What's wrong with Bhakti?

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andrey
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Post by andrey » 05 Aug 2007

In the Murli it is said that Bhakti starts from Copper Age. It starts from those of the deity religion. IN Golden Age and Silver Age they were worship worthy and then they begin worshipping. It is said actually you worship your own selves (from the past) Those images are your images. So knowledge is when people embody the image, and Bhakti is when they worship it. It is also said that Father teaches knowledge, human gurus teach Bhakti.

In the beginning there was a living Chariot of the Supreme Soul, later it becomes a photograph, then later Bhakti disintegrates to many Dadis, senior sisters etc. They start to teach.

In the beginning of Copper Age Bhakti is of one shivling. This image should have a practical embodiment. The one in whom he enters.

Same is in every religion. When Christ used to be in corporeal, people were listening to him, when he goes people narrate stories about him an other people start wioshipping even these story-tellers (saints).

It is said that fear itself belongs to the path of Bhakti. If we know the soul, the Supreme Soul the cycle, where is the need to fear. Contrary to this human beings say things to scare you like you won't go to Golden Age if you don't do this, or you won't become a king, they do to make you dependant, whilst he makes us independent.

Bhakti we will be doing till we become manamanabhav, because we don't know his nature. We have to merge our thoughts in his mind, to harmonize, but we have ideas about him thought by others.

It is said in the Murli that you have spent all your money on the path of Bhakti and have become poor. Bhakti is loss of time, money and energy with no or temporary achievement.

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yudhishtira
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Post by yudhishtira » 08 Aug 2007

It is possible to have a bk life which is TOTALLY Bhakti; I would say 90% of Brahmins are practicing this ... it has all the trappings of and the attitude of Bhakti, i.e. fear, following other souls rather than a direct connection with God, manipulation and this, lastly and most important,

carrying out a lifestyle believing that it is the LIFESTYLE that makes you spiritual and not understanding that you yourself are innately beautiful and wonderful and so is every other soul; and so therefore developing all the smelly sanskars of superiority, comparison, fear, revenge, manipulation that we love so much about conventional Brahmin life

It was only when i started to twig to this, very unconsciously for a long time, and consciously only recently, that I realised it was possible to live an non-Bhakti brahmin life in freedom and happiness.

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john
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Post by john » 08 Aug 2007

Each branch of the Yagya is following it's own line of Bhakti based on the leaders (Chariots, wannabe Shivas) Sanskars.

Dada Lekhraj as Krishna/Brahma, Virendra Dev Dixit as Ram/Shankar, others as various Vishnus. How much of ShivBaba is actually getting through I don't know.

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Aug 2007

yudhishtira wrote:It was only when I started to twig to this, very unconsciously for a long time, and consciously only recently, that I realised it was possible to live an non-Bhakti Brahmin life in freedom and happiness.
Wow ... gives me shivers and almost brings tears to my eyes with the beauty of such a personal statement.

Please allow me to theorise, is Bhakti done well is better than "Gyan" done badly?

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alladin
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Post by alladin » 08 Aug 2007

Hi, Yudhishtra! Sounds good to me! We should all give each other a collective, mutual blessing to be able to do that. However, it seems that for some ex-BKs, the level or rejection and distance they want to put between themselves and anything Bk, is greater than that and implies refusal to believe in God or karma or anything at all.

Anyway, everyone has their comfort zones. I still like to believe in the meaningfulness of some teachings and in the existence of a benevolent Great Spirit, but I am also open to new realizations. It's a dynamic phase. The job is not done. As Baba says, students until the last day!! :wink:

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 08 Aug 2007

Please allow me to theorise, is Bhakti done well is better than "Gyan" done badly?
Bhakti done well is better than 'Gyan' done badly (my personal opinion).

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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abrahma kumar
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Gyan done badly? Surely not.

Post by abrahma kumar » 08 Aug 2007

arjun wrote:Bhakti done well is better than 'Gyan' done badly (my personal opinion).
Thank God Shiva there is no Murli point to support that view :evil:.

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Re: Gyan done badly? Surely not.

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Aug 2007

abrahma Kumar wrote:Thank God Shiva there is no Murli point to support that view :evil:.
Don't speak too soon ...

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yudhishtira
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Post by yudhishtira » 09 Aug 2007

Personally, I find witnessing Gyan done badly 100% worse than any Bhakti. I do not have problems with Bhakti. Everyone has to do their "thang" and there are lots of forms of Bhakti which are very subtle which even the atheists buy into. Whereas I guess I have a feeling for what pure Gyan should be and I am not detached enough for it not to hurt to see it being mangled. Its actually "disservice". Much more so than any bk going and getting married or having a beard (guess who I am referring to for their judgements in this direction ...) for people to see BKs representing God as being as judgemental and fear ridden as they are.
However, it seems that for some ex-BKs, the level or rejection and distance they want to put between themselves and anything BK, is greater than that and implies refusal to believe in God or karma or anything at all.

I understand that. I've gone through being totally ****** with the whole thing; God and especially Brahma, and I don't have a problem with that. I guess we are all linked by our collective experience and our desire to know "truth" whatever we see that as being.

p.s. Hi Alladin! I havent been anywhere physically; just doing some more internal "cooking" and being busy but thanks for the kind thoughts!

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Aug 2007

yudhishtira wrote:Its actually "disservice". Much more so than any BK going and getting married or having a beard (guess who I am referring to for their judgements in this direction ...) for people to see BKs representing God as being as judgemental and fear ridden as they are.
My sentiments exactly. It breaks my heart to see it. I cant get over how those BKs that go around squealing "defamation ... defamation", condescending towards others or manically re-writing the Yagya fail to see how their own actions are defamatory. I'd far rather be me that some school prefect.

I wonder how they feel when they sit in front of BapDada? Is it, "I did it for you ... I did it for you, Baba ... love me ... love me do ..." or is it and embarrassed "******* ... what did I do ... why did I do that ...".

One good objective truth is "everyone has a bumhole" ... lol ... I know how to work my way around the word censors!!! :D. Actually, and this is where it gets deep and spiritual, we would become pretty sick and die fast if we did not have a bumhole.

The trick of life is learning how and where to aim it and not dump on others because one day you might meet someone that is bigger than you who dumps it back. The problem we have with India is that they have instituted entire castes of people whose job is is to accept bumhole targetry, be dumped and tidy up other's *******.

I bow to good Bhakti ...

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 09 Aug 2007

abk wrote:Thank God Shiva there is no Murli point to support that view .
No. There is. I have read it long ago. If I find it I will quote. It may not be exactly in this form, but it may be somewhat like it is better to get married rather than blackening your face (with sex-lust) while treading the path of knowledge.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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fluffy bunny
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Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Aug 2007

arjun wrote:No. There is. I have read it long ago. If I find it I will quote. It may not be exactly in this form, but it may be somewhat like it is better to get married rather than blackening your face (with sex-lust) while treading the path of knowledge.
Told you so ... :wink:.

I can confirm both. But I think abek's point was really not so much about use of the Murlis but rather the misuse or overuse of them in place of rational thought or analysis. Which I also agree with. I must be in a very agreeable mood!

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mr green
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Post by mr green » 09 Aug 2007

Everyone seems either unable or unwilling to really answer the question I pose ... thanks anyway for replying.

What I am really asking is why or what makes you feel that Gyan is Gyan and not just another Bhakti mark (excuse my poor Hindi heh).

Why does everyone have to think they have the truth and no-one else does? All religions believe that theirs is the true path and that all other paths are acceptable but still wrong ... are we not just constantly tricked by our own ego?

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bro neo
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Post by bro neo » 12 Aug 2007

"Gyan" is Hindi for "enlightenment" or "spiritual knowledge", knowledge revealed by God. BKs talk about "Gyan" meaning the knowledge they have been taught and the wisdom they have gained from it.

Traditionally, Bhakti means devotion. Bhakti Yoga is Yoga with God from the heart or through devotion.

To BKs, Bhakti is a condescending word used to distinguish the Raja Yoga "path of knowledge", or Gyan, from the "path of ignorance", or religion.

BKs believe that they are not following a religious path but the only true path. Bhakti is searching for God, whilst they have knowledge or God. Bhakti is ignorance and separation, Raja Yoga is union with God. A BK accusing another BK, or other individual, of doing Bhakti is accusing them of acting out of superstition and ignorance. All other religions are Bhakti, only BK Raja Yoga is Knowledge. Only BKs have a relationship with God whilst all other seek it.

"There are no reality in visions on the path of Bhakti."

Blind Faith

Extracts from our own Encyclopedia which seem to imply the proof of Gyan is the same as the proof in Bhakti. The proof being the result, of belief and application of the approved scripture. So from an objective perspective the only real difference is the word of the BKs.

The BKs use the marketing strategy, quite successfully I might add, to lure people into the 7 day course with very neat little tidbits of facts and theories which are scattered amongst many, many different religions and spiritual paths and then slowly start introducing things like the cycle is 5000 years.

When the student asks how can you prove it? An average BK teacher would say, this is just what our teaching says, you’ll understand more at the end of the course. Then they hypnotize the students by making them stare at a dot on the wall, slow their brain waves dramatically to induce a very suggestible state and then proceed to implant the BK dogmas.

By the end of the course the student is too hypnotized to question the facts of the BKs. I remember thinking "Maybe these people are trying to mass hypnotize the world with this mediation", the first 30 seconds of the first time I did the Raja Yoga meditation during my 7 Day Course. Since that time I just sorta became a BK. Years passed. Curious don't you think?

In regards to what's wrong with Bhakti? I think Bhakti is fine, and seems to have been a essential part in the evolution of humanity’s consciousness. Regrettably it has in mine. On the other hand it can also be seen as the cause of all the problems in the world today.

Bhakti separates people because it makes people think, "My tribe is better then that tribe, so we better just kill them if they get in our way." If it wasn’t for this, maybe we would all see each other as belonging to one tribe, equal humans, in an environment which demands co-operation for survival. Maybe.

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Post by alladin » 12 Aug 2007

Thank you, Neo!! Perhaps the story of awakening Kumbakarnas is a memorial of the Forum having an effect on zombies to regain wake, to robots regaining a free will!

Since thousands of years, people have been saying that their religion, Bhakti, tribe or culture was superior to that of anyone else. Nothing new. The new thing in BKs and maybe some New Age groups,is the tactic of denying a cult or religion to be such. No wonder Neo and others talk about "marketing!". That's the appropriate word! This makes them far superior to any other group or creed, out of the race, total outstanding, irresistable, like a red Ferrari. Especially if one gets hypnotized by a red dot!

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