Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and others?

For newcomers to the BKWSU, AIVV and this forum.
User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by shivsena » 08 Jul 2015

arjun wrote: ShivBaba through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit says that angels are not worshipped in the temples. It is the souls whose body as well as the soul becomes pure are worshipped as complete deities.
Is Brahma-Lekhraj Kirpalani learning to be a Devta or Farishta through the body of -Virendra Dev Dixit ??

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11523
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by arjun » 10 Jul 2015

shivsena wrote:Is Brahma-Lekhraj Kirpalani learning to be a Devta or Farishta through the body of -Virendra Dev Dixit ??
He has already left his body and can become a deity (Krishna) only in the next birth which he will get from the Confluence Age Lakshmi and Narayan.

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11523
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by arjun » 10 Jul 2015

khemkaran wrote:Brahma, Saraswati, Shankar, Parvati, Durga, Kali, Ganesh, Hanuman, etc., are all representative Sangamyugi Angels, who have performed PRACTICAL ACTIONS in the Confluence Age, and who are thus worshiped in the temples, owing to the PRACTICAL demonstration of their PRACTICAL deeds in the Confluence Age, through CORPOREAL PHYSICAL BODIES, AFTER which they become ELEVATED to the status of Angels, as the EVIDENT fruit or PROOF of their efforts in their corporeal bodies. While in their corporeal bodies, they were incomplete, and become complete ONLY when they achieve the status of Angels. So what should be worshiped, an incomplete form or a complete form???
ShivBaba doesn't give us the aim to become complete after leaving the body. He says that the Golden Age sovereignty is your birth right, i.e. something to be achieved in this very birth and not in the next birth. But if you like to become complete after leaving your body, I have no objection.

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by shivsena » 12 Jul 2015

arjun wrote: He has already left his body and can become a deity (Krishna) only in the next birth which he will get from the Confluence Age Lakshmi and Narayan.
We all know that brahma-Lekhraj Kirpalani has left the body in 1969 and will become Krishna in Satyug...but what is his role in the body of -Virendra Dev Dixit??....What is he learning from -Virendra Dev Dixit ??

User avatar
Abhimanyu
Posts: 270
Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a PBK. I want to join this forum so that I can share my thoughts of knowledge presently being given by ShivBaba among BKs and PBKs.
Location: India

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by Abhimanyu » 12 Jul 2015

shivsena wrote: We all know that brahma-Lekhraj Kirpalani has left the body in 1969 and will become Krishna in Satyug...but what is his role in the body of -Virendra Dev Dixit??....What is he learning from -Virendra Dev Dixit ??
Brahma(Lekhraj Kirpalani) has still not become complete, otherwise he would have achieved karmateet stage and left for the supreme abode. He is still a student.
The correct answer of the question: "Who is the God of Gita?" (Answer being: Shiv-Shankar Bholenath), has still not fitted into his intellect. He still considers himself to be the 'God of Gita'.
So, the main study for recognition of 'God of Gita' is still going on for the child Krishna. The moment it fits into his intellect that I(Krishna) am not 'God of Gita' in corporeal form, but Shiv-Shankar Bholenath is 'God of Gita', then he will stop entering into Gulzar Dadi.
The basis of everyone becoming pure, lies on Brahma(Lekhraj Kirpalani).
That's why it has been said in Murlis -
"Ek ke patit banney se sab patit ban jate hain; aur ek ke pavan banney se sab pavan ban jate hain."
("When one becomes impure, then everyone becomes impure; and when one becomes pure, then everyone becomes pure").
Hence, the soul of Brahma is studying the advance knowledge(for realization of the answer to who being actual 'God of Gita') by entering Virendra Dev Dixit(Ram + Shiv) or Shiv-Shankar Bholenath.

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by shivsena » 12 Jul 2015

Abhimanyu wrote: So, the main study for recognition of 'God of Gita' is still going on for the child Krishna. The moment it fits into his intellect that I(Krishna) am not 'God of Gita' in corporeal form, but Shiv-Shankar Bholenath is 'God of Gita', then he will stop entering into Gulzar Dadi.
If shiv-Shankar bholenath is going to be revealed as God of Gita, then why this is not remembered in Bhakti-marg and why this is never mentioned in any Murli-Vani ??

User avatar
arjun
PBK
Posts: 11523
Joined: 01 May 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to exchange views with past and present members of BKWSU and its splinter groups
Location: India

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by arjun » 14 Jul 2015

shivsena wrote:If shiv-Shankar bholenath is going to be revealed as God of Gita, then why this is not remembered in Bhakti-marg and why this is never mentioned in any Murli-Vani ??
Shiv-Shankar Bholenath is not remembered in the path of Bhakti as the God of Gita because that position is usurped by the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) for most part of the Confluence Age. But it is not true that everyone on the path of Bhakti believes Krishna to be God of Gita. There are many scholars on the path of Bhakti who believe that Rudra or Shankar also is the God of Gita.

