Problems with Alcohol, Over-eating, Drugs after leaving Gyan

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jannisder
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Post by jannisder » 28 Jul 2007

Thanks joel. Now i know what to do!!!

Make i nice "pure" home made meal for me and a apple for him!! On forehand, i know he can not resist my (lokik) made meal and he will eat it ... wah Baba, his fortune, wah!!! Why make your children weak. Give your children a break while they still have to serve the world and provide for themselves, to make a living still in this world. Do not expect them to be dead because they are not ...! What kind of Father are you???

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joel
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Post by joel » 28 Jul 2007

jannisder wrote:Why make your children weak. Give your children a break while they still have to serve the world and provide for themselves, to make a living still in this world, do not expect them to be dead because they are not....! What kind of Father are you???
Good to see you around, Jan.

I've never known the Indian BK sisters to deny themselves a meal. For many cooking and eating is their most sacred ritual.

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jannisder
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Post by jannisder » 28 Jul 2007

Well, i have to work some days, then he cooks for me ... with all drishti and whatever included but that is OK, i still live!!

When i cook ... well, i am pure since i am in love with a BK that is celibate hahahahah, so he can eat my cooked food. It is a Western thing, not an Eastern. But a stupid thing indoctrinated from the Murli.

The only way i can help this man is to get a hold of the Murli batch every week but no one seems to understand?? So send me the Murli!!!!!! It seems that i have to agenda my week to the Murli. That is ... how to get a hold of this beloved. What he is doing! What the Murli told him to do.

I am the only "outsider" in his live to have a change to get him out. With no help i am nothing!

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jannisder
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Post by jannisder » 29 Jul 2007

I got this all wrong!! You all DO understand!!!

Sorry!! I get so silly some times.

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zhuk
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Post by zhuk » 30 Jul 2007

paulkershaw wrote:Often I've heard that drugs and alcohol usage are forms of escapism. Great! However, overusage of food must surely fall into the same category, it feeds something missing within. And if one is not getting what one wants, one will want it more until satisfied. I understand that perhaps food to me, if I am not careful, is a replacement or an escapist form of UNCONSCIOUS unfed desire. Its called Greed. Or maybe Denial?
A bit of both, Paul? ;).

I had much experience with drugs before I came across the BKs ... significantly harder ones too. cannot say leaving prompted me to take any more - it was a relief to get out, in fact.

Escapism - yes.

But the withholding of food as well as overeating is also attempting to satisfy something missing inside, as with drugs. Been there also :P.

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Post by paulkershaw » 31 Jul 2007

Yeah, I'd agree that its more than just a bit of both ... if one places self-esteem and self-image on a line and look left and then right, its still the same line, eh? And if there's one thing one needs to maintain in the Bk lifestyle (deathstyle?) its one's self-esteem ... but then a master doesn't have to work on it do they? ( :? )

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mr green
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Post by mr green » 31 Jul 2007

I am too stoned to know if I have low self-esteem :lol: :lol:.

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Post by paulkershaw » 02 Aug 2007

Hey Mr Green :mrgreen: You'll be proud of me! I got totally stoned last night ...

Hot Stoned (massage) - it was awesome and left me with some great self esteem- chilled out and ready for more - work is a breeze today - I can really recommend this getting stoned stuff to everyone ...
Image

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bro neo
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Post by bro neo » 02 Aug 2007

This is serious stuff! Without hope, people in stress or pain seek release or as in my case, oblivion, preferably by a euphoric means. Sometimes even death is acceptable. That’s why they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I was addicted to many things before Gyan. A near death experience and 12 step programs along with absolute diligence kept me alive, I would say. Recently, proy enlightened me on some research about how 12 step groups are cult orientated. That got me thinking.

Anyways, any form of addiction or dependency, IMO, seems to be motivation orientated. There have been entire recovery modalities derived and formulated based on this theory. (Another very popular theory on addiction is that it is rooted in problems with self esteem.)

The unconscious and subconscious drives of the need for the mind and emotions to find peace, pleasure and remove pain will absolutely drive people to do what ever needs to be done, wither it be eat, drink or worse.

The only solution is a new hope and proof of its validity; an over powering motivation and priority then that embodied by the addiction in question. Reprogramming sufficiently and changing the hardware (by changing nero pathways and altering brain chemistry) and software (core beliefs, priorities, etc) of the cerebral cortex seems to solve the problem. This has also been called a spiritual experience or solution.

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Post by paulkershaw » 02 Aug 2007

bro neo wrote:This is serious stuff! Without hope, people in stress or pain seek release or as in my case, oblivion, preferably by a euphoric means. Sometimes even death is acceptable. That’s why they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The only solution is a new hope and proof of its validity

Neo, can we assume then that many members of the BKWSU have looked to the organisation for euphoric release of their current stress and/or pain? If so can we also then say that the BKWSU uses people's addictions (or need to release their inner pain ...) to obtain members and then keeps the pain cycle going within the 'system' to keep those same people under 'lock and key' for whatever reasons they do?

Your comments that "Sometimes even death is acceptable" is truly frightening and deep.

