


AIVV - PBK : Above Murli point says that love for God is possible through a corporeal medium, we cannot love incorporeal point of light. What do majority of BK's do ? They consider point of light to be God and try to develop love for the point. Other point, can we consider Brahma Baba(Lekhraj Kirpalani) to be corporeal ? He has already left his corporeal body way back in 1969. Other option could be BK Gulzar Dadi, but we know that in Murlis it has been said that Shiv won't ride on a virgin whereas Gulzar Dadi is a virgin(refer to previous Murli points posted by me). Then who is the corporeal medium of Shiv for which above Murli point is applicable ? Answer :- Virendra Dev Dixit

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Read the next two sentences in the Murli point. It says(approx) - Ishwar ko praay karne ke liye vah Ishwar ko jaanthay hee naheen.= To love God, they do not know him.

Baba is highlighting about his incarnation. After having knowledge, there is no need of physical dependency. - Post No. 147- Mu point No. 5) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... atn#p12911

Baba is clearly saying that majority are born through thoughts. So, definitely God is not in Kampil with Mr Dixit.

One is able to Love Incorporeal God ONLY INDIRECTLY, when He comes in a corporeal body, (THROUGH the embodied soul into whom He comes), ONLY as LONG AS the individual soul is ALSO in the corporeal consciousness. Due to the RESTRICTION of the corporeal consciousness, an embodied BODY-CONSCIOUS soul CANNOT Love Incorporeal God, UNLESS He TOO comes in a corporeal body. That is EXACTLY the reason why Supreme Father Supreme Soul, ShivBaba or God advises body-conscious souls to become SOUL-CONSCIOUS, like Himself, so that, ONLY AFTER THAT, it would be possible to Love Incorporeal God DIRECTLY, as incorporeal souls (WITHOUT the medium of any embodied soul, in EITHER CORPOREAL or SUBTLE form)!

Hence REAL ShivBaba or God comes into the corporeal body of DLR to enable the principal sovereigns of
G A and S A to experience the Love of Incorporeal God, through a corporeal medium, while they themselves are TOTALLY TRAPPED in BODY-CONSCIOUSNESS, and therefore can ONLY EXPERIENCE the Love of Incorporeal God while He Himself is ALSO in the corporeal medium of DLR. Once the CONCERNED souls make efforts and CHANGE their consciousness from CORPOREAL to SUBTLE, NUMBER-WISE, it is NO LONGER necessary for God to continue using a corporeal medium, owing to severe restrictions and limitations of the corporeal body. Hence, after 1969, when soul of DLR becomes 'Avyakt Farishta' or COMPLETE ANGEL, REAL ShivBaba continues to use the VERY SAME PERMANENT/FIXED/APPOINTED Chariot of God to continue to sustain CONCERNED Children, who are able to experience the Love of Incorporeal God, through a subtle medium, since they themselves HAVE SINCE DEVELOPED a subtle consciousness, still making efforts to attain the 'seed' stage or complete soul-consciousness. Once the CONCERNED souls become COMPLETELY SOUL-CONSCIOUS, NUMBER-WISE, they are then able to experience the Love of Incorporeal God DIRECTLY, as incorporeal souls, WITHOUT the need for any medium, EITHER CORPOREAL or SUBTLE!

The issue regarding 'Shiv not riding a virgin' has already been also adequately addressed in the earlier post dated 03 Sep 14, in this topic -
http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2642#p47729

Virendra Dev Dixit is the corporeal medium or 'mukrar-rath' of Ravan or Maya, MASQUERADING as (APPARENT) 'ShivBaba' or (FALSE) 'Prajapita Brahma', instrumental to carry out the 'shooting' of Ravan Rajya, specifically in the latter part of Confluence Age. Hence ALL THE MISINTERPRETATIONS & MISREPRESENTATIONS of the PURE Versions in the SMs and AVs of REAL ShivBaba or God, in ACCURATE CONSONANCE with the CORRUPTED & DISTORTED CONCEPTS of Ravan Rajya, ARE PERFECTLY IN ABSOLUTE ACCORDANCE WITH DRAMA!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 07 Dec 2014

शिव ने शंकर में प्रवेश किया तो शिव-शंकर को मिला देते हैं। (मु. 16.2.73 पृ. मध्यांत)
Shiv entered into Shankar, so they mix Shiv with Shankar. [Mu. 1.1.72 Pg-1]


AIVV - PBK : Above point fully clears that Shiv enters in Shankar also. This Murli point is solid proof for BKs who ask for point of Shiv entering in Shankar from Murlis.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Error No. 02- http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593
Mostly, Baba is saying negatively. There is need to get adjacent sentences.

SAT view : "Above point FULLY CLEARS that Shiv enters in Shankar also" - ONLY for ALL THOSE STUPID IDIOTS ('maha-murkh') who take ISOLATED Murli points TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT, WITHOUT HAVING READ or WITHOUT BEING AWARE of the actual contents of the COMPLETE Murli, so as to CORRECTLY be able to comprehend what Shiv is actually trying to convey to the RIGHTEOUS Children. This Murli point is SOLID PROOF, CLEARLY CONFIRMING THE STARK STUPIDITY OF SUCH RAVING IDIOTS.
Here Shiv Himself is NOT stating that, "Shiv entered into Shankar", but he is INDICATING that the 'devotees' of the outer world, (whose 'shooting' is going on in the Confluence Age through such RAVING IDIOTS), THINK or SAY that "Shiv entered into Shankar", so SUCH IDIOTS MIX Shiv with Shankar!

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