And as regards the Murlis, there are hundreds of them which say that the child Krishna's name has been inserted in the Gita instead of the Father's name. And the Father is not just incorporeal. He is incorporeal within the corporeal, i.e. Shiv through Shankar.

vrkrao
Posts: 69
Joined: 04 Aug 2013
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To seek the answers and understand the true knowledge behind conflicting Murli points and baba's clarification

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by vrkrao » 20 Aug 2015

shivsena wrote:so imo, Maateshwari-Mama will be revealed as yatharth roop (embodiment) of GOD Shiva
arjun wrote:Through whom?? This is the one question that you have never answered
Is this answered ? If yes, can someone give me the link

User avatar
shivsena
ex-PBK
Posts: 4330
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To find out the absolute Truth.
Location: Mumbai
Contact:

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by shivsena » 21 Aug 2015

vrkrao wrote: shivsena wrote: imo, Maateshwari-Mama will be revealed as yatharth roop (embodiment) of GOD Shiva

arjun wrote:Through whom?? This is the one question that you have never answered
Is this answered ? If yes, can someone give me the link
Rao Bhai.... If God-ShivBaba is to be seen through a physical body with physical eyes, then what is the need for shiv to say :”Deh sahit deh ke sab sambandh ko bhul jaao”....and there should be no Gyan of ‘Gyan ka teesra netra’... so those who want to see ShivBaba with their physical eyes are deh-abhimani asuri-sampradaya(always looking for a physical body-Virendra Dev Dixit) and those who see Farishta-Mama-ShivBaba with the third eye of knowledge are dehi-abhimani ishwariya-sampradaya. ....that is why it is said in Murlis: “mere yatharth roop ko koto mei koi hi (teesre netra se) pehchanegaa.”

Also in Bhakti-marg. Lord Krishna said to arjuna on the battlefield:’ Arjuna, you cannot see my real viraat form with your physical eyes...you can see my viraat-roop only with divya-dhristi’ ....so in the end when Madhuban will become a sheesh-mahal, everyone will see GOD as per his beliefs (“Jaisi dhristi, vaise prabhu darshan'..) ....those who believe that Mama is ShivBaba personified will see Viraat-roop of Mama with divya-dhristi(third eye) and Ravan-sampradaya-PBKs who believe in dehdhari-Virendra Dev Dixit, will see Ravan-Virendra Dev Dixit as God with their physical eyes. ( Mu: ‘Ravan deh-abhimani banata.’)....so there is no question through which body God will be revealed.

shiva
Posts: 30
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to know the Godly knowledge

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by shiva » 03 Sep 2015

Yes, it is definitely possible to improve relations.
But PBK students are very ,very arrogant in discussions, whereas BK-students are soft. But the rules of PBKIVV are very strict; if any PBK comes to bk centre they will not be allowed// and Virendra Dev Dixit also got angry on In-charges of BKs institution.

pl see the link below and u will understand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAbWfJsHcdA

All BKs who are going regularly to Murli class are very, very soft// can adjust with anybody, whereas PBKs cannot adjust with BKs. PBKs advise the newcomers to cut-off first with bk centres and then come to aivv//

thx

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by sita » 03 Sep 2015

Yes, it is definitely possible to improve relations.
But PBK students are very ,very arrogant in discussions, whereas BK-students are soft. But the rules of PBKIVV are very strict; if any PBK comes to BK centre they will not be allowed// and Veerendra Dev Dixit also got angry on In-charges of BKs institution.

pl see the link below and u will understand:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAbWfJsHcdA

All BKs who are going regularly to Murli class are very, very soft// can adjust with anybody, whereas PBKs cannot adjust with BKs. PBKs advise the newcomers to cut-off first with BK centres and then come to aivv//

thx
I don't agree with your trying to put the blame exclusively on the PBKs. BKs may be soft on the outside, because Baba has thought them to be so, but do they consider the PBKs as brothers? Of course, it is wrong that PBKs are not allowed. It is the BKs who had started this. Had the PBKs been left in peace, I am sure they would just sit silently and peacefully. Even if they would like to discuss some points, in the way they see them, what is wrong with it. Let the BKs not agree with these points. Why should this become a reason to throw people away. Yes, as soon as they come to know you have listened to the knowledge from the Shankar party, they are being thrown away.

