What's wrong with Bhakti?

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mr green
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What's wrong with Bhakti?

Post by mr green » 02 Aug 2007

Hang on, so we thought it was the truth ... it wasn't.

Why do we need the ego trip that what we're doing is the truth but what everyone else is doing is just blind faith????

Is nott it spiritually mature to accept that no one knows anymore than anyone else???

Is not it all just an expression of the self, like wearing different clothes?

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Post by zhuk » 03 Aug 2007

Yes, its that 'elite' label that you can feel oh-so-superior about.

When I first joined the BKs it was admitted to me when I questioned them on it that, yes it did seem rather elitist to consider yourself above all other deluded humans, but that, "we are the only ones who really know the truth" and there must inevitably be an "elite" :roll:.

I agree with the Buddhists here mr g ... that certain things are in fact "un-knowable" by human beings. So what point is there in "churning" on things are you cannot ever really know are true ... or not. Utterly pointless, IMO.

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Post by mr green » 03 Aug 2007

Thank you for replying.

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Post by arjun » 03 Aug 2007

Om Shanti. Although Murlis say that those doing Bhakti are lower than those who have realized God and are following the Godly knowledge, but we should never see those who are doing Bhakti as inferiors, because we are also effort makers. We are not yet perfect. There may be many BKs or PBKs or ex-PBKs, whose dharana/behaviour may be worse than those who are doing Bhakti. So, until we have gained victory over vices, how can we say the devotees (bhakt) are inferior to us?

Personally speaking, I have met many people doing Bhakti (or in fact following other religions) who are better than myself or many BKs and PBKs as far as their behaviour is concerned. Even ShivBaba accepts this fact in the Murlis (narrated through both Brahma Baba and Baba Virendra Dev Dixit), but the only difference is that they are not soul conscious and have not realized God's corporeal role.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by andrey » 04 Aug 2007

Bhakti gives sorrow, whilst knowlegde gives happiness. Bhakti is like dark night of ignorance where there is no certainty of anything, but only superstition, Bhakti is full of fear. To have knowledge maybe is not only to receive information, but to feel this knowledge is true, to have the certainty. It is like the day when one can see things. In the night they are still there, but because there is no light we don't see.

That's why we wonder in search and are desperate, because light does not come out of our own eyes to see things. Knowledge won't come in our own mind to realise. Light will come from external source, the sun (of knoweldge). I will know when i come to know, when i learn. Then if still in the light of the day, people prefer keeping eyes closed, denying to see, and bumping onto objects whilst walking, then in this situation they will seem strange to others. Still they may cry that there is no light and blame the sun that why did it not rise.

The way to escape the competitive nature of human of who knows better and who is better is to put things on common ground. If there are many human beings in the world and all of them show their power and opinion then they clash in some point. There may be no way to know everything, and there is no need, but it is different than to know that there is, it exists an answer, there is some reality that can be known and maybe one day i will come to know. Rest is like lazyness. Nothing can be know, thats it. OK finished. It is like lack of curiosity, lack of conviction that when i come to know, some supersensial pleasure comes out of it.

We don't need know every detail, but some basic principles that will put in order our world, some keys that will lock many doors, such kind of knowldge that will help us realise things on our own, churn on our own, some recipe and painkiller that can work in all cases for all diseases.

Like it is said in the Gita that you don't know your own births i come to tell you about them. Now forget whatever you have studied and listen to me only and i guaratnee...you know, to put your trust in something that can reward your trust. We don't desire reward from the stone idol, because he may give the best stones. That is' why if nature of god is soul then he gives benefit to the soul. Then he does not say each ones own births and role, but narrates some principles, practices, hints how to find out for ourselves, if we like to, but why not, what is more important to know than my own history, past, present and future.

It is said in the beginning even Bhakti is satopradhan and gives happiness. It is Bhakti of only one. Then when Bhakti disintegrates and becomes worship of many - clash may be coming as to which Bhakti is the best, why Bhakti differ and mind starts wondering to this and to that. Then also knowledge is initially satorpadhan and passes through stages.