I'd perhaps agree that one solution is to try find new hope but I wouldn't know where to find the valid proof of this hope, your earlier posting about truth being in the eye of the beholder still rings true for me, and as long as no-one wants proof there cannot be truth. (hooray for this ex-BK Forum) ... there has to be something that connects the person with the experience and this cannot always be about seeing hard facts but something resonating on an softer more spiritual internal level.

It seems to me that many people are always looking for new hope ...?? And if they find that in a some other process (drugs, food, sex, a religion, or a cult, or a following etc) then good for them, but that must surely also be part of their journey which they're learning at that time?

Surely sooner or later their own realisations (truth?) must come out and they'll move onto their next process only to find that responsibilty ancd accountability may not be the same thing and have not been included in the previous parts of thier lives?

My experience at this time is that one needs to be responsible and accountable for one's own journey, including happiness and inner fulfillment, not that I am totally there yet myself I must add, but it grows within in tangible and wonderful ways.

I certainly don't need (for myself) hard scientific facts to prove that I am happy or unhappy ... I know ! But I'd also say that I do see that many people around me are not aware if they're happy or unhappy and are simply reacting to their emotions, just the same as they do not recognise that they may be carrying stress too.

I suppose that if were to ask someone using drugs or alcohol (whilst they were under the influence of such products ...) if they were happy; the answer would probably be a resounding yes, and if we asked them again when they did not have money to buy the drugs and they were not 'high' then we'd be answered in the negative? I don't know.

If I were to ask myself when I am overweight that same question, then I'd have to answer 'no' but then I'd also have to choose whether or not I am ready to anything about it. Perhaps using this thread to distinguish between the hardships of drug addiction to comparing it with food addiction is not fair though ... it may be two ends of the same line but with a different view at the extreme ends of those lines ... (?).

I feel that the question really is this: Is it truly possible to prove anything spiritual exists? because if we could prove it then no-one would be searching for the truth, eh?

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bro neo
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Post by bro neo » 06 Aug 2007

paulkershaw wrote:Neo, can we assume then that many members of the BKWSU have looked to the organisation for euphoric release of their current stress and/or pain? If so can we also then say that the BKWSU uses people's addictions (or need to release their inner pain ...) to obtain members and then keeps the pain cycle going within the 'system' to keep those same people under 'lock and key' for whatever reasons they do?
I believe we can paulkershaw.

There are many ways for people to find release from negativity and be immersed in preferable states. Some use chocolate and shopping, others use cocaine and self mutilation. All of these are proverbial travel plans for people to reach psychological destinations on the multidimensional life map we have recorded in our brains. Because everyone's map is unique (albeit similar, especially within social groups), we all have different travel plans to preferable states. When our maps have travel plans that are extremely costly to us, we have to find another way to get to our desired destination. A major obstacle to change is the human brain is able to trick itself into believing costs are a lot less then they really are, if the reward is great enough. Have you ever been shocked when you saw your credit card statement at the end of the month? De-nial is not just a river in Egypt.

Raja Yoga, like many spiritual philosophies, offers people not only new or different travel plans to destinations such as peace, love, security, self respect, and bliss, Raja Yoga offers people a whole new map of life. A map which is so fantastic to the believer, that they are transformed dramatically by its application. This is called to die a living death, because our entire map of life is changed. This is great, if we don’t question what is true or not and right or wrong.

For me, as I started to question problems with my version of Raja Yoga’s life map and certain geographic aspects of it, I looked for solutions from outside sources. A lot of my map was very inconveniently changed again. Since, I have constantly tried to stay open to new information that can alter my map in a self empowering way, this constant change in my world view as I acquire new info is how I see my mind and beliefs as perhaps going through a process of evolution, natural selection, or survival of the fittest. It’s also a real pain in the arss.

But maps of what’s real is just that, a map. What is real, is real and will always be real but our interpretation of it will very. The reality of spirituality, I believe, has to be a very gnostic experience. We have to really feel with all our senses what is spirit. Spirituality as a road map may be just a creation of human minds to establish and manage a level of discipline over society, but the experience of our selves is real.

When I look inside and reflect on being able to reflect, or when I stop thinking and just feel what it feels like to be alive, the silent humming experience, for me this is the miracle that we are and a valid reason to search for higher empirical truths.

Here's a model of addiction I have been running around in my head. When a person is stressed enough, their emotional brain can actually crash their cerebral cortex and take over, causing the person to black out or go into a trance state. When people have a strongly engraved habit in their cerebral maps for anastalgic euphoria the emotional brain probably has the intelligence to fire only that neuro pathway like there is no tomorrow in an self preservation attempt to acquire equilibrium and homeostasis in the body-mind.

The results are obsessions and the increasing inability to think of anything other then the dependency. Of course, studies have shown with over use, people’s neuro biology gets accustomed to the foreign chemicals and the person needs the chemical to feel normal or to keep from hurting. The stress perpetuates this cycle.

The solution depends on the severity of the addiction but would involve allowing the body to return to its normal chemistry and also introduce new nero pathways (beliefs, attitudes, behaviors, etc). In extreme cases the person might need a whole new map.

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