No PBK newcomer is advised to first cut-off with BK centers and then come to AIVV. This is a lie. It is not the PBKs who cannot adjust. BKs cannot bear it that some ordinary sisters and mothers can teach them. This is because they are arrogant. Even if you don't accept what the other person tries to tell, still you can allow him to say what he likes to say and still remain friends. It has always been the PBKs, who stretch a friendly hand, and have tried to come together on good terms. BKs have thrown so many abuses. Just look at this forum. Who is abused here more - the BKs or the PBKs? And if it was left to BKs, they would just like to cut all connection, hide, forbid the PBKs. It is below their dignity to go to the PBKs for any reason. How could they leave their position? How could the pure ones go to the impure ones? Just see the Admin here. Daily we receive the dose of the lesson about the righteous children versus the unrighteous children.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3245
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by mbbhat » 04 Sep 2015

I don't agree with your trying to put the blame exclusively on the PBKs. BKs may be soft on the outside, because Baba has thought them to be so, but do they consider the PBKs as Brothers?
Why not? Forget all physical personalities and dedicate ONLY to the bodiless Father. Then there is absolutely no problem. No need of even the titles of BK, PBK, etc., or no need of even for Murlis/gyaan. Just consider yourself as a bodiless soul and love the bodiless Father. Are PBKs ready? (at least a considerable percentage of BKs would be ready).

Or if you like to follow Murli points, then take all of them, not just isolated ones. Are PBKs ready?
Of course, it is wrong that PBKs are not allowed. It is the BKs who had started this. Had the PBKs been left in peace, I am sure they would just sit silently and peacefully.
They will NOT listen peacefully. They will just question ENDLESSLY by taking isolated Murli points and TWISTING them COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTEXT with the original Murli. Is it not Mr Dixit who had started first questioning in this wrong manner?

The sole purpose of PBKs is just to misguide BKs by showing isolated and misinterpreted Murli points, and some in which DELIBERATE errors are introduced by AIVV. Who will allow a thief to sit in his house? May be a thief would be LOOKING LIKE sitting in peace, but he will be always trying to get an opportunity, is it not?
It is not the PBKs who cannot adjust.
What is the adjustment that PBKs are capable of doing with BKs? When they are always trying to mis-interpret Murli points and do one-sided arguments?
Even if you don't accept what the other person tries to tell, still you can allow him to say what he likes to say and still remain friends. It has always been the PBKs, who stretch a friendly hand, and have tried to come together on good terms.
Again- what good terms? First misguiding, then making his intellect INVERTED,..Still arguing in the same way. You call this as 'good terms'?

We can see proof on this forum. So many countless faults and errors have been committed by PBKs. When foundation/knowledge(soul or intellect) is made corrupted, and main agenda of PBKs is being this (may be majority of them are not really aware of their mistakes, as their intellect could be locked) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... raj#p12552).

And- a senior PBk like Arjun, many times (and FB was a best friend in supporting this) is highly interested to discuss issues like - eg- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2622&p=50030#p49972 . When Baba clearly says- churn knowledge, see Father, follow Father, why should we see 'brothers' - and even more than that why should we be concerned about what lowkik people are doing - and do 'parchintan'? You can see arjun has highly involved himself in criticizing many BKs on this forum EXTENSIVELY. And, you call this as 'good terms'?

But, I have absolutely no problems as everything is drama. It is one's free will to express their views. So, what Arjun soul has given, is like some news also, would be of interesting for some members. So, It is OK. But, as a 'gyaani tu atma', one should be interested to discuss just 'Gyan' and about chariots or 'maat-pita'.
Just look at this forum. Who is abused here more - the BKs or the PBKs?
If you see blogs and websites of PBKs, you will understand better who is abusing. Does website of BKs abuse PBKs? The present admin is a new one. But, till now both BKs as well as PBKs were abused. Shivsena had banned mbbhat(BK), as well as andrey(PBK) before and mbbhat had been abused lots of time in the ex Bk forum also, when this forum was part of it.
Just see the Admin here. Daily we receive the dose of the lesson about the righteous children versus the unrighteous children.
The present admin is a new one. And, he is showing lots of proof for his writings. Just yesterday and today, you could not understand simplest meanings in the Murli points and were asking silly questions.

So- if you see impartially, PBKs have done much more mistakes than BKs even on the forum.

BTW, Baba has said due to karmic account within braahmin family, there are conflicts - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... cts#p13165
So- it cannot end easily. And, as per drama there is benefit, as it is going to clear karmic accounts between them. So, let us take it in this spirit and move on.

The one who has no complaints will finally win. The one who becomes capable of accepting the other in sakshi stage and guiding the other with good wishes and knowledge will win.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by sita » 04 Sep 2015

If you expect that i don't make mistakes you will be disappointed.