Search and wondering and questions in the mind can stop when one realises who is the highest on high, this one that there can be no one higher than him with such conviction that no one can come and shake this position and take his seat in my mind. It is like to reach some point, some final destination. Then also if we are put on common ground of comparison by only one criterium that we are all children. we are all creation, there is one creator, then we can be saved from showing off our own opinion.

Search and clash can stop when we realise our own selves, position and seat in this drama. There is now clash because many are still fighting to claim the No. 1 position. no one likes to accept himself lower. If there is the possibility to know what is my part, without jealousy then one can play it well. Like in the race, after the finals there is some peace. It is clear who became No 1, no 2. Rest should accept defeat. But is is also a fair play that there is no reason to complain. He is better than me is not to bring about feeling of inferiority. It is a variety play and no one can play my part better than me. Ask a king to work carpentry he won't do. Everyone will reach their full potential. Maybe it is some sense that for myself i can find the answers that i need answered, i'll find some peace of mind with myself. I'll find my place that i always had, that i now search for it, where i feel most comfortable.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Aug 2007

andrey wrote:Bhakti is full of fear.
Can you tell me what fear Taoism is full of?

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Post by andrey » 04 Aug 2007

No

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Post by mr green » 04 Aug 2007

And can you tell me why you feel what your doing is not Bhakti?

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Post by andrey » 04 Aug 2007

Can be Bhakti

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Parrots

Post by alladin » 04 Aug 2007

So, we got all the knowledge in essence, on this sat. class from teacher Andrey.
Easy as that:i t's all about learning lessons by heart and repeating like parrots. If we all turned into colourful parrots, what a beautiful world it would be! Thank God I get some food for thought for the week-end from other posters, to stimulate my thinking!

Truly, in so called "Gyan", there are no superstitions? Literally it means, "something that sits on top" - which I actually sometimes don't mind, in the right atmosphere + circumstances! - a creed without foundation. No blind faith?

Accepting Gyan is based on that; forget your doubts, do not try to prove anything, have faith that you are a soul, that God himself is speaking through this Chariot, that there is justice in the world, ultimately everything happens for a reason according to Karma, Destruction will come in X numder of years (modifiable!), that Golden Age will come and you have been a princess ... Sure, it may all resonate inside, but other than that there's no proof from metaphysics and fantasies, so we are in the same realm of superstitions.

And since the system and purpose of a senior Parrot is that the audience should learn the lesson by heart and repeat it exactly. Passing on valuable info to others. So we take them from night into the light.

Let me just ask a little question, coming from my darkness of ignorance; don't BKs promote "worship of many" SS, hi ranks, starting from Brahma Baba - which I love dearly, my favourite spook - and his posters? From day 1, when we come in Gyan, we are told we should follow, conform, respect, not question and be in awe of Seniors. Just like idols on pedestals. So, what do you call that? Expansion of the Tree?

Love and respect.

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Post by andrey » 04 Aug 2007

That's why worship of one is better than worship of many and learning knowledge form one is better than learning knowledge from many.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Aug 2007

andrey wrote:No
Can you tell me what fear Sikhism is full of? You said Bhakti is full of fear.

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Post by andrey » 04 Aug 2007

Different religions is different to Bhakti. In every religion there is knowledge at first. Every religion is at first satopradhan. Then in all religions Bhakti comes.

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Post by mr green » 04 Aug 2007

I cannot see this at all, you're mixing two different things here.

Your obviously thinking along the lines of The Tree, where all religions eventually fall into dualism and become tamo ... bit it is Bhakti from the onset, it doesn't become it ... If it does then what was it to start with?

You have replaced the word tamopradhan with Bhakti.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Aug 2007

andrey wrote:Different religions is different to Bhakti. In every religion there is knowledge at first. Every religion is at first satopradhan. Then in all religions Bhakti comes.
So can you answer or not? You said, "Bhakti is full of fear". That is a non-answer.

I do not expect you to answer. I just hope one day you stop making broad, sweeping melodramatic statements that can be substantiated even from the miniscule knowledge of the world I have.

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