VIEWS on "Murli points for churning and inculcation"

To discuss the BK and PBK versions relating to the progressive differential development of BK & PBK ideologies or theologies.
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shivsena
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Re: Murli Points

Post by shivsena » 08 Dec 2014

Abhimanyu wrote: शिव ने शंकर में प्रवेश किया तो शिव-शंकर को मिला देते हैं। (मु. 16.2.73 पृ. मध्यांत)

Above point fully clears that Shiv enter in Shankar also. This Murli point is solid proof for BKs who asks for point of Shiv entry in Shankar from Murlis.
Abhimanya Bhai.....the above Murli point is misprinted....we must see the full Murli to see what is written before and after the statement.....please read the original Murli point below which contradicts the above point.

Mu:9-7-68: "Vishnu aur Shankar ko rath nahin banna padta."
According to the above point, supposed Shankar partdhari(-Virendra Dev Dixit) does not become rath-Chariot of Shiva....then why do PBKs insist that Shiv enters Shankar(-Virendra Dev Dixit) and Shiv is going to be revealed as Shankar.....this point is hidden by -Virendra Dev Dixit and not printed in any of aivv literature because it goes against -Virendra Dev Dixit being Shankar.

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Re: Murli Points

Post by arjun » 08 Dec 2014

If Shiv does not enter in Shankar at all then why is only the name of Shankar prefixed to Shiv's name on the path of Bhakti????

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : = RESPONSE =

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t ... 801#p50801

More are put here- Post No. 98- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 130#p12329

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 21 Dec 2014

ShivBaba bestows inheritance to Brahmakumaris and Brahmakumars through Prajapita Brahma. ShivBaba creates the Brahmin race through Brahma. [1.3.76, pg.1]

AIVV - PBK : We all know that through Lekhraj Kirpalani Brahmin race was created but inheritance of heaven was not given as Lekhraj Kirpalani left his body in 1969. Then according to above Murli point who is Prajapita Brahma through whom inheritance of heaven will be given ? Answer -: Virendra Dev Dixit

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : No Murli point says property will be given while DLR would be alive in his corporeal body, but he is STILL VERY MUCH MORE ALIVE in his subtle body NOW, very much ACTIVELY INVOLVED in SUSTAINING the concerned Brahmin children who have developed their 'akari' consciousness, NUMBER-WISE.

REAL Prajapita Brahma and Brahma Baba or soul of DLR are ONE and the SAME. REAL ShivBaba or God is speaking of a SPIRITUAL INHERITANCE, which has to be acquired by individual souls through ACCURATE & UNADULTERATED REMEMBRANCE of REAL ShivBaba or God. This SPIRITUAL INHERITANCE is NOT a PHYSICAL OBJECT, which requires a corporeal medium, to hand over from one corporeal hand to another corporeal hand. This MISINTERPRETATION or MISREPRESENTATION of the above Murli point by Virendra Dev Dixit and his BLIND followers ADEQUATELY PROVES that their INTELLECTS are COMPLETELY INVERTED and FULLY IMMERSED in TOTAL BODY-CONSCIOUSNESS!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 06 Apr 2015

The directions of the Supreme Father are the greatest and those of the remaining people are devilish directions. Father is the only truth. [Mu 3-5-70 Pg-1]

AIVV - PBK : There are many directions given by senior Didi, Dadas in Brahmakumari Ashram that are against Shrimat. Here is the list of those directions that are given in Murlis and in square brackets [] are the directions that are contradictory to it -:
(1) Brahma's photo should not be kept. [But what we see is that at every BK center Brahma's photo is kept]
(2) Virgins should not give drishti to the seekers. [At many centers it could be seen that a Sister sits on sandhali and gives drishti]
(3) Bhog(offering), Dhyan, Didar(visions) are all wastage of time. [Whereas in every BK center Bhog is offered on fixed day of a week]
... and many more
So aren't all these devilish directions(in [] brackets) given on own manmat(opinion) from bodily human gurus sitting in Brahmakumari Ashrams?


PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK :
Mu Point:- Prajapita kaa alag photo honaa chaahiye = "there should be a separate photo of Prajapita". Sorry, there is no date at present.

Regarding drusthi- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... hti#p10992

Regarding offering Bhog, tying rakhis, etc- http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t= ... hog#p42050

(1) Brahma's photo should not be kept. [But what we see is that at every BK center Brahma's photo is kept]
Brahma's photo should NOT BE KEPT WITH INTENTION of WORSHIPING BRAHMA or CONSIDERING BRAHMA to be GOD or WITH a Bhakti CONSCIOUSNESS.
If this is done with above WRONG INTENTIONS or ATTITUDES then that would BE WRONG!
Brahma's photo is VERY MUCH REQUIRED to be kept AS A MATTER OF INTRODUCTION, FOR THE BENEFIT OF NEW SOULS, AS A REMINDER OF WHOM WE SHOULD FOLLOW - UNTIL ALL OF US ACHIEVE THE SAME STATE OF CONSCIOUSNESS AS BRAHMA!

(2) Virgins should not give drishti to the seekers. [At many centers it could be seen that a Sister sits on sandhali and gives drishti]
Virgins, whose VISION STILL FLUCTUATES and who are INEXPERIENCED, should NOT GIVE dhristi to the new seekers, since BOTH of them can be DRAWN INTO BODY-CONSCIOUSNESS and LUSTFUL FEELINGS, by Ravan or Maya. Only EXPERIENCED BROTHERS & SISTERS are authorized by God to perform this task for uplift of concerned souls.

(3) Bhog(offering), Dhyan, Didar(visions) are all wastage of time. [Whereas in every BK center Bhog is offered on fixed day of a week]
Bhog, Dhyan, Didar are all WASTAGE OF TIME, IF PERFORMED IN Bhakti CONSCIOUSNESS! But may be performed, within limits, with COMPLETE AWARENESS of Knowledge given by REAL ShivBaba or God, with the aim to PRACTICE and PROGRESS TOWARDS SOUL-CONSCIOUSNESS!

FROM THE ABOVE IT BECOMES EVIDENT THAT Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs ONLY TAKE HALF-BAKED MISINTERPRETED & MISREPRESENTED Knowledge from the SMs and AVs, OWING TO THEIR INVERTED INTELLECTS, thus COMPLETELY TRAPPING THEMSELVES IN BODY-CONSCIOUSNESS and REMAINING IN THE VICIOUS GRIP of Ravan or Maya, UNTIL the time of DESTRUCTION or TRANSFORMATION!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 07 Apr 2015

If Shankar wasn't there, I [Shiva] wouldn't have been mixed up with Shankar. They have prepared his picture and mixed me also with Shankar. They call him Shiv-Shankar-Mahadev. Hence he becomes Mahadev (Greatest of all the deities). [Mu 23-6-70]

AIVV - PBK : This is another point from Murli that clearly indicates that Shankar exists in this corporeal world and is mixed with Shiva because he is the only soul that achieves 100% incorporeal stage like Shiva. Shankar is also called Mahadev and deities would be created by the Greatest Deity(i.e. Mahadev Shankar) only just like an Engineer would create engineers, Doctor would create doctors, ... and Brahma(Lekhraj Kirpalani) would create Brahmins.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : The above Murli point has been COMPLETELY MISAPPROPRIATED by -Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs. The point implies that IF there had been no (FALSE belief/concept of) Shankar (in Bhaktimarg), Shiva would not had been mixed up with Shankar.
[An example of how PBKs have misinterpreted in Error No. 02- here - http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593#p48662

Shankar definitely exists, but he NEVER comes to play a part or role in 'Sakar' in a corporeal body, like Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God.
Viewers may also see the post dated 07 Feb 16, below -
http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=40&t ... kar#p50967
BKWSU SM, Revised 02.02.2016 wrote: शंकर तो कभी पार्ट में आता नहीं
Shankar NEVER comes to play a part.
The MOST BENEVOLENT ACT of 'DESTRUCTION' of EVIL or FINAL TRANSFORMATION is ACTUALLY initiated, and therefore accomplished, by Supreme Father Supreme Soul, REAL ShivBaba or God, and NOT Shankar. Shankar is only a SYMBOLIC REPRESENTATION of the ACT of 'DESTRUCTION' (which is ACTUALLY an ACT of God), and Shankar is used ONLY for apportioning the 'blame' for this APPARENTLY or SEEMINGLY 'SORROWFUL or PAINFUL' ACT to himself, rather than to Shiva, (who is REMOVER OF SORROW & BESTOWER OF HAPPINESS), since body-conscious souls CANNOT comprehend that the "THE GREAT MAHABHARATA WAR IS EXTREMELY BENEVOLENT"! On account of this FACT, Shiva is mixed with Shankar by souls who are body-conscious.
Also, the sentence, "Hence he becomes Mahadev", should ACTUALLY be written as, "Hence He becomes Mahadev"! The sentence refers to Shiva, and NOT to Shankar!
The CORRECT, UNCORRUPTED meaning of this is NOT that 'Shankar' is a GREAT Deity (or the GREATEST among Deities), but that Shiva, who ACTUALLY plays the role of Shankar, is GREATER than any Deity, since He is the Supreme Soul and 'Nirakar', or having NEITHER a corporeal or subtle body of his own!
SUCH SUBTLEST ASPECTS of Knowledge CANNOT be PROPERLY COMPREHENDED by souls with CORRUPTED & INVERTED INTELLECTS, like -Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs!

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 10 Apr 2015

Everyone else gives bad advice. It will make you stupid. Now I am making you good. I am the greatest, so I will make you the highest. Therefore, you must follow that Shrimat. If you follow anyone else's advice, you will be deceived. [2-4-73 Pg- 2,3]

AIVV - PBK : What are BKs doing. They don't have respect for Murlis that contain Godly Shrimat. Here I list few points that are according to Shrimat but completely violated by BKs at every centre -:
(1) Brahma's photo should not be kept.
(2) Virgins should not give drishti to seekers.
(3) Practices of Bhaktimarg should not be followed. [But it is seen that BKs would offer Bhog on some fixed day of week. They would celebrate Shivjyanti like people of outside world do. Even they would organize dances, celebrate Holi, sing songs and so on.]

Leave behind the matter of following Shrimat, they(BKs) were used to destroying Murlis(containing Shrimat) before 1969 by not keeping the stock of those Murlis safe. Whatever Murlis that are being revised in Bk centres are limited and does not cover all the Murlis narrated through DLR from period of 1952 to 1969. Instead BKs of those time were more inclined toward eating toli(i.e. having Bhog).


PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Post No. 71- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... heez#p9796

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 14 Apr 2015

Those who do not take 84 births will not be able to understand anything properly.[Mu.13-7-71 Pg-2]

AIVV - PBK : There are many Murli points posted by me above which are not within the grasp of BKs or followers of other groups except PBKs.
BKs don't give importance to Murli or they infer those Murli points in a limited way with their limited intellect.
And the situation of other groups leaving PBK is that they cannot give crystal clear, deep, unlimited, true clarification of Murlis as given by Virendra Dev Dixit.
Thus, the above Murli point is applicable to all these groups(leaving PBK). They are unable to understand anything properly no matter how much true knowledge is presented before them because they are the ones who don't take 84 births, i.e. they will have 83, 82, 81 ... births. And the souls which don't take 84 births will be called weak souls (because they won't become firm deities by taking complete 84 births) and they would get converted to other religions since the commencement of Copper Age and would thus deceive the Bharatwasis(Indians).


PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Blunders of Mr Virendra Dev Dixit can be clearly seen here- http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&start=435

http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 15 Apr 2015

Father cannot go to large gatherings. This is children's work. (Father will) ask questions and get answers from children. Sanyasis etc. will not meet Father face to face. They want respect and. Baba's role is very wonderful. [Mu 12-10-72 Pg-2]

AIVV - PBK : What happens at Mini Madhuban(of Brahmakumaris) in Mt. Abu ? A large gathering of thousands of BK occur in the hall. But Baba says in the above Murli point that he won't go to large gatherings. So doesn't the above Murli point proves that Shiv does not enter Gulzar Dadi and only soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani enters to speak Avyakt Vani.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Already posted. This is a duplicate post.

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 17 Apr 2015

Father has explained that Shankar does not have so much of a role to play. He is next to Shiva.
[Mu 8-3-76 Pg-2]


AIVV - PBK : This Murli pt. is incorrectly interpreted by BKs that Shankar has no part in this corporeal world. If Shankar has no part in this world then why idols of Shankar are worshiped. Someone is only praised or worshiped if he has done some great task and task is done on this corporeal world not in Subtle Region. Regarding the above pt. that Shankar does not have so much of a role to play means that he constantly remembers Shiva and remembering is not a role to be acted through organs of action.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK :Yet to know fully regarding Shankar. But, PBK concept of Shankar goes against the Murli points. Some view is here- already put - Post No. 98- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 1&start=10

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 19 Apr 2015

Souls of other religions will not understand (this knowledge).Their mind will be diverted to other things. They will not be attracted so much. [Mu.17-10-72 Pg-2]

AIVV - PBK : Are BK and other groups able to understand the true advance knowledge given to PBKs through permanent Chariot(Virendra Dev Dixit) of Shiv.
Basic knowledge of BK Murlis will be not called true knowledge(i.e. nectar) because nectar emerges when something is churned.
When milk is churned then butter emerges. Similarly the Murlis delivered through Lekhraj Kirpalani by Shiva is not nectar because it was not churned by any of the BKs. No effort was made to understand the deep hidden meaning of those Murlis. Whereas it is just the opposite in PBKs. Effort was made by Shankar(Virendra Dev Dixit) to churn those Murlis and extract the nectar out of it. Thus the above Murli point clarifies that souls of other religions will not understand(this advance knowledge). Their(BKs) mind is diverted to other things of Bhaktimarg like organizing dance, songs, plays, Bhog(that is offered on some special day of a week), conferences and many other things.
No effort is made by them to churn those Murlis. Also they are not attracted so much to the true knowledge(i.e. advance knowledge) given by Shiva through Shankar(Virendra Dev Dixit).


PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Murli Point is said for lowkik religions.

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 20 Apr 2015

Your soul and body both will become like gold (kanchan). This is wonderful, is not it? So you have to decorate (adorn) yourself like that. [Mu 2-11-70 Pg-1]

AIVV - PBK : In above Murli point Baba clearly says that both our soul as well as body will become like gold. But what does BKs say and believe, they believe that bodies of all the souls will be destroyed in final destruction. When the question is asked that how will children like Radha and Krishna be born in Golden Age, they simply say that star like souls will descend from sky and would get their respective bodies as soon as the star(soul) touches the earth. Well that is humorous. How could bodies be created just by soul touching the earth. Well the above point clarifies that body too would be made kanchan. So there must be some special group among effort makers who would transform their body into kanchan kaya right in this birth and would be instrumental in giving birthto children like Radha and Krishna. That group is of PBKs and their leader Virendra Dev Dixit and Vedanti(currently a BK who will later convert herself into PBK) would form pair and be called Confluence Age Lakshmi-Narayan and would also beinstrumental in giving birth to children Krishna and Radha of Golden Age.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Many Murli points say- your old body would perish and clearly SAY THAT THE PRESENT BODY WOULD NOT BECOME PURE.

BTW, Baba uses some words in different ways - For example - Rejuvenate. - http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t ... ate#p34652

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 21 Apr 2015

Not that children are welcoming Baapdada. No, Baba cannot be welcomed; Baba will come on His own will. (12.4.76, Pg.1)

AIVV - PBK : What happens at Mt. Abu when there is Avyakt BapDada program. Gulzar Dadi sits in dhyan and soul of Krishna(DLR) is invoked. But according to the above Murli point Baba(referred to Shiva here) cannot be welcomed because he comes on his own will. This is so because Shiv does not have ego of body as he does not possess his own own body, thus he doesn't need respect but it is not the same case with human souls, they have ego of body due to which they need respect. So cannot we conclude from the above Murli point that it is only the soul of Brahma(DLR) that enters Gulzar Dadi and not the soul of Shiva.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : This Murli point was spoken for period before 1969 when no. of children were less, and ShivBaba used to come almost daily. But, later when no, of children increased, obviously, children have to book train tickets in advance. Also- baba has said- Old points will not come into use.

And- ShivBaba is egoless, so why not come when children call him or fix date?

But, AIVV gives information to their Gita paathashaalas in advance about arrival of Mr Dixit. Why?

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 23 Apr 2015

Whenever Father comes, does anyone come to know about it? No. One cannot even know. 15.3.73. P4.

AIVV - PBK : In the case of Gulzar Dadi when their is entry of Avyakt BapDada then everyone sitting in the hall comes to know about it. Whereas according to the above Murli point entry of Father Shiv cannot be known. So cannot we conclude that only soul of Brahma(Lekhraj Kirpalani) enters Gulzar Dadi and not the soul of Shiv.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Repeated post. It is both Bap and Dada coming in Dadi, not just Shiv.

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Re: Murli Points

Post by Abhimanyu » 24 Apr 2015

There is also a saying that those who could not get three feet of land, became the masters of the whole world. People never understand this. [1-5-73 Pg-2]

AIVV - PBK : BKs get three feet of land, leave aside that they possess multi-storied building with all the luxurious facilities including AC, fridge, sofa, tv, etc. It is PBKs(complete PBKs) who do not get three feet of land. Those who say that ShivBaba(Virendra Dev Dixit) got they are wrong because for what land is required ? It is for residence and protection of one's life. But Virendra Dev Dixit did not got land where he could stay at in a permanent form. Meaning nobody gave him residence and guaranteed that he could live there and protection would be given to his life. Thus, he did not get three feet of land. But he will become the master of the whole world in near future which is what the above Murli point also states. Brahma(Lekhraj Kirpalani) has already left his body so for him becoming the master of whole world doesn't arises at all .Thus the above point is perfectly applicable to Virendra Dev Dixit.

PBKIVV or BKWSU - BK : Baba is comparing to lowkik world. Also, still at some place, centres are quite poor and rented.

As time changes, situations will change

SM 13-11-83(2):- Baba apney pass kabhi bhi oonchi vastu nahin rakhte. Kahthay hain itnaa makaan banaayaa hai, vah bhi bachchon ke rahne ke liye banaayaa. Nahin toh bachche kahaan aakar rahenge. EK DIN TOH SAB MAKAAN APNEY HAATH AA JAAYENGE. Bhagavaan ke dar par bhakton ki bheed toh honi hi hai na. -46 [prediction]

12-08-72(3):- Abhee tum sammukh sunte ho. Aur bachche tape se sunenge. Ek din TeleVision par bhee dekhenge. Aise mat samajhnaa yah mahangee cheez yahaan naheen aa saktee hai. Sabhee kuch hogaa. Pichadeevaalon ke liye aur hee sahaj ho jaavegaa. Himmate bachche madade baap. Yah bhee prabandh ho jaavegaa. Service karnevaale achche honge to yah bhee sabhee prabandh ho jaavegaa bachchon kee unnati ke liye. Vah bhee jisko chaahiye le sakte hain.

= Now, you listen in front. Other children listen through tape. One day- you will see even in TV. Don’t think that costly items will not come here. Everything will come. FOR THOSE WHO COME IN THE END, IT WILL BECOME MORE EASIER…..

Better take all the relevant Murli points instead of just isolated ones

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Re: Murli Points

Post by shivsena » 25 Apr 2015

Abhimanyu wrote:Thus, he did not get three feet of land. But he will become the master of the whole world in near future which is what the above Murli point also states.Thus the above point is perfectly applicable to Veerendra Dev Dixit.[/color]
What about the big Aivv ashram at Rohini-Delhi, which is in the name of your Baba and Kamala Devi??
Does a person who is going to be revealed as GOD-ShivBaba buy land in his OWN name ??

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