At present I just think BKs and PBKs are different. Churning will happen when we bring different points. But I think whatever is churned should be available to everyone.

shiva
Posts: 30
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: to know the Godly knowledge

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by shiva » 08 Sep 2015

sita wrote: I don't agree with your trying to put the blame exclusively on the PBKs. BKs may be soft on the outside, because Baba has thought them to be so, but do they consider the PBKs as Brothers? Of course, it is wrong that PBKs are not allowed. It is the BKs who had started this. Had the PBKs been left in peace, I am sure they would just sit silently and peacefully. Even if they would like to discuss some points, in the way they see them, what is wrong with it. Let the BKs not agree with these points. Why should this become a reason to throw people away. Yes, as soon as they come to know you have listened to The Knowledge from the Shankar party, they are being thrown away.

No PBK newcomer is advised to first cut-off with BK centers and then come to AIVV. This is a lie. It is not the PBKs who cannot adjust. BKs cannot bear it that some ordinary Sisters and mothers can teach them. This is because they are arrogant. Even if you don't accept what the other person tries to tell, still you can allow him to say what he likes to say and still remain friends. It has always been the PBKs, who stretch a friendly hand, and have tried to come together on good terms. BKs have thrown so many abuses. Just look at this forum. Who is abused here more - the BKs or the PBKs? And if it was left to BKs, they would just like to cut all connection, hide, forbid the PBKs. It is below their dignity to go to the PBKs for any reason. How could they leave their position? How could the pure ones go to the impure ones? Just see the Admin here. Daily we receive the dose of the lesson about the righteous children versus the unrighteous children.
Before writing some thing of above nature on this forum, please see the video indicated earlier, wherein a PBK/AIVV student by name of PBK Chari has badly commented on the new PBKs; please see the video link first and then comment// how was a student PBK encouraged by AIVV/Virendra Dev Dixit to 'rage' against or argue with other students who asked their own relevant questions???

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Is it possible to improve relations of BKs, PBKs and oth

Post by sita » 08 Sep 2015

Of course, I have seen the video before posting. That is why you posted it, so that we see it.

It is true that BKs are given a training how to manage the PBKs. This additionally aggravates the situation. Some BKs have never even heard of the PBKs, but some are being fed manipulative information, for the sake of 'protecting' them.They are forbidden to associate with the PBKs.

There is also a difference in the way a PBK will do his propaganda among the BKs, and the way a BK does his propaganda among the PBKs. Firstly, the PBKs are advised not to insist if someone does not like to listen. It is a different matter if all abide by this. I think mostly they do. Then if someone does not like to listen shill we can do service with good vibrations, etc. If someone does not wake up through knowledge, he wakes up through love or some other way. They are not advised to argue or quarrel. If some arguments are seen here on the forum it is because people themselves desire answers. PBKs address politely even the obvious abuses.

So emphasis is also being given to our behavior, that it should be checked, and we give a message through this too. But there is a difference in the motivation. When PBKs go to BKs, it is not that they are after them only. It is only because this has been their society recently (in case the PBK comes from the BKs and not straight). BKs are also aware of the points from the Murli. So the PBKs go there in their enthusiasm to share a message. They are not after destroying whatever someone else has created. They are not thieves. Only those will think in terms as thieves who see people as property. People are free, they are not property of the BK center. Everyone can go and do whatever he likes and listen and accept matters he finds appropriate. But under the name of your own safety, you are being treated like a small child, that you cannot yourself discern yourself what is good and bad, because it has already been discerned for you.

Then PBKs are projected as thieves, impure people, people who create disturbance, etc., so better avoid them. The poor people avoid them out of ignorance or under the threat of being chucked away. They are being forewarned. You are given a clear message to choose wisely. Then when they decide you have fallen prey to the predators, a message is being sent to all of your contacts that beware with this person, creating an atmosphere of mistrust and fear among people and breaking connection.

So if the PBKs go to BK it is to give a message in the spirit of goodwill. Yes, there may be cases where people are arrogant or see in this new knowledge a good opportunity to project their high status, etc., but these are always there everywhere. Then the anti PBK campaign sometimes serve as a uniting factor. But if a BK goes to the PBK, what is it that he aims? Hardly will there be the case to persuade people to come back. No one will follow the Murlis and Vanis, to not turn their face away from any soul, to write to them that you used to climb the Ladder to heaven and you fell, what happened, come again. If they had faith in the knowledge they would do this. But you don't see that. People are labeled, called outcast, etc., and if a BK would go to PBK he would just make it a provocation. Many like that PBKs are forbidden and shut down and destroyed, that their falsehood is exposed, that they disappear, that their confidence is proved baseless. So it is like trying to destroy the work of others. Left to themselves PBKs are just silently and peacefully following their own path. They are doing service to anyone including BKs and that within the lines of the code of conduct, even on the cost of being maltreated, but not complaining or taking the wrong path themselves.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests